Please help me with my blood test results

[lowvolume]

My background: I'm an 18 year old male and have been lifting for the past 1.5-2 years. Since about a year I've been noticing decreased libido, virtually no attraction to the other sex and a feeling of indifference (towards people/friends in general. I realise that this impression is subjective and may have different explanations but after roaming the boards and hearing about the symptoms of low T, I decided to have a blood test done (2 months ago). I don't have it right here but the numbers were something like:
Testosterone: 270 or 280 ng/dl (low end of normal range);
Free T was also tested. I just remember it being barely above the low end (Edit: 9.3 ng/l; normal range: 8.8-27).
All else was Ok except for creatine kinase, which is imho explained by breakdown of muscle tissue. That doc said everything's fine, but I didn't agree and argued with my mother (who's a pediatrician) until she sent me to an andrologist at the university hospital. It seemed to me as if the prof didn't listen to me at all, he would just go through his list, pointing out that my protein shake in the morning and creatine use could be to blame due to some contaminations and that no one could ever make him drink that.
Anyway, today I got a letter with the results:
To make it brief I quote his comment at the end (loosely translated from German):
"The symptoms described by you... aren't caused by a lack of the peripheral androgen, as the level of the peripheral androgen is in the very high normal range (!!!).
Note:
Contrary to the first blood test, no free testosterone was measured.
Total T (this time 300 ng/dl) and SHBG (9.20 nml/l, below normal range) were calculated into the "free androgen index".
And to top it, I quote: "The elevated level of creatine kinase and a marginally low level of HDL-Cholesterol (37 mg/dl) are conspicuous. This indicates a possible exogenic use of androgenic drugs(!!!). This may also explain the marginal level of Estradiol (98.3 pg/ml) as well as the elevated GPT."
Note: , I've never touched AS!
"...Therapeutically, it is recommended to cease the supplementation of protein and the intake of creatinine, as well as to reduce physical strain. At the moment there is a cardiovascular risk for a coronary heart disease, advice regarding further action is necessary". I'm speechless. Need advice.
ps: I wasn't sure where to put this thread, but the anti-aging/testosterone related issues category seems to fit best.
Thanks for your help.

[ECTOmorph]

lol find a new doctor

ur one year younger than me and ur T levels are even lower than mine, so i can imagine how "dead" you feel

[lowvolume]

lol find a new doctor

ur one year younger than me and ur T levels are even lower than mine, so i can imagine how "dead" you feel

yeah, I noticed your thread right after posting mine. I'm glad I'm not the only one at my age who has to go through this.
But back to topic: That doctor was really stubborn as a mule. I'm not attacking his test results (which seem suspicious though), but he was that kind of unfriendly person you don't want to meet. What really perplexes me is his opinion on supplements! I got to admit that I dont think much of him but explain that to my mother. After all he's a prof.
I feel as if I'm stuck in a dead end. And the results of that second
test are freaking me out! Maybe someone could interpret them, so that I'll be prepared for my next appointment.

[David Dunn]

I quote: "The elevated level of creatine kinase and a marginally low level of HDL-Cholesterol (37 mg/dl) are conspicuous. This indicates a possible exogenic use of androgenic drugs(!!!). This may also explain the marginal level of Estradiol (98.3 pg/ml) as well as the elevated GPT."

I'm no Dr but I believe it could be the inverse. Low levels of HDL (good cholesterol) could be contributing to your low T levels. The low T levels could be the trigger for elevated E2. The body wants to produce more test and its producing elevated E2 to trigger the body to produce T to balance the T/E2 ratio.

BTW, what is your body composition and activity level? Lean, obese, sedentary, active, etc?

Consider looking into your diet and its healthy fat content. It may need to have increased amounts of EFAs (healthy fats) like EVOO, fish oils, Flax Seed oils, and other healthy fats. This in turn may improve your HDL and indirectly improve your T and as a result your E2.

JMHO

[lowvolume]

BTW, what is your body composition and activity level? Lean, obese, sedentary, active, etc?

Consider looking into your diet and its healthy fat content. It may need to have increased amounts of EFAs (healthy fats) like EVOO, fish oils, Flax Seed oils, and other healthy fats. This in turn may improve your HDL and indirectly improve your T and as a result your E2.

JMHO

I'm very lean at 1.73m and 150 pounds. I'd say that I'm rather active during the week since I'm still occupied with school; go to school by bike.
I introduced flax oil to my diet some months ago and also brought up the role of "good fats" when talking to the doctor but he told me that I shouldn't bother about it (Still taking flax oil).

I'm no Dr but I believe it could be the inverse. Low levels of HDL (good cholesterol) could be contributing to your low T levels. The low T levels could be the trigger for elevated E2. The body wants to produce more test and its producing elevated E2 to trigger the body to produce T to balance the T/E2 ratio.
JMHO

Hmm I understand your reasoning but didn't he come to the conclusion that my level of free T was exceptionally high (Which completely contradicts the results of the first test)?

[David Dunn]

Hmm I understand your reasoning but didn't he come to the conclusion that my level of free T was exceptionally high (Which completely contradicts the results of the first test)?

"The symptoms described by you... aren't caused by a lack of the peripheral androgen, as the level of the peripheral androgen is in the very high normal range (!!!).
Note:
Contrary to the first blood test, no free testosterone was measured."

What evidence does he have to draw this conclusion.

BTW very lean at 150lb. How tall are you?

[hardasnails1973]

What about total cholesterol, triglycerides, ect. If you have high cholesterol, triglycerides then you might want to look towards inuslin imbalances as well as adrenal/thyroid as well. With out knowing your Estrodial you can not get total horomone picture. Adrenal fatigue is very common and should be investigated with salvia testing. Your profile is very similar to mine at the begnining and then all hell broke loose because drs tend to skip a few test here and there. Dhea -s level would be a nice test to add too. Get to an open minded dr that is willing to investigate thoroughly. My testosteone was down to 20 at one time and morons never even tested for estrogen problems..

[kincaiddave]

BTW very lean at 150lb. How tall are you?

At 1.73M, he is just over 5' 8".

[David Dunn]

5'8"+ and 150lbs. Consider putting on some weight and doing some resistence training? Hormones, diet, training and mood do go hand in hand. One or more promotes the other to a good degree.

Anyway, I'm not a Dr, but 5'8" and 150lbs seems unhealthy to me. I mean no disrespect. Eat, train be happy

[lowvolume]

"The symptoms described by you... aren't caused by a lack of the peripheral androgen, as the level of the peripheral androgen is in the very high normal range (!!!).
Note:
Contrary to the first blood test, no free testosterone was measured."

What evidence does he have to draw this conclusion.

BTW very lean at 150lb. How tall are you?

Total T (this time 300 ng/dl) and SHBG (9.20 nml/l, below normal range) were calculated into the "free androgen index"
--> The FAI seems to be his evidence. Btw, isn' the FAI inferior to a "direct" measurement of free testosterone?

5'8"+ and 150lbs. Consider putting on some weight and doing some resistence training? Hormones, diet, training and mood do go hand in hand. One or more promotes the other to a good degree.

Anyway, I'm not a Dr, but 5'8" and 150lbs seems unhealthy to me. I mean no disrespect. Eat, train be happy

Why is it unhealthy? I always thought my body height/weight ratio was perfectly normal. I've already been lifting for 1.5 years btw.
Edit: Just to clarify it, 68-69 kgs ~ 150 pounds, or am I wrong?

[David Dunn]

Like I said, I mean no disrespect at all. But 150lbs seems quite light for a 5'8" male. Just my opinion, FWIW, and not to be taken as deragatory by any means.

My point was that to whatever degree of leaness or low(er) body weight you are at can significantly effect hormone levels. My thought in making the suggestion that you might be a bit light is that if you increae your bodyweight you may find some relief to some symptoms and or test results. I could be wrong and am not suggesting or advising either way. JMHO.

[David Dunn]

Just a quick google...I'm at work

Weight loss and wrestling training: effects on growth-related hormones -- Roemmich and Sinning 82 (6): 1760 -- Journal of Applied Physiology

[Scottyo]

I would look into overtraining and adrenal fatigue. Still, your doc needs to go if he isnt even going to help you with advice etc. How often do you excercise, how intense and how stressed/stimmed up are you?

also, look into your thyroid as well. Of course, Fsh and LH would help to know why your test is so low.

Im 23, so not much older and am in similar circumstances. Im on androgel now but not sure if its the right bet. I just picked up some isocort for adrenal fatigue so we'll see how that goes.

[ItsHectic]

Im confused, his total T is only 300, and everyone is saying it could thyroid or adrenals?

[David Dunn]

Everyone? No.

[ItsHectic]

Well I didnt mean it literally, but the gist of the conversation is to look at other reasons such as overtraing etc, but 300 is really low.

I am at 550ng/dl wich is the levels of a 50-60 year old. He is at 300 wich is the levels of someone if they were 100+ years of age, its off the chart. ref: Center For Clinical Age Management - Natural Hormone Replacement, Boca Raton Florida.

[David Dunn]

I know you didn't. I agree that he is low for his age.

These forums are very limited in their ability to help people when there are underlying matters that only a doctor and a lab can diagnose.

[JanSz]

I would look into overtraining and adrenal fatigue. Still, your doc needs to go if he isnt even going to help you with advice etc. How often do you excercise, how intense and how stressed/stimmed up are you?

also, look into your thyroid as well. Of course, Fsh and LH would help to know why your test is so low.

Im 23, so not much older and am in similar circumstances. Im on androgel now but not sure if its the right bet. I just picked up some isocort for adrenal fatigue so we'll see how that goes.

One way to figure out overtaining is to check pulse, day after workout, in the morning up on awakening.

I have only heard about it. Welcome more details.

[Scottyo]

Im confused, his total T is only 300, and everyone is saying it could thyroid or adrenals?

Yes, because the CNS is all interelated, and adrenal fatigue or thyroid problems can CAUSE low test.

All we have is a test that says his testosterone is low. If we had his fsh and lh, it could point to pituitary concerns or somewhere else. But if you havent noticed, the significant number of 18-21 year old males who are showing up again and again with low test values is in itself telling. It is NOT normal for someone this age to have such low values, and if he has not used any androgens...something must be causing it. Instead of jumping the gun and saying its all low test, get this kid on TRT, how about looking at what is CAUSING the low test? Since he hasn't had a mri on the pituitary (another important thing to be done....but which often checks out A-ok), I asked about information he could provide without any more tests, any more studies etc.

[David Dunn]

Yes, but at the end of the day, he (his parents in this case) and his physician need to seek do the actual diagnosis and establish any and all treatment protocol.

This virtual-cyber-self-diagnosis-and-treatment-protocol we engage in on these forums is....well, just that.

Get a Dr that will treat you completely and thoroughly.