Does DHEA supplementation have any impact on the HPTA?

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  1. I'm sorry, I wasn't thinking and phrased my question wrong in that context. I did do a little more searching and found what I was looking for. I was meaning to ask about estrogen's positive effects on blood lipids, immune system, etc. Thank you for the reply so quickly.


  2. So.... Just to re-confirm my conclusion; a dose of 25mg per day will in no way convert into estrogen, correct?

    Also, another question. I understand that dhea is a precursor for testosterone production. Do the testes produce DHEA also in addition to the adrenal glands? If so, does dhea play any role in the feedback mechanism?... How??

    Can DHEA levels come back slowly on their own after "successful" PCT without supplementation?
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by BigAk
    So.... Just to re-confirm my conclusion; a dose of 25mg per day will in no way convert into estrogen, correct?

    Also, another question. I understand that dhea is a precursor for testosterone production. Do the testes produce DHEA also in addition to the adrenal glands? If so, does dhea play any role in the feedback mechanism?... How??

    Can DHEA levels come back slowly on their own after "successful" post cycle therapy without supplementation?
    I had no problems with taking 25mgs. of DHEA 2x's a day E2 was the same test to test. I did add HC to help my Adrenals and my next test came back over the top of the range had to cut back to one time a day.
    Phil

  4. Quote Originally Posted by pmgamer18
    I had no problems with taking 25mgs. of DHEA 2x's a day E2 was the same test to test. I did add HC to help my Adrenals and my next test came back over the top of the range had to cut back to one time a day.
    Phil
    What is HC Phil??

  5. Quote Originally Posted by BigAk
    What is HC Phil??
    Sorry it's hydrocortisone.
    Phil
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by Dr. John
    I wonder if some of the actions of DHEA are through estrogen receptors? Perhaps someone with time to do searches (hint, hint) can check that out.
    LEF
    DHEA (Dehydroepiandrosterone) is a precursor to the sex hormones. It is transformed into estrogen, progesterone, and testosterone within the body, all of which are needed at youthful levels to avoid the deterioration of aging. One problem with taking DHEA to replace depleted sex hormones is that the ratio of these hormones converted from DHEA is uncertain.
    PDR Health
    It has been proposed that DHEA be used (much as estrogen replacement therapy is used) in post-menopausal women to compensate for endogenous age-related and menopause-accelerated declines in DHEA. A dose of 50 milligrams daily has been suggested for this purpose, but there are no clinical trials demonstrating that this regimen would either be effective or safe long-term. It has been noted that DHEA can bring estrogen levels in postmenopausal women to levels equal to that observed in standard hormone-replacement therapy. This may prove risky inasmuch as it has been shown that taking estrogen without concomitant use of progesterone is an established risk factor for uterine cancer.



    some extra info

    PubMed
    DHEA MECHANISM OF ACTION: Potential mechanisms of action for DHEA
    are extensive. The range of projected actions is so wide (brain,
    cardiovascular and immune system effects, anti-cancer or carcinogenic
    (depending on dose), anti-obesity, bone protective, etc.), it raises
    the question of whether a single compound is responsible for all of
    the actions. Ongoing studies suggest several mechanisms of action:
    a) as a non-competitive inhibitor of glucose 6-phosphate
    dehydrogenase (G6PD), the rate-limiting enzyme in the pentose
    phosphate pathway which provides ribose 5-phosphate and NADPH, b) as
    a "neurosteroid" through interactions with neuronal GABA and sigma
    receptors, c) through regulation of enzyme activity or bioregulatory
    factors and their receptors (e.g., enoyl CoA hydratase,
    carbomylphosphate synthetase, malic enzyme, glycerol-3- phosphate
    dehydrogenase, T cell IgD receptor, cytokines), or d) through
    regulation of gene expression (e.g., various cytochrome P450s,
    NADPH-cytochrome P450 reductase, fatty acyl CoA oxidase). There are a
    small number of reports in the literature of 'receptors' for DHEA,
    but as yet no study has unequivocally identified these DHEA 'binding
    proteins' as nuclear transcription factors.
    cut and paste into google for the exact source.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by pmgamer18
    I had no problems with taking 25mgs. of DHEA 2x's a day E2 was the same test to test. I did add HC to help my Adrenals and my next test came back over the top of the range had to cut back to one time a day.
    Phil
    Dhea or E2 was elevated?

  8. Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973
    Dhea or E2 was elevated?
    Adding HC my DHEA, Total and Free T levels went way up. Total T went from 900 1250.
    Phil

  9. DHEA (Dehydroepiandrosterone) is a precursor to the sex hormones. It is transformed into estrogen, progesterone, and testosterone within the body, all of which are needed at youthful levels to avoid the deterioration of aging. One problem with taking DHEA to replace depleted sex hormones is that the ratio of these hormones converted from DHEA is uncertain.

    After all the research ItsHectic has presented, I am really reluctant to using DHEA as a supplement as I'm afraid that it may convert mostly to Estrogen rather than testosterone... even at 25mg per day.

  10. Quote Originally Posted by BigAk
    DHEA (Dehydroepiandrosterone) is a precursor to the sex hormones. It is transformed into estrogen, progesterone, and testosterone within the body, all of which are needed at youthful levels to avoid the deterioration of aging. One problem with taking DHEA to replace depleted sex hormones is that the ratio of these hormones converted from DHEA is uncertain.

    After all the research ItsHectic has presented, I am really reluctant to using DHEA as a supplement as I'm afraid that it may convert mostly to Estrogen rather than testosterone... even at 25mg per day.
    You guys are nuts! I'm telling you this stuff has a major androgenic predominance! I can't take over 200mg/d without getting acne and growing body hair. It is not estrogenic at all. If anything, it's too androgenic. That's it main limiting factor. Try it and see what I mean. A week of dose experimentation will not kill you either way and is extremely unlikely to result in any sequelae. It will totally change your mind because you got the wrong idea about DHEA!

  11. Quote Originally Posted by BigAk
    DHEA (Dehydroepiandrosterone) is a precursor to the sex hormones. It is transformed into estrogen, progesterone, and testosterone within the body, all of which are needed at youthful levels to avoid the deterioration of aging. One problem with taking DHEA to replace depleted sex hormones is that the ratio of these hormones converted from DHEA is uncertain.

    After all the research ItsHectic has presented, I am really reluctant to using DHEA as a supplement as I'm afraid that it may convert mostly to Estrogen rather than testosterone... even at 25mg per day.
    Quote Originally Posted by DR.D
    You guys are nuts! I'm telling you this stuff has a major androgenic predominance! I can't take over 200mg/d without getting acne and growing body hair. It is not estrogenic at all. If anything, it's too androgenic. That's it main limiting factor. Try it and see what I mean. A week of dose experimentation will not kill you either way and is extremely unlikely to result in any sequelae. It will totally change your mind because you got the wrong idea about DHEA!
    April-2005 my DHEAs was 118 (280-640 g/dL)
    I am supplementing long time with
    300mg DHEA
    and
    50mg DHEA plus 200mg 7ketoDHEA
    My blood DHEAs went up only to 369
    thinking of additional increase since LEF recomends (400-600)
    I am probably missing on some other nutrients, what that may be?
    I am 66yo, 5'9", 155#
    I am taking (good quality DHEA from LEF), so hopefully quality is of no concern here.
    Dhea Complete, 60 Capsules
    Dhea (Dehydroepiandrosterone) Free Base, 100 Mg 60 Capsules

  12. Quote Originally Posted by JanSz
    April-2005 my DHEAs was 118 (280-640 g/dL)
    I am supplementing long time with
    300mg DHEA
    and
    50mg DHEA plus 200mg 7ketoDHEA
    My blood DHEAs went up only to 369
    thinking of additional increase since LEF recomends (400-600)
    I am probably missing on some other nutrients, what that may be?
    I am 66yo, 5'9", 155#
    I am taking (good quality DHEA from LEF), so hopefully quality is of no concern here.
    Dhea Complete, 60 Capsules
    Dhea (Dehydroepiandrosterone) Free Base, 100 Mg 60 Capsules
    So what's the difference between 7ketoDHEA and the plain DHEA?? And why do we need to take both?

  13. EDIT by Dr. Crisler: THAT question is out of bounds with respect to steroid use. Sorry.
    Last edited by Dr. John; 12-26-2006 at 05:48 PM.

  14. Quote Originally Posted by Dr. John
    ... I can also share with you that the top Thought Leaders in my field I have discussed this important topic with are in agreement with me.
    I'm in agreement with you too. I am suggesting that I must be an atypical responder due to differences in enzymes or something, because DHEA is a stronger androgen (qualitatively) than anything else I have ever used, as far as literal manifestations like acne, body hair growth, etc. you would associate with androgen and no estrogen sides at all. I would guess this paradoxical response may be more common than currently recognized unless it is truly just an idiosyncrasy. Look at the individual above that has been using 300mg and is still not even in range!

  15. Quote Originally Posted by DR.D
    Well, with an AI it only helps with me! That's all I can say.
    EDIT BY DR. CRISLER: NO anabolic steroids TALK, PLEASE.

  16. I realize that DHEA is produced by the adrenal glands as well as by the testes. My questions are:

    1) what prompts the testes to produce DHEA?? Is there a negative feedback mechanism similar to testosterone production??

    2) If the SERMs cause an increase in testosterone production via LH, do they also prompt the testes to produce more DHEA precursor??

    3) If someone is trying to recover his HPTA and increase testosterone production via SERMs, is it futile to do so if the levels of DHEA are below normal?

    4) If Total Estrogen is high in a patient with a below-normal DHEA and low-normal E2, isn't it counterproductive to supplement with DHEA (even at a low dose of 25mg) and risk wrecking HPTA recovery with elevating Total Estrogen to even higher levels?

    5)...... that's it for now...

  17. Quote Originally Posted by Dr. John
    ...
    The question which remains is proper dosing. In my extensive experience, I find that 25mg BID provides a healthy dose of DHEA, without substantial elevation of E. OTOH, I have used higher doses of DHEA successfully when E was too low.
    ...
    Is 7-Keto DHEA the same, or should this just be "plain" DHEA?

    Thanks.
    WF

  18. Quote Originally Posted by BigAk
    So what's the difference between 7ketoDHEA and the plain DHEA?? And why do we need to take both?
    Bump... I asked this a few posts back Wildfox...

  19. I did 7 Keto and it did nothing for me but take my money.
    Phil

  20. I have an appointment with the venerable Dr. John tomorrow about it, so then I'll know for sure. I did some reading (Google knows everything), and it looks like 7-keto DHEA does not convert to T or E. It is a metabolite (converted from) of DHEA. Apparently DHEA gets converted to a whole mess of things in different places in the body, including T and E, but 7-keto DHEA does not get converted to either.

    here are some links
    Le Magazine, May 2005 - Cover Story: 7-Keto Dhea The Fat-Burning Metabolite Of Dhea
    DHEA for Antiaging*-*Dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA): Encyclopedia Article

  21. It seems like 7-keto has poorer oral bioavailability than regular DHEA..that and it is far more expensive.

  22. Quote Originally Posted by BigAk
    I realize that DHEA is produced by the adrenal glands as well as by the testes. My questions are:

    1) what prompts the testes to produce DHEA?? Is there a negative feedback mechanism similar to testosterone production??

    2) If the SERMs cause an increase in testosterone production via LH, do they also prompt the testes to produce more DHEA precursor??

    3) If someone is trying to recover his HPTA and increase testosterone production via SERMs, is it futile to do so if the levels of DHEA are below normal?

    4) If Total Estrogen is high in a patient with a below-normal DHEA and low-normal E2, isn't it counterproductive to supplement with DHEA (even at a low dose of 25mg) and risk wrecking HPTA recovery with elevating Total Estrogen to even higher levels?

    5)...... that's it for now...
    Bump for answers....

  23. The statement the DHEA doesn't produce testosterone in the male body isn't really true. It really matter when you measure it. The amount of estrogen that DHEA produces will tend to push back on the HTPA axis. See the attached charts. Since it does indeed produce a testerone spike, there will be also be DHT spike too.

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    Name:  DHEA-Estrogen.jpg
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    Name:  DHEA.jpg
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    As time goes along the extra estrogen in men is going to push on HTPA axis and balance the Testosterone back down. You could use an AI to lower the estrogen back down and reduce the push on HTPA axis.

  24. I had to wait until MSIE loaded the JPGs fully, then find the "expand" button at the bottom right to bring them to proper magnification.

  25. Are there any studies that show a correlation between the percentage body fat one has and the degree to which DHEA will end up being E2?
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