Does DHEA supplementation have any impact on the HPTA?
- 12-28-2006, 11:27 AM
One recent study showed that doses under 30 mg were not enough to significantly raise blood levels of DHEA in young adults (Cameron DR et al 2005). At these levels, DHEA has shown no major side effects.
All individuals react differently to DHEA replacement therapy, so it's a good idea to closely monitor your blood levels and side effects. If side effects appear, it may be possible to add 7-Keto DHEA and reduce the dose of DHEA.
- 12-28-2006, 11:56 AM
I am not knocking you for using LEF products but you do know they are about getting to you Buy Buy Buy and Buy again. I feel they have some good info but don't waste my money on there products. I have been down this road and flag for this is when your doing something they sell that does not work and they tell you it's because you need this. Like I said they are about selling there products and at a lot of money. You can find much better deals out there.
If I was to listen to them and buy all that they told me I would be on everything they sell.
Originally Posted by JanSz
- 12-28-2006, 12:07 PM
Originally Posted by Dr. John
12-28-2006, 12:11 PM
Sure androstenedione can be used to raise testosterone greatly, it is simply a matter of estrogen control with an anti-E. Same could be said for DHEA.
12-28-2006, 01:17 PM
So would using large doses of DHEA & an anti-e hurt the HPTA?Originally Posted by Werewolf
12-28-2006, 01:19 PM
It does?Originally Posted by Dr. John
12-28-2006, 01:37 PM
I had some impressive results (gyno ) with DHEA in a dermabolics carrier.Originally Posted by DR.D
Would the oral bioavailability of DHEA be increased by such simple things as grapefruit extract and suchlikes?
What is the enzyme responsible for conversion of DHEA to Testosterone? Would this enzyme have any oral bioavailability?Originally Posted by Dr. John
Also, provided an AI is already taken, will the oral DHEA be more likely to get turned into testosterone, or would that occur better with the transdermal?
Oh, and 600mg DHEA ED with some Arimidex makes me feel SOOOO GOOOD
12-28-2006, 02:15 PM
Is that advisor a physician?Originally Posted by JanSz
12-28-2006, 02:43 PM
You are entitled to your opinion.Originally Posted by pmgamer18
Ok; speaking about bi--ing about LEF.
If I had to bich, that would be more involved advisors assigned to particular "case"/member.
Mine got tired rather quickly.
However, advice that I got from my advisor, I was not able to get anywhere else.
One of their gods is Dr. Shippen,
but that is only one or three protocols from the list of probably 30 (I did not actually counted them) that they provide.
anti-aging is new field, and it is in my interest to keep open mind. Somebody, somewhere is working on better mouse trap.
12-28-2006, 02:47 PM
Dr. John;Originally Posted by Dr. John
Please provide known good quality DHEA source that is openly available for purchase. I will buy it and eat 350mg of it daily, one month before my next blood test and report results.
Happy New Year;
12-30-2006, 09:37 AM
Could a nice simple solution would be to get a blood test as a starting point then after result take 25 mgs BID of a good brand of DHEA restest a month later and if DHEA is still not adequete, but estrodial is slightly raises just to add 150 -300 mgs of DiM for an insurance policiy. then retest another month later. So with in 2 months you could have an constant reading were both DHEA and estrodial are in the healthy ranges. What are some reputable brand of dhea
Thanks prgmmer DIM with TMG works great for morning boners now so that defienitly tell me we have an estrogen problem going on and its never been the estrodial at all but the excess of conversion to estrone to bad estrogens. As indicated by the elevted xylene which was telling estrogen was culprit clogging it up. That probably why the armidex works so good but it was driving down my E2 as well as other ones (speculation)
12-30-2006, 02:21 PM
7-keto DHEA is a metabolite of DHEA. It increases thyroid hormone T3. It cannot be measured by doing a DHEA-s lab. It absorbs much better than DHEA, and does not need to be taken with something fatty or oily in order to absorb well.Originally Posted by BigAk
I currently use 25mg DHEA per day. I have used 7-keto DHEA before at 25mg per day. I found that it worked very well for blood sugar control, perhaps even better than regular DHEA. It did however make me feel more edgy as well as reduced my appetite significantly, probably because of the increase in T3 that it caused. Overall, I feel better taking 25mg of DHEA than 25mg of 7-keto DHEA.
12-30-2006, 11:20 PM
Originally Posted by Dr. JohnOriginally Posted by JanSz
I am already taking this amount of DHEA,Originally Posted by Dr. John
but you sugest that it is possibly of inferior quality.
So I would like to learn which product is of unquestionably good quality and us it. Nothing misterious or sacrificial about it.
For example, Phil went thru number of DIM products until he learned that only Indolplex works for him.
12-31-2006, 10:04 AM
I use this DHEA and it's made by the same people that make Indolplex/DIM. I have been on this for a long time. My Wife found a new Dr. and he found her DHEA to be below range and sold her the same brand.Originally Posted by JanSz
PhytoPharmica DHEA-25, 60 caps, PhytoPharmica - PhytoPharmica Immune System 25% Off
12-31-2006, 10:39 AM
Thank you, (but I am still waiting for our Dr. John favorite DHEA).Originally Posted by pmgamer18
What is your blood DHEAs level?
Did it changed with using this product?
12-31-2006, 11:36 AM
My last test was to high I have been on 25mgs 2x's a day for some time when I added Cortef HC my levels of Total T, Free T and DHEA went way up total t 1252 range 262 to 1593 we like to keep it at 800. DHEA went up over the top of the rance to 574 range 80 to 560 ug/dj so we cut back to just 25mgs.Originally Posted by JanSz
12-31-2006, 01:13 PM
I do not know what to say, I am eating massive amounts of (I think good quality) DHEA and I do see increase from 110 in Apr 05 to 369 in Oct 06. Not enough for the amount of consumed DHEA and 7ketoDHEA.Originally Posted by pmgamer18
When I get of my butt and start seriously with my adrenals/thyroid and add HCG to my plan I hope to change my DHEA situation. After all, DHEA is produced by adrenals. At the moment I am assuming that my adrenals need help.
I would like to assume that DHEA that I am using is of good quality and figure out what may be the reason for my slow response.
Side discussion on DHEA quality is a distraction in this goal and I would like to avoid that.
12-31-2006, 02:43 PM
12-31-2006, 07:13 PM
My Dr. has me fast for my blood work some of the tests he does needs me to fast and not do meds the morning of the test.
12-31-2006, 08:32 PM
How come when taking DIM your pee smells fouls liek really strong. Is that a good sign something is coming out ?
01-01-2007, 04:50 AM
I have read DIM can cause harmless changes in urine colour, it does excrete estrogen(metobolites?? byproducts??) through the urine.Originally Posted by hardasnails1973
01-01-2007, 09:49 AM
So does that means its workingOriginally Posted by ItsHectic
01-01-2007, 11:12 AM
I take my supplements mostly around 10AM and the small balance around 6PM.Originally Posted by Dr. John
in the morning 225mg + 100mg 7ketoDHEA
evening 125mg + 100mg 7ketoDHEA
Blood is drawn in the morning, fasting, 7:30AM
My skin is clean and rather dry.
I can go few days without showering, get wet from perspiration and still would not get the "old goat" smell, as I used to have on moments notice.
I used to feel "manly" smell minutes after the shower if I was hot and perspiring.
Now I probably could go by without deodorant.
Noted, I appreciate your public service, thank you very much for spreading good science.Originally Posted by Dr. John
I have settled (in my mind) that I am taking good quality supplements.
Now I am looking for other reasons to my slow response.
Dhea (Dehydroepiandrosterone) Free Base, 100 Mg 60 Capsules
The Life Extension Buyers Club offers DHEA supplements that conform to the following specifications:
99.9% purity (European-derived DHEA)
Micronized (for maximum absorption and utilization)
Manufactured under GMP (Good Manufacturing Practice) conditions
01-07-2007, 02:39 PM
Ran across this on an unrelated search on PubMed.
Possible support for Dr D's andogenicity claim...
1: J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol. 2006 Apr;99(1):50-8. Epub 2006 Mar 9. Links
Dehydroepiandrosterone and its metabolites: differential effects on androgen receptor trafficking and transcriptional activity.
Department of Biological Sciences, Lehigh University, Bethlehem, PA 18015, United States.
Dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) is a multi-functional steroid that has been implicated in a broad range of biological effects in humans and rodents. Recent studies demonstrated that DHEA acts genomically through the androgen receptor (AR) in addition to its well-known effects on cell surface receptors. However, the relative contribution of DHEA and its major metabolites, including DHEA-Sulfate (DHEA-S), 7alpha-OH-DHEA, 7beta-OH-DHEA, 7-oxo-DHEA, androstenedione (Adione), and androstenediol (Adiol), in the production of genomic effects remains controversial, in part because the metabolism of DHEA varies in different cells and tissues. In the current study, the ability of DHEA and its metabolites to promote AR intracellular trafficking and regulate AR-mediated reporter gene expression, which are characteristic effects of androgens, was determined. Intracellular trafficking of AR-GFP protein was assessed in COS-7 cells while AR transcriptional activity was tested in CV-1 cells transiently co-transfected with AR expression plasmid and an MMTV-ARE-CAT reporter. The results demonstrated that DHEA, the 3beta-HSD metabolite Adione, and the 17beta-HSD metabolite Adiol, were androgenic. Each promoted AR-GFP intracellular trafficking, the formation of nuclear clusters, and AR-dependent transcriptional activity in a dose-dependent manner. In contrast, DHEA-S, 7alpha-OH-DHEA, 7beta-OH-DHEA, and 7-oxo-DHEA were ineffective and exhibited minimal androgenic activity, even at relatively high concentrations (10(-6) M). These results provide the first systematic comparison of the (i) androgenic activity of DHEA and its sulfated and hydroxylated metabolites, (ii) relative androgenicity of DHEA itself vs. the established androgens Adione and Adiol, and (iii) ability of DHEA and its major metabolites to promote AR-GFP intracellular trafficking. In addition to partitioning DHEA and its metabolites into compounds with (DHEA, Adione, Adiol) and without (DHEA-S, 7alpha-OH-DHEA, 7beta-OH-DHEA, and 7-oxo-DHEA) androgenic activity, the findings improve our understanding of the intracellular processes mediating the genomic effects of DHEA through AR.
PMID: 16524719 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
01-07-2007, 10:21 PM
I like that study Bioman!
01-08-2007, 07:53 PM
So Dr. John, unless I've missed it...when would be the best time to take an AI while on DHEA?...I have 6oxo and it's recommended to be taken with the last meal of the day but I will be taking my DHEA morning and noon.
01-09-2007, 03:49 AM
I'm telling you guys, DHEA is a stronger androgen qualitatively that DHT in some tissues (skin for instance). I've been doing this too long to ignore the truth, whether it adds up on paper or not.Originally Posted by Dr. John
01-10-2007, 12:34 PM
Prgmmer i ran out of isocort and its been about 4 days despite being on testosterone libido was high and then it totally crashed. Could just 4 days off isocort have this effect and If I get an ACth stimulation test would being on isocort alter those results. Would i have to stop isocort for few days to get accurrate results? Plus my weight dropped about 6 lbs in 4 days all over varaible the same coudl lack of cortisol result in that so qucikly ?
01-10-2007, 12:54 PM
There can be to reasions for doing ACTH test one is to see if your Adrenals work or if you pituitary is the problem. This test you need to be off Isocort of Cortisol 2 weeks. The other reasion is to see if your getting enough HC or Isocort to help your Adrenals If one is on 20mgs of Cortisol and there ACTH is high not the stim. test then your not taking enough a lot of us the med is killed in the Stomach. So one needs to do both Cortisol morning blood test and ACTH. If your on Cortisol you need to come off it slow to give your Adrenals time to come back if they can. If your trying to stop and feeling sick you comming off it to fast or you can't. If you run out of Isocort get some HC cream 1 tsp 3 times a day on your skin with keep you from crashing.
Now I got this off the net for what this is worth.
And I am not a Dr. so take it from there.
Originally Posted by hardasnails1973
01-10-2007, 01:11 PM
Well like you said I probably crashed rally hard. My joints are so sore I am like WTF.. So just get some isocort should help me feel better. That easy enough. I just called the health food store and they have a bottle so I am going over to get that. If a person is on testosterone and has adrenal fatigue. Having low cortisol levels with out the HC and high test is going to make you feel worse because they are antagonist right? just start back on normal dosage wher ei left off wheni get isocort ?
01-10-2007, 04:32 PM
Originally Posted by pmgamer18
I find that their supplements are of high quality and reasonably priced as long as you are getting them at member prices. It is true, though, that they are more about selling supps than about life extension.
01-10-2007, 07:26 PM
So did you give her a Free Check Up.Originally Posted by Dr. John
01-10-2007, 07:27 PM
No go back on it slow but faster then when you first started.Originally Posted by hardasnails1973
01-10-2007, 07:43 PM
Did you get any pictures of the redhead? I mean.....sure would like to hear about the article.Originally Posted by Dr. John
01-11-2007, 07:47 PM
I am buiying 95% of my supplements from LEF at member prices. Sometimes they have additional sales.Originally Posted by cpeil2
I try not to hoard my supplements, buy maximum 4 even when 10 have a better price. They often revise formula following their lattest research. Those changes are discussed in their monthly magazine or on the web. Recently they changed some packaging, possibly change of supplier.
Top 10 Most Important Steps For Achieving Ultimate Health
Life Extension recommends that all members use this basic Top 10 listing as a guide to developing their own supplement program. Members have the exclusive benefit of speaking with a knowledgeable advisor at anytime via a toll-free phone line (1-800-226-2370) who will help develop a personalized supplement regimen to meet their individual health concerns.
If LEF is listening, please improve on advisors.
01-12-2007, 12:32 PM
Originally Posted by JanSz
They seem to have been hit with a run of high employee turnover. It used to be when I ordered over the phone that I talked with the same people from one transaction to the next, and they were pretty knowledgable--they knew the products and lab tests
Recently, the phone people are always different, and they tend to be poorly trained. When you order lab tests, there is a very high probability that they will get the order incorrect.
01-12-2007, 02:03 PM
Now that will kick up one's libido.Originally Posted by Dr. John
01-12-2007, 04:14 PM
If it doesn't, then that probably confirms a diagnosis of hypogonadal!Originally Posted by pmgamer18
01-12-2007, 09:22 PM
The phone operators are probably minimum wage people, there is a shortage of people who are actually willing to work so turnover may be higher now.Originally Posted by cpeil2
I always order supplements online, never had any problems.
Never ordered tests.
My experience was not as good when communicating with advisors. But then, I possibly ask too many questions.
The advice I got was good. I ended communicating by e-mail, eventually got good communication and advice.
I must say that he was not able to read pictures of scanned tests or excel tables I was trying to send him. Ended mailing it by snail mail.
Few months latter I checked, he was still there but when I send him new tests he stop responding.
01-18-2007, 05:01 AM
Originally Posted by DR.D
EDITED BY DR CRISLER: CYCLE INFO REQUEST.
DR D IS DISCUSSING PATHWAYS, WHICH WE NEED TO HEAR ABOUT, NOT HOW TO DO STEROIDS.
Last edited by Dr. John; 01-18-2007 at 06:43 AM.
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