coordinate injection with lab draw

[B5150]

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/47857-trt-recipe-success.html

• I also keep in mind the coordination of the injection with the lab draw, as peak serum levels are attained at about the 48 hour point, then fall to about 35% at the one week point. However, by the end of the fifth week, the pharmacodynamics of testosterone cypionate (half life is 5-8 days) are such that relatively stable serum levels are now being produced via weekly injections.

• My TRT male patients who suffer E2 elevations above the top of normal range are placed on 0.25mg of Arimidex every third day. If that is not enough, I use the same dose EOD. It is possible to cut the tiny 1mg tabs into quarters, but here a gel or cream preparation, compounded to convenient dosing, makes a lot of sense. A month later I recheck E2, and make further adjustment if necessary.

I am trying to clarify the interval between injection and draw when one has been on a steady injection dose for several months. How many days after or before next injection is optimum?

Additionally, in what time frame after the cessation of an AI will my E2 levels be render unaltered? How long does it take to stop inhibiting the aromatization of the testosterone?

Coordinating this with GP and lab is a challenge and I wanted to get some further insight to be armed with when presenting my case.

 

[JanSz]

I am trying to clarify the interval between injection and draw when one has been on a steady injection dose for several months. How many days after or before next injection is optimum?

Additionally, in what time frame after the cessation of an AI will my E2 levels be render unaltered? How long does it take to stop inhibiting the aromatization of the testosterone?

Coordinating this with GP and lab is a challenge and I wanted to get some further insight to be armed with when presenting my case.

Correct answer will come from Dr John.

Short answer, month to six weeks of steady routine on T and AI.

Longer answer.
IIRC stabilization occurs at 2.5 of half-life.

Recently there were two threads on this topic.
Cannot find first thread.
The second thread was:
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/58419-half-lifes.html#post711150
Dr John
01-20-2007, 02:34 PM
=====================================

I see this list posted all over the Internet. It's nonsense.

A few off the top of my head:

Prop--not sure, but you have to use QOD dosing
Enan 5-8 days
Cyp 5-8 days
Arimidex 5 days

T3 is more like 7 hours.

==============================================
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/58419-half-lifes.html#post711150

 

[B5150]

Let me clarify, if I miscommunicated my question. At a steady dose for several months, one has his injection on Monday, when is the best time to get his draw before his next Monday injection?

I am aware of half life and such, but wanted to be sure that my GP was following a proper injection:draw interval to prevent peak serums misleading steady state serums (if that makes sense).

 

[JanSz]

Let me clarify, if I miscommunicated my question. At a steady dose for several months, one has his injection on Monday, when is the best time to get his draw before his next Monday injection?

I am aware of half life and such, but wanted to be sure that my GP was following a proper injection:draw interval to prevent peak serums misleading steady state serums (if that makes sense).

My bet is on the middle day,ie;Thursday, probably Wed, Th, Fri also good.

 

[hardasnails1973]

Let me clarify, if I miscommunicated my question. At a steady dose for several months, one has his injection on Monday, when is the best time to get his draw before his next Monday injection?

I am aware of half life and such, but wanted to be sure that my GP was following a proper injection:draw interval to prevent peak serums misleading steady state serums (if that makes sense).

48 hours after your last injection the plasma should be at its peak and what it would be saying that after 5 weeks on continuous injects that Testosterone level should be consitant through out the whole week from there on, but since you been on a steady pattern 48 hours would be the optimal time by logic, but again DR John is the authoritive figure on this because they may be exception to the rules
Which one may not be aware of.

 

[KSman]

For weekly injections, try to get the blood draw 3.5 days after injecting. I have injected at an evening to allow for BW 3.5 days later.

Weekly injections do not create steady serum levels. "relatively stable serum levels" are not very steady and are a source of problems for some.

"Additionally, in what time frame after the cessation of an AI will my E2 levels be render unaltered? How long does it take to stop inhibiting the aromatization of the testosterone?"

If you are on AI and stop, E levels will increase, which will also increase SHBG over time, which will reduce free T (TF). This change of balance will take a while to occur and the effects of the E on T receptors in general, the brain and libido might take longer to play out.

I have no idea on why one would do this unless AI use is not known to your doctor.

 

[B5150]

For weekly injections, try to get the blood draw 3.5 days after injecting. I have injected at an evening to allow for BW 3.5 days later.

This was my understanding as well.

Weekly injections do not create steady serum levels. "relatively stable serum levels" are not very steady and are a source of problems for some.

I would tend to believe that the upper and lower limits are steady after several months. Hence my inquiry regarding ideal BW time frame after injection. One day after or five days after would probably still be a significant difference in test results.

"Additionally, in what time frame after the cessation of an AI will my E2 levels be render unaltered? How long does it take to stop inhibiting the aromatization of the testosterone?"

If you are on AI and stop, E levels will increase, which will also increase SHBG over time, which will reduce free T (TF). This change of balance will take a while to occur and the effects of the E on T receptors in general, the brain and libido might take longer to play out.

Thanks for the information.

 

[SoMdHunter]

Actually that is a pretty relavant question. I have my appoint with my Dr coming up in about 2.5 weeks and do my injections on a Thursday. My appoint is on a Fri. Certainly I don't want to do the BW the next day after an injection.

But to wait a full week, is that too long?

 

[KSman]

Actually that is a pretty relavant question. I have my appoint with my Dr coming up in about 2.5 weeks and do my injections on a Thursday. My appoint is on a Fri. Certainly I don't want to do the BW the next day after an injection.

But to wait a full week, is that too long?

My expectation is to get a lab order way ahead of the appointment, then go to the lab at a convenient time two weeks or more before your appointment. Then you see the doc and have lab results to discuss.

 

[JanSz]

I am aware of half life and such,

I came across this calculations

http://www.roidcalc.com/
they are based on:
A pharmacokinetic study of injectable testosterone undecanoate in hypogonadal men J Androl 1998 Nov-Dec;19(6):761-8
Schulte-Beerbuhl M et al., Comparison of testosterone, dihydrotestosterone, luteinizing hormone, and follicle-stimulating hormone in serum after injection of testosterone enanthate or testosterone cypionate. Fertility and Sterility (1980) 33.2 :

 

[SoMdHunter]

My expectation is to get a lab order way ahead of the appointment, then go to the lab at a convenient time two weeks or more before your appointment. Then you see the doc and have lab results to discuss.

Yeah, I plan on doing that. But I was wondering how long since my last injection should I then get the blood drawn?

 

[SoMdHunter]

I came across this calculations

http://www.roidcalc.com/
they are based on:
A pharmacokinetic study of injectable testosterone undecanoate in hypogonadal men J Androl 1998 Nov-Dec;19(6):761-8
Schulte-Beerbuhl M et al., Comparison of testosterone, dihydrotestosterone, luteinizing hormone, and follicle-stimulating hormone in serum after injection of testosterone enanthate or testosterone cypionate. Fertility and Sterility (1980) 33.2 :

Hmmm, I can't get that link to open for some reason.

 

[JanSz]

Hmmm, I can't get that link to open for some reason.

It works for me.