injections or gel
- 09-30-2006, 09:47 AM
injections or gel
I don't understand why when you read the stickies they say to use pellets or a gel but not injections for trt. I have been on the gel for almost 3 years and my testosterone levels are lower on the gel then they were before I went on. I am on the 5 gram packet of androgel. I was wanting to switch over to 100mg's a week of test enanthate. I have been reading that will keep your test levels around 1,000ngl. I am only 22 and need something done. I was just wondering why everyone seems to say do not use injections? Thanks guys
- 09-30-2006, 10:23 AM
Originally Posted by Get Big or Die
When you go on gels enough can get into the blood to stop the brain from sending LH and FSH to the Testis to make more T. So if your base line level was say 300 and your skin will not let enough gel into the blood but enough for your brain to see it and stop sending messages to the Testis you can go lower then base line. This is why in the insert that comes with Androgel it says to be tested in the first 2 weeks after starting on the gel. You may need to go up to 10grams and the test in 4 weeks if your not into the upper 1/3 of your labs range then you need to do shots.
09-30-2006, 11:11 AM
Not to be a d*ck phil but there are some VERY knowledgeable endocrinologists out there. They specialize in hormones..I do believe they have a fair amount of knowledge in this subject..Originally Posted by pmgamer18
Although a doctor like Dr. John who specializes in HRT would be ideal not all of us live near such doctors..Our choices are GP's or endos... I for one will take an endo anyday over a GP..
But to each their own..
09-30-2006, 11:30 AM
I only say this from experience I have seen 7 of them in the last 22 yrs that I have been on TRT and not one was anygood. I was taken off my T meds for 2 - 9 weeks at a time by each one. I was told I am Primary and I am not all the blood work was screaming Secondary a Pituitary Problem. There are story after stroy on the boards about men not getting the proper treatment by Endo's. Yes some are good but they are far and few between.Originally Posted by Ripw4
Hell they are not even good for Thyroid my wife has been sick with Thyroid problems going from one Endo to the other. They look at her test see she in in range and tell her she most be depressed or to lose weight. I am just trying to give men a heads up on this. The last Endo I was sent to I called and asked all kinds of questions got all the best answers. Went to see the Dr. was told to stop all my meds for a base line test and this was a red flag I was told to bring my tests in he never looked at them. So I asked him how many men do your treat for this and he told me I am his first.
09-30-2006, 12:41 PM
Some may not want to do injections for a variety of reasons. They may fear needles, may have a family and want to keep needles away from them, or they may have some sexy GF and would rather have her rub the gel on the poke them in the glute
I've done transdermals and injections and I'll stick to injections and only use dermals at the beginning of a cycle (if at all). IM injections are easy to administer, they're not painful, and they're not a hassle like dermals.
09-30-2006, 02:14 PM
In most cases if gels work they are a better means because there is a steady state administration and levels are therefore steady. They tends to be less estrogen elevation when administering this way. But there is the inconvenience of daily application.
Injections produce a fluctuation in levels with peak and lower levels ranging between injections. There is also the potential to elevate estrogen caused by peak levels right after injections. This fluctuation and or elevation of estrogen may require the use of an AI.
There is also the issue of sterility, needle phobia, injection sites, absess' and soreness with injections.
09-30-2006, 02:19 PM
If you look at the recipe for Androgel, it actually is an inferior TD. You are better off making your own or kicking it up a notch BAM!!
10-03-2006, 12:23 AM
I see an urologist for this and no he does not want to do anything about it. When I first had my testosterone run it was about 350ng and now being on the gel it is 226ng. I am just fed up with it and I am not scared of needles and I have done steroids while on the gel.
10-03-2006, 12:44 AM
The thing about TRT is that too little actually worsens the condition. You have your own endogenous test levels which are low to being with. Then you introduce exogenous testosterone which inhibits your own production. Once you are inhibited, depending upon the dose, the net result is lower test than what you started with.
5 grams a day is a net of 5mg a day or 35mg a week. 10g a day would net you 70mg a week. 100mg of Test-E per week is a net of approx 70mg after you account for the ester weight.
Your doctor needs to increase your dose incrementally to 7.5g/d and 10g/d until results are what you are looking for. But it seems that your doctor is either ignorant or obstinant. Gel or inject, your still need to have someone who knows what they are doing prescribe it to you if you desire to remain legit.
10-03-2006, 09:16 AM
A urogolist specializes in the "plumbing" not the hormones. See an endocrinologist, or better yet, go see Dr. Crisler. It's worth it.Originally Posted by Get Big or Die
10-03-2006, 11:33 AM
All you need to do is read the insert that comes with the androgel in it it states to retest in 2 weeks to be sure your levels are high enough. If you don't have this go to Androgel.com and read it. Then show this to your Dr. and tell him to up the dose if he will not do this ask why like is my blood to thick my levels are lower then my base line if he still will not do anything find a new Dr. Read the sticky Finding a new Dr. and start making calls.Originally Posted by Get Big or Die
03-27-2012, 03:04 PM
When I first went in for my blood test after a few weeks on Testim, it showed my test level being a little over 1400!! My test level after being on 100mg twice a week of test-e injections yielded a test level of 896, with free test at 251. What would happen if I were to give myself a 200mg test-e shot?
I wish I could feel like I did on Testim.. :-\
03-27-2012, 03:28 PM
First if you put on the testim and went and did labs with in 6 hrs your levels are not true you spiked up your levels by putting on the gel first then doing labs. It is not possable to get levels 1400 on the most Testis you can put on. The way you need to do labs is to get up shower off all the old gel go do your labs come home and put on the gel. This is the best way to get a true level.
If you can't do this shower put on the gel keeping it off the arm you going get the blood test from and do labs test after 6 hrs.
Why your feeling this way on shots and you have dam good levels on them is your Estradiol must be to high you need to test this most men on TRT are going to end up with high levels of Estraidol and this undoes any good the Testosterone dose. And when high above 30 pg/ml it will kill your sex life and make you feel Panic feelings here is a copy of a post to John from one of the Co Mods at my forum about how one feels with high Estraidol levels.
============================== ============================== ==================
I just wanted to add that your swollen ankles can be caused by high
Estradiol (E2) levels.
When my E2 was very high, my legs and feet were swollen so much that I
couldn't even wear shoes. Once I got my E2 down to normal levels, all
of the swelling went away completely and has not returned.
When you add testosterone to your body, it can convert into estrogen via
a chemical called "aromatase". Your liver produces aromatase, your fat
cells contain aromatase, etc. There are different parts of estrogen,
but the only part that men really care about is "estradiol" (E2).
Like Phil said, when E2 goes up, it "makes you feel like crap and kills
your sex life". As E2 levels go up, SHBG (Sex Hormone Binding Globulin)
levels tend to go up, too. SHBG attaches itself to testosterone and
basically makes the testosterone useless. In other words, you can have
"good" levels of testosterone, but if your SHBG is too high, you still
feel like you have low testosterone.
Here is a list of some of the symptoms of high E2 (you don't have to
experience all of the symptoms to know that you have high E2):
* Trouble reaching an orgasm
* No erections while sleeping (i.e. "night wood" or "morning wood")
* Panic Attacks
* Prostate problems
* Water Retention
* Increased Blood Pressure
* Decreased Libido
* When penis is limp, it doesn't hang low (it seems to try to crawl back up)
* Asthma like issues (due to increased water retention around the lungs)
* Trouble sleeping at night - waking up multiple times per night
* Lack of Libido
* Crying while watching TV shows/movies
* Easier to get angry (think PMS)
* Insulin Resistance (getting tired after eating a meal - if left
untreated, it can lead to Type II Diabetes)
* Larger stomach
* Redness on the face and/or chest
* Feeling hotter than everybody else
* Thinner skin/bleeding easier
Hypogonadism2 Co-Moderator - not a medical professional.
03-27-2012, 04:41 PM
I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
03-27-2012, 09:01 PM
03-27-2012, 09:51 PM
03-27-2012, 10:55 PM
03-28-2012, 12:04 AM
03-28-2012, 03:34 PM
I am sorry to have to say this but your problem is your seeing an Endo they are not anygood for male hormones I seen 7 in my life and not one was any good. And I read about men seeing them all over the web and wish they never see them.
If you can't get Arimidex from your Endo with levels like this what does that tell you. It tells you find a better Dr. WTF man is he thinking E2 levels like this make me very dam sick and if they are on TRT they end up with high levels of SHBG and this binds up the Testosterone in there body so it's not working so your labs look good but you feel like crap.
03-28-2012, 04:19 PM
03-28-2012, 05:53 PM
I wish I could get prescribed test-cyp and gel at the same time. I like injections because there's no transference and the frequency of dosing is less than gels (and it's guaranteed absorption). But I like the DHT increase from gels, which I don't get from injections. Most of my test from injection and then a little bit of gel on the nads once in a while for DHT would be perfect for me. If I could get injectable DHT with my test, even better.
03-28-2012, 06:00 PM
03-28-2012, 10:12 PM
03-29-2012, 10:33 AM
Try a Wellness Practitioner . Iím starting one now; his literature told me that he knows what heís doing . Iíll be doing bio-identical test, hcg, and an AI (maybe amridex, I donít remember). Iím already doing or taking most of what he recommends. So far weíre impressed with each other. I told him heís the only one who knows more about this than I most of which I got here.
03-29-2012, 11:21 AM
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