testosterone cream V.S sustanon which is easier on your hair
- 01-04-2007, 08:14 PM
- 01-04-2007, 09:06 PM
Just make sure you take Finasteride,or Dutasteride,and you can pretty much keep dht normalized..regardless of what kind of test..I recomend the finasteride systematic,and using duta topical,mixed with minoxidill,and spirolactone.
- 01-04-2007, 09:17 PM
Originally Posted by TripDog
When I take Avodart as prescribed, that is one pill per day,
After two months of not taking Avodart my DHT=226 (30-85)
I am looking for a dose of Avodart that would give me DHT=60-70
Do you have an educated guess of what that dose may be?
Right now I am experimenting with one pill every other week
At the moment I have all the hair that I need, 66yo.
01-04-2007, 09:21 PM
I am a bit confused by your post. Are you recommending he use finasteride orally along with a topical of dutasteride and spirolactone?? I can tell you that if I did that I believe my DHT and even perhaps test would be non existent.Originally Posted by TripDog
As a side note while many seem to have a decent experience with finasteride I thought my sex drive might never normalize after I took it for about a year.
Directly to the quextion as to whether the cream or sustanon would be easier on hair I would speculate the sustanon. I believe the conversion to DHT is much higher in a topical.
01-05-2007, 12:14 PM
Dutasteride systematic is imo too strong,unless your on a test cycle.Like I am.I gave the example of what i take and it actully grows hair back on a test e cycle.I would go with the sustanon.Using duta topicly Does help regardless of what some random dude says.....tried and true...If i were you I would switch to finasteride orally...duta is way too strong,and has a half life of 5 weeks....fina is a few days.(unless your on a crazy test cycle) im only doing 250 a week
01-05-2007, 12:17 PM
if you stick with avodart I wouldn't take it everyday.At least every other....IMO....remember long half life
01-05-2007, 06:38 PM
LOL am I the "random dude"??Originally Posted by TripDog
If so (even if not) I am still trying to understand what exactly you were recommending in the post. Were you in fact recommending he use finasteride orally and at the same time use duta and spiro topically?? If that is the case and it works for you cool........I will reiterate however that for myself and plenty of others that would drive DHT and test to the level of a two year old girl.
Secondly I am far from an isolated case when I say that finasteride had far reaching and long lasting implications on my libido. There are entire groups devoted to the subject and also at least one lawsuit I believe. There are some highly respected HRT docs that advise against the use of finasteride.
Having said that I am sure there are plenty who dont have issues .
01-05-2007, 07:26 PM
WTF are you guys trying to do this this guy kill his sex life.
Finasteride will do this there is a whole web site of men that are a mess from using that crap.
Propecia Side Effects - Impotence, Low Libido, Erectile Dysfunction, Finasteride
I talk to these poor guys all the time dam sad storys.
01-05-2007, 08:16 PM
I beleve if you read my post you will see I am agreeing with you whole heartedly..................... ..Originally Posted by pmgamer18
01-06-2007, 10:06 AM
LOL, low libido, erectile dysfunction, you'll be saying gyno next. I've been on propecia since 2002 and now i've switched to the REALLY STRONG STUFF dutasteride, den den den!!!! Honestly man, these side effects are minimal (thats if you are prone to them) , hell i've probably had them but barley noticed them at all, infact i may up the dosage. If a man can get messed up using finasteride, he must of been very sickly to start with.Originally Posted by pmgamer18
01-06-2007, 10:12 AM
Topical treatments are a nice complementry in conjunction with finasteride or dutasteride, not instead of, that's if you are serious about losing your hair.Originally Posted by Dr. John
01-06-2007, 10:27 AM
Can you elaborate as to why you feel systemic surpression of DHT is necessary as opposed to control at the binding sites on the scalp?Originally Posted by dobebrief
I would think your contention would have to be that the topicals are ineffective at maintaining levels of effectiveness throughout a 24 hour day.
Also out of curiosity are you talking about using the combo of oral/topical during normal hormonal levels (whether self produced or HRT) or are you referring to times when test and DHT are supraphysiological?
01-06-2007, 10:28 AM
Dont kid yourself, a lot of the problems associated with finasteride dont appear until you quit the drug. There's somthing not quite right about this drug for sure, its common knowledge. I know first hand - It did its best to try and turn me into a female. Gyno is on the drug information as a possible side effect and it definately does happen, its all over the internet. If youre still not convinced, have a look at all of these happy campers:Originally Posted by dobebrief
propecia: Side effects, ratings, and patient comments
01-06-2007, 11:28 AM
Props I have NO problems with sex drive because of either chem..I think they work great.I'm 6% bodyfat 186 pounds,bang like a jackrabbit,train like a bear.....Where exactly is the problem here...and prone to mpb,and growing hair like crazy....I guess only real men can use this stuff,and not be affectedOriginally Posted by dobebrief
01-06-2007, 12:11 PM
First as I said in a previous post SOME people can use this stuff with no apparent problems. Thats GREAT and I am glad for those that can I truly am.Originally Posted by TripDog
I have never and I mean NEVER flamed anyone on here. This is my favorite board and has been a place I call home for a few years damn near. I gotta call this one like i see it though.
Your attitude SUCKS!! It is obvious from your tone AND level of knowledge that you dont even know what being a "real man" means. The board motto of Learn, Teach , Lead is something that most here follow and its what makes the board special. You are not doing any of those things when you dish out your bs attitude.
01-06-2007, 12:28 PM
Originally Posted by TripDog
If you insinuate that people on this board are "not real men", you will probably not get a very warm resoponse from anyone.
Correct me if im wrong, but I would have thought it takes a "real man" to deal with issues such as finasteride induced hypogonadism (theres a big phrase for you to research) and peyronies disease (ouch) at the tender age of 20 somthing, but you da man so you tell me.
01-06-2007, 12:43 PM
So it's a bad idea to take dutagen or propecia (that the doctor probably presribed in the first place) than jabbing yourself with test e and stacking it with other orals and recovering your own hormone levels with more drugs?Originally Posted by jcam222
01-06-2007, 01:06 PM
Im talking about keeping your barnet. What do people do if they want big muscles, they take steroids and are aware of the side effects. Same goes for your hair, what do you do if you don't want to be a baldie and it REALLY bothers you, you take the hair pills and are aware that you might get a few sides.Originally Posted by jcam222
If it don't bother you that much then by all means, use topicals, ive been there, load of crap FOR ME, now I take the best at what there is.
01-06-2007, 01:25 PM
Come on now read what I am saying. I have said several times now that it works for some and if it does GREAT. More power to you,.....I truly mean that!!!!Originally Posted by dobebrief
I am simply sharing MY experience and MY experience with finasteride was bad. My flame was not directed at you at all. My rant is directed at someone who feels the need to say that because I or someone else have a bad experience with finasteride we must not be "real men" as he puts it.
As far as test, e, other orals, myself, and how fina etc work in that environment I wont get into here. This is the wrong forum for that. This forum is for the discussion of legit HRT levels of use. And before you try to kick my ass on that statement too NO I am not saying I never veer outside the norms..........I am simply saying this isnt the forum to discuss it in.
We certainly have veered off the original posters question anyway. He simply asked what would be easier on the hair line,,,,,,,200mg test cream twice a day or 125mg sust weekly. As Doc John pointed out 2oomg cream twice a day is a cycle as opposed to HRT. The 125mg dose of sust while slightly high is in the realm of an HRT dose. Even if you backed the cream off to a normal HRT dose its likely the conversion to DHT will be higher with the topical. It is my understanding that when there is more conversion activity to both DHT and Estrogen with a topical vs. an injectable.
To the orginal poster as well.....keep im mind that maintaining healthy levels of DHT is not just a bad thing. DHT supports many things that are desirable as well.....leaness and libido to name a couple.
01-07-2007, 02:51 AM
Originally Posted by dr.squat21
EDITED BY DR. CRISLER: READ THE FORUM RULES.
Last edited by Dr. John; 01-07-2007 at 06:17 AM.
01-07-2007, 06:09 AM
I would personally rather lose some hair than lose my sex drive. Hey my hair is short anyway because im in the military
01-07-2007, 11:57 AM
01-07-2007, 12:06 PM
I hope your not a real doctor, the world would be in trouble, who have I insulted? finasteride and dutasteride are the way forward if you want to keep your mop, either tolerate the sides or go for the gentler topicals and accept the fact that they arn't very good.Originally Posted by Dr. John
01-07-2007, 12:19 PM
Originally Posted by dobebrief
You picked an appropriate name here as I think your stay with us truly is going to be brief.
01-07-2007, 03:06 PM
I would love to hear the name of topical that work.Originally Posted by Dr. John
Rogaine did not, for me at least, but then I do not need it now since I have to fight my v high DHT,
first with Proscar now with Avodart.
As for Avodart,
my suspicion is that the problem is with dose size.
The pill (gel-cap) is too potent, but it is hard to make smaller pieces of it.
Avodart stays in the system for months, so the dose must be at the just right level.
I can go jojo with my DHT, using it daily as prescribed, DHT=29, stopped Avodart for six weeks DHT=226(30-85).
Now I am trying, not sure yet, once a week or once every other week, would like to get my DHT=80.
01-07-2007, 03:58 PM
I am sure Dr. J will answer you but if you care to hear it heres my general thought.Originally Posted by JanSz
I dont beleive you necessarily want to take your serum DHT levels down. Specific to your hair the key is in preventing binding on the scalps AR receptors. A topical can achieve that while having far less of a chance to negatively impact healthy DHT levels and test levels for that matter.
Beyond hair there is also a good deal of research that suggests that high DHT is not as much a culprit in prostate issues as high estrogen.
01-07-2007, 09:25 PM
Yes he is. And even though I am new to this board, I believe a bit more open mindedness on your part would go a long way to respecting others opinions.Originally Posted by dobebrief
Besides, bald is beautiful! AND it saves on haircuts!
01-07-2007, 10:48 PM
I do not want to take my DHT down, when it is at 29 I am having ED problems. I just want to keep it at reasonable level, top of the range but not more than that. At the moment my hair do not fall off.Originally Posted by jcam222
01-07-2007, 11:06 PM
Originally Posted by dobebrief
Wow you are on a roll now i know that i havn't been here very long but from what i've learned here you just insulted a very well known doctor that alot of people respect. I highly suggest you go on and push and read some more posts before you put down someone who has studied and practiced for years what you think you know.
01-08-2007, 09:12 AM
Amen... I just prempted the inevitable!!!! A little proaction, instead of reaction!!!!! And women love it.... something smooth to rub on when... errrr... . I mean...... Yeah!!!!Originally Posted by SoMdHunter
The Historic PES Legend
01-08-2007, 11:05 PM
Hey listen guys,I'm really not trying to be a d1ck..Sorry if it came across that way..I'm just saying that for me personally I don't think finasteride,or duta are THAt bad.I love these boards,learn alot,and JCAM,sorry brother were all REAL men...thats why we are on these boards
01-08-2007, 11:09 PM
Originally Posted by JanSzYoyo Crazy - Home PageOriginally Posted by Dr. John
Sorry, english is my second language, I meant YOYO.
It goes up and down and up and down and so on...
DHT is doing its good job when it is at say 85, (maximum range).
When my DHT=226 it probably does very questionable job on my v large prostate.
as I am assesing my options about Avodart, possibly using Durastride
AG-Guys & Affiliates :: Accessories :: Durastride
may provide a way to reduce Avodart dose equal to one gell cap per week but using liitle duasteride daily.
01-08-2007, 11:50 PM
What BID mean?Originally Posted by Dr. John
As for DIM I thought that it is taken to reduce E2.
PhytoPharmica Indolplex with DIM
Indolplex® Complex 120 mg
but I think it have 25% of DIM
Should I take 4 or 5 pills daily?
I probably should make inventory of all the AI that I am taking and stop it.
Nettle (Urtica dioica)
I am already taking small amounts of DIM=14mg/day
By chance, have you ment TMG?
I do not know what is TMP (typo??).
I am already taking 100mg of TMG with may multitude of supplements.
I do not eat much sugar, blood sugar ok.
Nothing will shrink my prostate except possibly scalpel.
transition zone =42cc
but sincerely thank you for your attempt.
01-09-2007, 11:09 AM
Thank you doctor.Originally Posted by Dr. John
Now $50 question.
Wonder if I could get clarification on DIM.
My dose is:
"For you, I would use 150mg BID of DIM"
I understand that is 2x150=300mg of DIM daily
My source of DIM will be PhytoPharmica Indolplex with DIM
it content is described as:
Serving Size: 1 Tablet Amount/Serving %DV
Indolplex® Complex 120 mg *
modified food starch, 25% diindolylmethane (DIM), d-alpha tocopheryl succinate, silicon dioxide, and phosphatidylcholine
so each tablet contains 0.25x129=40mg of DIM
To get my 300mg/day dose
300/40=7.5 tablets daily
Is that correct?
Lots of DIM isnt it??
Have I missunderstood your directions?
I am not sure what to make of all the phosphatidylcholine that I will be taking with Indolplex tablets..
With in supplements that I am already taking, there is
Phosphatidylcholine (from soy) 150 mg
Alpha-Glyceryl Phosphoryl Choline (A-GPC) 600 mg
Phosphatidylserine 100 mg
[SharpPS Gold™ Conjugated Phosphatidylserine-DHA
(std. to 45% PS and 8% DHA) and phosphatidylserine]
Phosphatidylcholine-Grape Seed Extract 150 mg
[Contains 50 mg of Leucoselect® Phytosome™ grape
seed extract (95% polyphenols) bound to 100 mg of
phosphatidylcholine from soy]
01-09-2007, 07:01 PM
01-12-2007, 11:19 AM
DR John,Originally Posted by Dr. John
I've used nizoral tabs in the past to get rid of a pesky tinea versicolor. Was my DHT being screwed up at the same time?
01-12-2007, 12:44 PM
01-12-2007, 01:18 PM
I've only taken it for 5 days and the "rash" is all clear. I imagine that wasn't enough to affect it and anyway, without testing for it, who knows.Originally Posted by Dr. John
I appreciate your time,
02-13-2007, 05:20 PM
02-13-2007, 05:36 PM
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