Take a look at my blood work
- 01-28-2007, 11:48 PM
Take a look at my blood work
On no supps or AAS at time of bloodwork. No history of AAS. Bloodwork done at Quest Diagnostics
Reference ranges in parenthesis
IGF-1 130 (126 - 382ng)
DHEA 520 (110 - 500)
T-4 FREE 1.5 (.8 - 1.8)
TSH 1.21 (.4 - 5.5)
ESTRADOIL 43 (10 - 50)
T3 FREE 317 (230 - 420)
TEST, TOTAL 490 (245 - 1836)
TEST FREE 18.9 (12 - 40)
TEST, %OF FREE .4 (.2 - .68)
- 01-28-2007, 11:51 PM
27 years old. Im concerned that both free/total test a little low, Estradoil way to high, IGF way to low for my age.
- 01-29-2007, 02:50 PM
Originally Posted by plymouth city
01-29-2007, 03:25 PM
Hey!Originally Posted by pmgamer18
Thanks for bring that up. Morning wood is non existent, has been gone for a couple years. I get DOMS, workout fatigue pretty easily. Libido has gone down a bit last couple years as well.
Other than that, I feel ok, not bad. A little brain fog here and there. Im in pretty good shape otherwise. 5'7, about 160, 8%BF.
I think the estradoil is killing the morning wood.
I think if my free/total test was a little bit higher, libido would be back strong.
And the DOMS/easily overtrained is from the low IGF.
Im doing some heavy, heavy TRT research. Im thinking arimidex EOD. hCG EOD. If I can get away without using test, that would be great. If not, no big deal.
HGH treatment would be ideal as well, but a little out of my price range (temporary, finishing up college, after that its a definite go)
Thanks Phil, any and all opinions welcome.
Its been a dam cold week here in Michigan. Good for the snowboarding, bad for everything else. First day on the slopes yesterday, legs are killing me today!
01-29-2007, 03:51 PM
Hay up north last night 12" of snow and in Rochester Hills MI. nothing. Anyway here is what I would do If I were you get some Indolplex/DIM Arimidex is to dam strong. Your not on TRT and If you use Arimidex you will got to low fast. You will miss the Zone. I say Zone because when you get morning wood back this is the Zone and I feel it's the best level for your E2.
PhytoPharmica Indolplex with DIM
Get this it is what worked for me I tried a lot of brands of DIM and nothing. Take only one Tablet at dinner most men get morning wood back is 4 to 7 days. Keep taking it but if wood stops stop the DIM until wood comes back then go back on it that day but cut the dose in half.
Also take some TMG at bed time this helps the liver wash out the E's that the DIM converts E2 into.
49% OffTMG Trimethylglycine 750mg 120 caps,Source Naturals - 49% Off Source Naturals T
Also get some Zinc/Copper.
Solaray Zinc & Copper 100 capsules, Solaray - Solaray Multiple Minerals 50% Off
Getting your E2 down can make your TT go up 200 to 300 on a test and your free T will come up also.
You don't do a lot of SOY in your diet do you is so stop.
Originally Posted by plymouth city
01-29-2007, 04:16 PM
Originally Posted by pmgamer18
i think the most important indicator for mornig woud is controlling e2 and detoxifying the excessive estrogen via liver pathways. Adding folininc acid/ methy coblalin will also open up another pathway for detoxification as well doing all this will also raise up your free test levels which phil states is most crucial. If you increase free T one might be lucky to help drive E2 down. Removing excess estrogen will relieve burden off liver and open up for more t4 to t3 conversion, and also take stress off adrrenals and in time you might get lucky and balance out your endocrine system. So you see how controlling liver detoxification pathways are actually core into obtaining proper hormone balance along with ofc course other factors of lifestlye and stress mamageing ment. Why i tell people to ask dr for metafolin because it covered by insurance and is a natureal supplement that will help balance all liver pathways, just add 50 mgs P5P with 500 mgs TMG BID and you got it all in nice little combination.
01-30-2007, 01:54 AM
No, Im not on any HRT stuff YET. If Crisler ok's things, I will be.
Thanks for the ideas though. Im not familar with alot of those things you mentioned, but I will be after tonight trust me.
Originally Posted by pmgamer18
01-30-2007, 07:41 AM
Yep phils is right about that DIM and TMG 2 days on it and mr winky was happy in the morning 1 day off it and mr Winky was not so happy this morning and getting horrible migraine headaches, and boobs hurting like crazy. Can you have a bad rebound like that from not taking DIM?Originally Posted by plymouth city
01-30-2007, 08:53 AM
- Join Date
- Dec 2005
- 80's - 3AM eternally raving at "the fish"
- Rep Power
01-30-2007, 09:18 AM
honestly your blood work doesnt look too bad.
if i were you i would try some simple hormone optimizers and see how i responded.
im a bit partial to 6-oxo but there are a ton of supplemental aromatase inhibitors out there.
stay away from rebound xt, reboundt reloaded, novadex xt...they all have ATD in them and too many people get too many weird side effects coming off of it for my taste.
Try these 3 simple supplements:
Tribulus- for libido and minor hormone optimization
6-oxo- aromatase inhibitor (to lower estrogen) and very decent testosterone booster
ZMA- aids in testosterone production
that should bump up the testosterone by 300 ng/dl or so after a few weeks and half your estrogen. i also just heart tribulus libidowise.
01-30-2007, 10:30 AM
Dr john will taking the DIM skew the blood test results in any specific way? Since I got positive results off of it I tihnk my ability to metabolize estrogen is reduced for some reason.
Do you think alteranting cream applicatin sites might reduce the chance of getting resistant to testosterone if that is possible. Could applying it repeatedly to one or 2 areas cause your body to become immune to it?
01-30-2007, 11:46 AM
There is no ATD in Rebound Reloaded that I am aware of. It's 6-Bromoandrostenedione & white button mushroom extract. I have not used RR, but I've used ALRI's Restore, and liked it very much, as it lacked the sides I got from ATD. Restore uses 6-Bromo as it's AI.Originally Posted by jomi822
01-30-2007, 12:45 PM
I take ZMA. Been taking it for years. I love it. Sleep great on it.Originally Posted by jomi822
I also take a very potent fish oil/cla supplement. 3 grams EPA/DHA.
I also take Resveratrol. 100mg per day. Don't really know if the whole resveratrol thing will pan out. Its looks great on mice, but nothing so far as humans go. We'll see. But I don't mind experimnenting with that dose, it doesn't cost much, about 50 cents per day.
Ive tried test boosters in the past. The problem with them is that they usually are very expensive. A high quality tribilus supp and a good herbal AI would run about 75 per month, and results are usually not all that great.
However with HRT supplies, they are dirt cheap. I can get 60 WEEKS worth of arimidex for 50 bucks And test for next to nothing - Test cyp 10ml l@ 200mg/ml $42
HCG 10,000 IU $16.26
100 #29 insulin needles $12
100 #23 3ml 1.5" needles $18
Costs are an issue - Im a broke college student. So we'll see.
01-30-2007, 12:51 PM
Forgot to mention - I also take creatine as well. And micellular protein powder. I do avoid soy like the plague - which is a bummer because i love salad dressings and it seems soybean oil is in every one I look for.
01-30-2007, 12:55 PM
01-30-2007, 12:55 PM
Anyone got a link for some info about this DIM stuff everyone here talks about?
01-30-2007, 03:21 PM
01-30-2007, 03:47 PM
01-30-2007, 03:59 PM
02-03-2007, 08:12 AM
02-03-2007, 11:49 AM
I wonder how many people have a DHEA level higher than a total test level(like me, LOL)?
02-03-2007, 11:52 AM
Could constant application to a particular spot cause excessive testosterone resevoir to build up and possible elevated estrogen levels? Just a theory
02-03-2007, 11:55 AM
02-04-2007, 01:33 AM
Yea I think estradoil is killing my hormonal profile from every standpoint. I wish my IGF was alot higher as well.
And here is the scary part - my estradoil is that level WITH an extremely strict, clean lifestyle and diet. Hell I have a 4 pack, and probably could have a 6 If I had more energy to hit the gym. BF % is really good for my age. And Ive completely given up drinking/smoking. I shudder to think what it would be if I wasn't so lean and dieting/exercising, like any other normal guy my age. Not many people in my circle of friends that eat 10 servings or more of fruits/veggies a day and stick to a clean diet/lifestyle the way I do.
I do remember that as a pre teen and early teenager, having issues with my nipples being sore. Never got any gyno though because I was always so lean and active - thank god I always was. So i think I might have always had an estradoil issue. Hard to say.
Thanks everyone for your input.
02-04-2007, 01:35 AM
02-04-2007, 07:31 AM
02-04-2007, 09:51 AM
Testosterone, LC/MS/MS from Quest Diagnostics
Free, Bioavailable, and Total Testosterone
Just looking at present tests:
Rasie FreeT3 to about 3.8, or 380
For 160# body weight, use two pills for 3-4 days then taper to one pill daily of
Dual-Action Cruciferous Vegetable Extract With Resveratrol & Cat's Claw, 60 Vegetarian Capsules
Do not use Arimidex.
Use TMG with above.
Do not use HCG that you just purchased, just not yet.
Do not do HCG before you get baseline (LH, FSH, Prolactin, what not)
You most likely have a GH in your future.
Keep us posted of your Dr findings.
I am not a doctor, but I dance with doctors.
02-04-2007, 10:34 AM
02-04-2007, 01:20 PM
Pending will not cut it. Seeing you is for legal reasons, only or 99% only, he works mostly from numbers, and interview that could be done over internet.
I am guessing that those tests are somewhat more detailed than those hi posted on his web site.
I am sure that it is good idea to be in a "steady state" before blood draw.
To get to a "steady state" you most likely have to be on un-changed whatewer you do for at least month to 6 weeks.
Please post on your experience.
02-04-2007, 03:00 PM
02-04-2007, 03:34 PM
Actually if I post information from her here, some may benefit.
My name is Kim and I am Dr. Crisler’s Executive Assistant. In order for Dr. Crisler to dispense medical advice for treatment you must be a part of our practice. I would be happy to answer all of the questions that I can for you about becoming a patient with us.
There are two methods with which you may become a part of our practice. You may schedule an appointment with us if you are local.
You may also schedule a day trip, which many of our patients from out of state prefer. We keep our mid-day appointments open for these occasions. You can fly into our airport, which is only 15 minutes from our office. We will arrange for a cab company (that will give you a discounted rate) to have a driver there at your time of ar*****.
To expedite your time in the waiting room, you can visit our website at AllThingsMale.com and go to Online Forms. Print and fill out the Medical History form and the Consent to Treat form and forward them to us via fax or mail. You may bring them with you as well. The Consultation takes between 1 and 1 1/2 hour, and the cost is $300.
The lab requisition form will go with you and may be done at your lab of choice. The prescription(s) may be filled at the pharmacies that we use or may also go with you to your pharmacy of choice.
Follow up care will be scheduled accordingly, the cost of an office visit is $50.
Follow up care may be done virtually for those of you from out of town/state with Virtual Office Visits (VOV’s)to discuss your lab results, and treatment regimen. Payment for a VOV is $50 as well, and may be taken care of via order form (found on the website under online forms) or telephone. We accept Mastercard and Visa or a check if you prefer.
In order to treat you virtually without an in house initial consultation, Dr. Crisler will need to go through your primary care physician. This can be done by having your doctor call and confer with Dr. Crisler about your situation. If your doctor is willing, you could perhaps set up a conference call so that you could be a part of the initial consultation. All conversations, recommendations, labs etc. would be copied to you. Once you have a primary care physician to work with us, you may go ahead and fill out the Medical History form and the Consent to Treat form and forward these two forms so that we may start a file for you here. You will also need to fill out and forward the online order form for the $300 Consultation fee. All labs and prescriptions will have to be written by your primary care doctor per Dr. Crisler's recommendations. Follow up care from Dr. Crisler will be charged as an office visit the cost of $50 per consult.
Preliminary labwork need not be done. Dr. Crisler has his own set of labs tailored to your specific needs. However, any records that you feel are pertinent to your current health may be forwarded, or brought with you.
As far as insurance coverage goes, we do not accept insurance here in the office for Dr. Crisler’s services. We do provide you with a receipt that you may submit to your insurance company. Most of our patients report that their labwork and prescriptions are covered, depending on their individual coverage and provider.
If you have any further questions, feel free to contact me at Kim@AllThingsMale.com, or phone the office (517)485-4424. Have a great afternoon, Kim
02-05-2007, 02:15 PM
02-05-2007, 03:59 PM
I will follow up with everything and all experiences here. Thank you all for your imput, I feel extremely, extremely blessed and lucky that this board exists, I have a great doctor and lots of very intelligent people that I have learned from immensly. Big kudus to ksman, who has been helping me for months now.
02-08-2007, 11:38 PM
02-09-2007, 12:50 AM
I found this from Stop The Thyroid Madness » Long and Pathetic list of Hypothyroid Symptoms. Ive been researching the thyroid gland and t3 all night. Whew, even more cool stuff to learn. One thing Ive noted is about the cold hands/feet. Yea thats me. Maybe its just the way I am?
02-09-2007, 09:35 AM
02-09-2007, 09:36 AM
02-09-2007, 11:59 AM
02-09-2007, 01:05 PM
Sound like a game plan. number one rule REMOVE THE TRIGGERS FIRST THE SOURCE and then go from there. You need to look at it like a water fall you have to deal with the crap up top first before it gets to the bottom (which most drs do) not vice versa. Body has an amaxing way of rebalancing it self if given proper nutrients and remove what could be causeing the source of the problem
03-07-2007, 01:57 PM
Just got back from the urologist. I went in for a thorough, and I mean thorough examination. Maybe a little too thorough for my liking
I wanted to rule out any existing health issues and make sure I was 100 percent, and nothing extrernally/physical was going on. With all this talk about varicocles and such, I wanted to make sure. Doctor checked everything. Complete testical exam as well. Everything great. Checked my prostate. Said it was excellent. I must say, I was VERY impressed with his knowledge. He definitely knew his stuff. He also complemented me on the fact he was very impressed of my knowledge of the endocrine system .
He asked about morning erections and was troubled by the fact I don't get any. He sent me in to get my Free, Total T checked, along with FSH, LH and prolactin. He seen my prior blodwork above. I should have asked to let him allow me to get my SHBG checked. Forgot to. Dammit.
Along with all the other bloodwork I have, this complete checkup with the urologist, I should have a nice collection of data before I see Dr John.
All in all, this doctor spent a lengthy amount of time and was the nicest, most thorough MD Ive ever spoken too. And knew his stuff. There was lots of pictures of athletes/teams on the wall, that i think he may have treated. Gives me hope there are still good MD's out there.
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