HGH & Torn Tendon

[firefighter2032]

I've been battling a torn tendon in my right elbowfor over 2 years now (medial epicondylitis). I have been doing prolotherapy for about a year now and it's much much better but I can't seem to get over that last hurdle and have it feel completely healed.

I've been doing some reading on HGH and I read that the pro bodybuilders take it to keep their tendons strong. Would HGH be something that would help? I spoke to my doctor and was told that HGH wasn't site specific enough to help me. The same doctor also made some off color results when I asked about T Cream.

If HGH would be a good idea what's the typical dosage?

I live about 45 minutes from Dr. John's office and when I get some finances in order I'm going to go and see him.

And for one last question, since my primary physician is not into the idea of HRT I would I'm guessing have to pay for my blood tests myself. How do I find a lab to test my hormone levels?

Thanks

 

[bbuck]

Here is a start for the lab tests, or ask Dr. john.

PreventiveLabs
PreventiveLabs
Blood tests. Discounted blood tests. Blood tests for health.
Direct Lab Services, Simple blood test could save your life
Life Extension Foundation: Popular Multi-Nutrient Formulas

 

[JanSz]

How do I find a lab to test my hormone levels?

Thanks

lef.org/bloodtest

 

[Werewolf]

I've been battling a torn tendon in my right elbowfor over 2 years now (medial epicondylitis). I have been doing prolotherapy for about a year now and it's much much better but I can't seem to get over that last hurdle and have it feel completely healed.

I've been doing some reading on HGH and I read that the pro bodybuilders take it to keep their tendons strong. Would HGH be something that would help? I spoke to my doctor and was told that HGH wasn't site specific enough to help me. The same doctor also made some off color results when I asked about T Cream.

If HGH would be a good idea what's the typical dosage?

I live about 45 minutes from Dr. John's office and when I get some finances in order I'm going to go and see him.

And for one last question, since my primary physician is not into the idea of HRT I would I'm guessing have to pay for my blood tests myself. How do I find a lab to test my hormone levels?

Thanks

IGF-1R3 is 300% faster than normal for repairing tendons. Cissus is 45% faster. HGH will also help, but mostly through IGF-1 production.

I have used Oratrophin to repair both my knees at seperate times. I currently recommend PGH-T (for HGH), Oratrophin, and cissus. For ligaments, only HGH will help. Good luck

 

[firefighter2032]

Thanks Werewolf...just one more question. I know where I can buy Cissus. But the other two I did a google search on and came up with nothing for Oratrophin and the PGH-t I found at universalkits.com but I have to ask, are they legal in the States? I work as a firefighter and I can't afford any legal troubles.

Thanks

 

[Werewolf]

Thanks Werewolf...just one more question. I know where I can buy Cissus. But the other two I did a google search on and came up with nothing for Oratrophin and the PGH-t I found at universalkits.com but I have to ask, are they legal in the States? I work as a firefighter and as a Deputy Sheriff and can't afford any legal troubles.

Thanks

Both are legal. PGH-T is coming to GNC near you around January. IBE sells Oratrophin-1 which is a board sponsor. I don't know why you had trouble finding it. It is absorbed through inside of your cheek. You probably want to stay away from injectable forms of IGF-1R3, because they in a gray area. Oratrophin-1 is also time release so less chance of going into low blood sugar with it. I was doing half doses every 4th day for my last use. The other thing is necessary for healing a tendon is can not be under stretch when you sleep. It needs to be relaxed to heal. It may take pillows etc to do that.


http://anabolicminds.com/forum/ibe-nutrition/50155-how-tropins-really.html

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/igf-1-gh/48232-post-surgery-igf.html

 

[firefighter2032]

Thanks Werewolf...very appreciated.

 

[Werewolf]

I can not answer your question. Use search. I recommend you remove your question.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/ibe-nutrition/46280-new-rules-read.html

 

[firefighter2032]

thanks for the advise Werewolf...I looked on IBE and found the Oratrophin-1. Is the stuff that good? Quite a price tag, but at this point I'm willing to try just about anything.

ON the PGH-T...would I apply it to the affected area that I have the injury or would I apply it like the rest of the transdermals?

And wow can I be an idiot...advertisement for IGF-1R3 was right below the post.

 

[Werewolf]

thanks for the advise Werewolf...I looked on IBE and found the Oratrophin-1. Is the stuff that good? Quite a price tag, but at this point I'm willing to try just about anything.

ON the PGH-T...would I apply it to the affected area that I have the injury or would I apply it like the rest of the transdermals?

And wow can I be an idiot...advertisement for IGF-1R3 was right below the post.

PGH-T is applied like other trandermals, basically where you don't have a lot of hair. Yes Oratrophin is expensive, but you should get anyway.

 

[firefighter2032]

Thank you

When you say less chance of low blood sugar...what exactly does that mean?

I have hypoglycemia and I hate the shakes...will Oratropin cause those same symptoms?

 

[Werewolf]

Thank you

When you say less chance of low blood sugar...what exactly does that mean?

I have hypoglycemia and I hate the shakes...will Oratropin cause those same symptoms?

Definitely stay away from injectable IGF-1R3 which can really drive your blood sugar low. Oratrophin is also going to lower your blood sugar, but being time release the effect is not as drastic. You absolutely need to be prepared to deal with low blood sugar. Maybe you want to try just the PGH-T and Cissus to see if that works first. You are going to get some IGF-1 boost from the PGH-T. Since PGH-T elevates GH (HGH) you will get a IGFBP-3 boost from it that the good Doctor is talking about.

 

[Werewolf]

Let me try to give you more information. I also have low blood sugar issues. It would normally take about 8 to 10 hours without eating to get to the shakes. I eat an hour before taking Oratrophin in the morning. I take only 40 mcg (half dose) every 4th day. At 50 minutes after taking Oratrophin my stomach starts growling for food. My stomach basically never growls at me unless it has been 5 hours or 6 hours since I have eaten. At 1 hour after taking Oratrophin I always eat.

The only time I have scared myself with low blood sugar when I moved from 10 mgs of superdrol to 20 mg while also taking Oratrophin on 40 mcg everyday. Because of the long life of these supplements I ended up waking myself up every 2 hours through the night to eat. I will never do this combo again.

You probably want to learn more about R-ALA. It really seems to buffer blood sugar by transporting sugar in and out of muscles. Also Casein protein.

 

[Werewolf]

Only GH elevates IGFBP-3, which protects you from the cancer promoting activity of IGF-1.

Some of the guys using that stuff are going to be really sorry they did one of these days.

You made me curious (a good thing) so I did a little reading:

"In this prospective study of men in Shanghai, higher serum IGF-I levels were not associated with an increased risk of lung cancer. However, subjects with higher levels of IGFBP-3 were at reduced risk of lung cancer."

Cancer Spectrum: London et al., pp. 749-754.

"we found that IGF-I was positively and IGFBP-3 was inversely associated with risk of colorectal cancer"

Cancer Spectrum: Ma et al., pp. 620-625.

 

[firefighter2032]

Thanks Werewolf....I think I'll start out with the PGH-T and the Cissus and work from there.

As far as the rest of the conversation between you and the Doc....I was lost...but that's okay, glad to see I had a question that could start a discussion, even if I don't understand.

Again, thanks for taking the time, it's very appreciated

 

[Werewolf]

I was kind of lost, too. I have no idea how these substances are used. As far as I know, they aren't FDA-approved, so I couldn't use them anyway.

Perhaps someone could explain them further?

PGH-T is an advanced transdermal GABA based Human Growth Hormone booster supplement. People have guess it about equal to maybe 1 to 2 ui of HGH. Works well for 35 to 50 age group with just a little reduction in HGH output.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/universalkits/50914-pght-www-universalkits.html

Cissus Rx comes from India and has proved to be very good for joints. Most of the older body builders seem to be using it. Very popular. Just the Cissus is likely enough to repair his long lasting Tendon injury. It has a long history of use in India. It also will also heals bones about 45% faster, which is probably enough to spark your interest. It a supplement sold from USPlabs. You probably do want to learn more about this one. I don't think you currently have anything equivalent in your arsenal.

 

[DSA1]

Only GH elevates IGFBP-3, which protects you from the cancer promoting activity of IGF-1.

Some of the guys using that stuff are going to be really sorry they did one of these days.

Dr John, which of the various "stuff" he was mentioning (there were three products) were you referring to? Or is it all three?

Thanks.

 

[firefighter2032]

I went ahead and ordered the PGH-T and the Oratropin. The Oratropin was on sale for $160.00 so I thought I'd give it a try. I tried to find some Cissus but everyone seems to be out of stock on it. Synergy is suppose to be coming out with a updated version, but I have no idea when. Hopefully the other two will be of some great benefit. If not anything from what I've read the PGH-T does wonders for sleep and being a third shifter, sleep is always a great thing.

 

[firefighter2032]

I received my Oratrophin-1 yesterday and took a half dose. I didn't have any real side affects that I had rad about. I had a bit of a dry mouth but nothing to really speak about. My PGH-T will be coming in the mail beginning of next week. I will keep everyone updated and let them know my opionion.

Thanks again for everyone's help, especially Werewolf. And thanks for giving me hope, which was really starting to faulter.

 

[Werewolf]

Good luck, it worked wonders for me. A small warning, it can hurt worse while healing. Don't let that worry you. I assume you have read that the oratrophin is asorded through the inside of the cheek. I lay on my side and let it absorb.Then roll across my face and let it absorb through other inside of cheek. No food for hour before and hour after (especially sodas after).

 

[firefighter2032]

Never thought about simply laying down and doing it. I stood and swished it back and forth, but I like your way better.

Not that the stuff is that bad tasting, but it definately isn't that great either.

 

[Werewolf]

Remember to wash your hands before applying the PGH-T. Stay away from fancy soaps with lavender or tea tree oil. You will be making the equivalent of a birthcontrol patch with plant estrogens.

 

[firefighter2032]

There's a thought that I never considered.
I think my wife provides more than enough estrogen around my household.

Thanks for the advise.

 

[Werewolf]

There's a thought that I never considered.
I think my wife provides more than enough estrogen around my household.

Thanks for the advise.

There is more truth to that statement than you probably realize. Both estrogen and testosterone are sweated out and both can be absorbed through skin inefficiently. We actually transfer more testosterone to them than estrogen to us. I used have girlfriend who would run out to me during track practise when I first started sweating and then rub the sweat all over herself. I thought it was really gross at the time, but she was so hot and ready to go an hour later I wasn't about to complain. Something her mother of all people taught her. Women get a huge spike of 5 hormones including testosterone about 40 minutes after unprotected sex via the semen. This is why they want sex again about 40 minutes later.

PS: I take half dose (40mcg) Oratropin every 4th day. This is the current thinking of what is best.

 

[firefighter2032]

Wow...just wish I could get my wife to be in the mood for round 1 .

I've taken two half doses of the Oratropin-1 and I've used the PGH-t twice now. I have to say, my arm is feeling pretty good. Whether this is because of the supplements or because it's healing from my last prolotherapy shot I cannot be for sure. But at this point, I'm willing to not ask questions and just go with what feels good.

The metallic taste from the PGH-t is no joke, it's a strange sensation, not overbearable, just strange. That and the desire I had to go and gnaw on the re-bar. I'll keep everyone posted. I can say I honestly have dreams of being able to hit the weights and workout like normal people.

Werewolf, thanks again for all your advise.

 

[Werewolf]

Wow...just wish I could get my wife to be in the mood for round 1 .

I've taken two half doses of the Oratropin-1 and I've used the PGH-t twice now. I have to say, my arm is feeling pretty good. Whether this is because of the supplements or because it's healing from my last prolotherapy shot I cannot be for sure. But at this point, I'm willing to not ask questions and just go with what feels good.

The metallic taste from the PGH-t is no joke, it's a strange sensation, not overbearable, just strange. That and the desire I had to go and gnaw on the re-bar. I'll keep everyone posted. I can say I honestly have dreams of being able to hit the weights and workout like normal people.

Werewolf, thanks again for all your advise.

Metallic taste? You are rubbing it into your skin and not eating I hope.

As for round one, have her watch what the PGH-t does for your skin especially around the eyes for next two weeks and then get her use it too. PGH-T is fine for women, but keep it from transferring to children. They probably have so much HGH in them that it may not matter, but better to be safe.
Lose weight, younger skin and more energy; better not tell her too soon or she might steal it from you.

 

[Mulletsoldier]

I went ahead and ordered the PGH-T and the Oratropin. The Oratropin was on sale for $160.00 so I thought I'd give it a try. I tried to find some Cissus but everyone seems to be out of stock on it. Synergy is suppose to be coming out with a updated version, but I have no idea when. Hopefully the other two will be of some great benefit. If not anything from what I've read the PGH-T does wonders for sleep and being a third shifter, sleep is always a great thing.

We are going through a transitional period right now, basically revamping our product line. Regular Cissus is being replaced by a new version which is 10% keto-sterones as opposed to 5%. We are currently offering 1kilo of 5% for $85, which works out to around 65% off.

If there is anything about the specific action of Cissus you would like to know, I would be more than happy to oblige to the best of my ability.

 

[firefighter2032]

Thanks...2 quick questions...

When is the new Cissus going to be available?

And how are people taking the bulk Cissus? I've opened a capsule of the stuff before and I have to say it doesn't smell as if it would have the greatest taste to it.


Thanks

 

[Mulletsoldier]

Thanks...2 quick questions...

When is the new Cissus going to be available?

And how are people taking the bulk Cissus? I've opened a capsule of the stuff before and I have to say it doesn't smell as if it would have the greatest taste to it.


Thanks

New Cissus should be available within a month, more than likely 2-3 weeks.

Various ways, cannot say there is one that is going to completely drown the overwhelming taste. Cissus is an amazing product, but it does not taste like candy

 

[JanSz]

We are going through a transitional period right now, basically revamping our product line. Regular Cissus is being replaced by a new version which is 10% keto-sterones as opposed to 5%. We are currently offering 1kilo of 5% for $85, which works out to around 65% off.

If there is anything about the specific action of Cissus you would like to know, I would be more than happy to oblige to the best of my ability.

I am 66yo, 10 packets of Androgel/day
Since I was 19yo I had often back problems.
I have been able to diagnose that couple of months ago as a problem with a discs on both sides of L3 vertebrae. The discs are not ruptured, but compressed/dehydrated.
I am using services of my chiropractor but could use more lasting help.

I got two bottles of Cissus RX, take 2x2 tablets daily for the last week and half. So far do not see any difference.
Should I?

 

[Mulletsoldier]

I am 66yo, 10 packets of Androgel/day
Since I was 19yo I had often back problems.
I have been able to diagnose that couple of months ago as a problem with a discs on both sides of L3 vertebrae. The discs are not ruptured, but compressed/dehydrated.
I am using services of my chiropractor but could use more lasting help.

I got two bottles of Cissus RX, take 2x2 tablets daily for the last week and half. So far do not see any difference.
Should I?

I would actually bump your dose upto 3 caps 4x daily as your problem is a long existing one. Give it two weeks at 12 caps ED and if you do not see an improvement bump the dosages. Some users see immediate analgesic and reparative effects with Cissus, while other may need to dose longer. Seeing as you have had this problem for 45 years, you probably fall under the latter group. Let me know how it works out for you.

 

[JanSz]

I would actually bump your dose upto 3 caps 4x daily as your problem is a long existing one. Give it two weeks at 12 caps ED and if you do not see an improvement bump the dosages. Some users see immediate analgesic and reparative effects with Cissus, while other may need to dose longer. Seeing as you have had this problem for 45 years, you probably fall under the latter group. Let me know how it works out for you.

Thank you.
At home I have only 12 days supply for 12 caps ED dose.

My Cissus is this one:
Bodybuilding.com - USPlabs Cissus RX - Muscle Growth! On sale now!

Is it correct one or there is another product?

New Cissus should be available within a month, more than likely 2-3 weeks.

Various ways, cannot say there is one that is going to completely drown the overwhelming taste. Cissus is an amazing product, but it does not taste like candy

Should I wait for this new product?
Please post link to the seller of this new product>

 

[Mulletsoldier]

Thank you.
At home I have only 12 days supply for 12 caps ED dose.

My Cissus is this one:
Bodybuilding.com - USPlabs Cissus RX - Muscle Growth! On sale now!

Is it correct one or there is another product?



Should I wait for this new product?
Please post link to the seller of this new product>

It is the same product, just more concentrated. All of our online retailers will carry it.

 

[firefighter2032]

Not to sound like a complete pu@@y or anything, but I think I'll wait for the new product. I don't mind taking a capsule, but bulk just doesn't do it for me.

Thanks for the info Mullet and good luck with your back JanSz.

 

[Mulletsoldier]

Not to sound like a complete pu@@y or anything, but I think I'll wait for the new product. I don't mind taking a capsule, but bulk just doesn't do it for me.

Thanks for the info Mullet and good luck with your back JanSz.

You can still buy capsulated Cissus bro, just right now the 1kilo is an incredible deal for bulk. For a way to take that just use Iced Tea Crystal Light, that stuff will cover up anything..lol

 

[Werewolf]

I am 66yo, 10 packets of Androgel/day
Since I was 19yo I had often back problems.
I have been able to diagnose that couple of months ago as a problem with a discs on both sides of L3 vertebrae. The discs are not ruptured, but compressed/dehydrated.
I am using services of my chiropractor but could use more lasting help.

I got two bottles of Cissus RX, take 2x2 tablets daily for the last week and half. So far do not see any difference.
Should I?

I think the cissus will really help, but if not you should read Storming Norman's comments from this thread.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/igf-1-gh/50079-spinal-joint-arthritis.html

 

[firefighter2032]

Not much of an Ice Tea fan.

But to wait a month for a superior product is not too much to ask for.

Thanks for the info

 

[JanSz]

I think the cissus will really help, but if not you should read Storming Norman's comments from this thread.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/igf-1-gh/50079-spinal-joint-arthritis.html

Thank you Werewolf.
After reading S. Norman's my take home message is
Cissus, Celadrin, Celebrex, core strenghthening and aerobics. What did I miss?

I just orded Celadrin from NowFoods
Bodybuilding.com - NOW Celadrin - Advanced Joint Support! On sale now!
I already use Cissus.
Instead of Celebrex I use Zyflamend (herbal/natural)
3xweek chiropractic adjustments
1hr/week core training supervised by my chiropractor who have a gym and is a coaching local futball team.
Few hours weekly of ballroom dancing for balance and another few of Salsa, Hustle and WCS for aerobics and exposure to younger generation, (I am 66yo).

Overall I think my weakest is core strenght.
-------------
I also use MSN, chondroitin, glucosamine, hylauronic acid and SAMe, some others as suggested by LEF.

 

[Werewolf]

Thank you Werewolf.
After reading S. Norman's my take home message is
Cissus, Celadrin, Celebrex, core strenghthening and aerobics. What did I miss?

Disks can be healed with IGF-1R3 such as Oratrophin.

 

[Mulletsoldier]

Thanks, werewolf. But if it's not legal over here, no matter how good it may be, I cannot add it to my "arsenal" (I LIKE that word!).

That sucks Doctor, it is one of the few supplements out there that has legitimate human research behind it, in the application we are using it in. Not saying this b/c I am a rep either, I would have been alot more vocal as a regular member..lol

Where do you live if I may ask? I am wondering because I am located in Canada and I am unsure if Customs Canada has Cissus regulated or not.

 

[Werewolf]

Thanks, werewolf. But if it's not legal over here, no matter how good it may be, I cannot add it to my "arsenal" (I LIKE that word!).

Cissus is fully legal. It is supplement. It would be in the same category as glucosamine/chondroitin and Celadrin. I don’t understand your comment.

 

[Mulletsoldier]

Cissus is fully legal. It is supplement. It would be in the same category as glucosamine/chondroitin and Celadrin. I don’t understand your comment.

It is not neccessarily fully legal in Canada. As I understand the contemporary discussion as it pertains to Canadian Customs, Cissus is illegal for distribution but not neccessarily for import. Which is why I asked him. I know it is not as readily approved as it is in the United States.

Which, is by all means ridiculous. It is one of the most effective and safest supplements on the market.

 

[firefighter2032]

Werewolf,

How long did it take for your knees to repair when you took the supplements?

 

[Werewolf]

Werewolf,

How long did it take for your knees to repair when you took the supplements?

About two weeks I quit noticing any problems, but think they were still getting stronger after that. Start with low weights and work your way up slowly. Remember tendons need to be relaxed to heal.

 

[firefighter2032]

Ok Werewolf, how about this one to pick your brain...

What about Haldrol or 1 AD? Would it be any help with the IGF and helping to repair?

Thanks

 

[Werewolf]

Ok Werewolf, how about this one to pick your brain...

What about Haldrol or 1 AD? Would it be any help with the IGF and helping to repair?

Thanks

Neither of these are going to help repair the tendon. In fact the extra muscle they create will put more strain of the tendon. Extra estrogen is helpful for joint repair. 1-AD is very suppressive and will drastically drop your natural testosterone and estrogen levels. It is usually taken with 4 AD or testosterone.

I never taken Haldrol. It is methyl so you need to all the supplements to protect your liver. It will drop your estrogen a little. I like 10 mg Phera-plex or 7.5 mg of Phera-plex & 2.5mg of Superdrol twice daily. My other favorite is NHA cycle of 2 Rebound Rxt (ADT), one rebound Reloaded and 8 Activate spread through the day. Both of these drop your estrogen.

I think you should rehap for while with out any muscle builders first. First is muscle memory will help you build muscle at about 3 times normal speed. Second is the tendon needs time to keep healing and getting stronger.

 

[firefighter2032]

Thanks Again Werewolf,

Just getting impatient, my arm has been banged up for two years now. I've been doing prolotherapy and it's reduced my symptoms by about 90% but I just can't seem to get over that last hump.

As just about anyone can imagine I get so frustrated and miss hitting the weights. My 14 yo son is now working out and I've been going down and helping him to make sure he's doing everything right. Just kills me to not be able to hit the weights.

Thanks for all your advise...I'll keep doing my rehab and plugging along and hopefully this will all go away someday.

 

[JanSz]

Thanks Again Werewolf,

Just getting impatient, my arm has been banged up for two years now. I've been doing prolotherapy and it's reduced my symptoms by about 90% but I just can't seem to get over that last hump.

As just about anyone can imagine I get so frustrated and miss hitting the weights. My 14 yo son is now working out and I've been going down and helping him to make sure he's doing everything right. Just kills me to not be able to hit the weights.

Thanks for all your advise...I'll keep doing my rehab and plugging along and hopefully this will all go away someday.

Which tendon you have a problem with.
I had a supraspinatus tendon problem. As it turn out it was not due to work overload. I had arthritis in AC joint, that made the AC joint larger and left less space for a tendon, specially in arm over the head position. I tried to save it by lot of physical theraphy, bad advice. Ended with tendon 3/4 cut in, surgery, 3 anchors, 6 months almost no use of arm. I should have had a surgery 9 months earlier, my recovery time would have been much quicker not to mention that I would have saved myself lots of pain. No mather what, do not use steroid injections, unless you are 90yo. Steroid injections cause bad healing and longer recovery time after surgery. People who do lot of overhead work often end up with this type of problems.

 

[Werewolf]

Which tendon you have a problem with.
I had a supraspinatus tendon problem. As it turn out it was not due to work overload. I had arthritis in AC joint, that made the AC joint larger and left less space for a tendon, specially in arm over the head position. I tried to save it by lot of physical theraphy, bad advice. Ended with tendon 3/4 cut in, surgery, 3 anchors, 6 months almost no use of arm. I should have had a surgery 9 months earlier, my recovery time would have been much quicker not to mention that I would have saved myself lots of pain. No mather what, do not use steroid injections, unless you are 90yo. Steroid injections cause bad healing and longer recovery time after surgery. People who do lot of overhead work often end up with this type of problems.

I assume by steriod injections you are refer to cortisone and that can actually make a tendon much weaker and easier to injure. I thought was like 30% weaker.

 

[Werewolf]

Thanks Again Werewolf,

Just getting impatient, my arm has been banged up for two years now. I've been doing prolotherapy and it's reduced my symptoms by about 90% but I just can't seem to get over that last hump.

As just about anyone can imagine I get so frustrated and miss hitting the weights. My 14 yo son is now working out and I've been going down and helping him to make sure he's doing everything right. Just kills me to not be able to hit the weights.

Thanks for all your advise...I'll keep doing my rehab and plugging along and hopefully this will all go away someday.

What is your rehab?

I basically start with light weights, if it doesn't hurt I move the weights up the next workout day. If hurts I move down in weights. If it feels swollen then I will ice it or ice/heat/ice. I tend to stop 1 rep short of exhaustion for rehab. Just 1 set.
I move slow and use good form. Tendons are put under less strain with low weight and high reps. I will work through a small amount of pain.