E2 question, Test Cyp Results, do I Need Arimidex? Pharm Won't Give It...

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  1. E2 question, Test Cyp Results, do I Need Arimidex? UPDATE - E2 Halved, Other #'s OK?


    Been on HRT for the past 3 or so months.

    Androgel at 5g, test actually dropped.

    Test Cyp at .5ml once a week gave me a trough reading of 338 ng/dl total test, 2.23% free so the Endo told me to up my injections to .75 ml.

    At .75ml once a week and a peak draw gave me a 830 ng/dl total test, 2.09 free.

    SHBG unknown until the recent .75ml peak draw, came out to 25nmol/L which is mid-range (5-49).

    Estradiol came out above normal parameters (13-54) at 60 pg.ml. Is this the same thing as E2 and/or Estrogen. I can't seem to find anything here that clearly explains this.

    Should I go ahead with .25 mg arimidex every 3 days or do I need to take anything else into consideration?

    My endo is admittedly clueless on HRT and is pretty much letting me run the show, albeit slowly. I rely on this site and Dr. John's papers for my information. I asked my endo to write me a script for the .25 mg arimidex and 250 iu HCG every 3 days but am thinking of holding off on starting these two items until next week's trough blood test.

    By the way, the local Rite-Aid refused to give me the arimidex, stating that it was not an product for males. Apparently my endo will have to do something called a pre-authorization with my insurance company. Anybody run into this problem as well?

    -Blesum

    To go directly to the update post in this thread, click here: E2 question, Test Cyp Results, do I Need Arimidex? Pharm Won't Give It...
    Last edited by Blesum; 03-01-2007 at 07:48 PM.


  2. Quote Originally Posted by Blesum
    Estradiol came out above normal parameters (13-54) at 60 pg.ml. Is this the same thing as E2 and/or Estrogen. I can't seem to find anything here that clearly explains this.
    Estradiol is the same as E2. I have been started out at .25mg every three days of Arimidex. I believe that it is a safe starting dose. I think that you are really going to appreciate getting your E2 down from that high of a level.
    •   
       


  3. If you can, try do .65ml.

  4. Quote Originally Posted by ItsHectic
    If you can, try do .65ml.
    Of test cyp, and forgo the Arimidex? at .75ml of Test Cyp, I'm still nearly 300 Ng/dl below the upper acceptable threshold and have the impression that more testosterone is better overall for quality gains, focus, drive and strength.

    If it matters, I'm a bit gyno-prone as well so having a high estrogen level worries me.

    Also once the HCG is incorporated, would that help balance out/regulate the estradiol?

    -Blesum

  5. Quote Originally Posted by Blesum
    Been on HRT for the past 3 or so months.

    Androgel at 5g, test actually dropped.

    Test Cyp at .5ml once a week gave me a trough reading of 338 ng/dl total test, 2.23% free so the Endo told me to up my injections to .75 ml.

    At .75ml once a week and a peak draw gave me a 830 ng/dl total test, 2.09 free.

    SHBG unknown until the recent .75ml peak draw, came out to 25nmol/L which is mid-range (5-49).

    Estradiol came out above normal parameters (13-54) at 60 pg.ml. Is this the same thing as E2 and/or Estrogen. I can't seem to find anything here that clearly explains this.

    Should I go ahead with .25 mg arimidex every 3 days or do I need to take anything else into consideration?

    My endo is admittedly clueless on HRT and is pretty much letting me run the show, albeit slowly. I rely on this site and Dr. John's papers for my information. I asked my endo to write me a script for the .25 mg arimidex and 250 iu HCG every 3 days but am thinking of holding off on starting these two items until next week's trough blood test.

    By the way, the local Rite-Aid refused to give me the arimidex, stating that it was not an product for males. Apparently my endo will have to do something called a pre-authorization with my insurance company. Anybody run into this problem as well?

    -Blesum
    Did Rite-Aid refuse you or your insurance I never had a problem with my insurance. Once a Drug Store refused to fill a script for me on Arimidex and I just went down the street the next one took my money. You get the script they don't think the Dr. did the right thing and will not fill it until they can call your Dr.

    When my E2 was high I started on .5mgs everyday for 4 weeks then tested. I came down from 90 to 24. I had ED, could not have sex with my wife for 10 yrs. with out using a penis pump to pump it up and a ring to keep it up. But this kept her happy I could not reach an orgasm and kept this from my wife. Getting my E2 down all my problems with ED, no orgasms, bad rashes, panic attacks in the middle of the night, feeling hot all day and night looking like I had a sun burn, low pain in my groin with slow voiding and bad brain fog are all gone getting E2 "Estradiol" down.

    The first thing that came back after not having them for over 30 yrs. was morning wood I now know this for me means my E2 is in the Zone or good.

    I would say for you to start at .5mgs every otherday and when wood comes go down to .25mgs. every 3 days keep getting it tested to be sure you don't go to low. For me when my morning wood stops I am going to low. So I stop the meds untill wood comes back then I go back on it but do a lower dose like .25mgs. every 5 days.
    Phil
    •   
       


  6. Dr. John,

    I believe it was an ultra sensitive assay. I gave him your print outs and mentioned you. He had heard of you previously, said I was not his first patient to bring you up, and agreed with me that you were not some internet quack. I asked him for an ultra sensitive assay on all of my blood work from that point and on. I'm looking at all of my test results and I cannot find any mention of the words "ultra sensitive" though. The tests were done by Quest. How do I find out if they were indeed ultra sensitive assays?

    I'm looking at my lab request for my next test, in a few days and he has these checked off: Estradiol, IGF-I, Testosterone Total (but then he crossed that off and went to the next one below it), Test FR & TOT LC/MS/MS. I do note that Cortisol, total and cortisol, free 24 hr are not checked and these results are discussed here frequently. Should I ask him to add these to the tests, and do I need to ask him to change anything on this test to make it ultra sensitive?

    -Blesum

  7. Quote Originally Posted by pmgamer18
    Did Rite-Aid refuse you or your insurance I never had a problem with my insurance.

    The first thing that came back after not having them for over 30 yrs. was morning wood I now know this for me means my E2 is in the Zone or good.

    I'm not quite sure who it was that refused me. They had a print out that I saw across the counter regarding this and it basically said this product could not be given to males in bold letters. I told them that if it was in insurance thing, I wanted to know the full price and that I might be willing to pay for all of it out of my pocket to avoid the complications of waiting and getting a pre-authorization. They said no, they couldn't do that. That's why I'm a bit unsure. I hope to have this sorted out sometime this week and will wait for my next E2 results before taking the Armidex just to be sure I really do need it.

    I'm hesitating on starting on the Armidex because of what you said about ED, Pmgamer18. I'm in my early 30's and my sex drive is that of a teenager ever since starting HRT. At 1 AM this morning I went at it with a girl I had in bed. 1 hour of screwing before I got tired enough to end things. At 5 A.M. she kicked me out of my bed because I started humping her again. Now I'm looking for internet porn and will most likely jump back in bed with her once I see her waking up in a few hours. I typically need to bust a nut at least twice a day. I'm a walking hormone these days.

    This stuff is awesome.

    -Blesum

  8. Quote Originally Posted by Blesum
    I'm not quite sure who it was that refused me. They had a print out that I saw across the counter regarding this and it basically said this product could not be given to males in bold letters. I told them that if it was in insurance thing, I wanted to know the full price and that I might be willing to pay for all of it out of my pocket to avoid the complications of waiting and getting a pre-authorization. They said no, they couldn't do that. That's why I'm a bit unsure. I hope to have this sorted out sometime this week and will wait for my next E2 results before taking the Armidex just to be sure I really do need it.

    I'm hesitating on starting on the Armidex because of what you said about ED, Pmgamer18. I'm in my early 30's and my sex drive is that of a teenager ever since starting HRT. At 1 AM this morning I went at it with a girl I had in bed. 1 hour of screwing before I got tired enough to end things. At 5 A.M. she kicked me out of my bed because I started humping her again. Now I'm looking for internet porn and will most likely jump back in bed with her once I see her waking up in a few hours. I typically need to bust a nut at least twice a day. I'm a walking hormone these days.

    This stuff is awesome.

    -Blesum
    Glad its working out for you ever since my dr told me to cut the armidex in order to get accurate baseline reading it has been a one way trip straight to hell in a hand basket. No more morning wood. hypothryoid symptoms are worsen, memory confusion, joint pains, digestion problems white spots, on finger nails returned, stutering anything related to estrogen excess I got it. I think its the brand of Gel I am using more then anything Testocreme that is kicking up my levels and the armidex i was taking was blocking the efects of the increae of estrogen, But i have sneaking suspicion that my estroidal levels are going to be fine but the ratio to good to bad estrogen is going be skewed. So my question is this.

    Can a person have estrogen imbalnace despite having optimal estrodial, dht, total testosterone, but still have low free t because the fact is that the body has excess bad estrogen to good estrogen.

    And if you are going to have a blood test should you stop the DIM and if so how far out

  9. Quote Originally Posted by Blesum
    I'm not quite sure who it was that refused me. They had a print out that I saw across the counter regarding this and it basically said this product could not be given to males in bold letters. I told them that if it was in insurance thing, I wanted to know the full price and that I might be willing to pay for all of it out of my pocket to avoid the complications of waiting and getting a pre-authorization. They said no, they couldn't do that. That's why I'm a bit unsure. I hope to have this sorted out sometime this week and will wait for my next E2 results before taking the Armidex just to be sure I really do need it.

    I'm hesitating on starting on the Armidex because of what you said about ED, Pmgamer18. I'm in my early 30's and my sex drive is that of a teenager ever since starting HRT. At 1 AM this morning I went at it with a girl I had in bed. 1 hour of screwing before I got tired enough to end things. At 5 A.M. she kicked me out of my bed because I started humping her again. Now I'm looking for internet porn and will most likely jump back in bed with her once I see her waking up in a few hours. I typically need to bust a nut at least twice a day. I'm a walking hormone these days.

    This stuff is awesome.

    -Blesum
    After reading what you said why would you feel you need Arimidex. The first thing that goes wrong with high E2 is sex and if you do arimidex and being it down to low it's the sex that takes the hit.
    Phil

  10. Quote Originally Posted by Blesum
    I'm not quite sure who it was that refused me. They had a print out that I saw across the counter regarding this and it basically said this product could not be given to males in bold letters. I told them that if it was in insurance thing, I wanted to know the full price and that I might be willing to pay for all of it out of my pocket to avoid the complications of waiting and getting a pre-authorization. They said no, they couldn't do that. That's why I'm a bit unsure. I hope to have this sorted out sometime this week and will wait for my next E2 results before taking the Armidex just to be sure I really do need it.

    I'm hesitating on starting on the Armidex because of what you said about ED, Pmgamer18. I'm in my early 30's and my sex drive is that of a teenager ever since starting HRT. At 1 AM this morning I went at it with a girl I had in bed. 1 hour of screwing before I got tired enough to end things. At 5 A.M. she kicked me out of my bed because I started humping her again. Now I'm looking for internet porn and will most likely jump back in bed with her once I see her waking up in a few hours. I typically need to bust a nut at least twice a day. I'm a walking hormone these days.

    This stuff is awesome.

    -Blesum
    Your have a working system, try not to screw it up.
    Do few for my sake.
    ------------------------------------------
    Keep Arimidex as last resort medicine. It is strong, single purpose, hard to figure out the right dose.
    If you have to, use DIM. But I actually preffer
    Dual-Action Cruciferous Vegetable Extract With Resveratrol & Cat's Claw, 60 Vegetarian Capsules
    One pill per 160# of body weight, but I am 160# 2 pills works better for me as I have some E2 issues.
    ----------------------------------------------
    Keep your FreeT at 160-250, so your E2 will not become a problem.
    -----------------------------------------------
    Your doctor checked wrong Testosterone test. You still have a time to make correction.
    The correct test from Quest Diagnostics is

    Testosterone, LC/MS/MS
    Free, Bioavailable, and Total Testosterone

    ▪ Total: LC/MS/MS

    Free: calculated based on constants for the binding of testosterone to SHBG and albumin

    Bioavailable: calculated based on constants for the binding of testosterone to SHBG and albumin

    ▪ SHBG: immunochemiluminometric assay (ICMA)

    ▪ Albumin: spectrophotometry

    ▪ Aliases: free, weakly bound, and total testosterone

    ▪ CPT Codes*: 84403, 84270, 82040
    -----------------------------------------------------------
    Tests that they do at Quest diagnostics
    Quest Diagnostics: Interpretive Guide - Endocrinology
    ---------------------
    Clicking on Estradiol will put you here
    http://www.questdiagnostics.com/hcp/...3rdEd_2004.pdf
    They have a four tests for Estradiol
    You want the one on page 64, Estradiol, serum
    men range (10-50)
    -------------
    You write "Estradiol came out above normal parameters (13-54) at 60 pg.ml."
    I did a search of Quest Diagnostic Manual, there is nothing that have 13-54 range.
    You must have done your test somewhere else, or typo.
    -----------------------------------------------------------

  11. Quote Originally Posted by pmgamer18
    After reading what you said why would you feel you need Arimidex. The first thing that goes wrong with high E2 is sex and if you do arimidex and being it down to low it's the sex that takes the hit.
    Phil
    That's why I'm having a pause here. I just noted that my E2 were above the norm range and figured that it needed to be brought back down some.

    I do experience more fatigue than usual and attributed that to the higher estrogen levels. I normally wake up at 5 A.M. for my workouts, but for the past three or four weeks ever since a couple of weeks after the test cyp took hold, I find myself oversleeping to the point where the alarm wakes me up almost 2 hours past my usual waking time. Before this, I would only sleep that late once every two or so months if I stayed up late the night before. Now I'm oversleeping every morning...

    Still would like to get my RX filled so I have it on hand, and will wait for the next results to see what the numbers are. I also increased my fiber intake via one extra serving of oatmeal daily to see if that won't help bring down the estrogen some since I'm not too high past the normal limit.

    -Blesum

  12. Quote Originally Posted by Blesum
    That's why I'm having a pause here. I just noted that my E2 were above the norm range and figured that it needed to be brought back down some.

    I do experience more fatigue than usual and attributed that to the higher estrogen levels. I normally wake up at 5 A.M. for my workouts, but for the past three or four weeks ever since a couple of weeks after the test cyp took hold, I find myself oversleeping to the point where the alarm wakes me up almost 2 hours past my usual waking time. Before this, I would only sleep that late once every two or so months if I stayed up late the night before. Now I'm oversleeping every morning...

    Still would like to get my RX filled so I have it on hand, and will wait for the next results to see what the numbers are. I also increased my fiber intake via one extra serving of oatmeal daily to see if that won't help bring down the estrogen some since I'm not too high past the normal limit.

    -Blesum
    how much fiber are you eating ? serving oatmral is only 2-3 grams of fiber. you need 25-35grams a day total fiber. Insoluable fiber will help to reduce estrogen not soluable. Soluable fiber binds with cholesterol why it lowers cholesterol i bet you add a probiotic in there it will help ease the liver with estrogen detoxification since your bacterial flora in your gut help control estrogen levels through conjugation

  13. I missed everything you wrote below the "Do few for my sake" - I'm used to ignoring things below --------- because that's usually somebody's signature that's automatically put under what they write. I'm glad I went back to re-read everything and caught everything else you wrote.

    I will check out the vegetable extract.

    Free T is at 173.5 with a reference range of 35 and 155.

    You said to keep it between 160-250. Are you sure? I'm above the normal ranges already, and almost at the bottom of your recommended range.

    The test the doctor checked for the next blood draw is "36170 TEST FR&TOT LC/MS/MS" which seems to match what you are saying is the correct test. I cannot find #84403, 84270 or 82040 on the lab sheet.

    I do not see an option for SHBG, immoun or IMCA. I do see one for Albumin and it is not checked. Should I ask my Endo to change that? Please keep the advice and information coming.

    I'm rechecking the latest results to see if I made a typo now. The line says this exactly:
    ESTRADIOL 60 H PG/ML 13-54 EN

    The H means high - above their accepted parameters. Below that is my PSA, total (.3) and then my SHBG which came out at 25 nmol/L I guess they did test it the last time and maybe that's included with the testosterone test?

    Maybe they use different forms for different Quest labs? The Lab that is testing my blood is based in West Hills, CA.

    Anxiously awaiting a response,

    Blesum



    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz
    Your have a working system, try not to screw it up.
    Do few for my sake.
    ------------------------------------------
    Keep Arimidex as last resort medicine. It is strong, single purpose, hard to figure out the right dose.
    If you have to, use DIM. But I actually preffer
    Dual-Action Cruciferous Vegetable Extract With Resveratrol & Cat's Claw, 60 Vegetarian Capsules
    One pill per 160# of body weight, but I am 160# 2 pills works better for me as I have some E2 issues.
    ----------------------------------------------
    Keep your FreeT at 160-250, so your E2 will not become a problem.
    -----------------------------------------------
    Your doctor checked wrong Testosterone test. You still have a time to make correction.
    The correct test from Quest Diagnostics is

    Testosterone, LC/MS/MS
    Free, Bioavailable, and Total Testosterone

    ▪ Total: LC/MS/MS

    Free: calculated based on constants for the binding of testosterone to SHBG and albumin

    Bioavailable: calculated based on constants for the binding of testosterone to SHBG and albumin

    ▪ SHBG: immunochemiluminometric assay (ICMA)

    ▪ Albumin: spectrophotometry

    ▪ Aliases: free, weakly bound, and total testosterone

    ▪ CPT Codes*: 84403, 84270, 82040
    -----------------------------------------------------------
    Tests that they do at Quest diagnostics
    Quest Diagnostics: Interpretive Guide - Endocrinology
    ---------------------
    Clicking on Estradiol will put you here
    http://www.questdiagnostics.com/hcp/...3rdEd_2004.pdf
    They have a four tests for Estradiol
    You want the one on page 64, Estradiol, serum
    men range (10-50)
    -------------
    You write "Estradiol came out above normal parameters (13-54) at 60 pg.ml."
    I did a search of Quest Diagnostic Manual, there is nothing that have 13-54 range.
    You must have done your test somewhere else, or typo.
    -----------------------------------------------------------

  14. Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973
    how much fiber are you eating ? serving oatmral is only 2-3 grams of fiber. you need 25-35grams a day total fiber. Insoluable fiber will help to reduce estrogen not soluable. Soluable fiber binds with cholesterol why it lowers cholesterol i bet you add a probiotic in there it will help ease the liver with estrogen detoxification since your bacterial flora in your gut help control estrogen levels through conjugation
    I used to eat 1.5 cup a day. Now it's up to 3-4 cups. I also usually eat a cup of steamed broccoli twice a day. I thought I was doing pretty good. When I'm taking a caffeinated product, I also eat a whole large grapefruit in the morning.

    Probiotic as in yogurt? I googled it and ended up with a bunch of supplements. Suggestions?

    -Blesum

  15. Quote Originally Posted by Blesum
    I used to eat 1.5 cup a day. Now it's up to 3-4 cups. I also usually eat a cup of steamed broccoli twice a day. I thought I was doing pretty good. When I'm taking a caffeinated product, I also eat a whole large grapefruit in the morning.

    Probiotic as in yogurt? I googled it and ended up with a bunch of supplements. Suggestions?

    -Blesum
    Thats all soulable fiber !!!! you need some insoluable fiber look into hemp protein pwder its got 13 grams of insoluable fiber to it this way you can cut back to oatmeal to 1 -2 servings a day also too much soluable fiber from oats will bind your minerals because of high phytates. Plus taking caffine at same time you take multi -vitamin if you even take one you will just piss it right out. I see this all to many times. People drink coffe with multivitamin and wonder why they have mineral defiecincy. Shesh. eating too much of one type of grain can give you a nice food allergy as well which you be vulnerable to if you have hidden adrenal fatigue from the excesssive gluten..

    Insoluble fiber, on the other hand, can directly impact your hormone balance by helping decrease estrogen overload. In addition to flaxseed and wheat bran, insoluble fiber is also found in beans, seeds and the peels of fruits and vegetables. It doesn't dissolve in water and passes through your digestive system largely unchanged. What insoluble fiber does do is bind to extra estrogen in the digestive tract. This extra estrogen is later eliminated in the body through the feces... or, as our friend Arthur would say, "When you poop."

    I recommend consuming 1-2 servings of insoluble fiber and lignans per day. I suggest stirring or sprinkling 1- 2 tablespoons of flaxseed or sesame seeds into yogurt, smoothies, cottage cheese, salads or steamed vegetables. Another option is to eat a full bowl of bran cereal in the morning or as a mid- afternoon snack.

    Be interesting to see Peoples opinon on flax seeds LOL

  16. Multi 2x a day, once in morning with breakfast (either bowl of oatmeal and a shake, or 6-8 whole eggs) and once before going to sleep (with a BCAA shake).

    Beans... I'll pick up some today at the food store and try incorporating some into my diet. Probably the most cost-effective option.

    Wonder if Costco sells sesame seeds in bulk? I'll look into that too.

    -Blesum

  17. Quote Originally Posted by plymouth city
    Blesum, if your estradoil numbers are below 40 and your feeling good, no need for arimidex. Its all about feel.
    It was 60 at the last testing. We'll see what this tests will bring.

    -Blesum

  18. Quote Originally Posted by Blesum
    It was 60 at the last testing. We'll see what this tests will bring.

    -Blesum
    Whoa thats quite high. Any nipple sensitivity? Do you get morning wood?

  19. Quote Originally Posted by Blesum
    Multi 2x a day, once in morning with breakfast (either bowl of oatmeal and a shake, or 6-8 whole eggs) and once before going to sleep (with a BCAA shake).

    Beans... I'll pick up some today at the food store and try incorporating some into my diet. Probably the most cost-effective option.

    Wonder if Costco sells sesame seeds in bulk? I'll look into that too.

    -Blesum
    Organic flax seeds in a grinder after opening bag keep them refrigerated it perseves them better and less chance of going rancid. Add 1 TBSP gorund flax seed in your shakes this will be cheapest way to increase both soluable and insoluable fiber. Check to see if your multivitamin is chelated for for minerals oxides do not count. Even though your mulitvmitamin contains zinc if its in oxide for then the oatmeal could be binding it and you might want to try ZMA before bed may lower estrogen levels dues to fact it is needed for estrogen metabolism. Having high estrogen levels ont thing but having bad :good estrogen ratio high is even worse !! Excessive fat a meal will also bind with minerals in they are not in chelated form and it will create a soap in your intestinal track that will flush out the good minerals and prvent them from being absiorbed propeerly. Look into heart to heart by heathy choice gives you 5 grams fiber in the morning

  20. Quote Originally Posted by plymouth city
    Whoa thats quite high. Any nipple sensitivity? Do you get morning wood?

    Morning wood? I can't get rid of it.

    I do have fatigue and some bloating. No nipple sensitivity although I did get gyno nearly a year ago out of the blue for no obvious reasons. I had done a 3 week 10mg cycle of superdrol 9 months earlier though.

    HardAsNails, I take the costco multis. Kirkland Daily Vitamins and Minerals. How do I tell if they're chelated? I used to take Opti-Men as my multi but about two months after I started, I developed my gyno and decided to go with a more universal brand rather than take my chances. I'm sure Opti-Men is safe and does indeed only contain what it says it does but I didn't want to take chances.

    -Blesum

  21. Read back of label if it says zinc or magnesium oxide or just magnesium or zinc DUMP IT. Because mostlikely its a crapy form of the vitamin and people end up with mineral defiecincy despite taking multiivtamin and they wonder why they are sick for unknown reasons

    60 seems pretty high but from what Dr john describe it may be invalaid test for a male. I usually make sure my results come back 0-54 ranges to be accurate.

    To add for insurance policy take ZMA before bed 1-2 hours after last meal I have a feeling this may help lower estrogen levels a few point

    Age Erasers for Women Fiber

    If you are getting morning wood then one might leave estrogen and armidez alone until proper testing is done to verify if you need it. What is the purpose of hcg if you are already elevated free test levels? Is it to help your balls to keep there size. More so your free test levels will dicate ones erection control more so then serum testosterone. if you have estrogen problems your free testosterone is prbably on low normal with nomral to upper of total serum.

  22. HardAsNails, I also take the kirkland Calcium Citrate for the extra vit. D, Magnesium and Zinc twice a day with my multi and vit C. As far as fiber goes, I also eat a bunch of nuts (raw walnuts and almonds) throughout the day. Is that insoluble?

    -Blesum

  23. Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973
    Read back of label if it says zinc or magnesium oxide or just magnesium or zinc DUMP IT. Because mostlikely its a crapy form of the vitamin and people end up with mineral defiecincy despite taking multiivtamin and they wonder why they are sick for unknown reasons

    Multi says:

    Magnesium 100mg
    Zinc 22.5 mg

    Calcium citrate says:
    Magnesium 80mg
    Zinc 10mg

    Upon reading the ingredients, it does say that on both bottles that both are oxides.

    Opti-Men says:
    Magnesium (as magnesium oxide, aspartate) 100mg
    Zinc (as zinc citrate) 30mg

    -Blesum

  24. Quote Originally Posted by Blesum
    I missed everything you wrote below the "Do few for my sake" - I'm used to ignoring things below --------- because that's usually somebody's signature that's automatically put under what they write. I'm glad I went back to re-read everything and caught everything else you wrote.

    I will check out the vegetable extract.

    Free T is at 173.5 with a reference range of 35 and 155.

    You said to keep it between 160-250. Are you sure? I'm above the normal ranges already, and almost at the bottom of your recommended range.

    The test the doctor checked for the next blood draw is "36170 TEST FR&TOT LC/MS/MS" which seems to match what you are saying is the correct test. I cannot find #84403, 84270 or 82040 on the lab sheet.

    I do not see an option for SHBG, immoun or IMCA. I do see one for Albumin and it is not checked. Should I ask my Endo to change that? Please keep the advice and information coming.

    I'm rechecking the latest results to see if I made a typo now. The line says this exactly:
    ESTRADIOL 60 H PG/ML 13-54 EN

    The H means high - above their accepted parameters. Below that is my PSA, total (.3) and then my SHBG which came out at 25 nmol/L I guess they did test it the last time and maybe that's included with the testosterone test?

    Maybe they use different forms for different Quest labs? The Lab that is testing my blood is based in West Hills, CA.

    Anxiously awaiting a response,

    Blesum
    Q: "You said to keep it between 160-250. Are you sure? "
    A. Yes, for the type of test that I specified, which is the only test that is really applicable.
    Somebody who cannot do his tests at Quest Diagnostic, may calculate the FreeT himself
    using
    Free & Bioavailable Testosterone calculator
    and units converter
    http://www.get-back-on-track.com/en/tools/umrechner.php
    Just have TotalT, SHBG and Albumin from same blood draw.
    Btw, that is what Quest diagnostic does, in my previous post read text quoted from Quest Diagnostic.
    This FreeT test have range 46-224
    I got it here, column second off the right
    http://www.questdiagnostics.com/hcp/.../Table%201.pdf

    my numbers 160-250 come from Dr Shippen patient.
    --
    I only got all this after I learned a tinny bit on how Dr Shippen treats.
    -------
    Q.Free T is at 173.5 with a reference range of 35 and 155.
    A. You had a useless test done.
    Indeed that test have a range that you have mentioned, check third column off the right of above reference.
    Recently Dr John wrote:
    "And also, the Free T assay is not very reliable."

    Look up my note to Dr John today (Jan28/07) 4:00PM
    Avoiding excess conversion of testosterone into estradiol during testosterone treatme
    Wait and see his comment if any. Who knows, possibly I am all wet.

    Your FreeT was figured out by doing assay not a calculations.
    Do not get upset. Most everybody's FreeT is like that, including mine.
    But they are still useless.
    Read here:
    http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/reprint/86/6/2903.pdf
    Information travels slow. Most doctors do not know this.
    --
    With all this, working with how you feel and the FreeT that you got, you should keep what you doing with Testosterone, until next test, then re-evaluate.

    Not so easy answer with E2, but my best guess,
    I probably would got one pill daily of
    Dual-Action Cruciferous Vegetable Extract With Resveratrol & Cat's Claw
    as it probably would not hurt, but should help some. At some point other than E2 may start going out of hand, that is why they included stuff other than DIM in their pills.
    --------------------------------------------------------
    Q.The test the doctor checked for the next blood draw is "
    36170 TEST FR&TOT LC/MS/MS" which seems to match what you are saying is the correct test. I cannot find #84403, 84270 or 82040 on the lab sheet.

    A. Read again,
    you have: FR&TOT
    you want:Free, Bioavailable, and Total Testosterone
    With this test they will know your
    TotalTestosterone
    SHBG and Albumin
    before they can calculate FreeT and Bioavailable T
    I have not ordered tests for Quest Diagnostics, so I do not know mechanics of ordering.
    I would appreciate if you reply with those details once you learn them. Till now I had tests done thru LabCorp. They require special forms and if required test is not on the form (so the box could be checked out) the doctor/nurse can write them in (small) space that is provided.
    My next test will be at Quest Diagnostics.

    ============================== =============
    I am not a doctor, I just wish you the best.
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