High lab results
- 12-01-2006, 03:36 PM
High lab results
I finally found a Dr. willing to put me on TRT.
My levels were:
Total T = 297 (LabCorps range 241 Ė 827)
Free T = 11 (LabCorps range 7.2 Ė 24.0)
Sept 12th I started on Androderm patch 2.5 mg at night and 25 mg DHEA breakfast & lunch.
Went in for follow up labs Nov 20.
Total T = 1009
Free T = 25.8
I feel only marginally better than when I started.
Morning erections maybe 1 Ė 2 per week
Libido still in the pit
Still having problems managing my pot belly (lifting 3xweek, cardio 2x week) no change in waist line although I do feel Iíve had some upper body recomp.
Diet is average not clean but I watch what & how much I eat (just not fanatic about it).
Now Iím afraid that she will take me off since the levels are so high and Iíll be back where I started.
Any thoughts on this and what I should speak with her about when I see her next week?
Donít know E levels as she didnít think it was a valid test for men.
I did the test fasting (she was checking some other things) and with my patch from the prior night still on.
- 12-01-2006, 08:26 PM
- 12-01-2006, 09:00 PM
You're right, that does sound weird. I would probably push her for the E2 levels to be tested... but still
My first thought was prolactin, but the testosterone increase should have had an effect on boosting dopamine levels (dopamine signals prolactin production to "turn-off").
Are you ever feeling depressed? Perhaps a dopamine receptor agonist could help there such as cabergoline (also used to treat hyperprolactinemia).
Just my 2cents, and chance to bump it again for you .
12-04-2006, 10:22 AM
12-04-2006, 10:26 AM
The patch spikes 12 hours after use so your levels arnt always going to be that high, but you should be having some good levels throughout the day.
Take some zinc with food or ZMA, or DIM if you can and see if you start feeling better.
12-04-2006, 10:52 AM
I will ask her again about E levels.
I am taking ZMA at night but no zinc (other than in my multi-min), have never tried DIM.
I wonder if I should ask for a retest ant a time when I would not be peaking on the patch. I usually put the new one on at bedtime 910pm) and the blood work was at about 7:30am.
I was going by the recommendations on other threads and by Dr. John regarding the test should be done under normal medication usage.
12-04-2006, 02:03 PM
In this link I have can't post it here send me a Email firstname.lastname@example.org the patch will spike up to above 800 6 hrs. after apply it. And this is a 5mg patch your on half that dose I never let a Dr. lower my dose on one lab test they make so many errors. If you put on the patch in the moring do the blood work first you will be at a lot lower level.Originally Posted by glg
Was this all the testing your Dr. did when he found you low WTF is with that you need to have much more tests done to find out way you so low. Go template007 Dr. John's site and click on Pub.'s and Read TRT: A Recipe for Success in this are tests you needed and why. The only thing you can do now it get off the patch and do more testing. A lot of things can make your levels low if you find out what and fix it your levels will come back up.
12-04-2006, 04:29 PM
Will email you but regarding the other questions.
I've had so many tests in the last 9 months that the LabCorps people know me by my first name.
I've done T, Thyroid, Vit/Min, Adrenal/DHEA, all kinds of Cholesterol, CAT scans, treadmills (with & without thalium) on..and on...
I had some cardiac issues back in Dec and then a couple of months later just kind of physically crashed.
Did the anti-depressants ets.
finally after a lot of personal researching I started looking for some TRT as my PCP wouldn't go there (didn't have any experience in the TRT field). I found a D.O. who has put me thru' all kind of tests, given me a reading list, recommended a number of alternative therapies (she is holistic in practice) and finally after a couple of months of consultations put me on the 2.5mg patch.
12-04-2006, 04:35 PM
She sounds good talk to ya.Originally Posted by glg
12-05-2006, 12:23 AM
12-05-2006, 09:56 AM
Well I go in for my follow-up this afternoon. I plan on asking for another set of labs.
I will ask what she thinks about waiting until after the labs to put on my patch or even skipping one day before.
Thank goodness i have insurance to cover all these labs (except the saliva DHEA/Cortisol).
I'm beginning to feel like a pin cushion with all the blood draws.
None of my meds or supp's are injectables (so far).
12-05-2006, 10:14 AM
I am not following this thread, so may not be applicable, but off hand comment on you list since time may be of the essence, I would add or change to:Originally Posted by glg
(I do blood test at LabCorp) so I do
Instead of patch you may consider
100mg/gram T cream from womensinternational.com
apply 1gram daily on a flank rib area size of a hand
that may save you from E2 and DHT problems.
(I am working on transiting to a cream myself).
12-05-2006, 10:18 AM
How do they do the DHEA/Cortisol test?
12-05-2006, 10:26 AM
It is a blood test.Originally Posted by glg
For Cortisol AM/PM they draw blood twice, 7AM and 4PM.
I had it done yesterday at LabCorp.
In my area they are open 7AM to late about 6PM only on Mondays, so you can first make a trip to a blood drawing station and ask questions on what they want you to do.
12-06-2006, 10:58 AM
Well I had my apt yesterday afternoon.
Based on my labs she wants to switch me over to 1Androgel 1 pump ED since it seems that the patch is to much for me.
Based on my Cortisol labs she is starting me on a mineral-corticoid – Florinef 0.1 mg ED
Based on a nutritional analysis she is recommending:
Pantothenic acid 500 mg 2ED
CoQ10 100 mg ED
She wants me to go back on a prostate saw palmetto of 160 mg 1-2ED
And to bump my Vit-D intake up to 2000 iu ED
As usual she recommended a couple of books to read and the option of some additional therapies – she wants me to consider a 25 gm IV infusion of Vit-C possibly every month as a treatment for the cortisol/fatigue issues.
So I at least get to stay on a TRT program but at a lower dosage even though I don’t feel significant improvement overall.
Energy & libido have improved from a 2-3 to a 4-5 on a subjective scale of 1-10.
Will be going back in 2 months for full follow-up labs.
12-06-2006, 06:06 PM
Following this also,would think those high test levels would catapult the libido into hyperspace.
12-07-2006, 09:51 AM
yeah but I went thru a period of absolutely zero, non, nada desire/ability etc.
Even had viagra and it didn't do anything. That's why they first tried the anti-depressants. Although i I told them that wasn't the issue. i was a little depressed because I had no libido not the other way around. Even tho one of my degrees is in Psychology they wouldn't listen until I took the eval' tests and asked how they would like me to shift it. My PCP said she didn't think that would work as she was giving me 3 different tests that would show any attempt at variation. So I bombed one answered truthfully on the second and decided to shift it to manic on the third. She didn't quite know how to handle that even tho I told her I had spent a couple of years in testing methodology and administration.
I took the script for one month with no change (other than an increase in my RLS) at which point I told her I was moving on & looking into TRT.
So I hope that an adjustment doon in the TRT will actually make a better impact. maybe I went to high on the scale and threw other things out of whack. By bringing it back down and alllowing the rest of the hormones etc rebalance I hope to see more life in this banged up body of mine.
12-07-2006, 08:31 PM
WTF is right, you test must be wrong.Originally Posted by glg
Ask her for script for Estradiol (sensitive), do the test at LabCorp, that is the best laboratory.Originally Posted by glg
Or you can buy script from LEF.org
http://androgel.com/images/ProfessionalInfo.pdfOriginally Posted by glg
Prescribed Daily Dose Number of Pump Actuations
5 g= 4 Pump Actuations(once daily)
7.5 g= 6 Pump Actuations(once daily)
10 g= 8 Pump Actuations(once daily)
1 pump is waste of time.
Get 5grams or better yet 7.5grams Androgel daily.
better yet get T cream
see post by 1cc (11-20-2006, 12:12 PM )
Estradiol test kit?
Anybody knows how to refer to individual post?
12-10-2006, 02:48 PM
Wait a second,"even had Viagra and it didn't do anything" has got to be a clue.You know tho w/o stimulation Viagra will not "work".
My test of libido is to view porn.If my libido is down I'm not even interested in even looking,won't even think of it,doesn't interest me.I'm single tho,if your married wifey might get mad and not believe it's only a libido test.But then again if porn gets you horny and wife doesn't maybe wife is cause of low libido.
12-10-2006, 04:29 PM
El-Sakka AI, Morsy AM, ***ih BI, Nassar AH. Coronary artery risk factors in patients with erectile dysfunction. J Urol. 2004;172(1):251-4.
If you’re a man taking Viagra for impotence, you may already know you have heart disease. And you may know you have elevated homocysteine. If you’re taking Viagra for impotence and have never been diagnosed with artery disease, it might be prudent to get some heart tests done, including homocysteine levels. If the impotence is being caused by bad blood vessels, there may be problems in other areas of the body as well (such as the heart). Don’t wait until you’re laying on a gurney in the emergency room to find out you’ve got cardiovascular disease
12-11-2006, 10:50 AM
Had an angioplasty & stent in Dec '05. Was trying Viagra before that and yes in some ways that led to furthur testing which found the blockage.
But almost a year later and no "sognificant" improvemrnt in energy/libido etc is a more than a little disturbing. that's when I went to an alternative DR. for tests that my PCP & cardo wouldn't do or even consider.
Now i'm waiting for my insurance to approve the change in meds....@##%$$##
12-11-2006, 10:59 AM
What are your homocysteine levels ? for optimal health under 6-7 not below lowest range. This needs to be determined so if they are high a simple nutritoinal supplement could make all the difference in the world. that be increasing b-6, folic acid, b-12, and some TMG to help lower it. Do you have any alteration in blood sugar as well because hidden diabetes is known to cause impotency because of connection with not only heart disease, but also your nerves.Originally Posted by glg
one thing you may want to try is 100-200 mgs kraLa and see if it makes a difference. My hunch is telling me your homocystein levels are elevated, but testing is needed to confirm. if your short term memory is bad then it more likely homocysteine, but not to many drs check for it. Even my fathers heart dr never even check for it and i had it tested and it was 15 !! no wonder the man could not remember any thing you told him LOL old age my azz..i have an idea that impared blood flow is what caused his earing lost but that is only a theory
12-11-2006, 11:20 AM
No issues with Short term memeory that i know of or has been mentioned anyway.
I have had my Homocystien levels checked but it was several month ago and I need to dig out all my lab results before i could give an actual level but I think it was "within range".
12-11-2006, 11:28 AM
in range goes from 5-15.. Optimal is under 6-7 Read one post where it was in MD forum and person had 13 and MD repsonse "that is nothing to be concerned with they are still in the normal ranges" No wonder people are dropping like flys. What happen to old saying "an ounce of prevention is worth more then the cure" (or something like that) LOL Some thing else you might want to mention to dr is a test for fibrogen levels. I atteneded a semiar where a guy had excellent choleserol, hdl, ldl, tricglycerides, no diabetes, homocysteine levels of 7, but had 3 strokes. I was even baffled then it was revealed he had elevated fibrogen levels that was a hidden factor, so something else you might want to explore with dr.
12-11-2006, 12:43 PM
just had fibrogen done and it was at low end of scale (Dr wanted to monitor blood thickening from the higher test level)
12-11-2006, 12:51 PM
Have they looked into possible bood sugar insulin dysfunction. Best test for that would be Glucose tolerance test 3 or 5 hour, if they had not don it already. you are like me a walking lab rat LOL Serotonin/neurotransmitter imbalances may alter the little wanker too. DHT also drives the little fellow too. if you have exhausted all phyisical possibilities, then it may (hate to say it) look for the psychological impacts. My freind had a bad relationship and ever since he been limpy as well. Hes 29 years old. Through talking to a therapist over 3 months he was able to regain his composure again. Not knowing your psychological and lifestyle years previous it would be hard to determine this, but it may be something to worth considering.
12-12-2006, 10:23 AM
Yes we have explored the depression issue.
We think it's more of a matter of bringing several nutritionals and hormones back into balance.
And of course i'm 58 and physically banged up. I realize there is a limit as to how much better I will feel but I do not believe I'm even close to that level yet.
I regularly have my glucose, cholesterol etc checked and so far the glucose is ok with a leaning towards glucose resistant. I have a couple of diabetics in the family so I do watch that.
On top of the rest of the issues I have major sleep issues which interfers with every aspect of life. I am continually trying new supps and meds for that (can't fall asleep, can't stay asleep, mild to moderate apnea, RLS etc). I am also one of those people that have reverse or no effect to many meds and supps.
Things that energize others make me feel sluggish until it's bed time then I lay there and twithch all night. Just the opposite for relaxers of many kinds...I just get fired up almost like that last cup of coffee that puts you over the edge.
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