DIM vs AI

[dynomite]

you can skip to my question at the bottom if you dont care for my life story here lol.

I am not on TRT however I suspect my E2 levels are high and my libido is suffering because of this. I plan on asking my doctor for bloodwork when i go in for a check up in a few weeks. I will be glad to post my results on here when i get them. I already have had bloodwork done many times and my testosterone was in the normal range however not in the optimal range. The whole reason I was getting my test checked was because of extremely low libido. However my doctor failed to mention that estrogen could be the culprit for this even though i mentioned i thought my estrogen levels were high because of certain symptoms i have. If my suspicions are correct and my e2 is high i plan on treating this ASAP.

question
If i take the DIM does it effect my test levels in any way? And also is it possible to take an AI(to boost test levels a smidge) while on DIM to optimize hormone levels or is this not an option? Would the DIM even be beneficial if I am controlling the estrogen with an AI?

 

[hardasnails1973]

you can skip to my question at the bottom if you dont care for my life story here lol.

I am not on TRT however I suspect my E2 levels are high and my libido is suffering because of this. I plan on asking my doctor for bloodwork when i go in for a check up in a few weeks. I will be glad to post my results on here when i get them. I already have had bloodwork done many times and my testosterone was in the normal range however not in the optimal range. The whole reason I was getting my test checked was because of extremely low libido. However my doctor failed to mention that estrogen could be the culprit for this even though i mentioned i thought my estrogen levels were high because of certain symptoms i have. If my suspicions are correct and my e2 is high i plan on treating this ASAP.

question
If i take the DIM does it effect my test levels in any way? And also is it possible to take an AI(to boost test levels a smidge) while on DIM to optimize hormone levels or is this not an option? Would the DIM even be beneficial if I am controlling the estrogen with an AI?

I have not seen actually clincal studies done to show that DIM actually lowers estrodial, but it will help to alter the Good estrogen to bad estrogen and may increase your free levels. I still would like to see how on how converting the bad estrogen to good estrogen helps symptoms with excessive estrogen namely its not the estrodial that would be altered via blood. So for cancer prevention it is awesome but for estrogen reduction i still do not see how it works but it will give you erection from hell in the morning LOL

 

[dynomite]

hmmm i see. so maybe a good approach would be to balance your estrodial using the DIM and once you have achieved that you could use an AI to balance out your T and E. oes that sound to ambitious or am i on to something?

 

[hardasnails1973]

hmmm i see. so maybe a good approach would be to balance your estrodial using the DIM and once you have achieved that you could use an AI to balance out your T and E. oes that sound to ambitious or am i on to something?

Avena sativa would help to increase free test levels which are associated with erectile problems and by increasing free levels your estrogen should actually drop because testosterone would inhibit the receptors vs the estrodial.

Programmer poster this but people tend to not read it but does explain alot when you really research it
http://www.growyoungandslim.com/articles/Mens_Health_102a.pdf?PHPSESSID=97c655cd65989130d9bf5972cfea17c7

Research Page: Dietary Indole Effect on Estrogen Urinary Metabolites

 

[pmgamer18]

hmmm i see. so maybe a good approach would be to balance your estrodial using the DIM and once you have achieved that you could use an AI to balance out your T and E. oes that sound to ambitious or am i on to something?

Both Indolplex/DIM and Arimidex lowered my Estradiol levels on my blood work so on converts Estradiol into good E's so the liver can wash them out and Arimidex blocks the Estradiol.
If your not on TRT and your Estradiol levels are high and you take Indolplex/DIM or Arimidex to get it down your Total and Free Testosterone levels can go up 200 to 300 points.
Phil

 

[dynomite]

so you are saying that if i take DIM i wont be able to see a difference in E levels if i have bloodwork done but i would have to adjust dosage by how i "feel" as it swings the balance of bad E and good E in my favor.

so would it be extraneous to balance my estrogen with DIM and then take an AI to increase test?

my test levels are sub optimal but not low enough to have effected my libido this bad. I would like my test and estrogen to be in the optimal range, that is why i ask this question.

This all started a couple years ago when i did some prohormones.

 

[dynomite]

Both Indolplex/DIM and Arimidex lowered my Estradiol levels on my blood work so on converts Estradiol into good E's so the liver can wash them out and Arimidex blocks the Estradiol.
If your not on TRT and your Estradiol levels are high and you take Indolplex/DIM or Arimidex to get it down your Total and Free Testosterone levels can go up 200 to 300 points.
Phil

so DIM does raise test if you arent on TRT?!!!?

 

[dynomite]

dr john,

could you please peruse through post #7? i apreciate all your help, i am just trying to get a handle on my personal situation since most of the threads on this topic are about guys on TRT.

 

[hardasnails1973]

dr john,

could you please peruse through post #7? i apreciate all your help, i am just trying to get a handle on my personal situation since most of the threads on this topic are about guys on TRT.

This is a nice recap of DIM for you
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/post-cycle-therapy/36056-dim-estrogen-control.html

 

[hardasnails1973]

so you are saying that if i take DIM i wont be able to see a difference in E levels if i have bloodwork done but i would have to adjust dosage by how i "feel" as it swings the balance of bad E and good E in my favor.

so would it be extraneous to balance my estrogen with DIM and then take an AI to increase test?

my test levels are sub optimal but not low enough to have effected my libido this bad. I would like my test and estrogen to be in the optimal range, that is why i ask this question.

This all started a couple years ago when i did some prohormones.

That is every ones dream and Dr john has been the genie to make that come true for alot of people already.

 

[dynomite]

This is a nice recap of DIM for you
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/post-cycle-therapy/36056-dim-estrogen-control.html

thank you VERY much man. this is great info

 

[dynomite]

nevermind

 

[pmgamer18]

nevermind

Here are some links about T levels going up getting E2 down you will not know how this will help you unless you test your E2 and try this if you E2 is high and your T levels are low.
Medibolics
This link is about older men but some young men with high levels of E2 doing this may help.
Effects of Aromatase Inhibition in Elderly Men with Low or Borderline-Low Serum Testosterone Levels -- Leder et al. 89 (3): 1174 -- Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism

You don't do any SOY do you this can fill your cells with a type of E that the brain thinks is T and your levels will be low because your not getting the LH and FSh messages to make more T.
Soy is bad for men I talked to a guy that drank Soy Milk a lot of it and his T levels were low and his LH and FSH were low. I told him just stop the soy and see how you feel. He posted back in 4 weeks that his levels came back up and he got his sex life back.
Phil

 

[dynomite]

that is some good reading right there. i am on a mission to get back to normal. does anyone know of a good dr in the dallas area? does dr john have a recommendation in this city? i have been to many different drs about this. 2 uro, 1 endo, and 4 or 5 GP. granted most of the GPs were military. they dont give a damn. i need to find a dr. i even found a dr(sopposedly a specialist in low sex drive) using the sticky but that guy seemed incompetant too and just a shmuck. i would sign in and i would see the he would have 1 or 2 other appointments at the exact same time as mine. he would talk to me for no more than 2 minutes. this is the same guy that would not give me Estrogen tests. i need help. i am spending a mint going to all these doctors that dont know **** about my problem.

no i dont eat anything with soy in it that i know of. i do eat quite a bit of fat though. i am not a fat guy however. i am in damn good shape. at least i look like it.

i will post my most recent bloodwork in a couple hours. it doesnt have E on it since my doctor refused me that for some reason or another.

 

[hardasnails1973]

that is some good reading right there. i am on a mission to get back to normal. does anyone know of a good dr in the dallas area? does dr john have a recommendation in this city? i have been to many different drs about this. 2 uro, 1 endo, and 4 or 5 GP. granted most of the GPs were military. they dont give a damn. i need to find a dr. i even found a dr(sopposedly a specialist in low sex drive) using the sticky but that guy seemed incompetant too and just a shmuck. i would sign in and i would see the he would have 1 or 2 other appointments at the exact same time as mine. he would talk to me for no more than 2 minutes. this is the same guy that would not give me Estrogen tests. i need help. i am spending a mint going to all these doctors that dont know **** about my problem.

no i dont eat anything with soy in it that i know of. i do eat quite a bit of fat though. i am not a fat guy however. i am in damn good shape. at least i look like it.

i will post my most recent bloodwork in a couple hours. it doesnt have E on it since my doctor refused me that for some reason or another.

Do you Eat red meat. egg yolks or take essential fats because that is the base of hormone manufacturing good old cholesterol. Now if you have subliclincal hypothyroidism then you wil not be able to convert the cholesterol into needed homrones which usually results in low pregnenlone levels hence low steroids hormones as well. So eat that beef, Use slap some butter on, and crack some egg yolks because its just going to help you with hormone production. Now next question is that are you absorbing your fat. Eating it is one thing processing and absorbing it is another issue. Thats why I suggest hidden food allergies for alot of people with adrenal fatigue and estrogen imablances because one feeds the other. If your intestinal tract is irriated for what ever reason you may only be absorbing 30-40% of your food and putting your self into starvation mood. See drs need to think outside the box in looking food root cause rather then symptoms. Given example if intestinal tract is irritated say from a wheat sensitivity, your body puts a layer of mucous over your villi to product it from getting more inflammed this causes absorptio of other nutrients to be hampered. It may be fat, carbs, ect but dpends on the body it self, If you are not absorbing zinc because of this testosterone, thyroid, adrenals would be heavily impacted. Thats just only one mineral missing not mentioning the rest. Now if you are not absorbing fats then they just go rancid in your got turn into toxins and cause oxidative stress to an already depleted antioxident system and so the cycles begins of disease and organi malfunction. Majority of the time hormonal imbalnaces are nto the direct cause but rather a symptom of the cause it self, but by balancing the hormones it may actually ease the cause, but some times it can just mask it as well.

 

[pmgamer18]

that is some good reading right there. i am on a mission to get back to normal. does anyone know of a good dr in the dallas area? does dr john have a recommendation in this city? i have been to many different drs about this. 2 uro, 1 endo, and 4 or 5 GP. granted most of the GPs were military. they dont give a damn. i need to find a dr. i even found a dr(sopposedly a specialist in low sex drive) using the sticky but that guy seemed incompetant too and just a shmuck. i would sign in and i would see the he would have 1 or 2 other appointments at the exact same time as mine. he would talk to me for no more than 2 minutes. this is the same guy that would not give me Estrogen tests. i need help. i am spending a mint going to all these doctors that dont know **** about my problem.

no i dont eat anything with soy in it that i know of. i do eat quite a bit of fat though. i am not a fat guy however. i am in damn good shape. at least i look like it.

i will post my most recent bloodwork in a couple hours. it doesnt have E on it since my doctor refused me that for some reason or another.

We have 2 Dr.'s in are database at the H2 group not sure if your near them.
Danilo K. Asase MD FACE [email protected] 956-544-7833 844 Central Blvd 430 Brownsville Texas 78520 Professional Tower Brownsville Medical Center Adult & Pediatric Urology / Urologic Surgery www.UrologyChannel.com/AsaseMD

Willie Teo Ong MD FACE 956-548-0077 844 Central Blvd 370 Brownsville Texas 78520 Professional Tower Brownsville Medical Center Eudocrinology Diabetes Metabolism Internal Medicine 956-548-2312

Phil

 

[dynomite]

ill respond to that post in after this. e are my lab results

total test 438 reference 241-827

prolactin 11.6 reference 2.1-17.7

free test 15.6 reference 9.3-26.5

as you can see these hormones are not optimal but still well within the normal range. That is why i am suspecting my estrogen to be out of whack.

 

[dynomite]

We have 2 Dr.'s in are database at the H2 group not sure if your near them.
Danilo K. Asase MD FACE [email protected] 956-544-7833 844 Central Blvd 430 Brownsville Texas 78520 Professional Tower Brownsville Medical Center Adult & Pediatric Urology / Urologic Surgery www.UrologyChannel.com/AsaseMD

Willie Teo Ong MD FACE 956-548-0077 844 Central Blvd 370 Brownsville Texas 78520 Professional Tower Brownsville Medical Center Eudocrinology Diabetes Metabolism Internal Medicine 956-548-2312

Phil

thanks for the help but brownsville is about a nine hour drive from here. i might have to move there eventually if i cant get hel here in dallas lol

 

[dynomite]

Do you Eat red meat. egg yolks or take essential fats because that is the base of hormone manufacturing good old cholesterol. Now if you have subliclincal hypothyroidism then you wil not be able to convert the cholesterol into needed homrones which usually results in low pregnenlone levels hence low steroids hormones as well. So eat that beef, Use slap some butter on, and crack some egg yolks because its just going to help you with hormone production. Now next question is that are you absorbing your fat. Eating it is one thing processing and absorbing it is another issue. Thats why I suggest hidden food allergies for alot of people with adrenal fatigue and estrogen imablances because one feeds the other. If your intestinal tract is irriated for what ever reason you may only be absorbing 30-40% of your food and putting your self into starvation mood. See drs need to think outside the box in looking food root cause rather then symptoms. Given example if intestinal tract is irritated say from a wheat sensitivity, your body puts a layer of mucous over your villi to product it from getting more inflammed this causes absorptio of other nutrients to be hampered. It may be fat, carbs, ect but dpends on the body it self, If you are not absorbing zinc because of this testosterone, thyroid, adrenals would be heavily impacted. Thats just only one mineral missing not mentioning the rest. Now if you are not absorbing fats then they just go rancid in your got turn into toxins and cause oxidative stress to an already depleted antioxident system and so the cycles begins of disease and organi malfunction. Majority of the time hormonal imbalnaces are nto the direct cause but rather a symptom of the cause it self, but by balancing the hormones it may actually ease the cause, but some times it can just mask it as well.

i am not sure about the allergies but i dont think so. how would i know if i am not absorbing my nutrients because of this. would i be having loose stool. i think i am good in the regard. i do eat a butt load. i get bad fats but i also get lots of good fats. canola oil and olive oil and some fish oil.

 

[hardasnails1973]

i am not sure about the allergies but i dont think so. how would i know if i am not absorbing my nutrients because of this. would i be having loose stool. i think i am good in the regard. i do eat a butt load. i get bad fats but i also get lots of good fats. canola oil and olive oil and some fish oil.

Canola oil is bad unless its extra virgin or cold pressed reason for alot of disease is because of general population omega 3:6 ratio is like 1:15-30. Cooking oil at high heat causes fats to go rancid.

Health Warning / CANOLA OIL

O only cook with EVO and at low heat because that can also spoil at high temperature as well. EVO cocconut oil never goes bad and can be used with high heat as well as lard or real butter

 

[dynomite]

ill respond to that post in after this. e are my lab results

total test 438 reference 241-827

prolactin 11.6 reference 2.1-17.7

free test 15.6 reference 9.3-26.5

as you can see these hormones are not optimal but still well within the normal range. That is why i am suspecting my estrogen to be out of whack.

did you see this?

thanks for the info on conola