GH dosage for maximum of normal range
- 02-13-2007, 01:48 PM
- 02-13-2007, 02:08 PM
02-13-2007, 02:10 PM
02-14-2007, 09:15 AM
02-15-2007, 02:34 PM
Many chose to dose 7 straight days; I've done it that way myself. I like to take a day or two off. Dosing in the morning keeps you from shutting down your pituitary at night, but IGF levels maintain for a few days, and the higher levels make it produce less. For whatever reason I do better with a few days off. Not everyone may be the same.
02-15-2007, 10:06 PM
One might speculate that it would also keep receptors from down regulating.
Anyone on GH with insurance? I was curious to know what it costs you and how much insurance covers.
02-16-2007, 11:29 AM
02-16-2007, 11:32 AM
02-16-2007, 01:24 PM
If one has normal age related reduced GH production, where the hypothalamus and pituitary are working ok, but at low levels, the feedback is still working, but at a lower baseline; read on. If the h&p are damaged, the story is very different and the feedback to a dead process is non-concern.
There is a feedback system for GH, which ages and lowers levels over time. There are three things that reduce HG in a feedback fashion, one is excessive fat, cortisol also reduces GH, but the main feedback element is IGF-1. (This indirect feedback is not unique, consider that E is the strong feedback element for T.)
GH in serum lasts only a few minutes, so measuring that is rather useless. The GH causes IGF-1 levels to rise, and IGF-1 has a rather long serum lifetime. That is why IGF-1 is measured.
When you inject GH, IGF-1 increases. As the IGF-1 is rather persistent, then the thought that by avoiding injections later in the day that you can avoid negative feedback may be wishful thinking. For those with higher doses who inject 5 days and rest for 2, the IGF-1 levels may still be high enough to inhibit GH. Remember that if your GH is low, then any levels of IGF-1 above where your IGF-1 levels were (baseline) will be triggering negative feedback. For body builders who are young and healthy, they have normal higher GH and IGF-1 baselines to start. For them, if they take a two day rest off of GH, then when their IGF-1 levels fall below their [higher] baseline, that might trigger natural GH release. But when you have very low baseline levels of IGF-1, with two days off, your IGF-1 may easily stay above your low baseline and that would still be creating negative feedback.
So that is the wider picture. I had a quick look in a book for the half-life of IGF-1, which I did not find. The actual merits of these effects depend on that half-life, the dose and how fast one clears these things from serum. And IGF-1 gets bound in IGF-1 binding protein IGFBP-3 which also increased with age to reduce the effects of ones diminishing HG production.
IGFBP-3 increases with age, but also with GH production. If GH levels are very low, then IGFBP-3 will reduce. So that is a BW marker of low GH. With GH therapy, IGFBP-3 will increase and is probably responsible for some non-linear dose response effects.
I found this:
IGFBP-3, the most abundant IGFBP in human serum, is synthesized mainly by hepatic Kupffer cells and binds over 90% of circulating IGF, resulting in a prolonged half-life (6). IGFBP-3 is also produced locally by a variety of normal and tumor cells, suggesting that the cellular microenvironment may directly affect the action of IGF-1 (11). The biological functions of IGFBP-3, aside from being the major binding protein for IGF-1, are complex and remain poorly understood. However, IGFBP-3 is known to inhibit cell proliferation by interfering with the interaction of IGF-1 and its receptor (34, 37). Interestingly, IGFBP-3 can also modulate cell growth and survival independently of IGF (7), presumably via interactions with cellular proteins such as the Alzheimer's survival protein, humanin (31), and nuclear targets such as the retinoid X receptor alpha (7, 8, 36).
As GH increases IGFBP-3 levels and it also increases total IGF-1 half-life, increased GH from therapy will tend to increase the half-life of IGF-1. So that also has implications for the thought that a two day rest will allow the h&p to get active.
Some of the action of IGFBP-3 seems to be store and release, acting as a transport medium. I have not found out the fate of IGFBP-3. As folks have age related HG&IGF-1 decline and age related increases in IGFBP-3, some of the negative effects of aging might be from the increased binding of IGF-1 or a reduction in the release of ICF-1 from IGFBP-3. I have not found any info on how IGFBP-[1-6] are cleared from the blood stream. It has to clear somewhere as it is continuously produced. With increased ICGBP-3 levels with age, that clearance mechanism might be an age related 'sink' for IGF-1 which will reduce the amounts that are available for IGF-1 receptors.
02-16-2007, 11:49 PM
02-17-2007, 02:06 AM
02-17-2007, 02:34 AM
For some reason I seem to carry less body fat when dosing the same amount per week 5 days on/2 off. I'm not sure why. My doctor wants me to inject 7 days without a break. I have a blood draw in 6 weeks. It will be intesting to see how it effects my IGF level.
02-17-2007, 02:18 PM
Such as: I was thinking that higher doses would increase IGFBP-3 which would damped ICF-1 effects by blunting spikes and creating more of a time release, as slower chemical change processes are required to release the IGF-1 from the binding proteins. So there may be some diminishing responses to higher dosing.
Does that make any sense?
(The IGF-1 assay is actually "Free IGF-1". Think of the implications of this with respect to IGFBP-3 concentration and subsequent GH dosing titration)."
I did not know that. That would seem to complicate things. The amount of free IGF-1 might be changeable or inconsistant. Might explain why my IGF-1 lab work was lower after starting TRT.
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