Does DHEA supplementation have any impact on the HPTA?

Page 3 of 4 First 1234 Last
  1. Registered User
    JanSz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    4,631
    Rep Power
    2413

    One recent study showed that doses under 30 mg were not enough to significantly raise blood levels of DHEA in young adults (Cameron DR et al 2005). At these levels, DHEA has shown no major side effects.
    -------------
    All individuals react differently to DHEA replacement therapy, so it's a good idea to closely monitor your blood levels and side effects. If side effects appear, it may be possible to add 7-Keto DHEA and reduce the dose of DHEA.

    Print Friendly

  2. Registered User
    pmgamer18's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    1,532
    Rep Power
    1090

    I am not knocking you for using LEF products but you do know they are about getting to you Buy Buy Buy and Buy again. I feel they have some good info but don't waste my money on there products. I have been down this road and flag for this is when your doing something they sell that does not work and they tell you it's because you need this. Like I said they are about selling there products and at a lot of money. You can find much better deals out there.
    If I was to listen to them and buy all that they told me I would be on everything they sell.
    Phil
    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz
    LEF advisor is reviewing and recommending my supplements.
    1-800-226-2370 (Membership required, I think)
    In their DHEA restoration protocol they state:
    quote:
    "As part of a comprehensive approach to fighting the diseases of aging, Life Extension recommends that people monitor their blood levels of DHEA and strive to reproduce hormone levels of a healthy 21-year-old. Fortunately, DHEA is well tolerated as a supplement, with only minimal side effects even at relatively high doses."
    ---------------------------
    With all this I am obviously open to all opinions.
    At this moment I suspect that when people are reporting adverse results of taking rather minimal amounts of DHEA,
    I am not doubting what they report, but there may be another than DHEA reason for their problems, or case of some unidentified interactions.
    I have similar suspicion on Finasteride, when people stop using it and still have a problems after more than 2 months. It did not happen, at least in my case in regard to DHT. I do not have a personal experience of Finasteride causing low T way after it is not used any more.
    ----------------------------
    I must say that over year ago LEF advisor recomended Armour Thyroid for me. I was not able to get script for it, that may change soon.
  3. board observer
    Moyer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Age
    31
    Posts
    880
    Rep Power
    572

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. John
    Let me say it ONE MORE TIME. DHEA must convert to androstenedione before it can convert to testosterone. Just look at the pathways. Does anyone want to make the claim you can elevate T with androstenedione (for the Big Mac fans out there. lol)? Androstenedione is aromatized to estrone, as T is to estradiol. In fact, androstenedione is a more preferable substrate for aromatase than testosterone is. Hence the shunting to E. This is why you will boost estrogen, not testosterone, by taking very much DHEA.
    I was under the impression that androstenedione converted to test at a very low rate (5.6%)? But isn't that much better than zero?
    •   
       

  4. Registered User
    Werewolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Age
    54
    Posts
    731
    Rep Power
    476

    Sure androstenedione can be used to raise testosterone greatly, it is simply a matter of estrogen control with an anti-E. Same could be said for DHEA.
  5. board observer
    Moyer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Age
    31
    Posts
    880
    Rep Power
    572

    Quote Originally Posted by Werewolf
    Sure androstenedione can be used to raise testosterone greatly, it is simply a matter of estrogen control with an anti-E. Same could be said for DHEA.
    So would using large doses of DHEA & an anti-e hurt the HPTA?
  6. board observer
    Moyer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Age
    31
    Posts
    880
    Rep Power
    572

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. John
    Your post does shed light into the actual actions of the pathways.
    It does?
  7. Registered User
    Grunt76's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"  272 lbs.
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Montreal, Canada
    Age
    46
    Posts
    3,132
    Rep Power
    1783

    Quote Originally Posted by DR.D
    Well, oral delivery of testosterone results in unusually high levels of 17-keto metabolites (androstenedione). Unfavorable metabolism starts in the gut, not to mention the first pass in the liver like you mentioned earlier and the aromatase induction that a hormonal spike will promote. 17-ketos are exceptional substrates for this enzyme. You may as well take a little estrone! DHEA seems well suited for oral use because it is already oxidized at the C-17 plus it is apparently very well absorbed and I have never been able to find a good TD delivery system, so I had abandoned that concept until you got me thinking of it again, but test is certainly better delivered TD over oral.
    I had some impressive results (gyno ) with DHEA in a dermabolics carrier.

    Would the oral bioavailability of DHEA be increased by such simple things as grapefruit extract and suchlikes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. John
    Please refer to the previously posted abstract which demonstrates DHEA readily converts to estrogen. Other studies have shown similar results, so this simply is not in question. The pathways are very clear, in all endocrinology books. I think I have already discussed this pathway in this very thread.

    Try taking 200mg QD of DHEA, in absence of any AI or SERM administration. You will indeed find grossly elevated estrogen as a result.

    The question which remains is proper dosing. In my extensive experience, I find that 25mg BID provides a healthy dose of DHEA, without substantial elevation of E. OTOH, I have used higher doses of DHEA successfully when E was too low.

    In fact, DHEA can be used to elevate E in adult males, but it conversely elevates T in females. Go figure.

    I can also share with you that the top Thought Leaders in my field I have discussed this important topic with are in agreement with me.
    What is the enzyme responsible for conversion of DHEA to Testosterone? Would this enzyme have any oral bioavailability?

    Also, provided an AI is already taken, will the oral DHEA be more likely to get turned into testosterone, or would that occur better with the transdermal?

    Oh, and 600mg DHEA ED with some Arimidex makes me feel SOOOO GOOOD

    Thanks
  8. Registered User
    wildfox's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    330
    Rep Power
    263

    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz
    LEF advisor is reviewing and recommending my supplements....
    Is that advisor a physician?
  9. Registered User
    JanSz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    4,631
    Rep Power
    2413

    Quote Originally Posted by pmgamer18
    I am not knocking you for using LEF products but you do know they are about getting to you Buy Buy Buy and Buy again. I feel they have some good info but don't waste my money on there products. I have been down this road and flag for this is when your doing something they sell that does not work and they tell you it's because you need this. Like I said they are about selling there products and at a lot of money. You can find much better deals out there.
    If I was to listen to them and buy all that they told me I would be on everything they sell.
    Phil
    You are entitled to your opinion.
    Ok; speaking about bi--ing about LEF.
    If I had to bich, that would be more involved advisors assigned to particular "case"/member.
    Mine got tired rather quickly.
    However, advice that I got from my advisor, I was not able to get anywhere else.
    -------------------------------
    One of their gods is Dr. Shippen,
    but that is only one or three protocols from the list of probably 30 (I did not actually counted them) that they provide.
    --------------------------------
    Whatever;
    anti-aging is new field, and it is in my interest to keep open mind. Somebody, somewhere is working on better mouse trap.
    .
  10. Registered User
    JanSz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    4,631
    Rep Power
    2413

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. John
    Then they used a very poor quality product.

    I can tell you that a single 25mg dose of a good DHEA will elevate a 24 hour urine about 6X normal range.
    Dr. John;
    Please provide known good quality DHEA source that is openly available for purchase. I will buy it and eat 350mg of it daily, one month before my next blood test and report results.
    .
    Happy New Year;
  11. Running with the Big Boys
    hardasnails1973's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    2,039
    Rep Power
    1159

    Could a nice simple solution would be to get a blood test as a starting point then after result take 25 mgs BID of a good brand of DHEA restest a month later and if DHEA is still not adequete, but estrodial is slightly raises just to add 150 -300 mgs of DiM for an insurance policiy. then retest another month later. So with in 2 months you could have an constant reading were both DHEA and estrodial are in the healthy ranges. What are some reputable brand of dhea


    Thanks prgmmer DIM with TMG works great for morning boners now so that defienitly tell me we have an estrogen problem going on and its never been the estrodial at all but the excess of conversion to estrone to bad estrogens. As indicated by the elevted xylene which was telling estrogen was culprit clogging it up. That probably why the armidex works so good but it was driving down my E2 as well as other ones (speculation)
  12. 1cc
    1cc is offline
    Registered User
    1cc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    120
    Rep Power
    158

    Quote Originally Posted by BigAk
    So what's the difference between 7ketoDHEA and the plain DHEA?? And why do we need to take both?
    7-keto DHEA is a metabolite of DHEA. It increases thyroid hormone T3. It cannot be measured by doing a DHEA-s lab. It absorbs much better than DHEA, and does not need to be taken with something fatty or oily in order to absorb well.

    I currently use 25mg DHEA per day. I have used 7-keto DHEA before at 25mg per day. I found that it worked very well for blood sugar control, perhaps even better than regular DHEA. It did however make me feel more edgy as well as reduced my appetite significantly, probably because of the increase in T3 that it caused. Overall, I feel better taking 25mg of DHEA than 25mg of 7-keto DHEA.
  13. Registered User
    JanSz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    4,631
    Rep Power
    2413

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. John
    Then they used a very poor quality product.

    I can tell you that a single 25mg dose of a good DHEA will elevate a 24 hour urine about 6X normal range.
    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz
    Dr. John;
    Please provide known good quality DHEA source that is openly available for purchase. I will buy it and eat 350mg of it daily, one month before my next blood test and report results.
    .
    Happy New Year;

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. John
    Thank you for sacrificing your body to science. LOL.

    BTW, I am not recommending you do this.
    I am already taking this amount of DHEA,
    but you sugest that it is possibly of inferior quality.
    So I would like to learn which product is of unquestionably good quality and us it. Nothing misterious or sacrificial about it.
    ..................
    For example, Phil went thru number of DIM products until he learned that only Indolplex works for him.
  14. Registered User
    pmgamer18's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    1,532
    Rep Power
    1090

    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz
    I am already taking this amount of DHEA,
    but you sugest that it is possibly of inferior quality.
    So I would like to learn which product is of unquestionably good quality and us it. Nothing misterious or sacrificial about it.
    ..................
    For example, Phil went thru number of DIM products until he learned that only Indolplex works for him.
    I use this DHEA and it's made by the same people that make Indolplex/DIM. I have been on this for a long time. My Wife found a new Dr. and he found her DHEA to be below range and sold her the same brand.
    PhytoPharmica DHEA-25, 60 caps, PhytoPharmica - PhytoPharmica Immune System 25% Off
    Phil
  15. Registered User
    JanSz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    4,631
    Rep Power
    2413

    Quote Originally Posted by pmgamer18
    I use this DHEA and it's made by the same people that make Indolplex/DIM. I have been on this for a long time. My Wife found a new Dr. and he found her DHEA to be below range and sold her the same brand.
    PhytoPharmica DHEA-25, 60 caps, PhytoPharmica - PhytoPharmica Immune System 25% Off
    Phil
    Thank you, (but I am still waiting for our Dr. John favorite DHEA).
    What is your blood DHEAs level?
    Did it changed with using this product?
  16. Registered User
    pmgamer18's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    1,532
    Rep Power
    1090

    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz
    Thank you, (but I am still waiting for our Dr. John favorite DHEA).
    What is your blood DHEAs level?
    Did it changed with using this product?
    My last test was to high I have been on 25mgs 2x's a day for some time when I added Cortef HC my levels of Total T, Free T and DHEA went way up total t 1252 range 262 to 1593 we like to keep it at 800. DHEA went up over the top of the rance to 574 range 80 to 560 ug/dj so we cut back to just 25mgs.
    Phil
  17. Registered User
    JanSz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    4,631
    Rep Power
    2413

    Quote Originally Posted by pmgamer18
    My last test was to high I have been on 25mgs 2x's a day for some time when I added Cortef HC my levels of Total T, Free T and DHEA went way up total t 1252 range 262 to 1593 we like to keep it at 800. DHEA went up over the top of the rance to 574 range 80 to 560 ug/dj so we cut back to just 25mgs.
    Phil
    I do not know what to say, I am eating massive amounts of (I think good quality) DHEA and I do see increase from 110 in Apr 05 to 369 in Oct 06. Not enough for the amount of consumed DHEA and 7ketoDHEA.
    When I get of my butt and start seriously with my adrenals/thyroid and add HCG to my plan I hope to change my DHEA situation. After all, DHEA is produced by adrenals. At the moment I am assuming that my adrenals need help.
    ---------------
    I would like to assume that DHEA that I am using is of good quality and figure out what may be the reason for my slow response.
    Side discussion on DHEA quality is a distraction in this goal and I would like to avoid that.
  18. Registered User
    BigAk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    291
    Rep Power
    243

    Just in case anyone is interested. Here's a nice looking figure that outlines the Adrenal pathways of androgens...

    http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2001/...s_03_large.jpg
  19. Registered User
    pmgamer18's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    1,532
    Rep Power
    1090

    My Dr. has me fast for my blood work some of the tests he does needs me to fast and not do meds the morning of the test.
    Phil
  20. Running with the Big Boys
    hardasnails1973's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    2,039
    Rep Power
    1159

    How come when taking DIM your pee smells fouls liek really strong. Is that a good sign something is coming out ?
  21. Registered User
    ItsHectic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    1,607
    Rep Power
    4374

    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973
    How come when taking DIM your pee smells fouls liek really strong. Is that a good sign something is coming out ?
    I have read DIM can cause harmless changes in urine colour, it does excrete estrogen(metobolites?? byproducts??) through the urine.
  22. Running with the Big Boys
    hardasnails1973's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    2,039
    Rep Power
    1159

    Quote Originally Posted by ItsHectic
    I have read DIM can cause harmless changes in urine colour, it does excrete estrogen(metobolites?? byproducts??) through the urine.
    So does that means its working
  23. Registered User
    JanSz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    4,631
    Rep Power
    2413

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. John
    How long after you took it did you have the blood draw?
    I take my supplements mostly around 10AM and the small balance around 6PM.
    DHEA,
    in the morning 225mg + 100mg 7ketoDHEA
    evening 125mg + 100mg 7ketoDHEA
    Blood is drawn in the morning, fasting, 7:30AM
    --------------------------------------------------
    My skin is clean and rather dry.
    I can go few days without showering, get wet from perspiration and still would not get the "old goat" smell, as I used to have on moments notice.
    I used to feel "manly" smell minutes after the shower if I was hot and perspiring.
    Now I probably could go by without deodorant.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. John
    BTW, I'm not here to recommend any particular brand. Sorry.
    Noted, I appreciate your public service, thank you very much for spreading good science.
    ============================== ============
    I have settled (in my mind) that I am taking good quality supplements.
    Now I am looking for other reasons to my slow response.

    ============================== ============
    Dhea (Dehydroepiandrosterone) Free Base, 100 Mg 60 Capsules
    DHEA supplementation
    The Life Extension Buyers Club offers DHEA supplements that conform to the following specifications:

    99.9% purity (European-derived DHEA)
    Micronized (for maximum absorption and utilization)
    Manufactured under GMP (Good Manufacturing Practice) conditions
  24. Registered User
    bioman's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  180 lbs.
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Flagstaff, AZ
    Age
    42
    Posts
    7,699
    Rep Power
    513131

    Ran across this on an unrelated search on PubMed.

    Possible support for Dr D's andogenicity claim...

    1: J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol. 2006 Apr;99(1):50-8. Epub 2006 Mar 9. Links
    Dehydroepiandrosterone and its metabolites: differential effects on androgen receptor trafficking and transcriptional activity.

    Mo Q,
    Lu SF,
    Simon NG.
    Department of Biological Sciences, Lehigh University, Bethlehem, PA 18015, United States.

    Dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) is a multi-functional steroid that has been implicated in a broad range of biological effects in humans and rodents. Recent studies demonstrated that DHEA acts genomically through the androgen receptor (AR) in addition to its well-known effects on cell surface receptors. However, the relative contribution of DHEA and its major metabolites, including DHEA-Sulfate (DHEA-S), 7alpha-OH-DHEA, 7beta-OH-DHEA, 7-oxo-DHEA, androstenedione (Adione), and androstenediol (Adiol), in the production of genomic effects remains controversial, in part because the metabolism of DHEA varies in different cells and tissues. In the current study, the ability of DHEA and its metabolites to promote AR intracellular trafficking and regulate AR-mediated reporter gene expression, which are characteristic effects of androgens, was determined. Intracellular trafficking of AR-GFP protein was assessed in COS-7 cells while AR transcriptional activity was tested in CV-1 cells transiently co-transfected with AR expression plasmid and an MMTV-ARE-CAT reporter. The results demonstrated that DHEA, the 3beta-HSD metabolite Adione, and the 17beta-HSD metabolite Adiol, were androgenic. Each promoted AR-GFP intracellular trafficking, the formation of nuclear clusters, and AR-dependent transcriptional activity in a dose-dependent manner. In contrast, DHEA-S, 7alpha-OH-DHEA, 7beta-OH-DHEA, and 7-oxo-DHEA were ineffective and exhibited minimal androgenic activity, even at relatively high concentrations (10(-6) M). These results provide the first systematic comparison of the (i) androgenic activity of DHEA and its sulfated and hydroxylated metabolites, (ii) relative androgenicity of DHEA itself vs. the established androgens Adione and Adiol, and (iii) ability of DHEA and its major metabolites to promote AR-GFP intracellular trafficking. In addition to partitioning DHEA and its metabolites into compounds with (DHEA, Adione, Adiol) and without (DHEA-S, 7alpha-OH-DHEA, 7beta-OH-DHEA, and 7-oxo-DHEA) androgenic activity, the findings improve our understanding of the intracellular processes mediating the genomic effects of DHEA through AR.
    PMID: 16524719 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
  25. Registered User
    Grunt76's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"  272 lbs.
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Montreal, Canada
    Age
    46
    Posts
    3,132
    Rep Power
    1783

    Boing!

    I like that study Bioman!
  26. Registered User
    Cordeen's Avatar
    Stats
    5'11"  182 lbs.
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    2,261
    Rep Power
    362734

    So Dr. John, unless I've missed it...when would be the best time to take an AI while on DHEA?...I have 6oxo and it's recommended to be taken with the last meal of the day but I will be taking my DHEA morning and noon.
  27. Registered User
    DR.D's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  228 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    6,779
    Rep Power
    307851

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. John
    ... It means DHEA has SOME androgenic activity, as do several of its metabolites. Notice no comparison is made between the androgenicity of DHEA and, for instance, DHT.
    I'm telling you guys, DHEA is a stronger androgen qualitatively that DHT in some tissues (skin for instance). I've been doing this too long to ignore the truth, whether it adds up on paper or not.
  28. Running with the Big Boys
    hardasnails1973's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    2,039
    Rep Power
    1159

    Prgmmer i ran out of isocort and its been about 4 days despite being on testosterone libido was high and then it totally crashed. Could just 4 days off isocort have this effect and If I get an ACth stimulation test would being on isocort alter those results. Would i have to stop isocort for few days to get accurrate results? Plus my weight dropped about 6 lbs in 4 days all over varaible the same coudl lack of cortisol result in that so qucikly ?

    Thanks
  29. Registered User
    pmgamer18's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    1,532
    Rep Power
    1090

    There can be to reasions for doing ACTH test one is to see if your Adrenals work or if you pituitary is the problem. This test you need to be off Isocort of Cortisol 2 weeks. The other reasion is to see if your getting enough HC or Isocort to help your Adrenals If one is on 20mgs of Cortisol and there ACTH is high not the stim. test then your not taking enough a lot of us the med is killed in the Stomach. So one needs to do both Cortisol morning blood test and ACTH. If your on Cortisol you need to come off it slow to give your Adrenals time to come back if they can. If your trying to stop and feeling sick you comming off it to fast or you can't. If you run out of Isocort get some HC cream 1 tsp 3 times a day on your skin with keep you from crashing.
    Now I got this off the net for what this is worth.
    And I am not a Dr. so take it from there.
    Phil
    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973
    Prgmmer i ran out of isocort and its been about 4 days despite being on testosterone libido was high and then it totally crashed. Could just 4 days off isocort have this effect and If I get an ACth stimulation test would being on isocort alter those results. Would i have to stop isocort for few days to get accurrate results? Plus my weight dropped about 6 lbs in 4 days all over varaible the same coudl lack of cortisol result in that so qucikly ?

    Thanks
  30. Running with the Big Boys
    hardasnails1973's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    2,039
    Rep Power
    1159

    Well like you said I probably crashed rally hard. My joints are so sore I am like WTF.. So just get some isocort should help me feel better. That easy enough. I just called the health food store and they have a bottle so I am going over to get that. If a person is on testosterone and has adrenal fatigue. Having low cortisol levels with out the HC and high test is going to make you feel worse because they are antagonist right? just start back on normal dosage wher ei left off wheni get isocort ?
  31. Registered User
    cpeil2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    414
    Rep Power
    301

    Quote Originally Posted by pmgamer18
    I am not knocking you for using LEF products but you do know they are about getting to you Buy Buy Buy and Buy again. I feel they have some good info but don't waste my money on there products. I have been down this road and flag for this is when your doing something they sell that does not work and they tell you it's because you need this. Like I said they are about selling there products and at a lot of money. You can find much better deals out there.
    If I was to listen to them and buy all that they told me I would be on everything they sell.
    Phil

    I find that their supplements are of high quality and reasonably priced as long as you are getting them at member prices. It is true, though, that they are more about selling supps than about life extension.
  32. Registered User
    pmgamer18's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    1,532
    Rep Power
    1090

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. John
    LEF interviewed me while in Vegas for a feature article. Sent a lovely, extremely knowledgeable and intelligent redhead to do it.
    So did you give her a Free Check Up.
    Phil
  33. Registered User
    pmgamer18's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    1,532
    Rep Power
    1090

    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973
    Well like you said I probably crashed rally hard. My joints are so sore I am like WTF.. So just get some isocort should help me feel better. That easy enough. I just called the health food store and they have a bottle so I am going over to get that. If a person is on testosterone and has adrenal fatigue. Having low cortisol levels with out the HC and high test is going to make you feel worse because they are antagonist right? just start back on normal dosage wher ei left off wheni get isocort ?
    No go back on it slow but faster then when you first started.
    Phil
  34. Registered User
    kincaiddave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Age
    56
    Posts
    100
    Rep Power
    147

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. John
    LEF interviewed me while in Vegas for a feature article. Sent a lovely, extremely knowledgeable and intelligent redhead to do it.
    Did you get any pictures of the redhead? I mean.....sure would like to hear about the article.
  35. Registered User
    JanSz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    4,631
    Rep Power
    2413

    Quote Originally Posted by cpeil2
    I find that their supplements are of high quality and reasonably priced as long as you are getting them at member prices. It is true, though, that they are more about selling supps than about life extension.
    I am buiying 95% of my supplements from LEF at member prices. Sometimes they have additional sales.
    I try not to hoard my supplements, buy maximum 4 even when 10 have a better price. They often revise formula following their lattest research. Those changes are discussed in their monthly magazine or on the web. Recently they changed some packaging, possibly change of supplier.
    ------------------------------------------------------
    Top 10 Most Important Steps For Achieving Ultimate Health
    Life Extension recommends that all members use this basic Top 10 listing as a guide to developing their own supplement program. Members have the exclusive benefit of speaking with a knowledgeable advisor at anytime via a toll-free phone line (1-800-226-2370) who will help develop a personalized supplement regimen to meet their individual health concerns.
    ---------------------------------------------------------
    If LEF is listening, please improve on advisors.
  36. Registered User
    cpeil2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    414
    Rep Power
    301

    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz
    I am buiying 95% of my supplements from LEF at member prices. Sometimes they have additional sales.
    I try not to hoard my supplements, buy maximum 4 even when 10 have a better price. They often revise formula following their lattest research. Those changes are discussed in their monthly magazine or on the web. Recently they changed some packaging, possibly change of supplier.
    ------------------------------------------------------
    Top 10 Most Important Steps For Achieving Ultimate Health
    Life Extension recommends that all members use this basic Top 10 listing as a guide to developing their own supplement program. Members have the exclusive benefit of speaking with a knowledgeable advisor at anytime via a toll-free phone line (1-800-226-2370) who will help develop a personalized supplement regimen to meet their individual health concerns.
    ---------------------------------------------------------
    If LEF is listening, please improve on advisors.

    They seem to have been hit with a run of high employee turnover. It used to be when I ordered over the phone that I talked with the same people from one transaction to the next, and they were pretty knowledgable--they knew the products and lab tests

    Recently, the phone people are always different, and they tend to be poorly trained. When you order lab tests, there is a very high probability that they will get the order incorrect.
  37. Registered User
    pmgamer18's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    1,532
    Rep Power
    1090

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. John
    No. But that night, at Tao, the nightclub at the Venetian, (I was a guest of CBS Studios) this beautiful woman with long red hair, in a middie top, mini skirt and knee high boots came up to me and gave me a nice hug. She told me it was "nice to meet you today". I'm thinking, well, very nice to meet you too(!) but who the heck are you? She says "It's me, *********." Wow. What a change from the reporter who looked like a Librarian that afternoon!
    Now that will kick up one's libido.
    Phil
  38. Registered User
    wildfox's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    330
    Rep Power
    263

    Quote Originally Posted by pmgamer18
    Now that will kick up one's libido.
    Phil
    If it doesn't, then that probably confirms a diagnosis of hypogonadal!
  39. Registered User
    JanSz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    4,631
    Rep Power
    2413

    Quote Originally Posted by cpeil2
    They seem to have been hit with a run of high employee turnover. It used to be when I ordered over the phone that I talked with the same people from one transaction to the next, and they were pretty knowledgable--they knew the products and lab tests

    Recently, the phone people are always different, and they tend to be poorly trained. When you order lab tests, there is a very high probability that they will get the order incorrect.
    The phone operators are probably minimum wage people, there is a shortage of people who are actually willing to work so turnover may be higher now.

    I always order supplements online, never had any problems.
    Never ordered tests.

    My experience was not as good when communicating with advisors. But then, I possibly ask too many questions.
    The advice I got was good. I ended communicating by e-mail, eventually got good communication and advice.
    I must say that he was not able to read pictures of scanned tests or excel tables I was trying to send him. Ended mailing it by snail mail.
    Few months latter I checked, he was still there but when I send him new tests he stop responding.
  40. Registered User
    Cordeen's Avatar
    Stats
    5'11"  182 lbs.
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    2,261
    Rep Power
    362734

    Quote Originally Posted by DR.D
    Oh yes, always with an AI concurrently! I'm not as concerned that it contributes significantly to estrogen biosynthesis as I am about it's ability to amplify the effects of pre-existing estrogen though a metabolite called 5-AD, so attenuating estrogen is the safest plan and appropriate at the time we are discussing anyway.

    EDITED BY DR CRISLER: CYCLE INFO REQUEST.

    DR D IS DISCUSSING PATHWAYS, WHICH WE NEED TO HEAR ABOUT, NOT HOW TO DO STEROIDS.
    Last edited by Dr. John; 01-18-2007 at 06:43 AM.
  •   

      
     

Similar Forum Threads

  1. Replies: 9
    Last Post: 08-21-2008, 02:22 PM
  2. Does Propecia have any effects on Adrenals/Cortisol & DHEA levels?
    By superone in forum Male Anti-Aging Medicine
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 03-23-2008, 12:47 AM
  3. Does lowering Estrogen have any effect on Cortisol levels?
    By superone in forum Male Anti-Aging Medicine
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 03-22-2008, 03:02 PM
  4. Does Minoxidil have any affect on androgen levels?
    By Jeff Rippe in forum Cycle Info
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 06-27-2003, 03:11 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Log in

Log in