testosterone lower then before treatment

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    Exclamation testosterone lower then before treatment


    Hello,

    i have a question how is it posible that a bloodtest before treatment is lower then during treatment ?

    testosterone is 3360 was 4400
    oestradiol is 25 was 17
    free testosterone is 116 was 135
    shbg is 13 was 19
    androstaandiol-gluc is 8,97 was 9,75



    using 125 mg sustanon a week
    armour
    hydrocortisone
    dhea
    hgh
    and vitamines a b12 d and multi

    i hope that some one can help me get my test levels go up.

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    I think you just proved that sustanon is not as good as cypionate or enenthate. What is the hydrocortisone for? You realize that is a catabolic hormone, right?
    What are you being treated for if testosterone was 4400?
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    How long have you been on this schedule?
    •   
       

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    His lab could have a different scale, not ng/DL. Could be that he is in the 300 - 400 range?
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    Sustanon isnt that good, your levels spike really high for the 1st day or 2. and then after that they go lowish.
    Switch to enan or cyp, 100mg a week.
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    I think you just proved that sustanon is not as good as cypionate or enenthate. What is the hydrocortisone for? You realize that is a catabolic hormone, right?
    What are you being treated for if testosterone was 4400?

    sustanon is the only testosterone the drugstores have here in Holland.
    hydrocortisone is for adrenall fatique
    i have more probs then only testosterone
    low:
    thyroid
    dhea
    cortisol
    igf
    why i am been treated with 4400 because it needs to been upper level 6500-7000
    and free test was 135 must be 300-350


    How long have you been on this schedule?

    3 months


    His lab could have a different scale, not ng/DL. Could be that he is in the 300 - 400 range?

    pg/ml

    Sustanon isnt that good, your levels spike really high for the 1st day or 2. and then after that they go lowish.
    Switch to enan or cyp, 100mg a week.

    then i have to feel good the first 2 days butt it makes no diffrents

    can it be that my body fights the esters because it is not human ??

    i have done cycles in the past up to 2,5grams a week and zero result !
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    Get some imported, ask your doctor or pharmacist.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ItsHectic View Post
    Get some imported, ask your doctor or pharmacist.
    i have tried test ent butt the same effect !

    i think the esters are broken downe wrong in my body
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch Buster View Post
    I think you just proved that sustanon is not as good as cypionate or enenthate. What is the hydrocortisone for? You realize that is a catabolic hormone, right?
    What are you being treated for if testosterone was 4400?

    sustanon is the only testosterone the drugstores have here in Holland.
    hydrocortisone is for adrenall fatique
    i have more probs then only testosterone
    low:
    thyroid
    dhea
    cortisol
    igf
    why i am been treated with 4400 because it needs to been upper level 6500-7000
    and free test was 135 must be 300-350


    How long have you been on this schedule?

    3 months


    His lab could have a different scale, not ng/DL. Could be that he is in the 300 - 400 range?

    pg/ml

    Sustanon isnt that good, your levels spike really high for the 1st day or 2. and then after that they go lowish.
    Switch to enan or cyp, 100mg a week.

    then i have to feel good the first 2 days butt it makes no diffrents

    can it be that my body fights the esters because it is not human ??

    i have done cycles in the past up to 2,5grams a week and zero result !
    Wonder if there is a (reasonably simple and as legal as possible) way to take Sustanon, mix it with some facial cream (for ladies) and end up with something resembling Tcream that I am getting from womensinternational.com

    IIRC, only about 10-20% of T in transdermals gets into blood stream, so even if there is a way, one would have to have excess of sustanon to make it work.
    May be your doctor could do it for you.
    -----------------
    Before you do testosterone or at least while you doing it, make sure you take care of your adrenals, thyroid, dhea.
    Check your sugar/insuline while you are at it.
    What is you body fat, waist size?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch Buster View Post
    Isustanon is the only testosterone the drugstores have here in Holland.
    hydrocortisone is for adrenall fatique
    i have more probs then only testosterone
    low:
    thyroid
    dhea
    cortisol
    igf
    why i am been treated with 4400 because it needs to been upper level 6500-7000
    and free test was 135 must be 300-350


    can it be that my body fights the esters because it is not human ??

    i have done cycles in the past up to 2,5grams a week and zero result !

    It's not the esters. Some people seem to be non responders to AAS. I need higher than average doses before I get any effect.
    I'm thinking your low test levels could be caused by the cortisone. It is very catabolic.

    upper level 6500-7000 You use a different scale to measure where you live. In America a commonly used scale is 300 to 1000nanograms per deciliter. Different doctors use different scales, I have also seen one that uses 220 to 880ng/dl.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonRider View Post
    It's not the esters. Some people seem to be non responders to anabolic steroids. I need higher than average doses before I get any effect.
    I'm thinking your low test levels could be caused by the cortisone. It is very catabolic.

    upper level 6500-7000 You use a different scale to measure where you live. In America a commonly used scale is 300 to 1000nanograms per deciliter. Different doctors use different scales, I have also seen one that uses 220 to 880ng/dl.
    how much do you need ?
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    I would get off that hydrocortisone ASAP. Also why are u taking DHEA. Your mixing too many hormones together.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flaw View Post
    I would get off that hydrocortisone ASAP. Also why are u taking DHEA. Your mixing too many hormones together.
    doc says i need to.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch Buster View Post
    Hello,

    i have a question how is it posible that a bloodtest before treatment is lower then during treatment ?

    testosterone is 3360 was 4400
    oestradiol is 25 was 17
    free testosterone is 116 was 135
    shbg is 13 was 19
    androstaandiol-gluc is 8,97 was 9,75



    using 125 mg sustanon a week
    armour
    hydrocortisone
    dhea
    hgh
    and vitamines a b12 d and multi

    i hope that some one can help me get my test levels go up.
    no body that can help me in the right direction ?

    last week i upped my dosage of armpur from 120mg to 180mg i felt good one week but this weekend the energy was gone ....

    is it posible that my hasimoto adapt in one week so that i have to take more ?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch Buster View Post
    Hello,

    i have a question how is it posible that a bloodtest before treatment is lower then during treatment ?

    testosterone is 3360 was 4400
    oestradiol is 25 was 17
    free testosterone is 116 was 135
    shbg is 13 was 19
    androstaandiol-gluc is 8,97 was 9,75



    using 125 mg sustanon a week
    armour
    hydrocortisone
    dhea
    hgh
    and vitamines a b12 d and multi

    i hope that some one can help me get my test levels go up.
    Get as close as you can to a daily dose.
    When you do blood tests, do them at rigidly described intervals.
    You variations in test results can (probably) be explained with weekly injections and inconsistent timing of blood draw.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch Buster View Post
    no body that can help me in the right direction ?

    last week i upped my dosage of armpur from 120mg to 180mg i felt good one week but this weekend the energy was gone ....

    is it posible that my hasimoto adapt in one week so that i have to take more ?
    I am in the same boat as you don't have hasimoto's but I am on Armour 1 grain 3x's a day. 5mgs of cortef 4 x's a day and DHEA 25mgs once a day.

    Question did you do the blood work the day of your next shot just before it. If so you would be this low. Can you get on Testogel it would work much better.

    When I add HC my T levels went way up.

    When doing armour you need to go up slow like 15mgs every 2 weeks best way to keep track of how your doing is to take your Temps and chart them.
    Temperature Patterns of low adrenal and thyroid function
    I was able to get up to 3 grains of Armour for my thyroid and now holding. I added 15mg. every 2 weeks by how I felt and my temps on my chart. When I added the 15mgs my avg. temp went up a little and stayed there in about 1.5 weeks my temps avg. would start comming down and I would feel hypo again. This is when I added the Arimour.
    Temperature Patterns of low adrenal and thyroid function

    A good site for this is this link.
    Stop The Thyroid Madness Index Page
    Phil
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmgamer18 View Post
    I am in the same boat as you don't have hasimoto's but I am on Armour 1 grain 3x's a day. 5mgs of cortef 4 x's a day and DHEA 25mgs once a day.

    Question did you do the blood work the day of your next shot just before it. If so you would be this low. Can you get on Testogel it would work much better.

    When I add HC my T levels went way up.

    When doing armour you need to go up slow like 15mgs every 2 weeks best way to keep track of how your doing is to take your Temps and chart them.
    Temperature Patterns of low adrenal and thyroid function
    I was able to get up to 3 grains of Armour for my thyroid and now holding. I added 15mg. every 2 weeks by how I felt and my temps on my chart. When I added the 15mgs my avg. temp went up a little and stayed there in about 1.5 weeks my temps avg. would start comming down and I would feel hypo again. This is when I added the Arimour.
    Temperature Patterns of low adrenal and thyroid function

    A good site for this is this link.
    Stop The Thyroid Madness Index Page
    Phil
    thanks for those site i already know them ..

    my temps are allways low 36-36,5 C

    i think that my adrenalls lasted for one week and crashed again.

    is there any test or proof to repair adrenalls with hgh or igf-lr3 ?

    in 1,5 week i have an apointment in belgium again i hope they can do something to get this realy bad feeling go away. and bring back my energy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch Buster View Post
    thanks for those site i already know them ..

    my temps are allways low 36-36,5 C

    i think that my adrenalls lasted for one week and crashed again.

    is there any test or proof to repair adrenalls with hgh or igf-lr3 ?

    in 1,5 week i have an apointment in belgium again i hope they can do something to get this realy bad feeling go away. and bring back my energy.
    I don't know if you can get this test but it is a ACTH Stim. test to see if your Primary or Secondary also you can do a Saliva test on your Adrenls this checks them 4 times morning, noon, dinner and bed time.
    Stop The Thyroid Madness Those durn Adrenals!!
    Stop The Thyroid Madness Take your temp!
    How much HC are you on and how do you take it.
    I do 10mgs in the morning with some milk and 5mgs at noon and 5mgs at dinner.
    Phil
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmgamer18 View Post
    I don't know if you can get this test but it is a ACTH Stim. test to see if your Primary or Secondary also you can do a Saliva test on your Adrenls this checks them 4 times morning, noon, dinner and bed time.
    Stop The Thyroid Madness Those durn Adrenals!!
    Stop The Thyroid Madness Take your temp!
    How much HC are you on and how do you take it.
    I do 10mgs in the morning with some milk and 5mgs at noon and 5mgs at dinner.
    Phil
    20 morning

    10mg afternoon

    i did salvia test result was cortisol good dhea bad
    blood +24hour urine cortisol low dhea low
    testosterone low
    dht low
    shbg low
    igf low
    insuline high
    copper high
    zinc high
    vit d low
    cholesterol low


    i think last week my adrenalls crashed again because i upped my armour and did more and worked more then i normaly can.

    i also changed the time of taking hgh normaly i take it before bed time dr john write here in a treath why waste your own free hgh take it in the morning so i tried it.

    in the hormone handbook says hgh is breakdown cortisol so take hgh when cortisol needs to be low so before bed is perfect time.

    last night i have taken hgh before bed and my sleep was a lot better.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch Buster View Post
    20 morning

    10mg afternoon

    i did salvia test result was cortisol good dhea bad
    blood +24hour urine cortisol low dhea low
    testosterone low
    dht low
    shbg low
    igf low
    insuline high
    copper high
    zinc high
    vit d low
    cholesterol low


    i think last week my adrenalls crashed again because i upped my armour and did more and worked more then i normaly can.

    i also changed the time of taking hgh normaly i take it before bed time dr john write here in a treath why waste your own free hgh take it in the morning so i tried it.

    in the hormone handbook says hgh is breakdown cortisol so take hgh when cortisol needs to be low so before bed is perfect time.

    last night i have taken hgh before bed and my sleep was a lot better.

    Dutch,
    interesting stuff about Gh before bed helping you sleep better. Makes alot of sense.

    GH therapy is still VERY cutting edge and VERY new. Let me state why - Yes, I know people have been taking GH forever. Doesn't matter though - It hasn't been that widespread amoungst the general population, that is thousands of guys on HRT, up until maybe the last 5 or so years. Yea, maybe a small segment of the bodybuilding community, but never like now, with so many regular, non professional athlete/bodybuilder people.

    Thus, alot of new stuff is popping up since use is up. Some reporting different experiences with diff doses, splits, days on/off, when/how to take it, etc. etc.

    Point meaning, there is no definite "right" way right now for GH. Its so new. If you think taking before bed is working right for you, I say go for it. Who knows. A year from now that might be the protocol. New info is literally coming out by the day and protocols are in in constant change in the anti aging world, ESPECIALLY with GH therapy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch Buster View Post
    20 morning

    10mg afternoon

    i did salvia test result was cortisol good dhea bad
    blood +24hour urine cortisol low dhea low
    testosterone low
    dht low
    shbg low
    igf low
    insuline high
    copper high
    zinc high
    vit d low
    cholesterol low


    i think last week my adrenalls crashed again because i upped my armour and did more and worked more then i normaly can.

    i also changed the time of taking hgh normaly i take it before bed time dr john write here in a treath why waste your own free hgh take it in the morning so i tried it.

    in the hormone handbook says hgh is breakdown cortisol so take hgh when cortisol needs to be low so before bed is perfect time.

    last night i have taken hgh before bed and my sleep was a lot better.
    I beleive the cortisol is doing its job just it is antagonising the DHEA which could be affecting your igf-1 and test levels. Everything has to be in balance that what makes HRT so difficult.
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    WIth the GH you need to talk to a qualified doc. As for the sust. That's probably the worst choice you can make for HRT. Your Doc's should be able to get something like a cyp or even a test cream that is applied ED. The flucuations in your bloodwork is a clear sign that your hormones are all over the place and causing problems.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jminis View Post
    WIth the GH you need to talk to a qualified doc. As for the sust. That's probably the worst choice you can make for HRT. Your Doc's should be able to get something like a cyp or even a test cream that is applied ED. The flucuations in your bloodwork is a clear sign that your hormones are all over the place and causing problems.
    sust and cream are only things whe have here legal.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch Buster View Post
    sust and cream are only things whe have here legal.
    May be I overlooked, but this is first time you said that you have access to testosterone cream.

    Drop sust
    cream is the way to go.
    Do blood tests, put as much as you have to to get your
    FreeT and BioAvailableT in the right place.
    TotalT gives you only genaral information, Albumin and SHBG levels decide where your FreeT and BioAvailableT ends up.
    Their level changes with varying T levels and probably other factors.
    FreeT=160 - 250 pg/mL (200 best)
    BAT= best at 5.5(nmol/L)
    use units conversion if you have different units:
    http://www.get-back-on-track.com/en/tools/umrechner.php
    I got the numbers for FreeT and BioAvailableT from:
    ------------http://www.atypon-link.com/WDG/doi/pdf/10.1515/JLM.2006.050

    Table 2 CalcV BAT and Calc2 BAT in comparison to ammonium sulfate precipitation BAT found in different studies.
    Table 4 CalcV FT and Calc2 FT in comparison to equilibrium dialysis FT found in different studies.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    May be I overlooked, but this is first time you said that you have access to testosterone cream.

    Drop sust
    cream is the way to go.
    Do blood tests, put as much as you have to to get your
    FreeT and BioAvailableT in the right place.
    TotalT gives you only genaral information, Albumin and SHBG levels decide where your FreeT and BioAvailableT ends up.
    Their level changes with varying T levels and probably other factors.
    FreeT=160 - 250 pg/mL (200 best)
    BAT= best at 5.5(nmol/L)
    use units conversion if you have different units:
    http://www.get-back-on-track.com/en/tools/umrechner.php
    I got the numbers for FreeT and BioAvailableT from:
    ------------http://www.atypon-link.com/WDG/doi/pdf/10.1515/JLM.2006.050

    Table 2 CalcV BAT and Calc2 BAT in comparison to ammonium sulfate precipitation BAT found in different studies.
    Table 4 CalcV FT and Calc2 FT in comparison to equilibrium dialysis FT found in different studies.
    cream i can get from insurance

    test cyp from other sources

    cream is alot of work and works for most men

    test cyp is 1 or 2 times week inject works also with most men

    i am conffused what to take and witch has quickest results ?

    if testosterone is good my adrenalls can heal quicker.
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    Your excess cortisol not balanced with proper dhea and testosterone is what causing majority of your problems. Cortisol increases copper levels in the blood stream and copper and is probably lowering thyroid and you may be progesterone sensitive which is diverting the progesterone to the cortisol. Cortisol causes high insulin levels and high insulin levels lower IGF-1 and DHEA. you have all the classical signs of hyperadrenia ..back off the cortisol it should lower the insulin and raise IGF-1, testosterone, copper. With high copper you are probably over loaded liver pathways with estrogen but not estrodial but the bad kind..Where ever copper is found so is estrogen ..
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973 View Post
    Your excess cortisol not balanced with proper dhea and testosterone is what causing majority of your problems. Cortisol increases copper levels in the blood stream and copper and is probably lowering thyroid and you may be progesterone sensitive which is diverting the progesterone to the cortisol. Cortisol causes high insulin levels and high insulin levels lower IGF-1 and DHEA. you have all the classical signs of hyperadrenia ..back off the cortisol it should lower the insulin and raise IGF-1, testosterone, copper. With high copper you are probably over loaded liver pathways with estrogen but not estrodial but the bad kind..Where ever copper is found so is estrogen ..
    first can you make your post more seperated i am very tired and have dificulties to read alot of charts close together.


    copper 193 ug/dl 70--160 my doc says it must be below 115

    i tought copper was from pipeline so i drink only osmose water


    cut down the cortiol you say but if it is adrenall fatique then it getting wurs

    cortisol levels in salvia test where normal

    sort list of problems.
    1997 pfieher
    2005 burnout worked 100 -120 hours a week. got sick every time i had a holiday

    did cycles in the past whit zero result only gaining fatt and water

    thanks every body who is thinking for and with me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch Buster View Post
    first can you make your post more seperated i am very tired and have dificulties to read alot of charts close together.


    copper 193 ug/dl 70--160 my doc says it must be below 115

    cut down the cortiol you say but if it is adrenall fatique then it getting wurs

    sort list of problems.
    1997 pfieher
    2005 burnout worked 100 -120 hours a week. got sick every time i had a holiday

    did cycles in the past whit zero result only gaining fatt and water

    thanks every body who is thinking for and with me.
    Ok you better get your water checked for copper levels. If you have copper pipes then you could be building up for a long time. Excessive copper slows adrenals down ans thyroid, causes insulin dysfunction as well as weight loss. switch to a multivitamin with out copper, but first remove all copper sources and if you go swimming alot in cholrated pool STOP !!
    what types of food do you eat, lay off nuts, liver, lobster, shrimp,

    INCREASE NAC and sulfur based foods as well as molybdenum (500 mcg -1000 mcgs) MSM 2000 mgs a day

    I'll trade you mine is at 72 copper serum LOL !!

    Sounds more like you have a some kind of INFECTION OR CANDIDA dr might want to do a stool sample to rule that out

    COPPER TOXICITY SYNDROME

    MoonDragon's Health & Wellness: Copper Toxicity
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973 View Post
    Ok you better get your water checked for copper levels. If you have copper pipes then you could be building up for a long time. Excessive copper slows adrenals down ans thyroid, causes insulin dysfunction as well as weight loss. switch to a multivitamin with out copper, but first remove all copper sources and if you go swimming alot in cholrated pool STOP !!
    what types of food do you eat, lay off nuts, liver, lobster, shrimp,

    INCREASE NAC and sulfur based foods as well as molybdenum (500 mcg -1000 mcgs) MSM 2000 mgs a day

    I'll trade you mine is at 72 copper serum LOL !!

    Sounds more like you have a some kind of INFECTION OR CANDIDA dr might want to do a stool sample to rule that out

    COPPER TOXICITY SYNDROME

    MoonDragon's Health & Wellness: Copper Toxicity
    what is nac ?

    zinc is also high 173 ug/dl 70--150 doc says 110 is good
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch Buster View Post
    what is nac ?

    zinc is also high 173 ug/dl 70--150 doc says 110 is good
    N-Acetyl Cysteine

    You my freind are an over methylator !! and why you have high copper levels and probably low histamines as well.

    NAC will chelate out copper and zinc . This is very common in autistic childern, but first need to find the source of exposure . Do you use osomsis water for showers too? Taking a shower with copper pipes will just do as much damage as drinking it because copper gets absorbed through your skin from the water !! I think its your house is where exposure is happening or your diet.

    NAC and vitamin C 1000 3 times a day will lower your copper levels as well as zinc !! YOU ARE VITAMIN C deficient..What was your last jobs over the past 10 years?
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973 View Post
    N-Acetyl Cysteine

    You my freind are an over methylator !! and why you have high copper levels and probably low histamines as well.

    NAC will chelate out copper and zinc . This is very common in autistic childern, but first need to find the source of exposure . Do you use osomsis water for showers too? Taking a shower with copper pipes will just do as much damage as drinking it because copper gets absorbed through your skin from the water !! I think its your house is where exposure is happening or your diet.

    NAC and vitamin C 1000 3 times a day will lower your copper levels as well as zinc !! YOU ARE VITAMIN C deficient..What was your last jobs over the past 10 years?

    great link !

    arsenicum is also high !

    i only drink osmose water
    last jobs are all clean work security and gym

    what is a methylator ???
    wich amout of nac need i and holong does it take to feel something ?

    maybe this is my problem to when i take aminoacids i become a diffrent person full of hate.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch Buster View Post
    great link !

    arsenicum is also high !

    i only drink osmose water
    last jobs are all clean work security and gym

    what is a methylator ???
    wich amout of nac need i and holong does it take to feel something ?

    maybe this is my problem to when i take aminoacids i become a diffrent person full of hate.
    Yep your amino acid intolerant with high copper intake your protein synthesis is shut down. You said you work security is that in a nigfht club i suppose !!! HAHAHA I beleive we have found your culprit

    Toxic elements in cigarette smoke

    NAC you need to do 600 mgs 2-3 times a day and then get retested.

    Your vitamin C levels are probably low too due to oxidation from excess copper and constant exposrure. Arsenic is also found in chicken from the feed and also found in alimunm foil or pots and pans Do you use them to cook in?

    You need to identify the source and remove it and then all the supplements will work better
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973 View Post
    Yep your amino acid intolerant with high copper intake your protein synthesis is shut down. You said you work security is that in a nigfht club i suppose !!! HAHAHA I beleive we have found your culprit

    Toxic elements in cigarette smoke
    ll kinds of work also night life

    but i think my main problem is pipeline all my life i drink lost of pipeline water

    i don't smoke or drink alcohol

    before i could drink and feel nothing no 1 glas wine and i am

    i go cut the multi vitamin with copper

    i go find nac

    i think you have found one of my problems that is along time with me. maybe thats is the backbone of all my problems.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch Buster View Post
    ll kinds of work also night life

    but i think my main problem is pipeline all my life i drink lost of pipeline water

    i don't smoke or drink alcohol

    before i could drink and feel nothing no 1 glas wine and i am

    i go cut the multi vitamin with copper

    i go find nac

    i think you have found one of my problems that is along time with me. maybe thats is the backbone of all my problems.
    Don;t worry bud its easy to correct. its not you smoking but being exposed to second hand smoke for a long time could have been the cause plus exposure to your copper pipes in your house. Chelating will take only 3 months and then alot of your problems could be corrected and body will rebalance it self if not then HRT is always available. Stopping the multivitamin and copper based foods will definitely be a bigg thing. You are probably iron deficient as well and that would explain why thyroid is not working and getting hyper symptoms when you increased..

    excessive copper leads to iron, molydbenum, manganese defciency and ypu probably had symptoms of schizophrenia as well because most of them have elevated copper levels.


    This will help you to understand mineral balances of copper
    but source of your problem is arsenic and copper over load


    Chromium Copper DRI/RDA, negative health/side effects, overdose, toxicity, nutritional requirements

    article on chelation of copper
    CANCER RESEARCH INSTITUTE OF WEST TENNESSEE

    If you nip this in the ass now then you will not have any of the cardiovascular problems associated later on in life mainly atherosclorisis

    Histapenia – Copper Excess

    Histapenia (hista-: histamine; -penia: deficiency of) is a shortage of histamine in the body. Histamine is an important brain chemical involved in many reactions. It has been found that 50% of patients classified as "schizophrenic" have low histamine levels in the blood and it rises to normal as they improve.

    These same patients are found to have high copper levels. Elevated copper decreases blood histamine. Excess copper is linked with psychosis.

    According to Pfeiffer, people with histapenia tend to have classic signs, including canker sores, difficult orgasm with sex, no headaches or allergies, heavy growth of body hair, ideas of grandeur, undue suspicion of people, racing thoughts, the feeling that someone controls one’s mind, seeing or hearing things abnormally, ringing in the ears, and others.


    have dr check whoe white blood histmaines. Did you take multivitamin and then take blood tests ?

    Yep wine contains histamines and your body is low on it and it is like WOW I like this LOL so it is like a shock to your system.

    Copper Toxicity
    TPCN - How Copper Affects Your Health - The Shocking Truth!
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973 View Post
    Don;t worry bud its easy to correct. its not you smoking but being exposed to second hand smoke for a long time could have been the cause plus exposure to your copper pipes in your house. Chelating will take only 3 months and then alot of your problems could be corrected and body will rebalance it self if not then HRT is always available. Stopping the multivitamin and copper based foods will definitely be a bigg thing. You are probably iron deficient as well and that would explain why thyroid is not working and getting hyper symptoms when you increased..

    excessive copper leads to iron, molydbenum, manganese defciency and ypu probably had symptoms of schizophrenia as well because most of them have elevated copper levels.


    This will help you to understand mineral balances of copper
    but source of your problem is arsenic and copper over load


    Chromium Copper DRI/RDA, negative health/side effects, overdose, toxicity, nutritional requirements

    article on chelation of copper
    CANCER RESEARCH INSTITUTE OF WEST TENNESSEE

    If you nip this in the ass now then you will not have any of the cardiovascular problems associated later on in life mainly atherosclorisis

    Histapenia Copper Excess

    Histapenia (hista-: histamine; -penia: deficiency of) is a shortage of histamine in the body. Histamine is an important brain chemical involved in many reactions. It has been found that 50% of patients classified as "schizophrenic" have low histamine levels in the blood and it rises to normal as they improve.

    These same patients are found to have high copper levels. Elevated copper decreases blood histamine. Excess copper is linked with psychosis.

    According to Pfeiffer, people with histapenia tend to have classic signs, including canker sores, difficult orgasm with sex, no headaches or allergies, heavy growth of body hair, ideas of grandeur, undue suspicion of people, racing thoughts, the feeling that someone controls ones mind, seeing or hearing things abnormally, ringing in the ears, and others.


    have dr check whoe white blood histmaines. Did you take multivitamin and then take blood tests ?

    Yep wine contains histamines and your body is low on it and it is like WOW I like this LOL so it is like a shock to your system.

    Copper Toxicity
    TPCN - How Copper Affects Your Health - The Shocking Truth!

    most of the side you i don't have.

    is this problem also why my jodium/iode is high ?

    histamine i dont' know the word in dutch

    celvolume mcv is low

    nac is orderd from the UK i hope to have this friday/saterday

    and there was none vitamin or anything taken before bloodtest.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch Buster View Post
    most of the side you i don't have.

    is this problem also why my jodium/iode is high ?

    histamine i dont' know the word in dutch

    celvolume mcv is low

    nac is orderd from the UK i hope to have this friday/saterday

    and there was none vitamin or anything taken before bloodtest.
    Well as i was right again..you are iron deficeinct severly !! if not then iron may not be being tranpsorted and ultilized and may be building up. Check serum ferritin

    eMedicine - Iron Deficiency Anemia : Article by Marcel E Conrad, MD

    Now iron deficiency is kind of the prototype of a microcytic hypochromic anemia, but it’s important to remember that there are a number of other causes of microcytosis and to keep this differential diagnosis in mind; the anemia of inflammation can be associated with a mild decrease in the hemoglobin and a mild decrease in the MCV, which ranges in the lower limit of normal to the upper limit of being abnormal. Thalassemia minor and thalassemia major, beta thalassemia major and beta thalassemia minor, are both associated with microcytosis.

    You need to get liver bile moving so it can help detoxify the liver milk thistle, dandilion root will all help with this. Reason your thyroid is wacked is because of lipid perioxdation from the copper in the liver (excessive free radicals floating around ) - BAD NEWS !!
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973 View Post
    Well as i was right again..you are iron deficeinct severly !! if not then iron may not be being tranpsorted and ultilized and may be building up. Check serum ferritin

    eMedicine - Iron Deficiency Anemia : Article by Marcel E Conrad, MD

    Now iron deficiency is kind of the prototype of a microcytic hypochromic anemia, but its important to remember that there are a number of other causes of microcytosis and to keep this differential diagnosis in mind; the anemia of inflammation can be associated with a mild decrease in the hemoglobin and a mild decrease in the MCV, which ranges in the lower limit of normal to the upper limit of being abnormal. Thalassemia minor and thalassemia major, beta thalassemia major and beta thalassemia minor, are both associated with microcytosis.
    i am taking ferritin !

    because of low blood volume
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch Buster View Post
    i am taking ferritin !

    because of low blood volume
    Your taking an iron supplements then LOL extra iron will also help to lower copper, zinc as well. You are headed in right directions. Be careful when taking iron near thyroid 4 hour seperation is needed..Would explain your hyperthryoid symptoms during increase dosages. Getting ferritin back up will drive thyroid to the receptor site as also cortisol as well. The low ferritin would explain why you are having excessive adrenal symptoms in the blood but not in the tissue, iron is needed to tranpsort cortisol to the cell.. Correct the ferritin lower copy you be good as new !!
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973 View Post
    Your taking an iron supplements then LOL extra iron will also help to lower copper, zinc as well. You are headed in right directions. Be careful when taking iron near thyroid 4 hour seperation is needed..
    thanks for your help !

    this was a learning day !

    i go talk about this with my doc in belgium ..

    she is very openminded to all kinds of polution.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch Buster View Post
    thanks for your help !

    this was a learning day !

    i go talk about this with my doc in belgium ..

    she is very openminded to all kinds of polution.
    Does it make sense now?
    You need to lower copper sources (diet/ check water content for copper), job at night time. walk out side more and get fresh air if you have too

    take 500 mgs c every time you take your ferritin it will increase absorption.
    NAC, r-ALA, milk thistle, vitamin C, iron, sulfur foods will reduce copper and zinc..

    EGGS raw organic eggs are high in sulfur but add in 500 mcg molybdenum to help metabolize the sulfur or it could make u worse..
  

  
 

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