DIM gives me wood and TMG takes it away. whats up???????????
- 02-14-2007, 11:38 AM
DIM gives me wood and TMG takes it away. whats up???????????
title says it all. i began taking DIM and was doing great. Not 100% but a serious improvement. then i add TMG and the morning wood is gone again. Keep trying a couple days and nothing. then i take the TMG away and the wood is back. why???
also just a side not, TMG makes my urine dark as hell and smelly as hell too. is that normal.
- 02-14-2007, 12:34 PM
The dark urine is natural when taking DIM. It actually means it's working. I am having the same issue as you except Dr. John has said that DIM should not be taken without TMG because the TMG works in conjunction with DIM to metabolise the bad estrogens and take them through the liver as waste. Take a look at my thread called DIM is making me feel worse and the same thread on Meso-RX for more insight. Also look at this site: Diindolylmethane DIM
02-14-2007, 04:21 PM
Proper way would to get a urine reading of good:bad ratio of estrogen and then another one 1 month later and see if there is a difference. Get a starting point and an end point. Reason people have bad reaction from DIM is because its workin HAHAHA and liver can not keep up with demand of estrogen detoxification why you go lympy on it.. Its not the fact that you are lower estrogen its the fact that the liver is not detoxify fast enough and getting backed up..Why sam-e or NAC might not be bad to add as alterantive pathways. Most people with estrogen problems have clogged liver and you need to open up the flood gates so you get get the crap out not put crap in and have it get backed up !!
02-14-2007, 05:44 PM
#2. I feel it is very important to have a handle on DIM, it is major part in our supplements
#3. People are taking DIM of all kind of brands and aside of quality issue I see issue of amount of DIM taken.
one pill of Indolplex have 0.25x120=30mg of DIM
PhytoPharmica Indolplex with DIM
one pill of Dual-Action from LEF have 14mg of DIM, and advice to take one pill per 160# body weight.
Dual-Action Cruciferous Vegetable Extract With Resveratrol & Cat's Claw, 60 Vegetarian Capsules
DIM (Diindolylmethane) have 75mg or 150 mg DIM and advice to take 2 pills daily.
That is 20x the LEF dose and Indoplex dose, since many people are taking half a pill of Indolplex.
In no place, (except posts of Dr John) I seen advice on use of TMG when DIM is taken.
Dr John uses still another brand of DIM, (Yesterday, 09:17 PM )(It also contains I3C, Dr Zeligs belittles value of I3C), but I cannot figure out the actual amount of DIM in those pills.
Quote:"I use Nick Delgado's Estroblock product. As some of you know, I served as his company's Medical Director for several years."
ULTIMATE MEDICAL RESEARCH, LLC
Estro-Block plus I3C
Indole-3-Carbinol (I3C) 50 mg DIM Complex 100 mg Blend of: Diindolylmethane Vitamin E as d-alpha tocepherol succinate Phosphatidylcholine Glucosamine RX Proprietary Time-Released Blend 850 mg Glucosamine TimeOsamine (as Glucosamine Sulfate 2KCL)
But on the order page is slightly different description
Estroblock with I3C 60 count
Estroblock 60 ct has 100mg DIM with I3C 50mg for reducing fat building estrogens and restoring the good estrogens. Estroblock can be taken every night, to correct estrogens to testosterone and improve the lean ratio to muscle.
What and how much to use? How to regulate the dose?
If it influences (however indirectly) E2 as we think it does, it is quite sensitive issue.
02-14-2007, 06:00 PM
02-14-2007, 06:21 PM
02-15-2007, 12:07 PM
02-15-2007, 12:43 PM
02-15-2007, 12:45 PM
02-15-2007, 01:01 PM
ACtually before ones start detoxying the liver the colon and kidneys need to be in proper working order first because when i liver starts to dump you do not want it backing the sludge up at all
YOu have to have a balanced liver meaning the sulfation pathway and also the b 12/ folate pathway and TMG are working properly. By taking too much of one thing can take away from the other pathways. So to balance it nicely
600 mgs NAC
50 MGS p5p
500 mgs TMG BID
800 -2000 mcg folnic acid
800-5000 mcg methylcobaline
Reason I suggest the methlyated forms of folic acid and b-12 is because people with homronal problems tend to have problem with methylation problems and can not convert to active forms of b-12 / folate in the central nervous sytem. If b-12/folate are not converted to active form them you will have a CNS deficiency of these vitamins but not in other areas of the body. IT is estimated over 50% of the population lack the ability to convert to these forms and make sense that there are several factors that can prevent this from happening and missing one nutrient (takes 10-12 nutrients for this to occur) will not let it happen at the proper rate and therefore can result in detrimental health issues.
Milk thistle is good but too much of it can cause ferritin levels to drop as well as manganese too. People need to know the interactions of specific herbs and what they are used for. Funny that milk thistle is actually used in treatment of excessive iron in the blood/ferritin
02-17-2007, 11:17 PM
02-18-2007, 12:15 AM
02-19-2007, 10:53 AM
02-19-2007, 11:40 AM
TMG is used mainly to lower homocysteine.
Check your blood homocysteine level, use TMG or not per your blood test.
Since good doctor recomends (I think) use of TMG with DIM I am assuming that DIM raises homocysteine.
page 277 Nutrients to lower Homocysteine, TMG, Vit B6 or PSP, Vit B12, Folic acid
Homocysteine (male) 6.3-15 umol/L
LEF recomended Under 7.0 umol/L
Homocysteine as a Risk Factor for Disease
Elevated homocysteine levels have now been correlated with a wide array of illnesses, including heart disease, stroke, osteoporosis, depression, schizophrenia, macular degeneration, cervical cancer, and birth defects.
Fortunately, those seeking to safeguard their health and longevity can readily modulate elevated homocysteine levels using nutritional therapies such as vitamins B6 and B12, folic acid, and trimethylglycine.85 These important nutritional strategies may help you avert the wide array of diseases that have been found to accompany excessive levels of homocysteine
02-19-2007, 04:59 PM
02-19-2007, 07:02 PM
well my homocystenine levels was 4.1 which is too low !!
Which can be caused by too much estrogen or not enough that is the 64 million dollar question I am wiating to have answered as soon as my lab tests come back
My problem lies in estrogen/copper/adrenal imbalance hopefully tommorrow results will be in been 5 months patiently waiting for many un answered questions
I beleive if you use folonic acid and methy b-12 then TMG may not even be needed. I am not going to mess around with anything till I get my blood work back and consult with Dr john..
But a while ago i was taking dim and tmg, but also folinic acid and methy b-12 and DIM worked for a few days and then it stopped. May be I was fulshing out the estrogen too fast possible..
02-20-2007, 08:10 PM
i think i am gonna stop the tmg. if i was doing better without it. i think i better listen to what my body is saying. after all i am kind of going into this blind as far as blood work goes because my doctor is incompotent. and so is every other doctor i try to talk to.
i cant wait to find one, i am gonna contact lef and ask them to recommend and anti aging doctor in my area.
02-21-2007, 07:51 PM
DIm also prevents DHT from binding the the AR and there for causing low DHT which woould explain the lack of erections from lack of dht and estrogen BOTH !!
Using dietary supplements that will balance hormonal levels can also be effective. Any treatment that lowers male hormone levels will lead to a drop in PSA blood levels. Complete Prostate Nutrition contains materials that may reduce the risk of prostate cancer and control BPH symptoms. Tests have shown that DIM inhibits the actions of dihydrotestosterone (DHT), the primary androgen involved in prostate cancer. DHT stimulates the expression of Prostate Specific Antigen (PSA), which acts as a growth factor for prostate cancer. When androgen-dependent cells were treated with DIM, the researchers found a drop in the level of PSA.
I think its more so involved with DHT the lack of wood more then estrogen !!
Comparisons of the molecular conformation of DIM show that it is similar to Casodex, a synthetic anti-androgen on the market. "DIM works by binding to the same receptor that DHT uses, so it's essentially blocking the androgen from triggering the growth of the cancer cells," said Hien Le, lead author of the study and a former graduate student in Bjeldanes' lab.
"DIM is chemically different than Casodex, but it behaves similarly in how it blocks the effects of androgen," said Le, who received her PhD in molecular and biochemical nutrition in 2002.
This would explain why I was taking DIM months back that my hair on my space suddenly stopped growing for 2 weeks at a time !!
Testosterone, Sexuality, and Erectile Function in Aging Men -- Mitchell Harman 24 (6 Supplement): 42 -- Journal of Andrology
The Effects of Transdermal Dihydrotestosterone in the Aging Male: A Prospective, Randomized, Double Blind Study -- Kunelius et al. 87 (4): 1467 -- Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism
08-06-2009, 02:10 PM
Im taking methylphenidate too,and im going to take Dim an TMG:
WHY DO YOU THING TMG AND CONCERTA DONT MIX WELL??
because tmg eliminates concerta too soon from the body,or its because anything about cortisol(i have read methylphenidate needs cortisol for its dopaminergic effect)
i would like to know your opinion
08-06-2009, 05:12 PM
Wow this is an old post I am not on Concerta anymore I had heart bypass sugary and was taken off it. I was on it for fatigue yet today take 1k of TMG noon and bedtime for my heart. My TRT today is 80mgs of Depo T shots every 3 days and 400 IU's of HCG the 2 days each in between. I now don't use Indolplex/DIM I use Arimidex .25 mgs every 2 to 3 days gaging by my night time and morning wood if wood stops I know I am going to low so I stop taking it until wood comes back then go back on it but do less. I do good gaging my E2 levels by wood and my labs.
08-06-2009, 07:22 PM
Sorry of hearing you had a sugary.I hope you get well.
Im going to beguing with tmg and dim because my shbg is too low,and im having problems of hair loss,and insulin resistance.
Im reading all the information i can about this,and i kknow both are being used with good results for rising shbg levels.
I read this coment you wrote about the problem of mixing methylphenidate and tmg,and as im taking methylphenidate,i am very interested in knowing your opinion about what was the reason for that imcompatible reaction...
what about you?
was perhaps because tmg eliminated concerta from your organism before the normal time??
08-06-2009, 10:33 PM
I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
08-07-2009, 11:34 AM
I never did figure out why the DIM and TMG did not go good with methylphenidate but when I switched to Arimidex the problem was gone. When one has a low SHBG it can be caused by insulin resistance go to Dr. Mariano's new forum and do a search about low SHBG levels he said a lot about this if not then post to him.
08-07-2009, 01:02 PM
Thank you very much for your answers.
Im not taking any ISSR,and i have tried to fix thyroid at first,but i couldnt change the problem.Im taking a high fiber diet trying to improve the insulin resistence problem.
So,the Dim(without tmg) caused problems too if mixed with concerta ?
Thanks for the link to dr mariancos web,i will read it with atention.
08-07-2009, 01:08 PM
I was down that road with SSRI meds you can read my story here at this link. And at this link how I got started treating my Adreanls and Thyroid.
If your on Concerta and having problems with feeling fatigued and get everything going around you might have low Cortisol levels Concerta can stress your Adrenals and over work them.
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