Take a look at my blood work

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  1. Take a look at my blood work


    On no supps or AAS at time of bloodwork. No history of AAS. Bloodwork done at Quest Diagnostics

    Reference ranges in parenthesis

    IGF-1 130 (126 - 382ng)

    DHEA 520 (110 - 500)

    T-4 FREE 1.5 (.8 - 1.8)

    TSH 1.21 (.4 - 5.5)

    ESTRADOIL 43 (10 - 50)

    PSA .3

    T3 FREE 317 (230 - 420)

    TEST, TOTAL 490 (245 - 1836)

    TEST FREE 18.9 (12 - 40)

    TEST, %OF FREE .4 (.2 - .68)


  2. 27 years old. Im concerned that both free/total test a little low, Estradoil way to high, IGF way to low for my age.
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by plymouth city
    27 years old. Im concerned that both free/total test a little low, Estradoil way to high, IGF way to low for my age.
    Do tell how do you feel morning wood any fatigue and so on.
    Phil

  4. Quote Originally Posted by pmgamer18
    Do tell how do you feel morning wood any fatigue and so on.
    Phil
    Hey!
    Thanks for bring that up. Morning wood is non existent, has been gone for a couple years. I get DOMS, workout fatigue pretty easily. Libido has gone down a bit last couple years as well.

    Other than that, I feel ok, not bad. A little brain fog here and there. Im in pretty good shape otherwise. 5'7, about 160, 8%BF.

    I think the estradoil is killing the morning wood.

    I think if my free/total test was a little bit higher, libido would be back strong.

    And the DOMS/easily overtrained is from the low IGF.

    Im doing some heavy, heavy TRT research. Im thinking arimidex EOD. hCG EOD. If I can get away without using test, that would be great. If not, no big deal.

    HGH treatment would be ideal as well, but a little out of my price range (temporary, finishing up college, after that its a definite go)

    Thanks Phil, any and all opinions welcome.

    Its been a dam cold week here in Michigan. Good for the snowboarding, bad for everything else. First day on the slopes yesterday, legs are killing me today!

  5. Hay up north last night 12" of snow and in Rochester Hills MI. nothing. Anyway here is what I would do If I were you get some Indolplex/DIM Arimidex is to dam strong. Your not on TRT and If you use Arimidex you will got to low fast. You will miss the Zone. I say Zone because when you get morning wood back this is the Zone and I feel it's the best level for your E2.
    PhytoPharmica Indolplex with DIM
    Get this it is what worked for me I tried a lot of brands of DIM and nothing. Take only one Tablet at dinner most men get morning wood back is 4 to 7 days. Keep taking it but if wood stops stop the DIM until wood comes back then go back on it that day but cut the dose in half.

    Also take some TMG at bed time this helps the liver wash out the E's that the DIM converts E2 into.
    49% OffTMG Trimethylglycine 750mg 120 caps,Source Naturals - 49% Off Source Naturals T

    Also get some Zinc/Copper.
    Solaray Zinc & Copper 100 capsules, Solaray - Solaray Multiple Minerals 50% Off

    Getting your E2 down can make your TT go up 200 to 300 on a test and your free T will come up also.

    You don't do a lot of SOY in your diet do you is so stop.
    Phil
    Quote Originally Posted by plymouth city
    Hey!
    Thanks for bring that up. Morning wood is non existent, has been gone for a couple years. I get DOMS, workout fatigue pretty easily. Libido has gone down a bit last couple years as well.

    Other than that, I feel ok, not bad. A little brain fog here and there. Im in pretty good shape otherwise. 5'7, about 160, 8%BF.

    I think the estradoil is killing the morning wood.

    I think if my free/total test was a little bit higher, libido would be back strong.

    And the DOMS/easily overtrained is from the low IGF.

    Im doing some heavy, heavy TRT research. Im thinking arimidex EOD. hCG EOD. If I can get away without using test, that would be great. If not, no big deal.

    HGH treatment would be ideal as well, but a little out of my price range (temporary, finishing up college, after that its a definite go)

    Thanks Phil, any and all opinions welcome.

    Its been a dam cold week here in Michigan. Good for the snowboarding, bad for everything else. First day on the slopes yesterday, legs are killing me today!

  6. Quote Originally Posted by pmgamer18
    Hay up north last night 12" of snow and in Rochester Hills MI. nothing. Anyway here is what I would do If I were you get some Indolplex/DIM Arimidex is to dam strong. Your not on TRT and If you use Arimidex you will got to low fast. You will miss the Zone. I say Zone because when you get morning wood back this is the Zone and I feel it's the best level for your E2.
    PhytoPharmica Indolplex with DIM
    Get this it is what worked for me I tried a lot of brands of DIM and nothing. Take only one Tablet at dinner most men get morning wood back is 4 to 7 days. Keep taking it but if wood stops stop the DIM until wood comes back then go back on it that day but cut the dose in half.

    Also take some TMG at bed time this helps the liver wash out the E's that the DIM converts E2 into.
    49% OffTMG Trimethylglycine 750mg 120 caps,Source Naturals - 49% Off Source Naturals T

    Also get some Zinc/Copper.
    Solaray Zinc & Copper 100 capsules, Solaray - Solaray Multiple Minerals 50% Off

    Getting your E2 down can make your TT go up 200 to 300 on a test and your free T will come up also.

    You don't do a lot of SOY in your diet do you is so stop.
    Phil

    i think the most important indicator for mornig woud is controlling e2 and detoxifying the excessive estrogen via liver pathways. Adding folininc acid/ methy coblalin will also open up another pathway for detoxification as well doing all this will also raise up your free test levels which phil states is most crucial. If you increase free T one might be lucky to help drive E2 down. Removing excess estrogen will relieve burden off liver and open up for more t4 to t3 conversion, and also take stress off adrrenals and in time you might get lucky and balance out your endocrine system. So you see how controlling liver detoxification pathways are actually core into obtaining proper hormone balance along with ofc course other factors of lifestlye and stress mamageing ment. Why i tell people to ask dr for metafolin because it covered by insurance and is a natureal supplement that will help balance all liver pathways, just add 50 mgs P5P with 500 mgs TMG BID and you got it all in nice little combination.

  7. No, Im not on any HRT stuff YET. If Crisler ok's things, I will be.

    Thanks for the ideas though. Im not familar with alot of those things you mentioned, but I will be after tonight trust me.

    Quote Originally Posted by pmgamer18
    Hay up north last night 12" of snow and in Rochester Hills MI. nothing. Anyway here is what I would do If I were you get some Indolplex/DIM Arimidex is to dam strong. Your not on TRT and If you use Arimidex you will got to low fast. You will miss the Zone. I say Zone because when you get morning wood back this is the Zone and I feel it's the best level for your E2.
    PhytoPharmica Indolplex with DIM
    Get this it is what worked for me I tried a lot of brands of DIM and nothing. Take only one Tablet at dinner most men get morning wood back is 4 to 7 days. Keep taking it but if wood stops stop the DIM until wood comes back then go back on it that day but cut the dose in half.

    Also take some TMG at bed time this helps the liver wash out the E's that the DIM converts E2 into.
    49% OffTMG Trimethylglycine 750mg 120 caps,Source Naturals - 49% Off Source Naturals T

    Also get some Zinc/Copper.
    Solaray Zinc & Copper 100 capsules, Solaray - Solaray Multiple Minerals 50% Off

    Getting your E2 down can make your TT go up 200 to 300 on a test and your free T will come up also.

    You don't do a lot of SOY in your diet do you is so stop.
    Phil

  8. Quote Originally Posted by plymouth city
    No, Im not on any HRT stuff YET. If Crisler ok's things, I will be.

    Thanks for the ideas though. Im not familar with alot of those things you mentioned, but I will be after tonight trust me.
    Yep phils is right about that DIM and TMG 2 days on it and mr winky was happy in the morning 1 day off it and mr Winky was not so happy this morning and getting horrible migraine headaches, and boobs hurting like crazy. Can you have a bad rebound like that from not taking DIM?

  9. Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973
    i think the most important indicator for mornig woud is controlling e2 and detoxifying the excessive estrogen via liver pathways. Adding folininc acid/ methy coblalin will also open up another pathway for detoxification as well doing all this will also raise up your free test levels which phil states is most crucial. If you increase free T one might be lucky to help drive E2 down. Removing excess estrogen will relieve burden off liver and open up for more t4 to t3 conversion, and also take stress off adrrenals and in time you might get lucky and balance out your endocrine system. So you see how controlling liver detoxification pathways are actually core into obtaining proper hormone balance along with ofc course other factors of lifestlye and stress mamageing ment. Why i tell people to ask dr for metafolin because it covered by insurance and is a natureal supplement that will help balance all liver pathways, just add 50 mgs P5P with 500 mgs TMG BID and you got it all in nice little combination.
    http://www.metafolin.com/pdfs/About%...duct_13.12.pdf

    Is this what you're talking about? What does 50mgs P5P mean?

    Thanks.

  10. honestly your blood work doesnt look too bad.

    if i were you i would try some simple hormone optimizers and see how i responded.

    im a bit partial to 6-oxo but there are a ton of supplemental aromatase inhibitors out there.

    stay away from rebound xt, reboundt reloaded, novadex xt...they all have ATD in them and too many people get too many weird side effects coming off of it for my taste.

    Try these 3 simple supplements:
    Tribulus- for libido and minor hormone optimization
    6-oxo- aromatase inhibitor (to lower estrogen) and very decent testosterone booster
    ZMA- aids in testosterone production

    that should bump up the testosterone by 300 ng/dl or so after a few weeks and half your estrogen. i also just heart tribulus libidowise.
    •   
       


  11. Dr john will taking the DIM skew the blood test results in any specific way? Since I got positive results off of it I tihnk my ability to metabolize estrogen is reduced for some reason.

    Do you think alteranting cream applicatin sites might reduce the chance of getting resistant to testosterone if that is possible. Could applying it repeatedly to one or 2 areas cause your body to become immune to it?

  12. Quote Originally Posted by jomi822
    stay away from rebound xt, reboundt reloaded, novadex xt...they all have ATD in them and too many people get too many weird side effects coming off of it for my taste..
    There is no ATD in Rebound Reloaded that I am aware of. It's 6-Bromoandrostenedione & white button mushroom extract. I have not used RR, but I've used ALRI's Restore, and liked it very much, as it lacked the sides I got from ATD. Restore uses 6-Bromo as it's AI.

  13. Quote Originally Posted by jomi822
    honestly your blood work doesnt look too bad.

    if i were you i would try some simple hormone optimizers and see how i responded.

    im a bit partial to 6-oxo but there are a ton of supplemental aromatase inhibitors out there.

    stay away from rebound xt, reboundt reloaded, novadex xt...they all have ATD in them and too many people get too many weird side effects coming off of it for my taste.

    Try these 3 simple supplements:
    Tribulus- for libido and minor hormone optimization
    6-oxo- aromatase inhibitor (to lower estrogen) and very decent testosterone booster
    ZMA- aids in testosterone production

    that should bump up the testosterone by 300 ng/dl or so after a few weeks and half your estrogen. i also just heart tribulus libidowise.
    I take ZMA. Been taking it for years. I love it. Sleep great on it.

    I also take a very potent fish oil/cla supplement. 3 grams EPA/DHA.

    I also take Resveratrol. 100mg per day. Don't really know if the whole resveratrol thing will pan out. Its looks great on mice, but nothing so far as humans go. We'll see. But I don't mind experimnenting with that dose, it doesn't cost much, about 50 cents per day.

    Ive tried test boosters in the past. The problem with them is that they usually are very expensive. A high quality tribilus supp and a good herbal AI would run about 75 per month, and results are usually not all that great.

    However with HRT supplies, they are dirt cheap. I can get 60 WEEKS worth of arimidex for 50 bucks And test for next to nothing - Test cyp 10ml l@ 200mg/ml $42
    HCG 10,000 IU $16.26
    100 #29 insulin needles $12
    100 #23 3ml 1.5" needles $18

    Costs are an issue - Im a broke college student. So we'll see.

  14. Forgot to mention - I also take creatine as well. And micellular protein powder. I do avoid soy like the plague - which is a bummer because i love salad dressings and it seems soybean oil is in every one I look for.

  15. double post

  16. Anyone got a link for some info about this DIM stuff everyone here talks about?

  17. Scroll up and hit the link..

  18. Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973 View Post
    Scroll up and hit the link..
    Sweet, thanks!

  19. Quote Originally Posted by plymouth city View Post
    Sweet, thanks!
    i hope JaSz does not dance as bad as that guy does SHESH

  20. Quote Originally Posted by plymouth city View Post
    I take ZMA. Been taking it for years. I love it. Sleep great on it.

    I also take a very potent fish oil/cla supplement. 3 grams EPA/DHA.

    I also take Resveratrol. 100mg per day. Don't really know if the whole resveratrol thing will pan out. Its looks great on mice, but nothing so far as humans go. We'll see. But I don't mind experimnenting with that dose, it doesn't cost much, about 50 cents per day.

    Ive tried test boosters in the past. The problem with them is that they usually are very expensive. A high quality tribilus supp and a good herbal AI would run about 75 per month, and results are usually not all that great.

    However with HRT supplies, they are dirt cheap. I can get 60 WEEKS worth of arimidex for 50 bucks And test for next to nothing - Test cyp 10ml l@ 200mg/ml $42
    HCG 10,000 IU $16.26
    100 #29 insulin needles $12
    100 #23 3ml 1.5" needles $18

    Costs are an issue - Im a broke college student. So we'll see.
    I am price shopping, if you cannot post here, may be on the other board or PM there.

  21. Quote Originally Posted by Dr. John View Post
    I don't want new patients doing anything prior to my evaluation which modifies hormone levels. Ripples take months to even out.
    Good point Dr Crisler, Im hanging tight till I see you. I am thankful for everyones information and help though, I might just need it in the future and its helped me immensly for personal research and information.

    I wonder how many people have a DHEA level higher than a total test level(like me, LOL)?

  22. Quote Originally Posted by Dr. John View Post
    I don't want new patients doing anything prior to my evaluation which modifies hormone levels. Ripples take months to even out.
    Ok I just started DIM about 2-3 days ago. SO I will stop and let it flush out of my system. Only thing i have been on was the testocreme 10% is all which was prescribed by a medical dr, but i was applying it to the fore arms alot and .No hcg No dhea, No armidex for 10 weeks,

    Could constant application to a particular spot cause excessive testosterone resevoir to build up and possible elevated estrogen levels? Just a theory

  23. Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    I am price shopping, if you cannot post here, may be on the other board or PM there.
    Turn your accept PM's in your edit profile, and PM me.

  24. Quote Originally Posted by pmgamer18 View Post

    Getting your E2 down can make your TT go up 200 to 300 on a test and your free T will come up also.

    .
    Phil
    Hey Phil,
    Yea I think estradoil is killing my hormonal profile from every standpoint. I wish my IGF was alot higher as well.

    And here is the scary part - my estradoil is that level WITH an extremely strict, clean lifestyle and diet. Hell I have a 4 pack, and probably could have a 6 If I had more energy to hit the gym. BF % is really good for my age. And Ive completely given up drinking/smoking. I shudder to think what it would be if I wasn't so lean and dieting/exercising, like any other normal guy my age. Not many people in my circle of friends that eat 10 servings or more of fruits/veggies a day and stick to a clean diet/lifestyle the way I do.

    I do remember that as a pre teen and early teenager, having issues with my nipples being sore. Never got any gyno though because I was always so lean and active - thank god I always was. So i think I might have always had an estradoil issue. Hard to say.

    Thanks everyone for your input.

  25. Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973 View Post
    Ok I just started DIM about 2-3 days ago. SO I will stop and let it flush out of my system. Only thing i have been on was the testocreme 10% is all which was prescribed by a medical dr, but i was applying it to the fore arms alot and .No hcg No dhea, No armidex for 10 weeks,

    Could constant application to a particular spot cause excessive testosterone resevoir to build up and possible elevated estrogen levels? Just a theory
    Im curious about that as well - I do know that T converts to E in bodyfat. Probably even more of a reason to stay lean and keep the arm/shoulder flab non existent if your rubbing T in.

  26. Quote Originally Posted by plymouth city View Post
    Im curious about that as well - I do know that T converts to E in bodyfat. Probably even more of a reason to stay lean and keep the arm/shoulder flab non existent if your rubbing T in.
    I belive that constant application to either fore arm and not rotating sites was my biggest error and from alteranating sites i have found that i am pissing alot better and less irritable and erections are stronger then ever and won't stop, more aggression and desire, GF notice could not reconize me on the phone voice is changing, my breathing has also improved as well. I seem to think by not rotating sites with cream that a resevoir builds up of testosterone and you either because testosterone resistant or it just converts to excessive estrogen which we all want to avoid that for sure. Its been almost 2 weeks since I started to rotating sites and I do fee alot better and I beleive by continue this method I will not have to take any either and save a crap load of money and less drugs in my system.

  27. Quote Originally Posted by plymouth city View Post
    On no supps or anabolic steroids at time of bloodwork. No history of anabolic steroids. Bloodwork done at Quest Diagnostics

    Reference ranges in parenthesis

    IGF-1 130 (126 - 382ng)

    DHEA 520 (110 - 500)

    T-4 FREE 1.5 (.8 - 1.8)

    TSH 1.21 (.4 - 5.5)

    ESTRADOIL 43 (10 - 50)

    PSA .3

    T3 FREE 317 (230 - 420)

    TEST, TOTAL 490 (245 - 1836)

    TEST FREE 18.9 (12 - 40)

    TEST, %OF FREE .4 (.2 - .68)
    I would start with few more tests, DHT, SHBG, Albumin, or if you can
    Testosterone, LC/MS/MS from Quest Diagnostics

    Free, Bioavailable, and Total Testosterone
    -------
    Just looking at present tests:
    Rasie FreeT3 to about 3.8, or 380
    For 160# body weight, use two pills for 3-4 days then taper to one pill daily of
    Dual-Action Cruciferous Vegetable Extract With Resveratrol & Cat's Claw, 60 Vegetarian Capsules
    Do not use Arimidex.
    Use TMG with above.
    Do not use HCG that you just purchased, just not yet.
    Do not do HCG before you get baseline (LH, FSH, Prolactin, what not)
    You most likely have a GH in your future.
    Keep us posted of your Dr findings.
    I am not a doctor, but I dance with doctors.

  28. Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    I would start with few more tests, DHT, SHBG, Albumin, or if you can
    Testosterone, LC/MS/MS from Quest Diagnostics

    Free, Bioavailable, and Total Testosterone
    -------
    Just looking at present tests:
    Rasie FreeT3 to about 3.8, or 380
    For 160# body weight, use two pills for 3-4 days then taper to one pill daily of
    Dual-Action Cruciferous Vegetable Extract With Resveratrol & Cat's Claw, 60 Vegetarian Capsules
    Do not use Arimidex.
    Use TMG with above.
    Do not use HCG that you just purchased, just not yet.
    Do not do HCG before you get baseline (LH, FSH, Prolactin, what not)
    You most likely have a GH in your future.
    Keep us posted of your Dr findings.
    I am not a doctor, but I dance with doctors.

    They(Quest) tested for DHT. It says its "Pending" on my bloodwork papers...whatever that means.

    Yea GH is inevitable. Im excited to see how I respond to higher levels.

    Im seeing Dr Crisler this month.

    Yea I don't think they checked for LH, FSH, Prolactin.

  29. Quote Originally Posted by plymouth city View Post
    They(Quest) tested for DHT. It says its "Pending" on my bloodwork papers...whatever that means.

    Yea GH is inevitable. Im excited to see how I respond to higher levels.

    Im seeing Dr Crisler this month.

    Yea I don't think they checked for LH, FSH, Prolactin.
    Before you can see Dr Crisler you should have (extensive) tests, that he most likely requires, in your hands.
    Pending will not cut it. Seeing you is for legal reasons, only or 99% only, he works mostly from numbers, and interview that could be done over internet.
    I am guessing that those tests are somewhat more detailed than those hi posted on his web site.
    I am sure that it is good idea to be in a "steady state" before blood draw.
    To get to a "steady state" you most likely have to be on un-changed whatewer you do for at least month to 6 weeks.

    Please post on your experience.

  30. Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    Before you can see Dr Crisler you should have (extensive) tests, that he most likely requires, in your hands.
    Pending will not cut it. Seeing you is for legal reasons, only or 99% only, he works mostly from numbers, and interview that could be done over internet.
    I am guessing that those tests are somewhat more detailed than those hi posted on his web site.
    I am sure that it is good idea to be in a "steady state" before blood draw.
    To get to a "steady state" you most likely have to be on un-changed whatewer you do for at least month to 6 weeks.

    Please post on your experience.
    Yea will do, Im going to use this thread as reference to everything I do.

    Im back on ZMA/Fish Oil/Resveratrol. I don't believe they will skewer my tests if i have to get more done soon. Either way, I can always drop them a couple weeks prior.
  

  
 

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