Help Needed - Next Step?

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    Help Needed - Next Step?


    I had my operation this morning to repair my varicocele and it went pretty well. I was a little scared but i got over it and got the operation done in the end.

    So far no change in testicle size or feeling in general at the minute but my body is still healing from the operation (got 3 wound sites from having problems locating the correct vein). I can only hope i will see some marked improvements in the coming weeks with regards to testosterone and sperm production.

    If my testosterone level's don't come back up to a normal level after this operation the next logical step for me will be injections i think. Getting my doctor/GP to go for this will be difficult though as he claims i don't have 'true' hypogonadism because my LH/FSH are in the normal range. He refuses to listen to any symptoms i tell him about. Just the usual low testosterone symptoms (ED/Libido, Muscle/Joint Pain, Mood Swings, etc).

    I think i have a very strange case where my testicle atrophied due a varicocele. I only ever had one good testicle before as the other had atrophied many year's ago due a varicocele also. My other testicle became large and fully functional but after the varicocele came 4 months ago, it caused all manner of problems for me. The strange thing was no change occured in my LH/FSH except a shift by two points in the LH (from 2.1 to 3.9). My testosterone level dropped from about 650/700 (maybe even 800 at points) down to 400 (could be lower - awaiting new results) and i got all the symptoms of low testosterone. When i felt really bad my blood result's looked like this:

    Total T : 15.2 NMOL/L (14-40)
    SHBG: 26.0 NMLOL/L (20 - 45)
    Free Androgen Index (FAI) : 58 (70 - 100)
    Calculated FreeTestosterone (CFT) 356.7 PMOL/L (300 - 600)
    FSH : 2.7 IU/L (0.7 - 6)
    LH: 3.9 IU/L (0.8 - 6)
    Estradiol (E2) : 73.0 PMOL/L (55 - 184)
    TSH: 1.9 IU/L (0.4 - 5.5)

    It was very strange, as my testosterone level was dropping it looked like i was "aging" fast. My skin changed and became less elastic, my penis shrunk up (like a balloon out of gas) and hung lifeless, my joints/muscles hurt and so fourth.

    I was put on TRT (Androgel) and did this for 3/4 weeks. During this time my own system didn't shutdown. I got a blood test done while on TRT (1 application a day - 50mg) and my LH/FSH dropped a little but nothing radical (LH - 2.7, FSH 2.1). I think the TRT was going against my own body and causing some estrogen problems while on treatment.

    I stopped everything for two week's and got another blood test done. Again my LH/FSH were in the normal range. I am still waiting on getting the full results back, i still don't know what my baseline testosterone level was without TRT. I should know and post soon.

    I stopped all TRT about two week's ago due to going in for this operation. I guess i am wondering if it's possible todo TRT and not shutdown your HPTA? It seem's my own body just dosen't want to shutdown. My theory is that the when your LH/FSH gets really low it mean's you are getting the correct dosage of testosterone, i guess mine started lowering because i was getting near my normal range. This makes sense because i was hitting 600/700 on TRT but before i was injuryed my level was about 800.

    What i can't understand is that even though my testosterone level halfed during the delince, why the change in LH was so minimal. It seem's odd that my body accepted such a low testosterone level without trying to stimulate the testicles further by increasing the LH.

    On TRT (androgel) i was getting good result's (600/700 range) but bad side's from the gel itself either caused by the gel itself or E2 problems.

    I think one of my problems at present is my own system is still working in the background while on TRT.

    I am going to stay off everything and get my blood tested again in 2/4 weeks to see if their is any improvement. I should be able to post my latest labs from 2 week's ago (when off TRT for two weeks) very soon, i am anxious myself to see what the level is.

    I am in the UK so getting injections is going to be difficult. I am thinking a routine of 100mg weekly + HGC to maintain fertility. Being a primary sufferer i want to keep as much testicular function as possible and try to get some "regrowth". I could also sit back and suffer from the low testosterone and see if my own system "kicks" back in on it's own.

    Not really sure what todo and really looking for some proper advice on this one.

    Thanks in advance guys!

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    Any update on this?
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    Ya got yourself a complicated situation, far above what little knowledge I have. Not much help, but....my thoughts are:

    1. I believe you will shut down at least to some degree when you are on TRT.

    2. After you have healed up, I would see an Endo for help. I'm of the opinion this is too complicated for a GP.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megazoid
    I had my operation this morning to repair my varicocele and it went pretty well. I was a little scared but i got over it and got the operation done in the end.

    So far no change in testicle size or feeling in general at the minute but my body is still healing from the operation (got 3 wound sites from having problems locating the correct vein). I can only hope i will see some marked improvements in the coming weeks with regards to testosterone and sperm production.

    If my testosterone level's don't come back up to a normal level after this operation the next logical step for me will be injections i think. Getting my doctor/GP to go for this will be difficult though as he claims i don't have 'true' hypogonadism because my LH/FSH are in the normal range. He refuses to listen to any symptoms i tell him about. Just the usual low testosterone symptoms (ED/Libido, Muscle/Joint Pain, Mood Swings, etc).

    I think i have a very strange case where my testicle atrophied due a varicocele. I only ever had one good testicle before as the other had atrophied many year's ago due a varicocele also. My other testicle became large and fully functional but after the varicocele came 4 months ago, it caused all manner of problems for me. The strange thing was no change occured in my LH/FSH except a shift by two points in the LH (from 2.1 to 3.9). My testosterone level dropped from about 650/700 (maybe even 800 at points) down to 400 (could be lower - awaiting new results) and i got all the symptoms of low testosterone. When i felt really bad my blood result's looked like this:

    Total T : 15.2 NMOL/L (14-40)
    SHBG: 26.0 NMLOL/L (20 - 45)
    Free Androgen Index (FAI) : 58 (70 - 100)
    Calculated FreeTestosterone (CFT) 356.7 PMOL/L (300 - 600)
    FSH : 2.7 IU/L (0.7 - 6)
    LH: 3.9 IU/L (0.8 - 6)
    Estradiol (E2) : 73.0 PMOL/L (55 - 184)
    TSH: 1.9 IU/L (0.4 - 5.5)

    It was very strange, as my testosterone level was dropping it looked like i was "aging" fast. My skin changed and became less elastic, my penis shrunk up (like a balloon out of gas) and hung lifeless, my joints/muscles hurt and so fourth.

    I was put on TRT (Androgel) and did this for 3/4 weeks. During this time my own system didn't shutdown. I got a blood test done while on TRT (1 application a day - 50mg) and my LH/FSH dropped a little but nothing radical (LH - 2.7, FSH 2.1). I think the TRT was going against my own body and causing some estrogen problems while on treatment.

    I stopped everything for two week's and got another blood test done. Again my LH/FSH were in the normal range. I am still waiting on getting the full results back, i still don't know what my baseline testosterone level was without TRT. I should know and post soon.

    I stopped all TRT about two week's ago due to going in for this operation. I guess i am wondering if it's possible todo TRT and not shutdown your HPTA? It seem's my own body just dosen't want to shutdown. My theory is that the when your LH/FSH gets really low it mean's you are getting the correct dosage of testosterone, i guess mine started lowering because i was getting near my normal range. This makes sense because i was hitting 600/700 on TRT but before i was injuryed my level was about 800.

    What i can't understand is that even though my testosterone level halfed during the delince, why the change in LH was so minimal. It seem's odd that my body accepted such a low testosterone level without trying to stimulate the testicles further by increasing the LH.

    On TRT (androgel) i was getting good result's (600/700 range) but bad side's from the gel itself either caused by the gel itself or E2 problems.

    I think one of my problems at present is my own system is still working in the background while on TRT.

    I am going to stay off everything and get my blood tested again in 2/4 weeks to see if their is any improvement. I should be able to post my latest labs from 2 week's ago (when off TRT for two weeks) very soon, i am anxious myself to see what the level is.

    I am in the UK so getting injections is going to be difficult. I am thinking a routine of 100mg weekly + HGC to maintain fertility. Being a primary sufferer i want to keep as much testicular function as possible and try to get some "regrowth". I could also sit back and suffer from the low testosterone and see if my own system "kicks" back in on it's own.

    Not really sure what todo and really looking for some proper advice on this one.

    Thanks in advance guys!
    I would really like to know if you have had any improvements after the operation because I am in a similar situation like you and I will probably need to get the same operation and I pray that it will fix things.
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    No progress so far Hyde, but the varicocele has cleared a good bit. I am going to run a protocol to try and regain size and function of the testicles. Atroped testicles don't work the same.

    I have my own personal theories on varicoceles and i am willing to share with others. My situation was a little different because i only really had "one" testicle before all of this so when the varicocele came along it made thing's horrofic. It caused testicular atrophy and a cascading amount of events related with low t.

    I have a feeling the atrophy is multi-factorial, it's not just related to the varicocele itself (which causes bad blood flow and stagnation). The irony is low t causes slower blood flow (i have noticed this since day one) so i am thinking that kicking T back into action with HCG should help things. I will of course let everyone know about my progress.

    My intention is to run HCG 100iu for 6 weeks (daily). No Nolvadex or Clomid but i will use ZMA + DIM to keep E2 low.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megazoid
    No progress so far Hyde, but the varicocele has cleared a good bit. I am going to run a protocol to try and regain size and function of the testicles. Atroped testicles don't work the same.

    I have my own personal theories on varicoceles and i am willing to share with others. My situation was a little different because i only really had "one" testicle before all of this so when the varicocele came along it made thing's horrofic. It caused testicular atrophy and a cascading amount of events related with low t.

    I have a feeling the atrophy is multi-factorial, it's not just related to the varicocele itself (which causes bad blood flow and stagnation). The irony is low t causes slower blood flow (i have noticed this since day one) so i am thinking that kicking T back into action with HCG should help things. I will of course let everyone know about my progress.

    My intention is to run HCG 100iu for 6 weeks (daily). No Nolvadex or Clomid but i will use ZMA + DIM to keep E2 low.
    MESO-Rx - View Single Post - Great response to certain DIM brand
    Because of above post, I suggest change, 6 weeks to 6 months.
    also HCG 100IU to 400IU

    as additional benefit you will use up your vials with HCG and will not need to throw out half full vials.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. John
    I'm but a lowly GP. Not even Board Certified in anything.
    No offense was meant Dr. My sincere apologies. You are the ONLY Dr. I have ever heard of that offers suggestions on any board. I think I read every post you make, and I want to personally thank you for doing what you do.

    Again, my apologies.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megazoid
    No progress so far Hyde, but the varicocele has cleared a good bit. I am going to run a protocol to try and regain size and function of the testicles. Atroped testicles don't work the same.

    I have my own personal theories on varicoceles and i am willing to share with others. My situation was a little different because i only really had "one" testicle before all of this so when the varicocele came along it made thing's horrofic. It caused testicular atrophy and a cascading amount of events related with low t.

    I have a feeling the atrophy is multi-factorial, it's not just related to the varicocele itself (which causes bad blood flow and stagnation). The irony is low t causes slower blood flow (i have noticed this since day one) so i am thinking that kicking T back into action with HCG should help things. I will of course let everyone know about my progress.

    My intention is to run HCG 100iu for 6 weeks (daily). No Nolvadex or Clomid but i will use ZMA + DIM to keep E2 low.
    Do you think the Doc can give me some Testosterone while I wait to get the operation? I feel so freaking miserable. I am so close to just ordering some testosterone or DHT myself.
    So I can have a sex life like I used to.
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    One more quick qestion. Are there any Herbal remedies that I can take to get rid of this Varicocele? I am taking Horse chestnut extract but that isnt doing jack.
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    Not really, i do recommend taking the following though:

    - ZMA / Zinc
    - Vitiman C
    - Vitiman E
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