Estradiol test kit?

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  1. Estradiol test kit?


    Wishfull thinking.

    When on TRT, after a while one is relatively stable.
    6 months to a year blood tests are sufficient.

    But, one (me) still have to deal with Ed variation
    that are usually due to E2 levels and to be kept in check
    have to be constantly (frequently) adjusted.

    I wish that there was some kind of home E2 test,
    similar to EPT (early pregnancy test) or
    blood sugar level test as for diabetics.

    Is there a such a thing?


  2. Hormone Test Kit - Saliva

    Immunometrics - Estradiol EIA Test Kit

    2nd one I think is abit much, looks expensive and professional, 1st one is just a saliva test so dont know how accurate it would be.
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by Dr. John
    Why do you feel you need constant adjustment of estrogen?
    It is hard to figure out proper dose of AI.
    Any sugestions?

  4. Quote Originally Posted by JanSz
    It is hard to figure out proper dose of AI.
    Any sugestions?
    Don't use an AI. Adjust your TRT so that an AI is not necessary. I believe an AI should be avoided if at all possible. There are TRT options that avoid estrogen problems.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by 1cc
    Don't use an AI. Adjust your TRT so that an AI is not necessary. I believe an AI should be avoided if at all possible. There are TRT options that avoid estrogen problems.
    I am of the same mind.
    I am using 2 - 5grams Androgel daily. Only recently I started applying it twice daily to have more even distribution.
    I used to use Arimidex, half pill every other day plus other AI in supplements, that I did not realized that they contained AI (as DIM and I3C).
    I think I am getting more stable E2 wise but it does not always translate into stable erections, then doubts and tinkering starts.
    Next on my plans is checking if adding some Cortisol and Armour Thyroid would provide some benefit.
    I have a Osteopath doc who promised to give me a script, if I will ask for it, but he currently advises me to not to touch this.
    I guess his experience is with people who are really really run down and I "just" want to do little better and have more over all energy.
    For example, I just had succesful "session" with my wife, it is 3PM now, an we are going to skip planned evening of dancig because I am rather pooped.
    •   
       


  6. Quote Originally Posted by 1cc
    Don't use an AI. Adjust your TRT so that an AI is not necessary.
    I believe an AI should be avoided if at all possible.
    There are TRT options that avoid estrogen problems.
    I welcome if you could describe some of this options.
    I would list:
    1. the more steady supply of T, less spikes of T, less of add on E2

    2.Higher than certain max level of T, excess of T converts to E2

  7. If I was in your shoes I would get all my labs done again, and go hard on E2 labs, get it tested every day or every 2nd day or rock upto the pathologist when you suspect your E2 is out of balance.


    I read here that E2 rises if there is a zinc deficiency, or if the liver is under stress, so you could try zinc supplimentation and milk thistle.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by JanSz
    I welcome if you could describe some of this options.
    I would list:
    1. the more steady supply of T, less spikes of T, less of add on E2

    2.Higher than certain max level of T, excess of T converts to E2
    Androgel has a 1% concentration of T which amounts to a lot of gel to be applied over a large area of skin. If you use a high concentration 10% T cream, it would result in a small amount of cream that would be applied over a small area of thin hairless skin such as the inner bicep area of 1 bicep (alternating biceps every day), which will lead to less estrogen and DHT conversion. If you wish to prevent testicular atrophy and maintain fertility, then you can use HCG in combination with the T cream. HCG has other benefits besides preventing testicular atrophy (read Dr. John's Recipe for Success document). I use 25mg T cream and 100iu HCG every day.

    You can also try SubQ T Cyp shots E3D, which should also result in lower estrogen conversion.

    If any of the above are dosed correctly, you should not have an Estrogen problem.

    If for some strange reason you continue to experience estrogen problems, then you can consider pellets as a last resort. Pellets are the least likely to cause estrogen problems.

  9. Quote Originally Posted by 1cc
    Androgel has a 1% concentration of T which amounts to a lot of gel to be applied over a large area of skin. If you use a high concentration 10% T cream, it would result in a small amount of cream that would be applied over a small area of thin hairless skin such as the inner bicep area of 1 bicep (alternating biceps every day), which will lead to less estrogen and DHT conversion. If you wish to prevent testicular atrophy and maintain fertility, then you can use HCG in combination with the T cream. HCG has other benefits besides preventing testicular atrophy (read Dr. John's Recipe for Success document). I use 25mg T cream and 100iu HCG every day.

    You can also try SubQ T Cyp shots E3D, which should also result in lower estrogen conversion.

    If any of the above are dosed correctly, you should not have an Estrogen problem.

    If for some strange reason you continue to experience estrogen problems, then you can consider pellets as a last resort. Pellets are the least likely to cause estrogen problems.
    1.-I have my Androgel paid by prescription plan with my small copay. What would be a cost of, say, 90 day (or 6 months) supply of 10% T cream (equal to two packs of Androgel)?
    2.-Is it likely to get allergic reaction to the cream, where large amount of T is going thru skin thru small area?
    3.-With Androgel I am using pre-measured packets, how easy it is to measure proper amount of highly concentrated cream?
    4.-How/where is the cream purchased, after doctor hands me a script?
    5.-What is the wording on the script so the pharmacist know exactly what I want?
    6.-What are the examples of screw ups to watch for, problems w script, problems w pharmacist, problems w application, etc?
    .
    Thank you for your help.
    .

  10. Quote Originally Posted by JanSz
    1.-I have my Androgel paid by prescription plan with my small copay. What would be a cost of, say, 90 day (or 6 months) supply of 10% T cream (equal to two packs of Androgel)?
    2.-Is it likely to get allergic reaction to the cream, where large amount of T is going thru skin thru small area?
    3.-With Androgel I am using pre-measured packets, how easy it is to measure proper amount of highly concentrated cream?
    4.-How/where is the cream purchased, after doctor hands me a script?
    5.-What is the wording on the script so the pharmacist know exactly what I want?
    6.-What are the examples of screw ups to watch for, problems w script, problems w pharmacist, problems w application, etc?
    .
    Thank you for your help.
    .
    1. Why are you using 10g AG? What were your results on 5g AG? Cost of T cream from Women's International Pharmacy - Natural hormone replacement therapies - compounding specialists for women/men is $40 incl. shipping for 60grams of 100mg/gram T Cream. If you use 1/2 gram = 50mg T Cream, it will last you 4 months, so works out to $10 per month. (It currently costs me $5 per month because I use 25mg T)

    2. No. Never heard of this, but you can speak to pharmacist at womens international.

    3. They provide a measuring spoon that measures 1gram. To measure less, you can use cooking measuring spoons. 1/4 teaspoon = 1 gram, 1/8 tsp = 1/2gram. To measure less, buy small cooking spoons set called dash, pinch smidge. Dash = 1/8tsp, pinch = 1/16tsp, smidge = 1/32tsp. So, you can measure out 100, 50, 25, 12.5mg's T.

    4. Script must be faxed by your doctor to womens international, or you can mail them the original script.

    5. 100mg/gram Testosterone Cream

    6. The T Cream must be applied to thin hairless skin such as inner bicep area of 1 bicep, alternating biceps every day, which is what I do. Other sites, which I have not used, are inner forearm and inner thighs. To ensure that it absorbs easily and quickly, apply a little cream at a time and rub in, and once that is absorbed, apply a little more. Wear a T shirt to avoid transference.

  11. Quote Originally Posted by JanSz
    1.-I have my Androgel paid by prescription plan with my small copay. What would be a cost of, say, 90 day (or 6 months) supply of 10% T cream (equal to two packs of Androgel)?
    2.-Is it likely to get allergic reaction to the cream, where large amount of T is going thru skin thru small area?
    3.-With Androgel I am using pre-measured packets, how easy it is to measure proper amount of highly concentrated cream?
    4.-How/where is the cream purchased, after doctor hands me a script?
    5.-What is the wording on the script so the pharmacist know exactly what I want?
    6.-What are the examples of screw ups to watch for, problems w script, problems w pharmacist, problems w application, etc?
    .
    Thank you for your help.
    .
    -----------------
    Quote Originally Posted by 1cc
    1. Why are you using 10g AG? What were your results on 5g AG? Cost of T cream from Women's International Pharmacy - Natural hormone replacement therapies - compounding specialists for women/men is $40 incl. shipping for 60grams of 100mg/gram T Cream. If you use 1/2 gram = 50mg T Cream, it will last you 4 months, so works out to $10 per month. (It currently costs me $5 per month because I use 25mg T)

    2. No. Never heard of this, but you can speak to pharmacist at womens international.

    3. They provide a measuring spoon that measures 1gram. To measure less, you can use cooking measuring spoons. 1/4 teaspoon = 1 gram, 1/8 tsp = 1/2gram. To measure less, buy small cooking spoons set called dash, pinch smidge. Dash = 1/8tsp, pinch = 1/16tsp, smidge = 1/32tsp. So, you can measure out 100, 50, 25, 12.5mg's T.

    4. Script must be faxed by your doctor to womens international, or you can mail them the original script.

    5. 100mg/gram Testosterone Cream

    6. The T Cream must be applied to thin hairless skin such as inner bicep area of 1 bicep, alternating biceps every day, which is what I do. Other sites, which I have not used, are inner forearm and inner thighs. To ensure that it absorbs easily and quickly, apply a little cream at a time and rub in, and once that is absorbed, apply a little more. Wear a T shirt to avoid transference.
    ---------------
    Thank you.
    ---------------
    Please run this by me again, just to make it sure and
    to minimize trial and error.
    Two packets of 1% - 5 grams od Androgel
    give the same Testosterone blood level as:
    XXXX of 100mg/gram Testosterone Cream
    so to get 180 days supply I need to order YYYY grams of cream.
    ---------------
    On 10grams of Androgel I test 932 (LEF 500-827)
    I started washing my hands after I am done with gell application, to make my T slightly lower.
    I aim for the top of recomended range.
    I do not use HCG at the present, possibly latter,
    so my testis are not producing, after being 3 years on Androgel.

  12. Quote Originally Posted by JanSz
    Two packets of 1% - 5 grams od Androgel
    give the same Testosterone blood level as:
    XXXX of 100mg/gram Testosterone Cream
    so to get 180 days supply I need to order YYYY grams of cream.
    No. One gram of 100mg/gram T Cream contains 100mg testosterone. 10grams AG contains 100mg testosterone. You will only know what blood level of T you will reach once you try it and do labs. Start with a conservative dosage of 50mg T cream (usually it is better to start with 25mg to see what your DHT conversion is like). Even this may raise your levels too high.

    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz
    On 10grams of Androgel I test 932 (LEF 500-827)
    Why did you doctor prescribe 10g AG?

    What time of day did you do these labs? Did you apply AG before doing labs? If so, how long after applying AG did you do the labs?

    Did you do any other labs like E2, DHT, Free T?

  13. Quote Originally Posted by 1cc
    No. One gram of 100mg/gram T Cream contains 100mg testosterone. 10grams AG contains 100mg testosterone. You will only know what blood level of T you will reach once you try it and do labs. Start with a conservative dosage of 50mg T cream (usually it is better to start with 25mg to see what your DHT conversion is like). Even this may raise your levels too high.



    Why did you doctor prescribe 10g AG?

    What time of day did you do these labs? Did you apply AG before doing labs? If so, how long after applying AG did you do the labs?

    Did you do any other labs like E2, DHT, Free T?
    ========================
    Thank you.
    ========================
    My results,
    april2005 T=664, LEF(500-827), FreeT=9.5, LEF(15-26.5), E2=38, LEF(10-30), One year on 5gram Androgel, I asked for 2 packs going forward
    8/26/2005 T=882, FreeT=27, E2=38, DHT=20, LEF(30-50), 2-5gram Androgel, Avodart
    5/5/2006 T=1039, FreeT=50, E2=26, DHT=29, 2-5gram Androgel, Avodart
    10/31/2006 T=932, FreeT=36.5, E2=27, DHT=226, 2-5gram Androgel, stopped Avodart for 6weeks to do the test, now continue it again

    I apply gel so as the blood is drawn approx 4 -5 hours latter, the arm where the blood is drawn did not see a gel.
    I use on/of, not always,
    Arimidex
    Chrysin w/piperine, DIM, I3C
    ============================== ===
    On Androgel leaflet it says that avg steady state of Testosterone is
    on 5grams --> 555 (+-225)
    on 10grams --> 713 (+-209)
    I think that I fit in with my results.
    And I would fit even better had I washed my hands of gel.
    ============================== ======
    Wonder if there is similar data for the T cream?
    I would preffer to have a good shot at the right dose the first time as I do blood test twice yearly, one thorough and the next as short test.
    Short test October 2006
    Total Estrogens------------------------------ ---260 pg/mL (40-115) LEs Optimal Range: 4077 pg/mL
    estrone, serum------------------------------- ----78 pg/mL (12-72)
    Estradiol, sensitive--------------------------- ----27 pg/mL (3-70) LEs Optimal Range: 1030 pg/mL
    Progesterone---------------------------------- ----1.4 ng/dL (0.3-1.2)
    Pregnenolone---------------------------------- ----23 ng/dL LEs Optimal Range: 100170 ng/dL
    Total Testosterone-------------------------- ---932 ng/dL (241-827) LEs Optimal Range 500827 ng/dL
    Free Testosterone--------------------------- --36.5 pg/mL (6.6-18.1) LEs Optimal Range: 1826.5 pg/mL
    DHT (dihydrotestosterone)--------------- ---226 ng/dL LEs Optimal Range: 3050 mg/dL
    prolactin, serum----------------------------- ----4.2 ng/dL (2.1-17.7) LEs Optimal Range: 2.15 ng/mL
    SHGB, serum-------------------------------------
    (TSH)-------------------------- --1.89 uIU/mL (0.350-5.5) LEs Optimal Range: 0.35 to 2.1 mIU/mL TSH below 1.5(Gary Field)
    Free triiodothyroxine (T3)----------------- --2.9 pg/mL (2.3-4.2) (3.67-4.2)per Crisgj2 =4.3-(4.2-2.3)/3=3.67
    Total T3------------------------------------------ ---104 ng/dL (85-205)
    Free T4(direct)-------------------------------- --1.37 ng/dL (0.61-1.76) Top of the FT4 and upper third for FT3 is what I look for
    DHEA Sulfate------------------------------------- ---369 ng/dL LEs Optimal Range: 400500 g/dL
    Cortisol, 4 Specimens---------------------------
    Hematocrit---------------------------------------- --45.6 % (36-50)

  14. JanSz,

    (Please only place the valid lab range next to results and not LEF optimal values)

    Your first results on April 2005 were fine. Your Total T was in the upper quarter of the normal range. You can't do better than that. Adding in any more AG will cause estrogen problems, as you are currently experiencing. "You asked for 2 packs going forward" - your doctor should have said no. Unfortunately, you did not do DHT at this point. E2 was not optimal (but also not high at all), Free T should be better. Taking Avodart or anything similar to control DHT is a bad idea. DHT is required for libido and sexual function and many men have experienced permanent side effects from using these type of drugs even after discontinuing them. Using a high concentration T cream may give you better E2 and Free T numbers at the same 50mg dosage.

    How were you feeling on your regimen at the time on April 2005? Was there any reason you felt you needed an increase in your dose?

    You may want to consider working with an experienced doctor in order to avoid similar problems in future. Your good health should be your main concern when doing HRT, and it's important that it is done properly.

  15. Ok here is the other side of the coin on this. For me and a lot of other guys I have come accross. Lowing T does to keep E2 in check does work but I for one start having bad joint and muscle pain along with bad fatigue. We just got done trying this and I am doing less of a dose but we had to up my dose.

    I was doing 64mgs of Depo T shots every 3 days and 400IU's of HCG the 2 days each in between. On this my levels were:
    Total T = 1236 range 262 to 1593 ng/ml
    Free T = 39.1 range 8.8 to 27 pg/ml
    E2 was 25 range 13 to 54 pg/ml taking 1mg of Arimidex a day.

    We lowed my Depo T shot to 40mgs every 3 days and HCG stayed the same.

    In 6 weeks my test's were as follows.
    Total T = 807 same range.
    Free T = 22.5 same range.
    E2 was 20 doing .25mgs of Arimidex every 3 days.
    We stayed at this dose for 18 weeks and little by little my joints and muscles started hurting bad my fatigue got worse. Also I could not get it up any more even with my E2 in check had bad loss of libido.

    So we upped the dose to 50mgs every 3 days HCG the same.

    Now the pain is gone fatigue is better and libido is back and I can get it up.

    Last test was.

    Total T = 935
    Free T = 26.9
    E2 = 19 doing .5mgs of Arimidex every otherday.

    I don't feel I will ever be able to lower my Dose to get E2 down and not take Arimidex. Then I am over weight and 63.

    I have come accross a lot of men that had joint and muscle pain using Quest labs there Total T was about 600 they had no libido with bad ED they could not get it up and keep it up taking a pill. Just upping there dose so the labs are in the 800's there pain was gone and sex was much better.

    I feel having to take Arimidex is a small price to pay to feel better.
    Phil

  16. Quote Originally Posted by 1cc
    JanSz,

    (Please only place the valid lab range next to results and not LEF optimal values)

    Your first results on April 2005 were fine. Your Total T was in the upper quarter of the normal range. You can't do better than that. Adding in any more AG will cause estrogen problems, as you are currently experiencing. "You asked for 2 packs going forward" - your doctor should have said no. Unfortunately, you did not do DHT at this point. E2 was not optimal (but also not high at all), Free T should be better. Taking Avodart or anything similar to control DHT is a bad idea. DHT is required for libido and sexual function and many men have experienced permanent side effects from using these type of drugs even after discontinuing them. Using a high concentration T cream may give you better E2 and Free T numbers at the same 50mg dosage.

    How were you feeling on your regimen at the time on April 2005? Was there any reason you felt you needed an increase in your dose?

    You may want to consider working with an experienced doctor in order to avoid similar problems in future. Your good health should be your main concern when doing HRT, and it's important that it is done properly.
    Thank you for sharing your knowledge and time.
    .
    In April 2005 I felt down hill, I was in dire need of more T. The additional packet of Androgel made me feel better. Armed with my experience plus knowing that my current T=932 may be slightly over the range, I plan to get it down little bit. Often I take Androgel 2x5gram=10grams/24 hours and lately 5grams/12hours
    If I had a pump I could reduce my dose to 7.5grams/24hours, since I only have 5gram packets I will extend time, I just started one packet every 16 hours instead of 12, that should give me the desired amount of gel, with somewhat more frequent applications. Not sure of what that will do to the new theory of "pulsing", not even sure what it is.
    .
    I plan on taking some time a little of I3C and DIM as my E2=27 is only slightly higher than the desired E2=20
    .
    My DHT is a sore point. I have moderately enlarged prostate + frequent urination. I stopped Avodart for about 6 week, just before my blood test, so I can see how high my DHT will go, (it went to DHT=226). Now I am back on Avodart, one pill/day, until I see my prostate doctor on Dec 1. He will check my PSA. Since he uses PSA multiplier to men who use Avodart I need to be on the right dose, otherwise he is going to send me for another (hopefully unnecessary) biopsy. As long as I plan to be at University hospital I have to endure my docs orders, like it or not, reasonable or not.
    My follow up visit should be 6 months latter, so in mean time I plan to use Avodart only twice per week in order to rise my DHT to somewhat higher level than the DHT=29 on daily dose of Avodart.
    .
    I still did not tried tinkering with adrenals and thyroid, that may help some. I do not care about fertility as long as I have otherwise functioning pines. That probably mean no need for HCG. Hot feelings and spontaneous erections are probably in the past.
    .
    When I reach my stopping point using information I gather at this and similar sites, I probably will visit Dr Shippen, he is 2.5 hour drive from me.
    .
    1CC, wonder if it would make a sense to review multitude of supplements that I am taking. Mostly, 75%, they are 10 most recomended by LEF but I use some others?
    . Thanks for your input

  17. Quote Originally Posted by 1cc
    I use 25mg T cream and 100iu HCG every day.
    Quote Originally Posted by 1cc
    One gram of 100mg/gram T Cream contains 100mg testosterone.
    10grams AG contains 100mg testosterone.
    You will only know what blood level of T you will reach once you try it and do labs.
    Start with a conservative dosage of 50mg T cream (usually it is better to start with 25mg to see what your DHT conversion is like). Even this may raise your levels too high.

    It looks like the HCG is helping your testis in producing fair amount of T or the T cream is very effective.

    1. what is your T level on this regime, overal feeling, performance, etc?

    2. before I started my TRT, on 1/8/04 my
    FreeT=6 (2.6-64.8)pg/mL (Quest Diagnosics)
    T=311 (241-827) (hospital laboratory),
    hmmm
    may be I should try HCG

    3. I am resigned about DHT, the only thing I think of is how to minimize my dose of Avodart.

  18. When I did a search on DHT all I got was Hair Loss info then I came accross this link.
    Bodybuilding.com - Reform Mag - The Facts And Myths About: DHT!
    Phil

  19. Quote Originally Posted by pmgamer18
    Ok here is the other side of the coin on this. For me and a lot of other guys I have come accross. Lowing T does to keep E2 in check does work but I for one start having bad joint and muscle pain along with bad fatigue. We just got done trying this and I am doing less of a dose but we had to up my dose.

    I was doing 64mgs of Depo T shots every 3 days and 400IU's of HCG the 2 days each in between. On this my levels were:
    Total T = 1236 range 262 to 1593 ng/ml
    Free T = 39.1 range 8.8 to 27 pg/ml
    E2 was 25 range 13 to 54 pg/ml taking 1mg of Arimidex a day.

    We lowed my Depo T shot to 40mgs every 3 days and HCG stayed the same.

    In 6 weeks my test's were as follows.
    Total T = 807 same range.
    Free T = 22.5 same range.
    E2 was 20 doing .25mgs of Arimidex every 3 days.
    We stayed at this dose for 18 weeks and little by little my joints and muscles started hurting bad my fatigue got worse. Also I could not get it up any more even with my E2 in check had bad loss of libido.

    So we upped the dose to 50mgs every 3 days HCG the same.

    Now the pain is gone fatigue is better and libido is back and I can get it up.

    Last test was.

    Total T = 935
    Free T = 26.9
    E2 = 19 doing .5mgs of Arimidex every otherday.

    I don't feel I will ever be able to lower my Dose to get E2 down and not take Arimidex. Then I am over weight and 63.

    I have come accross a lot of men that had joint and muscle pain using Quest labs there Total T was about 600 they had no libido with bad ED they could not get it up and keep it up taking a pill. Just upping there dose so the labs are in the 800's there pain was gone and sex was much better.

    I feel having to take Arimidex is a small price to pay to feel better.
    Phil
    How do you get .5 mg of Aimidex? Do you split the pill? It's a pretty small pill.

  20. Yes I use a pill cutter and then at times use razor blaide and the the halfs in to 1/4's. This is why most men need to do this because doing a .5 mg is to much and most do better at .25mgs every 3 to 5 days.
    Phil

  21. Quote Originally Posted by pmgamer18
    When I did a search on DHT all I got was Hair Loss info then I came accross this link.
    Bodybuilding.com - Reform Mag - The Facts And Myths About: DHT!
    Phil
    Hi pmgamer18;
    AFAIK you had TURP or similar procedure done on your prostate so you could pee again. Sorry about it. Usually it is needed because when prostate grows the urethia is squezed.
    How large was your prostate before you had TURP?
    What was your DHT then and what is it now.
    Last time I had biopsy, 5/27/05 my prostate had a volume=70.2cc plus transition zone=42cc
    Without Avodart my DHT=226ng/dL, on it =29, (30-85) LabCorp
    LEF (30-50)

    It is delicate situation.

    Between the link you have posted and other info I am not sure what comes first and what follows. But, I think that larger prostate volume (possibly, initially due to high E2 or E2-T un-balance) produces more DHT. Avodart reduces DHT and prostate volume, according to their website.
    Avodart
    ----------=======================------------
    On the link you have posted the information is somewhat confusing, at least to me.
    My results (from LabCorp) for T and DHT are in ng/dL theirs are ng/mL
    to convert their units to mine one have to multiply by 100,
    1dL=100mL
    so they quote good results when one have
    DHT=250-600
    and T=150 (one hundred fifty)
    or (50-140)
    I see huge diferences and that is possibly due to laboratory specifics that they used.
    Also they deal with people that had prostates less than half of my size, I think, not sure, they post weight (grams) I have a volume (cc). But 1cc of water =1gram
    What did they used to control DHT?
    ============================== =======
    Quote from the link that you provided:
    The following two paragraphs taken from the patent study illustrates the results:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    In 27 subjects in which the plasma DHT level was controlled, so as to modulate the administered doses, said levels have been increased to 2.5 to 6 ng/ml. There resulted a decrease in gonadotrophy as well as in the plasma levels of testosterone which exceeded at least 1.5 ng/ ml (from 0.5 to 1.4 according to the case); as to the estradiol plasma levels, these decreased by 50% .
    Among this group of subjects, the volume of the prostate diminished significantly, as was evaluated by ultrasound and by PSA (Prostate Specific Antigen). The mean volume of the prostates was from 31.09. + .16.31 grams before treatment and from 26.34. + -. 12.72 grams after treatment, for a mean reduction of 15.4%, the treatment having a mean duration of 1.8 years with DHT (P= 0.01).


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  22. When I had this done some 8 yrs. ago I never knew about DHT and E2. I was on Hytrin to help me viod and this is a BP med and my BP was going down to low. So we did the TURP I call it a Rem Job. I have no info on the size of my Prostate but I can say later about 1 yr the problem came back just about the time I found out about high E2 in men. I tested very high and took Arimidex to get it down not 2 months late I was voiding normal.

    My last test my DHT was 54 range 25 - 75ng/ml before this test some 5 months ago I was at 115. I have never done anything but adjust my TRT to keep my DHT down one of the best things I did was get off gels and go on shots.
    Phill

  23. Quote Originally Posted by JanSz
    In April 2005 I felt down hill, I was in dire need of more T.
    This may have been because your E2 was 38 (3-70) and your Free T was 9.5 (6.6-18.1). Using a higher concentration T cream should lower your E2 and DHT and increase Free T and Total T.

    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz
    I plan on taking some time a little of I3C and DIM as my E2=27 is only slightly higher than the desired E2=20
    .
    My DHT is a sore point. I have moderately enlarged prostate + frequent urination. I stopped Avodart for about 6 week, just before my blood test, so I can see how high my DHT will go, (it went to DHT=226).
    Please note this sentence. The BEST way to reduce E2 and DHT is to adjust your TRT method and dosage. Tinkering with E2 and DHT numbers trying to get an optimal value using drugs is extremely difficult and undesireable.

    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz
    Since he uses PSA multiplier to men who use Avodart I need to be on the right dose, otherwise he is going to send me for another (hopefully unnecessary) biopsy.
    Since your doctor found it necessary to send you for a biopsy, this is all the more reason for you to work with an HRT doctor that will ensure that your treatment is not harmful to you and to monitor you closely.

    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz
    When I reach my stopping point using information I gather at this and similar sites, I probably will visit Dr Shippen, he is 2.5 hour drive from me.
    Since you have the good fortune to live close to Dr. Shippen and if it is possible for you to become a patient of his, you should not think twice about seeing him immediately. He is one of the best HRT doctors and you will be in good hands.

    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz
    I still did not tried tinkering with adrenals and thyroid, that may help some. I do not care about fertility as long as I have otherwise functioning pines. That probably mean no need for HCG.
    You need to have a complete set of labs done per Dr. Johns Recipe for Success document, and a proper evaluation to determine exactly what you need for HRT.

    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz
    Hot feelings and spontaneous erections are probably in the past.
    Dont be too sure about that. If your hormones are tuned up properly, you may be pleasantly surprised.

    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz
    1CC, wonder if it would make a sense to review multitude of supplements that I am taking. Mostly, 75%, they are 10 most recomended by LEF but I use some others?
    I have found that I needed less supplements with HRT. List your supplements.

    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz
    what is your T level on this regime, overal feeling, performance, etc?
    Estradiol 24 13-54
    Total T 469 241-827
    Free T 149 34-194
    Free and weakly bound T 312 84-402
    SHBG 16 13-71
    DHT 45 25-75

    I feel good. Performance is good. As a result of my low SHBG, my Free T is higher on a lower Total T. Free T is what is important. Things really got much better for me after adding in pregnenolone 10mg in the morning. So, dont expect that TRT alone is going to solve all your problems. You may have other issues that need to be addressed like thyroid and adrenals.

    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz
    I am resigned about DHT, the only thing I think of is how to minimize my dose of Avodart.
    These are my lab results using Androgel and using compounded T Cream 100mg/gram at exactly the same 25mg T dosage:

    Current labs using 25mg T cream 100mg/gram concentration:
    DHT 45 25-75

    In the past using 2.5g Androgel = 25mg T:
    DHT: 115 25-75

    Big difference. As you can see, using Androgel, DHT was 256% higher.

  24. Quote Originally Posted by JanSz
    ========================
    Thank you.
    ========================
    My results,
    april2005 T=664, LEF(500-827), FreeT=9.5, LEF(15-26.5), E2=38, LEF(10-30), One year on 5gram Androgel, I asked for 2 packs going forward
    8/26/2005 T=882, FreeT=27, E2=38, DHT=20, LEF(30-50), 2-5gram Androgel, Avodart
    5/5/2006 T=1039, FreeT=50, E2=26, DHT=29, 2-5gram Androgel, Avodart
    10/31/2006 T=932, FreeT=36.5, E2=27, DHT=226, 2-5gram Androgel, stopped Avodart for 6weeks to do the test, now continue it again

    I apply gel so as the blood is drawn approx 4 -5 hours latter, the arm where the blood is drawn did not see a gel.
    I use on/of, not always,
    Arimidex
    Chrysin w/piperine, DIM, I3C
    ============================== ===
    On Androgel leaflet it says that avg steady state of Testosterone is
    on 5grams --> 555 (+-225)
    on 10grams --> 713 (+-209)
    I think that I fit in with my results.
    And I would fit even better had I washed my hands of gel.
    ============================== ======
    Wonder if there is similar data for the T cream?
    I would preffer to have a good shot at the right dose the first time as I do blood test twice yearly, one thorough and the next as short test.
    Short test October 2006
    Total Estrogens------------------------------ ---260 pg/mL (40-115) LEs Optimal Range: 4077 pg/mL
    estrone, serum------------------------------- ----78 pg/mL (12-72)
    Estradiol, sensitive--------------------------- ----27 pg/mL (3-70) LEs Optimal Range: 1030 pg/mL
    Progesterone---------------------------------- ----1.4 ng/dL (0.3-1.2)
    Pregnenolone---------------------------------- ----23 ng/dL LEs Optimal Range: 100170 ng/dL
    Total Testosterone-------------------------- ---932 ng/dL (241-827) LEs Optimal Range 500827 ng/dL
    Free Testosterone--------------------------- --36.5 pg/mL (6.6-18.1) LEs Optimal Range: 1826.5 pg/mL
    DHT (dihydrotestosterone)--------------- ---226 ng/dL LEs Optimal Range: 3050 mg/dL
    prolactin, serum----------------------------- ----4.2 ng/dL (2.1-17.7) LEs Optimal Range: 2.15 ng/mL
    SHGB, serum-------------------------------------
    (TSH)-------------------------- --1.89 uIU/mL (0.350-5.5) LEs Optimal Range: 0.35 to 2.1 mIU/mL TSH below 1.5(Gary Field)
    Free triiodothyroxine (T3)----------------- --2.9 pg/mL (2.3-4.2) (3.67-4.2)per Crisgj2 =4.3-(4.2-2.3)/3=3.67
    Total T3------------------------------------------ ---104 ng/dL (85-205)
    Free T4(direct)-------------------------------- --1.37 ng/dL (0.61-1.76) Top of the FT4 and upper third for FT3 is what I look for
    DHEA Sulfate------------------------------------- ---369 ng/dL LEs Optimal Range: 400500 g/dL
    Cortisol, 4 Specimens---------------------------
    Hematocrit---------------------------------------- --45.6 % (36-50)
    I got my Cortisol tests today, blood drawn on last Monday 12/4/06 7:20AM and 3:20PM
    Cortisol (7:20)AM --24.2 g/dL (4.3-22.4)
    Cortisol (3:20)PM ----6.9 g/dL (3.1-16.7)
    ================
    --------------april2005 8/26/2005 5/5/2006
    Cortisol AM----20.9------20.5------18.6
    ================
    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz
    1cc, wonder if it would make a sense to review multitude of supplements that I am taking. Mostly, 75%, they are 10 most recomended by LEF but I use some others?
    Quote Originally Posted by 1cc
    I have found that I needed less supplements with HRT. List your supplements.
    Sorry 1cc, still working on my list of supplements.
    I am preparing shopping list for my next doctor's visit.
    First on that list is 100mg/1gram test cream. I communicated with womensinternational.com and confirmed, cost of 60 grams of cream is $60 plus $4.50 shipping.
    Next is HCG, if I am not mistaken, my prescription plan have Novarel, I plan on 250 IU twice per week as long term, but 3x/week first month, hopefully that will rebuild my testis and reduce required amount of T cream plus possibly help with ED.
    1cc, or someone else with good knowledge of Adrenals and Thyroid, please help.I am planning to add Armour Thyroid but not sure about what to make of my Cortisol test, ie; too high in the morning then low.

    I know, list of my supplements is important here but, as for starters, I am taking DHEA-350 mg, 7ketoDHEA-200, Pregnenolone-250mg.
    As for my complaints other than Ed, often need a afternoon nap, low temperatures, basal and thruot the day.
    I plan on taking Armour as much as I can but think that I could also use, possibly about 10mg hydrocortisone or Isocort.
    5'9", 155#, 66yo

  25. This is a good site to post your tests and get help.
    Stop The Thyroid Madness :: View Forum - ADRENALS and THYROID
    Phil
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