Testosterone cream and progesterone - AnabolicMinds.com

Testosterone cream and progesterone

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    Testosterone cream and progesterone


    I had my levels tested by both blood and saliva.....My saliva tests revealed a spike in cortisol in the afternoon, and a deficency in progesterone....

    I was testing also because I was considering using Finasteride (propecia) for hairloss....When I found that I was defecient in progesterone, and that progesterone was a 5ar inhibitor, I decised to get some (prog) compounded instead of using propecia....

    My testos. levels are in the normal range, but the low side of the scale..I got a script from my doc and got some testosterone cream compounded....It has 25 mg of test , 2 mg of progesterone per applicationb....

    I started to get cysts on my face, unacceptable, and waited a month and a half for them to subside and it didnt happen...attributed to increased sebum produced by the test cream...we decided to drop the dose to 12.5 mg daily, but was warne3d of gyno.....now I am feeling sore in my aerola area...

    My goals are to increase muscle mass, and limit/control dht/estrogen/cortisol.....Increase li8bido, mental acquity etc.....

    Also started thyroid and adrenal support....

    Talked to one guy, who advocted 'roids, said to NOT use progesterone, and that it causes gyno, and to replace the progesterone with arimidex...

    I saw mention of Dr Shippen on these boards....My compounding pharmacist theories run parallel with his, and has affiliation with life extension...

    Im shooting for balance, not super mass....clear skin and no gyno is a requirement...

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    anybody...?
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    May suggest your drs to do a 24 hour urine test ypur hormones it will give you more of an average over the day rather then space and time. Salvia for progesterone is not a valid test for hormones other then cortisol. You may want to examine your thyroid and other factors that could be affecting test levels (lh, sbhg, dhea, estrodial, ft3, ft4,dht, prolactin_ Ferritin levels can also affect hair loss as well as cortisol imbalnces
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    Been takin iodine for 2 mos....and just started thyroid last week @1/2 tab daily.....my temp was 97.4 this am.....

    Also taking adrenal pills and drops , and a top probiotic....

    Since the inception of the thyroid, fallin asleep during the day....adrenal fatigue....

    My questions:

    -All the above factors effect the urine test you recommend...?

    -Does progesterone supplementation cause gyno...?

    -test. cream (bio-id) at 25 mg daily....this enough to cause cysts on my face....? and if it was, what counteracts it at that dose....?

    -Arimidex necessary at 25 mg daily..? at 12.5mg?
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    Quote Originally Posted by christopher
    Been takin iodine for 2 mos....and just started thyroid last week @1/2 tab daily.....my temp was 97.4 this am.....

    Also taking adrenal pills and drops , and a top probiotic....

    Since the inception of the thyroid, fallin asleep during the day....adrenal fatigue....

    My questions:

    -All the above factors effect the urine test you recommend...?

    -Does progesterone supplementation cause gyno...?

    -test. cream (bio-id) at 25 mg daily....this enough to cause cysts on my face....? and if it was, what counteracts it at that dose....?



    -Arimidex necessary at 25 mg daily..? at 12.5mg?
    Have you been cliincal tested for adrenal fatigue via saliva testing?

    Did you have the iodoral loading test with 50 mgs iodine and then have your levels measured via 24 hour urine to indicate if there is a need for the iodine. When I deal with clients I base suggestions based upon clinical testing results that way there are no guessing games and Variables can be tracked and monitored on current suggested and everything is balance. People just start shot gunning supplements with out knowing the biochemical interations between nutrients and other bodily harm that they can do if they are not needed. For example if you are low on copper, vitamin E, vitamin D you will not be able to up take the iodine in your body to even ultize it People with elevated estrogen also are mainly depleted in vitamin E, coenzyme q10, b-5, zinc, b-6, mag, selenium due to fact it increases lipid perioxidation and free radicals. If your estrogen are high then that would be the probably source of your probably or your liver detoxifcation is sluggish which cause body to build up estrogen levels bogging down thyroid even more and so the cycle begins, then it drains adrenals then you are up the creek with out a paddle
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973
    Have you been cliincal tested for adrenal fatigue via saliva testing?

    Did you have the iodoral loading test with 50 mgs iodine and then have your levels measured via 24 hour urine to indicate if there is a need for the iodine. When I deal with clients I base suggestions based upon clinical testing results that way there are no guessing games and Variables can be tracked and monitored on current suggested and everything is balance. People just start shot gunning supplements with out knowing the biochemical interations between nutrients and other bodily harm that they can do if they are not needed. For example if you are low on copper, vitamin E, vitamin D you will not be able to up take the iodine in your body to even ultize it People with elevated estrogen also are mainly depleted in vitamin E, coenzyme q10, b-5, zinc, b-6, mag, selenium due to fact it increases lipid perioxidation and free radicals. If your estrogen are high then that would be the probably source of your probably or your liver detoxifcation is sluggish which cause body to build up estrogen levels bogging down thyroid even more and so the cycle begins, then it drains adrenals then you are up the creek with out a paddle

    never had the loading test, just prescribed the iodine as a precursor to the thyroid....instructed to take it for 2 weeks proior to thyroid.....

    the depletions you mention,maybe....we strenghtened the probiotic....liver detox is a possibility and mentioned as a cause.....

    Alll points back to estrogen and arimidex....?

    The fact is that my nips are sore and that the 25 mg dose of test cream gave my 3 cysts in 2 mos on my face....so that had to do with the liver and sebum production or too high of a dose.....so cut the dose in half and now have sore nips and i dont want gyno so i have to do something now....

    confused as to why 25 mg would give me cysts anyway...?

    And why a drop in only 12.5 mg daily would cause aromatse enough to have sore nips...?
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    Quote Originally Posted by christopher
    never had the loading test, just prescribed the iodine as a precursor to the thyroid....instructed to take it for 2 weeks proior to thyroid.....

    the depletions you mention,maybe....we strenghtened the probiotic....liver detox is a possibility and mentioned as a cause.....

    Alll points back to estrogen and arimidex....?

    The fact is that my nips are sore and that the 25 mg dose of test cream gave my 3 cysts in 2 mos on my face....so that had to do with the liver and sebum production or too high of a dose.....so cut the dose in half and now have sore nips and i dont want gyno so i have to do something now....

    confused as to why 25 mg would give me cysts anyway...?

    And why a drop in only 12.5 mg daily would cause aromatse enough to have sore nips...?
    What basis are you taking armidex for? taking armidex if not needed could be driving estrogen to low and increasing progesterone even more. Even rare but you may be progesterone sensitive and not excessive estrogen. Need more information on this. You need to examine your diet and lifestyle as well as sleep patterns could be a signaficant factor as well. i just do not like to suggest anything to any one with out having valid reasoning or testing to support. Number one thing is that you need to detoxify the colon before dexotifying the liver. Get your colon moving then open up the kidneys so when the liver is ready to dump its bile it can have elination pathways wide open with out it recirulating back to the liver again.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973
    What basis are you taking armidex for? taking armidex if not needed could be driving estrogen to low and increasing progesterone even more. Even rare but you may be progesterone sensitive and not excessive estrogen. Need more information on this. You need to examine your diet and lifestyle as well as sleep patterns could be a signaficant factor as well. i just do not like to suggest anything to any one with out having valid reasoning or testing to support. Number one thing is that you need to detoxify the colon before dexotifying the liver. Get your colon moving then open up the kidneys so when the liver is ready to dump its bile it can have elination pathways wide open with out it recirulating back to the liver again.

    doubt that I am progesterone sensitive, cause I was using a bio-id progesterone cream for 2 mos before starting the test therapy (the test cream includes progesterone also)...

    The reason I am considering arimidex is because reducing my test dose for 25mg to 12.5 mg gave me sore nips....

    My diet is pretty good....all the whey super mass and lean and fit for 2 meals a day, the others are high protein and complex carbs....eliminated bad sources of omega 6 and supplement w/borage and also fish for 3 omegas....

    Take an excellent multi which should eliminate most nutrient defeciencies.......

    Sluggish in the afternoon, as per cortisol testing suggests, levels spike in the afternoon....

    But back to the progesterone and testosterone,,,,,dont wanna get gyno and dont know for sure what to do...thought about going back up to the 25 mg daily dose until i figure this out....but the high dose gave me skin eruptions....although it could have possibly been related to diet and stress over the holidays...ate lots of peanuts and my diet was lacking....could have been the reason for the clogged pores and hence the cyst...or maybe it was the test or ???????

    Just cant handle gettin gyno!!!!!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by christopher
    doubt that I am progesterone sensitive, cause I was using a bio-id progesterone cream for 2 mos before starting the test therapy (the test cream includes progesterone also)...

    The reason I am considering arimidex is because reducing my test dose for 25mg to 12.5 mg gave me sore nips....

    My diet is pretty good....all the whey super mass and lean and fit for 2 meals a day, the others are high protein and complex carbs....eliminated bad sources of omega 6 and supplement w/borage and also fish for 3 omegas....

    Take an excellent multi which should eliminate most nutrient defeciencies.......

    Sluggish in the afternoon, as per cortisol testing suggests, levels spike in the afternoon....

    But back to the progesterone and testosterone,,,,,dont wanna get gyno and dont know for sure what to do...thought about going back up to the 25 mg daily dose until i figure this out....but the high dose gave me skin eruptions....although it could have possibly been related to diet and stress over the holidays...ate lots of peanuts and my diet was lacking....could have been the reason for the clogged pores and hence the cyst...or maybe it was the test or ???????

    Just cant handle gettin gyno!!!!!!!
    craving for fat/salt is sgn od adrenal fatigue. if you have adrenal issues majority of people have insulin imbalnaces as well. Some thing you might want to check into. some times when you get to proper test dosage your estrogen actually drops SURPRISE SURPRISE. Here is my thing if your testosterone is not at optimal level after being adjusted on the creme and estrogen is still elevated instead of putting another drug into you. might switch to injections that should lower the estrogen in many cases. Adrenal/thyroid/inuslin/testosterone/estrogen are all interlinked. Have you looked into dhea-s serums? IMO you need to get a betteroveral picture of total hormones and whats going on. Dr. john would hopefully agree with me there
    Hint : if liver cant not detoxify the effects are seen on the largest organ of the body . Have you been checked for food allergies? Sounds to me more like an alergic reaction going on there. Drs over look the most simpliest things some times.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973
    craving for fat/salt is sgn od adrenal fatigue. if you have adrenal issues majority of people have insulin imbalnaces as well. Some thing you might want to check into. some times when you get to proper test dosage your estrogen actually drops SURPRISE SURPRISE. Here is my thing if your testosterone is not at optimal level after being adjusted on the creme and estrogen is still elevated instead of putting another drug into you. might switch to injections that should lower the estrogen in many cases. Adrenal/thyroid/inuslin/testosterone/estrogen are all interlinked. Have you looked into dhea-s serums? IMO you need to get a betteroveral picture of total hormones and whats going on. Dr. john would hopefully agree with me there
    Hint : if liver cant not detoxify the effects are seen on the largest organ of the body . Have you been checked for food allergies? Sounds to me more like an alergic reaction going on there. Drs over look the most simpliest things some times.

    The better overall picture is what im trying to achieve.....Any suggestions...? I got enough general knowledge to make me dangerous....I'd love to hear what Dr. John thinks....
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    and thankx for the replies...
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    Quote Originally Posted by christopher
    The better overall picture is what im trying to achieve.....Any suggestions...? I got enough general knowledge to make me dangerous....I'd love to hear what Dr. John thinks....
    it sounds like the dr is trying to help but they may not have expertise it takes. Most drs are scared to have me as a patient because of what i know and they know i am not blowing smoke up there but because i will back it up with concrete eveidence from reliable sources. Dr wanted to stick me on paxil. I said whats your reasoning "he told me I was depressed" do you have clinical evidence to back that up. He just stood there with a blank look on his face. Sent me to Psychiatrist her diagnosis to dr "I wish i had cases as easy as him he one of the most pleasant and balanced people i have had in a long time". Came into him next appointment did not say word. Now if drs would hand out armour thyroid like they do paxil then we be headed in right direction LOL
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973
    it sounds like the dr is trying to help but they may not have expertise it takes. Most drs are scared to have me as a patient because of what i know and they know i am not blowing smoke up there but because i will back it up with concrete eveidence from reliable sources. Dr wanted to stick me on paxil. I said whats your reasoning "he told me I was depressed" do you have clinical evidence to back that up. He just stood there with a blank look on his face. Sent me to Psychiatrist her diagnosis to dr "I wish i had cases as easy as him he one of the most pleasant and balanced people i have had in a long time". Came into him next appointment did not say word. Now if drs would hand out armour thyroid like they do paxil then we be headed in right direction LOL

    I know she has the expertise, I dont have the patience or the trust/faith.....Had some bad experiences w/docs in the past...Not w/her, but w /others.....

    I've been told that I was lots of things by lots of docs and also told to go on meds and never did, many of the same reason u listed above......

    A comprehensive understanding of the human endocrine system is one thing.....individual and case specific application is another....

    I went back and reread the email to drop the dose to 12.5....i was warned to watch for gyno due to DECREASED estrogen at the lower dose....and to use crucifous vegs from life extensions (as well as progesterone) to control....

    Conversly, the guy that recommended arimidex is a bodybuilder that 'riods all the time....my bio id never recommended this.....I like to get opinions from lots of sources...

    I think my lady is one of the best there is......I'm just not the most trusting of patients....There are so many varying opinions and philosophies, and one has a responsibilkity, IMO, to educate himself....So , if it comes off like I dont have faith in my doc, thats not the case....Just tryin to understand better myself w/out bothering her all the time...
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    "Conversly, the guy that recommended arimidex is a bodybuilder that 'riods all the time....my bio id never recommended this.....I like to get opinions from lots of sources"

    i agree my faith in medical drs are out the door. Dr wanted to stick my mom on paxil she came back crying thinking that she was mentally ill. I looked at her thyroid test and nearly blew my stack she was at the lowest the range can go. Her cholesterol was high, triglycerides, ldl, were all high as well as homocystein, but dr ignored all of it. I stuck her on armour thyroid with adrenal support and in two month she went dr. Cholesterol dropped 60 points, all other test results were back in the mid range where they be long and dr said "that paxil must be working well" She told him that she throw it a way and my son was correcting my thyroid and adrenals. Dr had nothing to say. She is now with my dr and appluad me for taking charge because not to many people do. It took me almost 3 years to find a good dr then my freaken insurance ran out. Any one in philadelphia area i would be glad to recommend him. He also doe nutrient.mineral analysis which are a core of his program as well that really show vital information. Nice part he is a MD of internal medicine and knows about herbs and alterative solutions
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    Dr Shippen is from Phila area....you using him....?
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    Quote Originally Posted by christopher
    Dr Shippen is from Phila area....you using him....?
    This guy is I had no clue he was right in my back yard
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    His # is 610.777.7896

    $500 initial consultation....no insurance accepted...
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    and probably 6 months waiting list..
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    about 2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. John
    By all means, see Dr. Shippen if you can!



    "i was warned to watch for gyno due to DECREASED estrogen at the lower dose"

    What?
    Thats typical meat head mentalilty with out an scientific basis LOL. Dr john will have a field day with this one a DO told a 20 year old boy you uses anabolics to stay on constantly 200 mgs of test a week it will preserve his natural testosterone levls from falling. First of all i told the boy if he wants to have no nuts and to be on hormone therapy for rest of his life he better re evaluate his situation and get proper medical advice First of all I do not condone steroid use by any one that is by choice, but for a DO to tell a 20 year old boy alone any way one not in need of TRT to stay on 200 mgs a week to preserve natural test levels needs to have head examined. i know anabolics is not do beconfused with TRT but to make a comment about that is riduculous

    estrogen is a compenent being researched for altzhiers disease and short term memory
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. John
    By all means, see Dr. Shippen if you can!

    He'll probably tell you it's the progesterone. The increase in dose may have put you over the edge.

    Dr. Shippen will tell you the saliva tests are nonsense. AND that you should NO WAY take an AI without LEGITIMATE evidence of elevated estrogens. I know, because we have discussed this stuff at length.

    In fact, he gave an excellent lecture at A4M recently where he talked about how important E is to brain function, as well as cardiovascular health, etc.

    I will also tell you Dr. Shippen is as uncomfortable giving AI's as I am.

    "i was warned to watch for gyno due to DECREASED estrogen at the lower dose"

    What?

    Hey, Thankx for the response Dr. John....I have been reading alot of your posts.....

    I have talked w/his office in the past....As I said, $500 and then wait 3 mos for a follow-up...phone consults are $100 w/DR Shippen after the consult, or you can contact his nurse....

    when you said the "he'll probably tell you that its the progesterone", What exactly do you mean here? My dose didnt increase (of progesterone), just testosterone was decreased, and I was warned to watch for gyno....that confuses me......I hear conflicting stands on progesterone and it use in males....I know that it will inhibit aromatase and also work as effectively or more effectively against 5ar than finasteride, a drug that I would never take....

    """Dr. Shippen will tell you the saliva tests are nonsense."" Thats where it was determined that I was below the normal range...and also why I got it bio-id replaced and didnt worry about the fin issue any more....Now, Im hearing that its unnecessary to supplement progesterone, the tests were possibly inaccurate, and that progesterone causes gyno in some cases....

    Can you offer a guess as to what caused the cyst....? The dose? or the progersterone...?or diet and stress...?

    Should I eliminate the 2mg of progesterone from the test cream...? It also has chrysis in it, 100 mg i thinkk? And if I eliminate the progesterone, do I need to take anything in its place...?dual action cruciferous extract caps? spruce lignans...? nettle..?Is the dose too high...? Im sure you need my bloodwork to determine that....Im 37 and I think test was 525.....Ill hAVE to look tomorrow...

    And finally, the test cream tells the body to not produce test on its own, correct...? for this reason, do I need to take anything, or perhaps cycle its application...?

    Thanks again for the response...
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    Quote Originally Posted by christopher
    Hey, Thankx for the response Dr. John....I have been reading alot of your posts.....

    I have talked w/his office in the past....As I said, $500 and then wait 3 mos for a follow-up...phone consults are $100 w/DR Shippen after the consult, or you can contact his nurse....

    when you said the "he'll probably tell you that its the progesterone", What exactly do you mean here? My dose didnt increase (of progesterone), just testosterone was decreased, and I was warned to watch for gyno....that confuses me......I hear conflicting stands on progesterone and it use in males....I know that it will inhibit aromatase and also work as effectively or more effectively against 5ar than finasteride, a drug that I would never take....

    """Dr. Shippen will tell you the saliva tests are nonsense."" Thats where it was determined that I was below the normal range...and also why I got it bio-id replaced and didnt worry about the fin issue any more....Now, Im hearing that its unnecessary to supplement progesterone, the tests were possibly inaccurate, and that progesterone causes gyno in some cases....

    Can you offer a guess as to what caused the cyst....? The dose? or the progersterone...?or diet and stress...?

    Should I eliminate the 2mg of progesterone from the test cream...? It also has chrysis in it, 100 mg i thinkk? And if I eliminate the progesterone, do I need to take anything in its place...?dual action cruciferous extract caps? spruce lignans...? nettle..?Is the dose too high...? Im sure you need my bloodwork to determine that....Im 37 and I think test was 525.....Ill hAVE to look tomorrow...

    And finally, the test cream tells the body to not produce test on its own, correct...? for this reason, do I need to take anything, or perhaps cycle its application...?

    Thanks again for the response...
    If i remember the correct pathway but progesterone can also be diverted to estrogen and cause your boobies to be sentiive Different pathways for different folks
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. John
    I don't worry about that. Progesterone has its own feminizing effects, besides inhibiting DHT (so aiding estrogen in at least four different ways).

    There are five things progesterone does to you which are bad. I was asked on stage in Las Vegas last month to comment on Dr. Thierry Hertoghe's advice to give progesterone to men. I responded:

    "If you want plaque in your arteries and wrinkles in your penis, take progesterone."

    So, basically, get the test compounded w/out the progesterone.....?

    And as for the other issues...?
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    "If you want plaque in your arteries and wrinkles in your penis, take progesterone."[/QUOTE]

    If you did not think we had problems already we need that on top LOL I tell the girls at the gym I got my creames and my little blue pills I am all set
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    Quote Originally Posted by christopher
    Hey, Thankx for the response Dr. John....I have been reading alot of your posts.....

    I have talked w/his office in the past....As I said, $500 and then wait 3 mos for a follow-up...phone consults are $100 w/DR Shippen after the consult, or you can contact his nurse....

    when you said the "he'll probably tell you that its the progesterone", What exactly do you mean here? My dose didnt increase (of progesterone), just testosterone was decreased, and I was warned to watch for gyno....that confuses me......I hear conflicting stands on progesterone and it use in males....I know that it will inhibit aromatase and also work as effectively or more effectively against 5ar than finasteride, a drug that I would never take....

    """Dr. Shippen will tell you the saliva tests are nonsense."" Thats where it was determined that I was below the normal range...and also why I got it bio-id replaced and didnt worry about the fin issue any more....Now, Im hearing that its unnecessary to supplement progesterone, the tests were possibly inaccurate, and that progesterone causes gyno in some cases....

    Can you offer a guess as to what caused the cyst....? The dose? or the progersterone...?or diet and stress...?

    Should I eliminate the 2mg of progesterone from the test cream...? It also has chrysis in it, 100 mg i thinkk? And if I eliminate the progesterone, do I need to take anything in its place...?dual action cruciferous extract caps? spruce lignans...? nettle..?Is the dose too high...? Im sure you need my bloodwork to determine that....Im 37 and I think test was 525.....Ill hAVE to look tomorrow...

    And finally, the test cream tells the body to not produce test on its own, correct...? for this reason, do I need to take anything, or perhaps cycle its application...?

    Thanks again for the response...
    bump for Dr John.....
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. John
    Please do not bump your own post within 24 hours. I already have an 80 hour work-week.

    If some portion of your long post has not been answered, please specify what questions remain. I do not have time to go all through a long post and cross-check to see which questions I have answered and which I have not.

    You are also going to have to read answers here more carefully, and give them a bit of thought.

    Thank you.

    Understood...
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    Talking


    It comes down to this for me....

    I dont want to lose hair....
    I wont take fin or dut......
    I tested saliva and was below the normal range for progesterone, a natural 5 ar and aromatase inhibitor....
    I briefly supplemented a bio-identically compounded progesterone cream @ 2 mg daily....Had no visible effects, pos or neg, in that 2 mo period...no noticable changes...
    I then replaced the cream w/a bio-id comp. test/progesterone compound @ 25/2 mg daily...I had noticed changes there.....Felt better in the am upon arising....mornin wood again...but also got a cyst on my nose, which felt as if it formed from the inside of my nose and then went outward....and eventually a large on on my eyebrow....Way to vain to get a cyst....So I was told to cut the dose in half, 12.5 mg daily, but to watch for gyno....WHY....Because of the decrease in testosterone like coming off a cycle...? (which I have never done 'roids btw) or because the progesterone dose was lowered...? Then I started readin and was told that progesterone itself can cause gyno, amnd was told that saliva tests were to be veiwed cautiously...I have been told the same about bloodwork....

    So, Im confused....

    Get a test cream compounded w/out progesterone...? And if I do, and I am defecient in progesterone, then the aromotase and 5ar will cause excess estrogen at what dose...alll?

    what is the acceptable TRT daily dose and what level (blood test) is appropriate/striven for a healthy active 37 yr old male....? And does it need to be cycled....?

    Best guess, were the clogged pores that turned to cysts from too high a dose of test, progesterone, diet, stress, or my body detox...a combination of all...?

    I'm shooting for balance....Clear skin, muscle mass, low BF, mental acquity, and stopping hairloss.....


    THANKX
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    Please corect me on this Dr john, but can Dim increase progesterone so you body can help balance its self out. Zinc can increase progesterone as well. Have you looked at your copper levels since copper and estrogen do run parellel in the body? You might be binding up copper in your liver and if you have adrenal fatigue it is not being released into the blood stream so you have both a copper over load and biological deficeincy. Know what helps my morning wood methycolboloamin it all comes back to the liver my freind !!
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973
    Please corect me on this Dr john, but can Dim increase progesterone so you body can help balance its self out. Zinc can increase progesterone as well. Have you looked at your copper levels since copper and estrogen do run parellel in the body? You might be binding up copper in your liver and if you have adrenal fatigue it is not being released into the blood stream so you have both a copper over load and biological deficeincy. Know what helps my morning wood methycolboloamin it all comes back to the liver my freind !!

    Thanks for the response man.....My lady pointed to perhaps the reason for the cyst was the liver detox thru the skin....Plus I got a huge jar of cashews for Christmas and ate them all!!!! (No more cashews for me )))

    I started w/ my thyroid pills @1/2 tab daily about a week ago....First day I literally fell asleep at 1 pm...started on the adrenals and takin a pill 3x daily along with drops 2 x daily...has only been a couple of days...

    I've been readin alot here about estrogens bieng too low is just as bad as too high.....

    The progesterone issue has me the most confused, and to what level to try to inhibit aromatse and 5ar.....I liked the idea of substituting progesterone for fin / dut...especially if I was deficient....I also like the idea of a higher dose of test, but...see above....

    Still into achieving balance, except for perhaps test, that I wouldnt mind have running a bit high....
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. John
    You were already told, in this thread, that progesterone via saliva testing is not valid. Yet you continue speaking of it.

    If you aren't willing to even read what others have taken the time to answer for you, then kindly do not waste any more of same. No one is getting paid here to help you. You have to AT LEAST make an effort to help yourself.
    24 hour piss test by Rheine Labs would be highly suggestable test to verify those progesterone levels, Chriistopher your circular thinking patterns remind me of a classic asperger syndrome and undermethylayion of liver. You may want to look at your histamine levels via urine i bet they are off the freaken charts !! If they are then that tells you right there you are undermethylated and could be majority of your problem. People that are undermethylated have problems with hormone binding from serum too receptors. Hence have normal cortisol levels via serum, but saliva levels for CORTISOL only would be low. Get salvia levels check ASAP. If they are low your serotonin will mostly be as well. Simple fact excess cortisol causes depression is because it causes tryptopphan to be diverted from serotonin production to other metabolites via Tryptophan pyrrolase. Little do most psychatist ever take this into consideration and just stick you on paxil and on your way..Correcting the adrenal fatigue (through psychotherapy, lifestyle changes ) and adding little 5htp or trytophan will correct this majority of cases
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. John
    You were already told, in this thread, that progesterone via saliva testing is not valid. Yet you continue speaking of it.

    If you aren't willing to even read what others have taken the time to answer for you, then kindly do not waste any more of same. No one is getting paid here to help you. You have to AT LEAST make an effort to help yourself.
    And I said that it was valid when....?

    I am trying to determine what caused the cyst, If progesterone, WHETER IM DEFECIENT OR NOT, is necessary inTRT.....(My compounding pharmacist adds it to ALL of her test creams, regardless of defeciency)and what dose I should be on, what blood test level of test to seek etc.....Your response said that my neg. reaction was from increased dose....I never increased dose....

    """""The progesterone issue has me the most confused, and to what level to try to inhibit aromatse and 5ar.....I liked the idea of substituting progesterone for fin / dut...especially if I was deficient....I also like the idea of a higher dose of test, but...see above""""""

    I said IF I was defecient....

    I have taken the time to read and reread the posts....And I didnt know that you had to pay for advice on this forum...?


    """You have to AT LEAST make an effort to help yourself""""

    What?
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973
    24 hour piss test by Rheine Labs would be highly suggestable test to verify those progesterone levels, Chriistopher your circular thinking patterns remind me of a classic asperger syndrome and undermethylayion of liver. You may want to look at your histamine levels via urine i bet they are off the freaken charts !! If they are then that tells you right there you are undermethylated and could be majority of your problem. People that are undermethylated have problems with hormone binding from serum too receptors. Hence have normal cortisol levels via serum, but saliva levels for CORTISOL only would be low. Get salvia levels check ASAP. If they are low your serotonin will mostly be as well. Simple fact excess cortisol causes depression is because it causes tryptopphan to be diverted from serotonin production to other metabolites via Tryptophan pyrrolase. Little do most psychatist ever take this into consideration and just stick you on paxil and on your way..Correcting the adrenal fatigue (through psychotherapy, lifestyle changes ) and adding little 5htp or trytophan will correct this majority of cases

    That like greek to me....

    You dont know me...Please dont try to psychoanalyze me after reading a few online posts....Thankx for the responses.....
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    Quote Originally Posted by christopher
    That like greek to me....

    You dont know me...Please dont try to psychoanalyze me after reading a few online posts....Thankx for the responses.....
    What i am saying that unresolved stress whether it be emotional or physical, enviorment, ect is at the core of majority of peoples problems. If the problem is not resolved at that time people just think it goes away. Little do they know it is building up deep in their cells DNA and over time it will hit them later on in life when they least expect it.

    Lamens turns
    cortisol goes up, serotonin goes down, thyroid goes down (t4 to t3 conversion drops), insulin goes up blood sugar goes down, potassium gets excreted, retaining sodium

    cortisol goes up, dhea goes down, testosterone drops (prengnelone steal from other homrones to make cortisol), more insuln is needed to pump out body begins to become inuslin resistance (fatty liver starts to develope),Body begins to hold on to potassium and excrete sodium


    cortisol goes down, dhea down, testosteorne down, low serotoin,low pregnenoline, low thyroid, prediabetic (insulin procuction begins to reduce over time), body excreting sodium retaining potassium
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. John
    You don't find progesterone in the urine. Rather, pregnanediol is the biomarker for serum progesterone levels.

    Rhein includes this on their standard test.
    Curious is this lab covered by blue cross blue shield and if you had a choice go with the urine deflnitely over the serum any day? i am just looking for most accurate way of measuring levels which are consistant. I like the idea of the urine since its an over all average rather then space and time.

    Dr john your virutal appointments is that just for your already preexisting cleints or that can be from anyone with there dr.
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