E2 question, Test Cyp Results, do I Need Arimidex? Pharm Won't Give It... - AnabolicMinds.com

E2 question, Test Cyp Results, do I Need Arimidex? Pharm Won't Give It...

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  1. Maestro
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    E2 question, Test Cyp Results, do I Need Arimidex? UPDATE - E2 Halved, Other #'s OK?


    Been on HRT for the past 3 or so months.

    Androgel at 5g, test actually dropped.

    Test Cyp at .5ml once a week gave me a trough reading of 338 ng/dl total test, 2.23% free so the Endo told me to up my injections to .75 ml.

    At .75ml once a week and a peak draw gave me a 830 ng/dl total test, 2.09 free.

    SHBG unknown until the recent .75ml peak draw, came out to 25nmol/L which is mid-range (5-49).

    Estradiol came out above normal parameters (13-54) at 60 pg.ml. Is this the same thing as E2 and/or Estrogen. I can't seem to find anything here that clearly explains this.

    Should I go ahead with .25 mg arimidex every 3 days or do I need to take anything else into consideration?

    My endo is admittedly clueless on HRT and is pretty much letting me run the show, albeit slowly. I rely on this site and Dr. John's papers for my information. I asked my endo to write me a script for the .25 mg arimidex and 250 iu HCG every 3 days but am thinking of holding off on starting these two items until next week's trough blood test.

    By the way, the local Rite-Aid refused to give me the arimidex, stating that it was not an product for males. Apparently my endo will have to do something called a pre-authorization with my insurance company. Anybody run into this problem as well?

    -Blesum

    To go directly to the update post in this thread, click here: E2 question, Test Cyp Results, do I Need Arimidex? Pharm Won't Give It...
    Last edited by Blesum; 03-01-2007 at 06:48 PM.

  2. New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blesum
    Estradiol came out above normal parameters (13-54) at 60 pg.ml. Is this the same thing as E2 and/or Estrogen. I can't seem to find anything here that clearly explains this.
    Estradiol is the same as E2. I have been started out at .25mg every three days of Arimidex. I believe that it is a safe starting dose. I think that you are really going to appreciate getting your E2 down from that high of a level.
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    If you can, try do .65ml.
    •   
       

  4. Maestro
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    Quote Originally Posted by ItsHectic
    If you can, try do .65ml.
    Of test cyp, and forgo the Arimidex? at .75ml of Test Cyp, I'm still nearly 300 Ng/dl below the upper acceptable threshold and have the impression that more testosterone is better overall for quality gains, focus, drive and strength.

    If it matters, I'm a bit gyno-prone as well so having a high estrogen level worries me.

    Also once the HCG is incorporated, would that help balance out/regulate the estradiol?

    -Blesum
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blesum
    Been on HRT for the past 3 or so months.

    Androgel at 5g, test actually dropped.

    Test Cyp at .5ml once a week gave me a trough reading of 338 ng/dl total test, 2.23% free so the Endo told me to up my injections to .75 ml.

    At .75ml once a week and a peak draw gave me a 830 ng/dl total test, 2.09 free.

    SHBG unknown until the recent .75ml peak draw, came out to 25nmol/L which is mid-range (5-49).

    Estradiol came out above normal parameters (13-54) at 60 pg.ml. Is this the same thing as E2 and/or Estrogen. I can't seem to find anything here that clearly explains this.

    Should I go ahead with .25 mg arimidex every 3 days or do I need to take anything else into consideration?

    My endo is admittedly clueless on HRT and is pretty much letting me run the show, albeit slowly. I rely on this site and Dr. John's papers for my information. I asked my endo to write me a script for the .25 mg arimidex and 250 iu HCG every 3 days but am thinking of holding off on starting these two items until next week's trough blood test.

    By the way, the local Rite-Aid refused to give me the arimidex, stating that it was not an product for males. Apparently my endo will have to do something called a pre-authorization with my insurance company. Anybody run into this problem as well?

    -Blesum
    Did Rite-Aid refuse you or your insurance I never had a problem with my insurance. Once a Drug Store refused to fill a script for me on Arimidex and I just went down the street the next one took my money. You get the script they don't think the Dr. did the right thing and will not fill it until they can call your Dr.

    When my E2 was high I started on .5mgs everyday for 4 weeks then tested. I came down from 90 to 24. I had ED, could not have sex with my wife for 10 yrs. with out using a penis pump to pump it up and a ring to keep it up. But this kept her happy I could not reach an orgasm and kept this from my wife. Getting my E2 down all my problems with ED, no orgasms, bad rashes, panic attacks in the middle of the night, feeling hot all day and night looking like I had a sun burn, low pain in my groin with slow voiding and bad brain fog are all gone getting E2 "Estradiol" down.

    The first thing that came back after not having them for over 30 yrs. was morning wood I now know this for me means my E2 is in the Zone or good.

    I would say for you to start at .5mgs every otherday and when wood comes go down to .25mgs. every 3 days keep getting it tested to be sure you don't go to low. For me when my morning wood stops I am going to low. So I stop the meds untill wood comes back then I go back on it but do a lower dose like .25mgs. every 5 days.
    Phil
  6. Maestro
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    Dr. John,

    I believe it was an ultra sensitive assay. I gave him your print outs and mentioned you. He had heard of you previously, said I was not his first patient to bring you up, and agreed with me that you were not some internet quack. I asked him for an ultra sensitive assay on all of my blood work from that point and on. I'm looking at all of my test results and I cannot find any mention of the words "ultra sensitive" though. The tests were done by Quest. How do I find out if they were indeed ultra sensitive assays?

    I'm looking at my lab request for my next test, in a few days and he has these checked off: Estradiol, IGF-I, Testosterone Total (but then he crossed that off and went to the next one below it), Test FR & TOT LC/MS/MS. I do note that Cortisol, total and cortisol, free 24 hr are not checked and these results are discussed here frequently. Should I ask him to add these to the tests, and do I need to ask him to change anything on this test to make it ultra sensitive?

    -Blesum
  7. Maestro
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmgamer18
    Did Rite-Aid refuse you or your insurance I never had a problem with my insurance.

    The first thing that came back after not having them for over 30 yrs. was morning wood I now know this for me means my E2 is in the Zone or good.

    I'm not quite sure who it was that refused me. They had a print out that I saw across the counter regarding this and it basically said this product could not be given to males in bold letters. I told them that if it was in insurance thing, I wanted to know the full price and that I might be willing to pay for all of it out of my pocket to avoid the complications of waiting and getting a pre-authorization. They said no, they couldn't do that. That's why I'm a bit unsure. I hope to have this sorted out sometime this week and will wait for my next E2 results before taking the Armidex just to be sure I really do need it.

    I'm hesitating on starting on the Armidex because of what you said about ED, Pmgamer18. I'm in my early 30's and my sex drive is that of a teenager ever since starting HRT. At 1 AM this morning I went at it with a girl I had in bed. 1 hour of screwing before I got tired enough to end things. At 5 A.M. she kicked me out of my bed because I started humping her again. Now I'm looking for internet porn and will most likely jump back in bed with her once I see her waking up in a few hours. I typically need to bust a nut at least twice a day. I'm a walking hormone these days.

    This stuff is awesome.

    -Blesum
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blesum
    I'm not quite sure who it was that refused me. They had a print out that I saw across the counter regarding this and it basically said this product could not be given to males in bold letters. I told them that if it was in insurance thing, I wanted to know the full price and that I might be willing to pay for all of it out of my pocket to avoid the complications of waiting and getting a pre-authorization. They said no, they couldn't do that. That's why I'm a bit unsure. I hope to have this sorted out sometime this week and will wait for my next E2 results before taking the Armidex just to be sure I really do need it.

    I'm hesitating on starting on the Armidex because of what you said about ED, Pmgamer18. I'm in my early 30's and my sex drive is that of a teenager ever since starting HRT. At 1 AM this morning I went at it with a girl I had in bed. 1 hour of screwing before I got tired enough to end things. At 5 A.M. she kicked me out of my bed because I started humping her again. Now I'm looking for internet porn and will most likely jump back in bed with her once I see her waking up in a few hours. I typically need to bust a nut at least twice a day. I'm a walking hormone these days.

    This stuff is awesome.

    -Blesum
    Glad its working out for you ever since my dr told me to cut the armidex in order to get accurate baseline reading it has been a one way trip straight to hell in a hand basket. No more morning wood. hypothryoid symptoms are worsen, memory confusion, joint pains, digestion problems white spots, on finger nails returned, stutering anything related to estrogen excess I got it. I think its the brand of Gel I am using more then anything Testocreme that is kicking up my levels and the armidex i was taking was blocking the efects of the increae of estrogen, But i have sneaking suspicion that my estroidal levels are going to be fine but the ratio to good to bad estrogen is going be skewed. So my question is this.

    Can a person have estrogen imbalnace despite having optimal estrodial, dht, total testosterone, but still have low free t because the fact is that the body has excess bad estrogen to good estrogen.

    And if you are going to have a blood test should you stop the DIM and if so how far out
  9. Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blesum
    I'm not quite sure who it was that refused me. They had a print out that I saw across the counter regarding this and it basically said this product could not be given to males in bold letters. I told them that if it was in insurance thing, I wanted to know the full price and that I might be willing to pay for all of it out of my pocket to avoid the complications of waiting and getting a pre-authorization. They said no, they couldn't do that. That's why I'm a bit unsure. I hope to have this sorted out sometime this week and will wait for my next E2 results before taking the Armidex just to be sure I really do need it.

    I'm hesitating on starting on the Armidex because of what you said about ED, Pmgamer18. I'm in my early 30's and my sex drive is that of a teenager ever since starting HRT. At 1 AM this morning I went at it with a girl I had in bed. 1 hour of screwing before I got tired enough to end things. At 5 A.M. she kicked me out of my bed because I started humping her again. Now I'm looking for internet porn and will most likely jump back in bed with her once I see her waking up in a few hours. I typically need to bust a nut at least twice a day. I'm a walking hormone these days.

    This stuff is awesome.

    -Blesum
    After reading what you said why would you feel you need Arimidex. The first thing that goes wrong with high E2 is sex and if you do arimidex and being it down to low it's the sex that takes the hit.
    Phil
  10. Professional Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blesum
    I'm not quite sure who it was that refused me. They had a print out that I saw across the counter regarding this and it basically said this product could not be given to males in bold letters. I told them that if it was in insurance thing, I wanted to know the full price and that I might be willing to pay for all of it out of my pocket to avoid the complications of waiting and getting a pre-authorization. They said no, they couldn't do that. That's why I'm a bit unsure. I hope to have this sorted out sometime this week and will wait for my next E2 results before taking the Armidex just to be sure I really do need it.

    I'm hesitating on starting on the Armidex because of what you said about ED, Pmgamer18. I'm in my early 30's and my sex drive is that of a teenager ever since starting HRT. At 1 AM this morning I went at it with a girl I had in bed. 1 hour of screwing before I got tired enough to end things. At 5 A.M. she kicked me out of my bed because I started humping her again. Now I'm looking for internet porn and will most likely jump back in bed with her once I see her waking up in a few hours. I typically need to bust a nut at least twice a day. I'm a walking hormone these days.

    This stuff is awesome.

    -Blesum
    Your have a working system, try not to screw it up.
    Do few for my sake.
    ------------------------------------------
    Keep Arimidex as last resort medicine. It is strong, single purpose, hard to figure out the right dose.
    If you have to, use DIM. But I actually preffer
    Dual-Action Cruciferous Vegetable Extract With Resveratrol & Cat's Claw, 60 Vegetarian Capsules
    One pill per 160# of body weight, but I am 160# 2 pills works better for me as I have some E2 issues.
    ----------------------------------------------
    Keep your FreeT at 160-250, so your E2 will not become a problem.
    -----------------------------------------------
    Your doctor checked wrong Testosterone test. You still have a time to make correction.
    The correct test from Quest Diagnostics is

    Testosterone, LC/MS/MS
    Free, Bioavailable, and Total Testosterone

    ▪ Total: LC/MS/MS

    Free: calculated based on constants for the binding of testosterone to SHBG and albumin

    Bioavailable: calculated based on constants for the binding of testosterone to SHBG and albumin

    ▪ SHBG: immunochemiluminometric assay (ICMA)

    ▪ Albumin: spectrophotometry

    ▪ Aliases: free, weakly bound, and total testosterone

    ▪ CPT Codes*: 84403, 84270, 82040
    -----------------------------------------------------------
    Tests that they do at Quest diagnostics
    Quest Diagnostics: Interpretive Guide - Endocrinology
    ---------------------
    Clicking on Estradiol will put you here
    http://www.questdiagnostics.com/hcp/...3rdEd_2004.pdf
    They have a four tests for Estradiol
    You want the one on page 64, Estradiol, serum
    men range (10-50)
    -------------
    You write "Estradiol came out above normal parameters (13-54) at 60 pg.ml."
    I did a search of Quest Diagnostic Manual, there is nothing that have 13-54 range.
    You must have done your test somewhere else, or typo.
    -----------------------------------------------------------
  11. Maestro
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmgamer18
    After reading what you said why would you feel you need Arimidex. The first thing that goes wrong with high E2 is sex and if you do arimidex and being it down to low it's the sex that takes the hit.
    Phil
    That's why I'm having a pause here. I just noted that my E2 were above the norm range and figured that it needed to be brought back down some.

    I do experience more fatigue than usual and attributed that to the higher estrogen levels. I normally wake up at 5 A.M. for my workouts, but for the past three or four weeks ever since a couple of weeks after the test cyp took hold, I find myself oversleeping to the point where the alarm wakes me up almost 2 hours past my usual waking time. Before this, I would only sleep that late once every two or so months if I stayed up late the night before. Now I'm oversleeping every morning...

    Still would like to get my RX filled so I have it on hand, and will wait for the next results to see what the numbers are. I also increased my fiber intake via one extra serving of oatmeal daily to see if that won't help bring down the estrogen some since I'm not too high past the normal limit.

    -Blesum
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blesum
    That's why I'm having a pause here. I just noted that my E2 were above the norm range and figured that it needed to be brought back down some.

    I do experience more fatigue than usual and attributed that to the higher estrogen levels. I normally wake up at 5 A.M. for my workouts, but for the past three or four weeks ever since a couple of weeks after the test cyp took hold, I find myself oversleeping to the point where the alarm wakes me up almost 2 hours past my usual waking time. Before this, I would only sleep that late once every two or so months if I stayed up late the night before. Now I'm oversleeping every morning...

    Still would like to get my RX filled so I have it on hand, and will wait for the next results to see what the numbers are. I also increased my fiber intake via one extra serving of oatmeal daily to see if that won't help bring down the estrogen some since I'm not too high past the normal limit.

    -Blesum
    how much fiber are you eating ? serving oatmral is only 2-3 grams of fiber. you need 25-35grams a day total fiber. Insoluable fiber will help to reduce estrogen not soluable. Soluable fiber binds with cholesterol why it lowers cholesterol i bet you add a probiotic in there it will help ease the liver with estrogen detoxification since your bacterial flora in your gut help control estrogen levels through conjugation
  13. Maestro
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    I missed everything you wrote below the "Do few for my sake" - I'm used to ignoring things below --------- because that's usually somebody's signature that's automatically put under what they write. I'm glad I went back to re-read everything and caught everything else you wrote.

    I will check out the vegetable extract.

    Free T is at 173.5 with a reference range of 35 and 155.

    You said to keep it between 160-250. Are you sure? I'm above the normal ranges already, and almost at the bottom of your recommended range.

    The test the doctor checked for the next blood draw is "36170 TEST FR&TOT LC/MS/MS" which seems to match what you are saying is the correct test. I cannot find #84403, 84270 or 82040 on the lab sheet.

    I do not see an option for SHBG, immoun or IMCA. I do see one for Albumin and it is not checked. Should I ask my Endo to change that? Please keep the advice and information coming.

    I'm rechecking the latest results to see if I made a typo now. The line says this exactly:
    ESTRADIOL 60 H PG/ML 13-54 EN

    The H means high - above their accepted parameters. Below that is my PSA, total (.3) and then my SHBG which came out at 25 nmol/L I guess they did test it the last time and maybe that's included with the testosterone test?

    Maybe they use different forms for different Quest labs? The Lab that is testing my blood is based in West Hills, CA.

    Anxiously awaiting a response,

    Blesum



    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz
    Your have a working system, try not to screw it up.
    Do few for my sake.
    ------------------------------------------
    Keep Arimidex as last resort medicine. It is strong, single purpose, hard to figure out the right dose.
    If you have to, use DIM. But I actually preffer
    Dual-Action Cruciferous Vegetable Extract With Resveratrol & Cat's Claw, 60 Vegetarian Capsules
    One pill per 160# of body weight, but I am 160# 2 pills works better for me as I have some E2 issues.
    ----------------------------------------------
    Keep your FreeT at 160-250, so your E2 will not become a problem.
    -----------------------------------------------
    Your doctor checked wrong Testosterone test. You still have a time to make correction.
    The correct test from Quest Diagnostics is

    Testosterone, LC/MS/MS
    Free, Bioavailable, and Total Testosterone

    ▪ Total: LC/MS/MS

    Free: calculated based on constants for the binding of testosterone to SHBG and albumin

    Bioavailable: calculated based on constants for the binding of testosterone to SHBG and albumin

    ▪ SHBG: immunochemiluminometric assay (ICMA)

    ▪ Albumin: spectrophotometry

    ▪ Aliases: free, weakly bound, and total testosterone

    ▪ CPT Codes*: 84403, 84270, 82040
    -----------------------------------------------------------
    Tests that they do at Quest diagnostics
    Quest Diagnostics: Interpretive Guide - Endocrinology
    ---------------------
    Clicking on Estradiol will put you here
    http://www.questdiagnostics.com/hcp/...3rdEd_2004.pdf
    They have a four tests for Estradiol
    You want the one on page 64, Estradiol, serum
    men range (10-50)
    -------------
    You write "Estradiol came out above normal parameters (13-54) at 60 pg.ml."
    I did a search of Quest Diagnostic Manual, there is nothing that have 13-54 range.
    You must have done your test somewhere else, or typo.
    -----------------------------------------------------------
  14. Maestro
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973
    how much fiber are you eating ? serving oatmral is only 2-3 grams of fiber. you need 25-35grams a day total fiber. Insoluable fiber will help to reduce estrogen not soluable. Soluable fiber binds with cholesterol why it lowers cholesterol i bet you add a probiotic in there it will help ease the liver with estrogen detoxification since your bacterial flora in your gut help control estrogen levels through conjugation
    I used to eat 1.5 cup a day. Now it's up to 3-4 cups. I also usually eat a cup of steamed broccoli twice a day. I thought I was doing pretty good. When I'm taking a caffeinated product, I also eat a whole large grapefruit in the morning.

    Probiotic as in yogurt? I googled it and ended up with a bunch of supplements. Suggestions?

    -Blesum
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blesum
    I used to eat 1.5 cup a day. Now it's up to 3-4 cups. I also usually eat a cup of steamed broccoli twice a day. I thought I was doing pretty good. When I'm taking a caffeinated product, I also eat a whole large grapefruit in the morning.

    Probiotic as in yogurt? I googled it and ended up with a bunch of supplements. Suggestions?

    -Blesum
    Thats all soulable fiber !!!! you need some insoluable fiber look into hemp protein pwder its got 13 grams of insoluable fiber to it this way you can cut back to oatmeal to 1 -2 servings a day also too much soluable fiber from oats will bind your minerals because of high phytates. Plus taking caffine at same time you take multi -vitamin if you even take one you will just piss it right out. I see this all to many times. People drink coffe with multivitamin and wonder why they have mineral defiecincy. Shesh. eating too much of one type of grain can give you a nice food allergy as well which you be vulnerable to if you have hidden adrenal fatigue from the excesssive gluten..

    Insoluble fiber, on the other hand, can directly impact your hormone balance by helping decrease estrogen overload. In addition to flaxseed and wheat bran, insoluble fiber is also found in beans, seeds and the peels of fruits and vegetables. It doesn't dissolve in water and passes through your digestive system largely unchanged. What insoluble fiber does do is bind to extra estrogen in the digestive tract. This extra estrogen is later eliminated in the body through the feces... or, as our friend Arthur would say, "When you poop."

    I recommend consuming 1-2 servings of insoluble fiber and lignans per day. I suggest stirring or sprinkling 1- 2 tablespoons of flaxseed or sesame seeds into yogurt, smoothies, cottage cheese, salads or steamed vegetables. Another option is to eat a full bowl of bran cereal in the morning or as a mid- afternoon snack.

    Be interesting to see Peoples opinon on flax seeds LOL
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    Multi 2x a day, once in morning with breakfast (either bowl of oatmeal and a shake, or 6-8 whole eggs) and once before going to sleep (with a BCAA shake).

    Beans... I'll pick up some today at the food store and try incorporating some into my diet. Probably the most cost-effective option.

    Wonder if Costco sells sesame seeds in bulk? I'll look into that too.

    -Blesum
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  18. Maestro
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    Quote Originally Posted by plymouth city
    Blesum, if your estradoil numbers are below 40 and your feeling good, no need for arimidex. Its all about feel.
    It was 60 at the last testing. We'll see what this tests will bring.

    -Blesum
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blesum
    It was 60 at the last testing. We'll see what this tests will bring.

    -Blesum
    Whoa thats quite high. Any nipple sensitivity? Do you get morning wood?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blesum
    Multi 2x a day, once in morning with breakfast (either bowl of oatmeal and a shake, or 6-8 whole eggs) and once before going to sleep (with a BCAA shake).

    Beans... I'll pick up some today at the food store and try incorporating some into my diet. Probably the most cost-effective option.

    Wonder if Costco sells sesame seeds in bulk? I'll look into that too.

    -Blesum
    Organic flax seeds in a grinder after opening bag keep them refrigerated it perseves them better and less chance of going rancid. Add 1 TBSP gorund flax seed in your shakes this will be cheapest way to increase both soluable and insoluable fiber. Check to see if your multivitamin is chelated for for minerals oxides do not count. Even though your mulitvmitamin contains zinc if its in oxide for then the oatmeal could be binding it and you might want to try ZMA before bed may lower estrogen levels dues to fact it is needed for estrogen metabolism. Having high estrogen levels ont thing but having bad :good estrogen ratio high is even worse !! Excessive fat a meal will also bind with minerals in they are not in chelated form and it will create a soap in your intestinal track that will flush out the good minerals and prvent them from being absiorbed propeerly. Look into heart to heart by heathy choice gives you 5 grams fiber in the morning
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    Quote Originally Posted by plymouth city
    Whoa thats quite high. Any nipple sensitivity? Do you get morning wood?

    Morning wood? I can't get rid of it.

    I do have fatigue and some bloating. No nipple sensitivity although I did get gyno nearly a year ago out of the blue for no obvious reasons. I had done a 3 week 10mg cycle of superdrol 9 months earlier though.

    HardAsNails, I take the costco multis. Kirkland Daily Vitamins and Minerals. How do I tell if they're chelated? I used to take Opti-Men as my multi but about two months after I started, I developed my gyno and decided to go with a more universal brand rather than take my chances. I'm sure Opti-Men is safe and does indeed only contain what it says it does but I didn't want to take chances.

    -Blesum
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    Read back of label if it says zinc or magnesium oxide or just magnesium or zinc DUMP IT. Because mostlikely its a crapy form of the vitamin and people end up with mineral defiecincy despite taking multiivtamin and they wonder why they are sick for unknown reasons

    60 seems pretty high but from what Dr john describe it may be invalaid test for a male. I usually make sure my results come back 0-54 ranges to be accurate.

    To add for insurance policy take ZMA before bed 1-2 hours after last meal I have a feeling this may help lower estrogen levels a few point

    Age Erasers for Women Fiber

    If you are getting morning wood then one might leave estrogen and armidez alone until proper testing is done to verify if you need it. What is the purpose of hcg if you are already elevated free test levels? Is it to help your balls to keep there size. More so your free test levels will dicate ones erection control more so then serum testosterone. if you have estrogen problems your free testosterone is prbably on low normal with nomral to upper of total serum.
  23. Maestro
    Blesum's Avatar
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    HardAsNails, I also take the kirkland Calcium Citrate for the extra vit. D, Magnesium and Zinc twice a day with my multi and vit C. As far as fiber goes, I also eat a bunch of nuts (raw walnuts and almonds) throughout the day. Is that insoluble?

    -Blesum
  24. Maestro
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973
    Read back of label if it says zinc or magnesium oxide or just magnesium or zinc DUMP IT. Because mostlikely its a crapy form of the vitamin and people end up with mineral defiecincy despite taking multiivtamin and they wonder why they are sick for unknown reasons

    Multi says:

    Magnesium 100mg
    Zinc 22.5 mg

    Calcium citrate says:
    Magnesium 80mg
    Zinc 10mg

    Upon reading the ingredients, it does say that on both bottles that both are oxides.

    Opti-Men says:
    Magnesium (as magnesium oxide, aspartate) 100mg
    Zinc (as zinc citrate) 30mg

    -Blesum
  25. Professional Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blesum
    I missed everything you wrote below the "Do few for my sake" - I'm used to ignoring things below --------- because that's usually somebody's signature that's automatically put under what they write. I'm glad I went back to re-read everything and caught everything else you wrote.

    I will check out the vegetable extract.

    Free T is at 173.5 with a reference range of 35 and 155.

    You said to keep it between 160-250. Are you sure? I'm above the normal ranges already, and almost at the bottom of your recommended range.

    The test the doctor checked for the next blood draw is "36170 TEST FR&TOT LC/MS/MS" which seems to match what you are saying is the correct test. I cannot find #84403, 84270 or 82040 on the lab sheet.

    I do not see an option for SHBG, immoun or IMCA. I do see one for Albumin and it is not checked. Should I ask my Endo to change that? Please keep the advice and information coming.

    I'm rechecking the latest results to see if I made a typo now. The line says this exactly:
    ESTRADIOL 60 H PG/ML 13-54 EN

    The H means high - above their accepted parameters. Below that is my PSA, total (.3) and then my SHBG which came out at 25 nmol/L I guess they did test it the last time and maybe that's included with the testosterone test?

    Maybe they use different forms for different Quest labs? The Lab that is testing my blood is based in West Hills, CA.

    Anxiously awaiting a response,

    Blesum
    Q: "You said to keep it between 160-250. Are you sure? "
    A. Yes, for the type of test that I specified, which is the only test that is really applicable.
    Somebody who cannot do his tests at Quest Diagnostic, may calculate the FreeT himself
    using
    Free & Bioavailable Testosterone calculator
    and units converter
    http://www.get-back-on-track.com/en/tools/umrechner.php
    Just have TotalT, SHBG and Albumin from same blood draw.
    Btw, that is what Quest diagnostic does, in my previous post read text quoted from Quest Diagnostic.
    This FreeT test have range 46-224
    I got it here, column second off the right
    http://www.questdiagnostics.com/hcp/.../Table%201.pdf

    my numbers 160-250 come from Dr Shippen patient.
    --
    I only got all this after I learned a tinny bit on how Dr Shippen treats.
    -------
    Q.Free T is at 173.5 with a reference range of 35 and 155.
    A. You had a useless test done.
    Indeed that test have a range that you have mentioned, check third column off the right of above reference.
    Recently Dr John wrote:
    "And also, the Free T assay is not very reliable."

    Look up my note to Dr John today (Jan28/07) 4:00PM
    Avoiding excess conversion of testosterone into estradiol during testosterone treatme
    Wait and see his comment if any. Who knows, possibly I am all wet.

    Your FreeT was figured out by doing assay not a calculations.
    Do not get upset. Most everybody's FreeT is like that, including mine.
    But they are still useless.
    Read here:
    http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/reprint/86/6/2903.pdf
    Information travels slow. Most doctors do not know this.
    --
    With all this, working with how you feel and the FreeT that you got, you should keep what you doing with Testosterone, until next test, then re-evaluate.

    Not so easy answer with E2, but my best guess,
    I probably would got one pill daily of
    Dual-Action Cruciferous Vegetable Extract With Resveratrol & Cat's Claw
    as it probably would not hurt, but should help some. At some point other than E2 may start going out of hand, that is why they included stuff other than DIM in their pills.
    --------------------------------------------------------
    Q.The test the doctor checked for the next blood draw is "
    36170 TEST FR&TOT LC/MS/MS" which seems to match what you are saying is the correct test. I cannot find #84403, 84270 or 82040 on the lab sheet.

    A. Read again,
    you have: FR&TOT
    you want:Free, Bioavailable, and Total Testosterone
    With this test they will know your
    TotalTestosterone
    SHBG and Albumin
    before they can calculate FreeT and Bioavailable T
    I have not ordered tests for Quest Diagnostics, so I do not know mechanics of ordering.
    I would appreciate if you reply with those details once you learn them. Till now I had tests done thru LabCorp. They require special forms and if required test is not on the form (so the box could be checked out) the doctor/nurse can write them in (small) space that is provided.
    My next test will be at Quest Diagnostics.

    ============================== =============
    I am not a doctor, I just wish you the best.
  26. Professional Member
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    My supplements, note the DHEA, prostate, super miraforte.
    -----------------------------------------------------
    Blesum, your PSA is low, your DHT is probably normal, you may not need miraforte
    ----------------------------------------

    Life Extension Mix™ with Extra Niacin Item Catalog Number: 937
    Serving Size 9 tablets (per day), I take only 6/day

    Amount Per Serving
    Vitamin A (as 20% Betatene® D. salina natural beta- 5000 IU
    carotene with mixed carotenoids1 and 80% acetate)
    Vitamin C (as ascorbic acid, calcium ascorbate, ascorbyl 2000 mg
    palmitate, magnesium ascorbate, niacinamide
    ascorbate, and acerola juice powder)
    Vitamin D3 (as cholecalciferol) 800 IU
    Vitamin E (as D-alpha tocopheryl succinate) 400 IU
    Thiamine (vitamin B1) (as thiamine HCl) 125 mg
    Riboflavin (vitamin B2) 50 mg
    (with 2 mg riboflavin 5’ phosphate coenzyme)
    Niacin (vitamin B3) (as 53% niacinamide, 38% niacin, 862 mg
    9% niacinamide ascorbate)
    Vitamin B6 (as pyridoxine HCI with 2.5 mg pyridoxal 5’ 100 mg
    phosphate coenzyme)
    Folic acid 800 mcg
    Vitamin B12 (as 42% cyanocobalamin, 600 mcg
    42% hydroxylcobalamin, 16% ion exchange resin)
    Biotin 3000 mcg
    Pantothenic acid 600 mg
    (as D-calcium pantothenate with 5 mg pantethine)
    Calcium (as calcium ascorbate, D-calcium pantothenate, 218 mg
    Calcium D-Glucarate2)
    Iodine (as potassium iodide) 75 mcg
    Magnesium (as magnesium oxide, citrate, glycinate, 400 mg
    taurinate, arginate, ascorbate)
    Zinc [as methionate (OptiZinc®3), zinc succinate] 35 mg
    Selenium (as 50% se-methylselenocysteine, 25% 200 mcg
    L-selenomethionine (yeast free) (SelenoPure®4),
    and 25% sodium selenate)
    Copper (as copper bisglycinate chelate) 1 mg
    Manganese (as manganese gluconate) 1 mg
    Chromium 500 mcg
    (as Chromium 454™5 bio-organic yeast extract matrix)
    Molybdenum (as sodium molybdate) 125 mcg
    Potassium (as potassium chloride) 37.4 mg
    N-acetyl-L-cysteine (NAC) 600 mg
    Taurine 500 mg
    Inositol 250 mg
    Phosphatidylcholine (from soy) 150 mg
    Choline (as choline bitartrate) 120 mg
    Dilauryl thiodipropionate 25 mg
    Thiodipropionic acid 25 mg
    Boron (as boron citrate/aspartate/glycinate complex) 3 mg
    Ascorbyl palmitate (fat soluble vitamin C) 250 mg
    para-aminobenzoic acid (PABA) 200 mg
    Trimethylglycine (TMG) 100 mg
    (as betaine anhydrous) (from sugar beets)
    Alpha-carotene 100 IU
    Citrus bioflavonoid complex 1300 mg
    [50% total bioflavonoids (650 mg)]
    Typical profile: (to equal 50% total bioflavonoids)
    Flavanone (Hesperidin) 35% (455 mg)
    Flavonones (Naringin, Naringenin 7-B-Rutinoside and others) 14% (182 mg)
    Flavonols, Flavones and related phenolic compounds 1% (13 mg)
    Broccoli sprout concentrate 525 mg
    (A proprietary blend of broccoli sprout concentrates
    and Calcium D-Glucarate2) (providing sulforaphane,
    glucosinolates, D-3T, and PEITC)
    Calcium D-Glucarate2 200 mg
    Decaffeinated Green tea (Camellia sinensis) extract (leaf) 325 mg
    [std. to 98% polyphenols (318.5 mg) and 45%
    Epigallocatechin gallate (EGCG) (146.25 mg)]
    Acerola juice powder extract 1:4 300 mg
    (Malpighia punicifolia) (fruit)
    Ginger root extract (Zingiber officinale) (root) 200 mg
    [standardized for 5% gingerols (10 mg)]
    HiActives 100% fruit/berry complex (A proprietary blend 200 mg
    of concentrated blackberry, blueberry, cranberry,
    elderberry, persimmon, plum, and cherry powders)
    VitaBlue®6 Wild Blueberry (Vaccinium angustifolium) 150 mg
    130:1 extract (fruit) [standardized to 14% Total
    Phenolics (21 mg), 4.9% Total Anthocyanins
    (7.35 mg), 660 ppm Pterostilbene (0.1 mg)]
    Milk thistle extract (Silybum marianus) (seeds) 100 mg
    [standardized for 85% silymarin (85 mg)]
    Pomegranate (Punica granatum) extract (fruit) 85 mg
    [standardized to 30% Punicalagins (25.5 mg)]
    Bilberry extract (Vaccinium myrtillus) (berry) 30 mg
    [standardized for 25% anthocyanidins (7.5 mg)]
    Leucoselect®7 grapeseed extract (Vitis vinifera) (seeds) 25 mg
    [std. for 95% proanthocyanidins (23.75 mg)]
    BioVin®8 grape extract (Vitis vinifera) (whole grapes) 25 mg
    [std. for minimum 95% proanthocyanidins (23.75 mg),
    minimum 75% total polyphenols as gallic acid
    monohydrate (18.75 mg), minimum 200 ppm
    trans-resveratrol]
    Bromelain (from pineapple) 15 mg
    (2400 gelatin digestive units per gram)
    Lutein (purified concentrate from marigold flowers) 15 mg
    (Tagetes erecta) (providing 465 mcg zeaxanthin)
    Olive juice extract (fresh fruit) [std. to 10% polyphenols 12.5 mg
    (1.25 mg), 7% hydroxytyrosol (0.88 mg)]
    Sesame (Sesamum indicum) lignan extract 10 mg
    Luteolin [from perilla leaf extract (Perilla frutescens)] 8 mg
    Lycopene (from natural tomato extract) (Lyc-O-Mato®9) 3 mg
    ============================== ======================
    Super Booster Softgels With Advanced K2 Complex Item Catalog Number: 980
    Serving Size 1 softgel

    Amount Per Serving
    Vitamin C 90 mg
    (as calcium ascorbate, ascorbyl palmitate)
    Vitamin E (as D-alpha tocopherol) 26.8 IU
    Vitamin K1 9 mg
    Vitamin K2 (as menaquinone-4 and Nutri-K™ 1000 mcg
    menaquinone-7)
    Folic acid 800 mcg
    Vitamin B12 (as cyanocobalamin) 300 mcg
    Calcium (as calcium ascorbate) 10 mg
    Zinc (as zinc gluconate) 10 mg
    Selenium (as sodium selenate, selenomethione, 200 mcg
    se-methylselenocysteine, selenodiglutathione)
    Ascorbyl palmitate 50 mg
    Chlorophyllin 100 mg
    Gamma E Mixed Tocopherols 359 mg
    Typical distribution: Gamma tocopherol 215-244.2 mg
    Delta tocopherol 89.8-125.7 mg
    Alpha tocopherol 18-35.9 mg
    Beta tocopherol 0-7.2 mg
    Ginkgo biloba (leaf) extract 120 mg
    [standardized for 24% ginkgoflavonglycosides
    (28.8 mg), 6% total terpene lactones (7.2 mg),
    and < 1ppm ginkgolic acid]
    Lutein (from marigold extract) 2 mg
    Lycopene (from tomato extract) 10 mg
    Sesame seed (Sesamum indicum) lignan extract 20 mg
    ============================== ======================
    Super BioActive CoQ10 Ubiquino l50 mg, Item Catalog Number: 952
    Serving Size 1 softgel

    Amount Per Serving
    Ubiquinol (Kaneka QH™ reduced) form of CoQ10 50 mg
    ============================== ======================
    Mitochondrial Energy Optimizer with SODzyme Item Catalog Number: 768
    Serving Size 4 capsules

    Amount Per Serving
    Thiamin (vitamin B1) (as thiamine HCl) 50 mg
    Acetyl-l-carnitine hydrochloride 750 mg
    Acetyl-l-carnitine arginate dihydrochloride 750 mg
    Carnosine 1000 mg
    SODzyme Proprietary Phytoenzyme Blend 300 mg
    (Glycine max, Zea mays, wheat sprout concentrate)
    Benfotiamine 150 mg
    Luteolin [from perilla leaf extract (Perilla frutescens)] 8 mg
    R-lipoic acid (as potassium-R-lipoate) 150 mg
    Rhodiola rosea root extract [standardized for 3% 150 mg
    rosavins (4.5 mg) and 1% salidrosides (1.5 mg)]
    ============================== ======================
    Cognitex with Pregnenolone & NeuroProtection Complex Item Catalog Number: 822
    Serving Size 3 softgels

    Amount Per Serving
    Alpha-Glyceryl Phosphoryl Choline (A-GPC) 600 mg
    Phosphatidylserine 100 mg
    [SharpPS Gold™ Conjugated Phosphatidylserine-DHA
    (std. to 45% PS and 8% DHA) and phosphatidylserine]
    Pregnenolone 50 mg
    Vinpocetine 20 mg
    Phosphatidylcholine-Grape Seed Extract 150 mg
    [Contains 50 mg of Leucoselect® Phytosome™ grape
    seed extract (95% polyphenols) bound to 100 mg of
    phosphatidylcholine from soy]
    VitaBlue® Wild Blueberry (Vaccinium angustifolium) 150 mg
    130:1 Extract (fruit) [std. to 14% Total Phenolics
    (21 mg), 4.9% Total Anthocyanins (7.35 mg), 660 ppm
    Pterostilbene (0.1 mg)]
    Sensoril® Ashwagandha (Withania somnifera) Extract 125 mg
    (root and leaves) [standardized to 8% withanolide
    glycoside conjugates (10 mg) and 32%
    oligosaccharides (40 mg)]
    Proprietary NeuroProtection Complex Blend 125 mg
    Perluxan™ Hops Extract (Humulus lupulus)
    (standardized to 30% alpha and iso-alpha acids)
    Ginger (Zingiber officinale) Extract
    (root) (std. to 5% gingerols)
    Rosemary (Rosmarinus officinalis) Extract (leaves)
    (standardized to 20% diterpenic compounds)
    ============================== ======================
    Super Omega-3 EPA/DHA with Sesame Lignans & Olive Fruit Extract (Molecularly Distilled)
    Item Catalog Number: 902
    Serving Size 2 softgels (I take two servings)

    Servings Per Container 60
    Amount Per Serving
    Calories 21
    Calories from Fat 21
    Total Fat 2.3 g
    Cholesterol 8 mg
    Wild Fish Oil Concentrate 2000 mg
    Yielding: EPA (eicosapentaenoic acid) 700 mg
    DHA (docosahexaenoic acid) 500 mg
    Other Omega-3 fatty acids 100 mg
    Polyphen-Oil™ Olive (Olea europaea) Fruit Extract 300 mg
    [triple std. to 8% total polyphenols (24 mg), 0.7%
    hydroxytyrosol (2.1 mg) and 0.5% verbascoside (1.5 mg)]
    Sesame seed (Sesamum indicum) lignan extract 10 mg
    Rosemary (Rosmarinus officinalis) Extract (leaves) 25 mg
    [standardized to 20% diterpenic compounds (5 mg)]
    Other ingredients: refined fish oil concentrate (anchovy, sardine, mackerel), gelatin,
    glycerin, beeswax, soy lecithin, natural color, mixed tocopherols.
    Contains fish (anchovy, sardine, mackerel). Contains sesame.
    This product contains NO milk, egg, peanuts, crustacean shellfish (lobster, crab,
    shrimp), soybeans, tree nuts, wheat, yeast, gluten, corn, or rice. Contains NO sugar,
    and no artificial sweeteners, flavors, colors, or preservatives.
    ============================== ======================
    Advanced Natural Prostate Formula with 5-Loxin® Item Catalog Number: 975
    Serving Size 2 softgels

    Servings Per Container 30
    Amount Per Serving
    Saw Palmetto (Serenoa repens) (berries) CO2 extract 320 mg
    [std to 85%-95% free fatty acids and sterols (272 mg)]
    Cernitin® Flower Pollen extract (Secale cereale L.) 252 mg
    5-Loxin® (Boswellia serrata) extract (gum resin) [std. to 70 mg
    acetyl-11-keto-ß-boswellic acid (AKBA) minimum 30%
    (21 mg)]
    Stinging nettle extract (Urtica dioica) (root) 240 mg
    Pygeum (Pygeum africanum) extract (bark) 100 mg
    [std. to 11.7% sterols as beta-sitosterol (11.7 mg)]
    Lycopene (from tomato extract) 10 mg
    Phytosterol Complex [std. to 59% free total sterols 678 mg
    (400 mg) and 26.6% free beta-sitosterol (180 mg)]
    Boron (from boron citrate, glycinate, and aspartate) 3 mg
    Rosemary (Rosmarinus officinalis) extract 800 mcg
    Other ingredients: pumpkin seed oil, beeswax, soy lecithin, rosemary,
    gelatin, glycerin, purified water.
    Contains soybeans. This product contains NO milk, egg, fish, peanuts, crustacean shellfish, tree nuts, wheat, yeast, gluten, corn, or rice. Contains NO artificial sweeteners, flavors, colors, or preservatives.
    ============================== ======================
    Bone Restore Item Catalog Number: 811
    Serving Size 5 capsules

    Amount Per Serving
    Vitamin D3 (as cholecalciferol) 1000 IU
    Calcium (as dicalcium malate, calcium bis-glycinate, 1200 mg
    calcium fructoborate)
    Magnesium (as magnesium oxide) 340 mg
    Zinc (as zinc amino acid chelate) 2 mg
    Manganese (as manganese amino acid chelate) 1 mg
    Silicon (from horsetail herb, Equisetum arvense) 5 mg
    Boron (calcium fructoborate as patented Fruitex B® 3 mg
    OsteoBoron™)
    ============================== ======================
    DHEA (Dehydroepiandrosterone) Free Base 100 mg, Item Catalog Number: 883
    I take 3 daily (total 300mg) plus two pills of DHEA complete( described below)

    ============================== ======================
    DHEA Complete
    100 mg 7-Keto® DHEA & 25 mg DHEA, 60 capsules
    Item Catalog Number: 850

    Amount Per Serving
    Vitamin C (as ascorbyl palmitate) 11 mg
    Vitamin E (as D-alpha tocopheryl succinate) 25 IU
    7-Keto® DHEA (3-Acetyl-7-oxo-dehydroepiandrosterone) 100 mg
    Ascorbyl palmitate 25 mg
    Turmeric (root) extract (Curcuma longa) 25 mg
    [Standardized for 95% total curcuminoids (23.7 mg)]
    DHEA (dehydroepiandrosterone) 25 mg
    (pure free base pharmaceutical grade)
    Green tea extract, decaffeinated (Camellia sinensis) (leaf) 25 mg
    [Standardized for minimum 90% polyphenols (22.5)]
    Whole grape extract (Vitis vinifera) and Polygonum 3 mg
    cuspidatum (root) extract [Standardized to 35%
    Resveratrol (1 mg)]
    ============================== ======================
    Super MiraForte with Maximum Strength Chrysin Item Catalog Number: 615
    Serving Size 2 capsules (I take 4 pills daily)(it is aromatase inhibitor)

    Amount Per Serving
    Zinc (as zinc monomethionine) 7.5 mg
    Chrysin 750 mg
    Muira puama (Ptychopetalum olacoides) 425 mg
    powdered extract (stem)
    Maca (Lepidium meyenii) (root) 160 mg
    (also known as Peruvian ginseng)
    Nettle (Urtica dioica) powdered methanolic extract (root) 141 mg
    Ginger (Zingiber officinale) powdered extract (rhizome) 25 mg
    Bioperine® piperine (from black pepper) 7.5 mg
    ============================== ======================
    [B]SAMe (S-adenosyl-methionine) 200 mg, Item Catalog Number: 453
    Serving Size 2 tablets
    Amount Per Serving
    S-Adenosyl-Methionine 400 mg
    ============================== ======================
    Dual-Action Cruciferous Vegetable Extract With Resveratrol & Cat's Claw Item Catalog Number: 855
    Serving Size 1 capsule (it is aromatase inhibitor)

    Amount Per Serving
    Broccoli (Brassica oleracea l.) Super Concentrate Extract 400 mg
    (plant and sprouts) [std. to 4% glucosinolates (16 mg)]
    Watercress (Nasturtium officinale) 4:1 Extract (leaf) 100 mg
    Indole-3-Carbinol (I3C) 80 mg
    Rosemary (Rosmarinus officinalis) Extract (leaves) 50 mg
    [std. to 20% diterpenic compounds (10 mg) and
    providing carnosic acid/carnosol]
    Cat's Claw (Uncaria tomentosa) Extract (bark) 25 mg
    [std. to 8% carboxy alkyl esters (2 mg)]
    Resveratrol [from Red Grape (Vitis vinifera) Extract 20 mg
    (whole fruit) and Polygonum cuspidatum Extract (root)]
    DIM (Di-indolyl-methane) 14 mg
    ============================== ======================
    Aspirin 325mg
    ============================== ======================
    ArthroMax™ with FruiteX B® Item Catalog Number: 903
    Serving Size 4 capsules

    Amount Per Serving
    Glucosamine sulfate (as D-glucosamine sulfate 2KCl) 1000 mg
    (derived from shellfish)
    N-acetyl-D-glucosamine (derived from shellfish) 1000 mg
    Methylsulfonylmethane (MSM) 1000 mg
    Proprietary and patented blend of natural citrus and 300 mg
    palm fruit extract containing nobiletin and tangeretin
    5-Loxin® [standardized for acetyl-11-keto-ß-boswellic 75 mg
    acid (AKBA) minimum 30% on dried basis (22.5 mg)]
    Boron (calcium fructoborate as patented FruiteX B®) 1.5 mg
    ============================== ======================
    [B]Hyaluronic Acid 50 mg, Item Catalog Number: 3132
    Serving Size 2 tablets[B/]
    Amount Per Serving
    Protein 1 g
    Calcium 140 mg
    BioCell Collagen II™ 1 g
    Yielding:
    Type II Collagen 600 mg
    Chondroitin Sulfate 200 mg
    Hyaluronic Acid 100 mg
    ============================== ======================
    Gamma E Tocopherol with Sesame Lignans Item Catalog Number: 759

    Serving Size 1 softgel

    Amount Per Serving
    Vitamin E (as D-alpha tocopherol) 26.9 IU
    Gamma E Mixed Tocopherols 359 mg
    Typical distribution:
    Gamma tocopherol 215.5-244.2 mg
    Delta tocopherol 89.8-125.7 mg
    Alpha tocopherol 18-35.9 mg
    Beta tocopherol 0-7.2 mg
    Sesame seed (Sesamum indicum) lignan extract 20 mg
    ============================== ======================
    Super Curcumin with Bioperine® 800 mg, Item Catalog Number: 912
    Serving Size 1 capsule

    Amount Per Serving
    Turmeric (Curcuma longa) root extract 800 mg
    [containing 95% (760 mg) curcuminoids (curcumin,
    demethoxycurcumin and bis-demethoxycurcumin]
    Bioperine® piperine (from black pepper) 5 mg
    ============================== ======================
    SODzyme™ with GliSODin 90 Item Catalog Number: 801
    Serving Size 3 vegetarian capsules

    Amount Per Serving
    SODzyme™ Proprietary Phytoenzyme Blend 2000 mg
    (Glycine max, Zea mays, wheat sprout concentrate)
    Superoxide Dismutase/Gliadin Complex (GliSODin®) 100 mg
    [SOD (Superoxide Dismutase) NBT† Enzyme Activity = 100 IU]
    ============================== ======================
  27. Maestro
    Blesum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. John
    Does it say Nichols Institute Extraction Method?
    Good God, JanSz. I'll get back to you in a sec.

    Dr. John, no it does not say that. It does say under PSA that "THIS ASSAY WAS PERFORMED USING THE BAYER CHEMILUMINESCENT METHOD"

    Under the Testosterone results, it repeatedly says "Total Testosterone was measured by LCMSMS. The LCMSMS method correlates well with our extraction/RIA method.

    Those are the only times assays or methods are mentioned anywhere on the test results.

    -Blesum
  28. Maestro
    Blesum's Avatar
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    JanSz,

    That 2nd post of yours with the vitamins was pretty overwhelming. I had no idea there were that many different products out there that could be put into a pill and swallowed on a regular basis. I eat a varied diet of whole foods consistently and rely that to cover the majority of my bases. I'm not sure if I need to add what you are taking. It all just seems overwhelming and makes me want to crawl back into bed.

    Just out of curiosity, where do you get all these and how much does it cost?

    I'm going to print out the assay PDF and pass it on to my Endo. I don't really think he will take the time to read it or bring himself up to date on my behalf since I have the impression that he's depending on me to tell him what to do.

    I'm feeling a bit vauge and unfocused on what exactly I need to change with the next test. I still assume I should ask the Endo to add "223 Albumin" to the test. Is that correct?

    Will I then be able to use the results to calucate the bioavailable testosterone results or do I still need to tell him to change the type of testosterone test that will be done the next time?

    I can be a bit dense and slow at times. I blame the blood-draining erections.

    -Dazed
  29. Registered User
    hardasnails1973's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blesum
    Multi says:

    Magnesium 100mg
    Zinc 22.5 mg

    Calcium citrate says:
    Magnesium 80mg
    Zinc 10mg

    Upon reading the ingredients, it does say that on both bottles that both are oxides.

    Opti-Men says:
    Magnesium (as magnesium oxide, aspartate) 100mg
    Zinc (as zinc citrate) 30mg

    -Blesum
    Well there ya go 50 mgs magnesium break down to about 5 mgs of magnesium elemental provided you have good stomach acid to get the RDA of magnesium from oxide I think it is something like 3000 mgs to be converted to 400 mgs elemental mag
    So now you can see how people are miss lead by things and wonder why they get sick so often, "but I take a multivitmain" but are you absorbing it and metabolisming that it is the question. Get ZMA before bed its more easily absorbed form even on poor stomach acid which alot of older people have. Now combine all the oatmeal you eat and phytates well you probably are running low on bioavialble nutrient mainly zinc and magnesium.. with out them estrogen metabolism is altered.

    Look up spectracell labs and get the most comprehensive test if you have bluecross blue shiled it cost you 75 bucks and insurance covers the rest it was very revealing for me thats for sure. Funny i kept telling drs what I was low in and did not believe me so I had this test run and then when i retruned with results they where like it should basically i had excess lipid perioxation draining my specific nutrients and this leads me back to cause estrogen imbalance
  30. Maestro
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    I still don't have a straight answer on how exactly I need to fix, or change tomorrow's draw. I checked with a nurse practioner and she seems pretty sure that I have the right items checked off, and I will add the albumium option on my own and hope that I don't get in any trouble. I assume I do need that one checked so that I can use the bioavailable calcucator...

    I'll check this thread a few times before I head off for the blood draw in case there's a new post telling me how I need to change my lab paperwork. I would hate it if the tests were deemed worthless. Not eating for 12 hour sucks and to be told it was for nothing is even worse.

    -Blesum
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blesum View Post
    I still don't have a straight answer on how exactly I need to fix, or change tomorrow's draw. I checked with a nurse practioner and she seems pretty sure that I have the right items checked off, and I will add the albumium option on my own and hope that I don't get in any trouble. I assume I do need that one checked so that I can use the bioavailable calcucator...

    I'll check this thread a few times before I head off for the blood draw in case there's a new post telling me how I need to change my lab paperwork. I would hate it if the tests were deemed worthless. Not eating for 12 hour sucks and to be told it was for nothing is even worse.

    -Blesum
    Testosterone, LC/MS/MS

    Free, Bioavailable, and Total Testosterone

    ▪ Total: LC/MS/MS

    ▪ Free: calculated based on constants for the binding of testosterone to SHBG and albumin

    ▪ Bioavailable: calculated based on constants for the binding of testosterone to SHBG and
    albumin

    SHBG: immunochemiluminometric assay (ICMA)

    Albumin: spectrophotometry

    ▪ Aliases: free, weakly bound, and total testosterone

    CPT Codes*: 84403, 84270, 82040
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    Jansz or dr john,
    given lab corp or quest which one is better for testosterone evaluations
  33. Professional Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973 View Post
    Jansz or dr john,
    given lab corp or quest which one is better for testosterone evaluations
    All my tests, for the last 4 years were done at LabCorp.
    I really do not have a major complains about LabCor.
    My next blood test will done by Quest Diagnostics, it is solely based on the fact that between the two laboratories only Quest Diagnostics have the correct FreeTestosterone test, (they also have another FreeTestosterone tests, so one have to be carefull when ordering.
    The correct test is in red.
    Testosterone, LC/MS/MS from Quest Diagnostics
    Free and Total Testosterone
    – Total: LC/MS/MS
    – Percent free: equilibrium dialysis
    – Free: calculated based on total and percent free
    – Aliases: testosterone index, dialyzable testosterone
    – CPT Codes:* 84403, 84402
    Free, Bioavailable, and Total Testosterone
    – Total: LC/MS/MS
    – Free: calculated based on constants for the binding of testosterone to SHBG and albumin
    – Bioavailable: calculated based on constants for the binding of testosterone to SHBG and albumin
    – SHBG: extraction, chromatography, radioimmunoassay
    – Albumin: spectrophotometry
    – Aliases: free, weakly bound, and total testosterone
    – CPT Codes:* 84403, 84270, 82040
  34. Maestro
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    March 1st Update

    Got my blood results back from early February's draw which was a trough test, 7 days after .75 injection of test cyp, and 24 hour fasting.

    Dihydrotestosterone: 45 (25-75)
    Testosterone, free, bio and total, lc/ms/ms testosterone, total: 394 (250-1100)
    Testosterone, Free: 68 (46-224)
    Testosterone, bioavailable: 151.8 (110.0-575.0)
    SHBG: 22 (5-49)
    Albumin, serum 4.9 (3.7-5.1)

    2nd page:
    Growth Hormone: 0.3

    Estradiol: 25 (13-54)
    Sex Hormone Binding Globulin: 24 (5-49)


    Does anything stand out to anybody as interesting or concerning? The E2 level of 25 is AWESOME news. Still not able to get the armidex or HCG covered by my insurance, still going around and around with insurance and the doctor. But even if I get both items, I won't bother with the armidex unless a future bloodwork reveals elevated levels again. Any idea why it went down by more than half?? I'm baffled.

    -Blesum
  35. Maestro
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    Using the Free & Bioavailable Testosterone calculator at Free & Bioavailable Testosterone calculator I came up with these numbers:

    Free Testosterone 8.95 ng/dl = 2.27%
    Bioavailable Testosterone 238 ng/dl = 60.4%

    ???

    -Blesum
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blesum View Post
    Using the Free & Bioavailable Testosterone calculator at Free & Bioavailable Testosterone calculator I came up with these numbers:

    Free Testosterone 8.95 ng/dl = 2.27%
    Bioavailable Testosterone 238 ng/dl = 60.4%

    ???

    -Blesum
    you are still not of the woods yet if you took your shot you need the results after 48 hours to see if your e2 rose and also shbg. You took it at the lowest point you need to take at highest point 48 hours after injection then see where your e2 and everything else is thats what matters the most not when you are at the lowest point. You want the crest not the trough
  37. Maestro
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    I'll ask to do another peak test then. The last peak test (48 hours) showed my E2 at 60. That was back in January.

    Do I need to go on Armidex if my E2 still gets that high, or can I safely get away without taking any since if I average 60 (peak) and 25 (trough), I end up at 45 which is within normal specs. I have morning wood and my sex drive remains high. I do not have much bloating (see avatar) other than from what I can attribute to being slightly on a bulking diet.

    One change I'm considering is to go with my testosterone shots every 5 days instead of 7 so try to maintain a higher and more constant/stable testosterone level since a big reason for my going on HRT is to gain strength and mass.

    -Blesum
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blesum View Post
    I'll ask to do another peak test then. The last peak test (48 hours) showed my E2 at 60. That was back in January.

    Do I need to go on Armidex if my E2 still gets that high, or can I safely get away without taking any since if I average 60 (peak) and 25 (trough), I end up at 45 which is within normal specs. I have morning wood and my sex drive remains high. I do not have much bloating (see avatar) other than from what I can attribute to being slightly on a bulking diet.

    One change I'm considering is to go with my testosterone shots every 5 days instead of 7 so try to maintain a higher and more constant/stable testosterone level since a big reason for my going on HRT is to gain strength and mass.

    -Blesum
    Don't bother with arimidex then. It all goes on how you feel. If morning wood and libido is on, and your able to stay lean(you look great) why bother? Always best, IMO, to take as less amount of drugs .

    Every 5th day? Hmmm. I don't think it would make much of a difference, 7 days vs 5. I would give every 3 days a try.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blesum View Post
    March 1st Update

    Got my blood results back from early February's draw which was a trough test, 7 days after .75 injection of test cyp, and 24 hour fasting.

    Dihydrotestosterone: 45 (25-75)
    Testosterone, free, bio and total, lc/ms/ms testosterone, total: 394 (250-1100)
    Testosterone, Free: 68 (46-224)
    Testosterone, bioavailable: 151.8 (110.0-575.0)
    SHBG: 22 (5-49)
    Albumin, serum 4.9 (3.7-5.1)

    2nd page:
    Growth Hormone: 0.3

    Estradiol: 25 (13-54)
    Sex Hormone Binding Globulin: 24 (5-49)


    Does anything stand out to anybody as interesting or concerning? The E2 level of 25 is AWESOME news. Still not able to get the armidex or HCG covered by my insurance, still going around and around with insurance and the doctor. But even if I get both items, I won't bother with the armidex unless a future bloodwork reveals elevated levels again. Any idea why it went down by more than half?? I'm baffled.

    -Blesum
    Problem is, I do not really know how to evaluate someone who have his levels fluctuating as you have, doing once weekly shots.
    But for whatever it is worth, you numbers are very low, testosterone indicators are very low.
    According to this work
    ---http://www.atypon-link.com/WDG/doi/pdf/10.1515/JLM.2006.050
    tables 2&4
    healthy males had
    FreeT=199
    BioAvailableT=500
    -----------------------------------
    with your
    SHBG=22
    Albumin=4.6
    I am projecting using calculator
    and trying to get BAT as close as possible to 500

    TT=756
    FreeT=200
    BAT=500
    ----------------------
    How you can get close to it without daily applications, I do not know.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------
    You could do urine test and check for your 2/16 hydroextrones ratio ($300)
    or just load up on 300mgDIM and 1000mg TMG
    This 300mgDIM, my interpretation (pending) is that it is "crude" DIM, 25% of which is bio-available.
    There are many DIMs around, I prefer those that have I3C in them.
    I do not use Arimidex.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    Problem is, I do not really know how to evaluate someone who have his levels fluctuating as you have, doing once weekly shots.
    .
    Agreed. I really have a hard time understanding how anyone can interpret BW, MD or layman, from once weekly injects.

    Some claim that over time, with once weekly injects, blood levels stabalize. I do not belive this is so. Ive never seen any hard data that backed up stable blood levels from once weekly injects.

    I strongly urge you to switch over to E3D, and BW will be much easier to scrutinize from there.

    Your estradoil will further stabalize itself as well. The smaller amount of T you inject, the less aromotization will occur. And less amount of SHBG as well. The odds are completely stacked in favor of more frequent injects.

    The only time I can see once weekly injects being of value would be someone on AAS, and injecting large amounts, like 500mg.
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