HCG and Androgel - Dr. John

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  1. HCG and Androgel - Dr. John


    In a regimen of daily SubQ HCG and Daily Androgel, does the HCG provide a stable T level for 24 hours until the next HCG shot, or does it spike T levels after the shot and then cause T levels to decline very quickly thereafter? What has your experience been with this regimen?

  2. HCG Androgel


    How do you feel on the Androgel and HCG. I was on on Gel but no HCG and found gel good am but not so good pm despite taking 5mg am and 2.5-5mg pm. I am trying injections but wondered if using HCG with the gel would have been a good combination. I was on Testogel but found Testim to be better for some reason. I am in UK and our gels may be different
    1 Ainlsie
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  3. For some reason, I seem to recall reading in a thread on one of the message boards that with HCG test levels peak approximately 6-8 hours later. I have no idea how fast the levels would fall after that though.

  4. Quote Originally Posted by smitty4
    For some reason, I seem to recall reading in a thread on one of the message boards that with HCG test levels peak approximately 6-8 hours later. I have no idea how fast the levels would fall after that though.
    I don't know about that I feel my HCG shot in an hour.
    Phil

  5. I wasn't trying to say that your levels would not increase soon after the injection. Rather, I interpreted what I read as saying that your levels would keep increasing until they reached their peak some 6 to 8 hours later. Then, your levels would decline again.
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by smitty4
    I wasn't trying to say that your levels would not increase soon after the injection. Rather, I interpreted what I read as saying that your levels would keep increasing until they reached their peak some 6 to 8 hours later. Then, your levels would decline again.
    OK I feel I feel it so fast is because my cortisol levels are so low and HCG kicks up cortisol some.
    Phil

  7. bump

  8. Quote Originally Posted by pmgamer18
    OK I feel I feel it so fast is because my cortisol levels are so low and HCG kicks up cortisol some.
    Phil

    Interesting. I have been fighting fatigue for 9 months (just after my angiolplasty/stent). At first I was told that my Thyroids might be low (turned out they were borderline high). Then I had my Test checked and it was borderline low. I fought for TRT and had to undergo more tests but finally got on Androderm 3 weeks ago. During all the eother testing I was told that I have low cortisol levels.

    Are you taking a cortisol product along with the HCG (which I am not on...yet)?

  9. Quote Originally Posted by glg
    Interesting. I have been fighting fatigue for 9 months (just after my angiolplasty/stent). At first I was told that my Thyroids might be low (turned out they were borderline high). Then I had my Test checked and it was borderline low. I fought for TRT and had to undergo more tests but finally got on Androderm 3 weeks ago. During all the eother testing I was told that I have low cortisol levels.

    Are you taking a cortisol product along with the HCG (which I am not on...yet)?
    Yes I am I take an OTC supplement called Isocort one pill = 2.5 mgs. of cortisol. I would do much better on HC but my Dr. will not give me a script so the Isocort works and the first little pill I took gave me this feeling of well being big time.
    VitaminMD - Search Results
    read this link if your going to try this.
    Stop The Thyroid Madness How to treat adrenals–for the patient and their doctors
    Can you post your Thyroid Tests the best tests are TSH, Free T 3 and Free T 4.
    Phil

  10. Quote Originally Posted by Dr. John
    I believe that is because there are LH receptors in the more peripheral (emotional) areas of the brain.
    I also had this feeling when I first started on Isocort for my low cortisol levels and when I started on Armour it lasted most of the day. Now I am finding this feeling is a lot less now that my Armour dose if up to 90 mgs. a day. Some one that the Hypopituitary site told me as I treat my low cortiosl levels and Thyroid this feeling will start to go away strange.
    Phil

  11. Quote Originally Posted by Dr. John
    Phil, are you splitting your thyroid dose?
    Yes I am I do 60 mgs. in the morning and 30 mgs at lunch. Tell me is it best to take Armour before eating or after.

  12. Quote Originally Posted by pmgamer18

    Yes I am I do 60 mgs. in the morning and 30 mgs at lunch. Tell me is it best to take Armour before eating or after.
    I have been taking my armour sublingually. Have you tried that?
    This way it doesn't matter if you take it around a meal. Some of the time i finish eating and take one of my doses 10 minutes later.
    The only downside is it take some time to dissolve.

  13. Quote Originally Posted by magic8989
    I have been taking my armour sublingually. Have you tried that?
    This way it doesn't matter if you take it around a meal. Some of the time i finish eating and take one of my doses 10 minutes later.
    The only downside is it take some time to dissolve.
    I am going to try this taking Isocort before eating is upsetting my stomach. The Generic Armour I got last week is giving me Diarrhera. They say take without food so I will try doing this.
    As for the Isocort I read at a site to cue them.
    Phil

  14. Quote Originally Posted by 1cc
    In a regimen of daily SubQ HCG and Daily Androgel, does the HCG provide a stable T level for 24 hours until the next HCG shot, or does it spike T levels after the shot and then cause T levels to decline very quickly thereafter? What has your experience been with this regimen?
    Dr. John, do you have any input on the pharmacokinetics of HCG with regards to the above? Thanks.

  15. Quote Originally Posted by pmgamer18
    I am going to try this taking Isocort before eating is upsetting my stomach. The Generic Armour I got last week is giving me Diarrhera. They say take without food so I will try doing this.
    As for the Isocort I read at a site to cue them.
    Phil
    I noted that Armour Thyroid is out of stock, just when I was planning to buy some.
    Buy Armour (Armor), Titre, Eutirox Thyroid Online

    Where are you buying your Generic version, what is its name, any differences between the real thing an generic?

  16. Quote Originally Posted by pmgamer18

    I am going to try this taking Isocort before eating is upsetting my stomach. The Generic Armour I got last week is giving me Diarrhera. They say take without food so I will try doing this.
    As for the Isocort I read at a site to cue them.
    Phi
    I think you will find you do better taking isocort with food. I noticed that it is less effective if i take it with no food. Thats odd about the armour side effects. Maybe it is because it is generic. Mine is from Forest Pharmacutacles and have never had any problems with it. Well, it sometimes does smell a bit.

  17. Quote Originally Posted by JanSz
    I noted that Armour Thyroid is out of stock, just when I was planning to buy some.
    Buy Armour (Armor), Titre, Eutirox Thyroid Online

    Where are you buying your Generic version, what is its name, any differences between the real thing an generic?
    It is called Westhyroid here is a link to the generic brands that are good.
    Stop The Thyroid Madness Armour vs. Other Brands
    If you go to the Adrenal Forum Val. can help you find them.
    Phil

  18. Quote Originally Posted by pmgamer18
    It is called Westhyroid here is a link to the generic brands that are good.
    Stop The Thyroid Madness Armour vs. Other Brands
    If you go to the Adrenal Forum Val. can help you find them.
    Phil
    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz
    I noted that Armour Thyroid is out of stock, just when I was planning to buy some.
    Buy Armour (Armor), Titre, Eutirox Thyroid Online
    Just realised on the bottom of that page, they are also selling another brand , the picture shows Westhroid, it happen to be in one size only.
    120mg tablet is equivalent to two grains of thyroid.
    In the text they say that it is: Brand name Nature or Westhroid.

    Is this what are you taking, Phil?
    With one (larger) pill it will require cutting it when adjusting the doses.

  19. Quote Originally Posted by JanSz
    Just realised on the bottom of that page, they are also selling another brand , the picture shows Westhroid, it happen to be in one size only.
    120mg tablet is equivalent to two grains of thyroid.
    In the text they say that it is: Brand name Nature or Westhroid.

    Is this what are you taking, Phil?
    With one (larger) pill it will require cutting it when adjusting the doses.
    Yes this is what I have Westhyroid mine is 1 grain 60mgs. But I was taking my wifes armour for a time it was a 90mg. pill that I cut in half when I first started then she had some 2 grain left so when I went up to 60 mgs I cut them in half. I use a pill cutter.
    Phil

  20. Quote Originally Posted by pmgamer18
    Yes this is what I have Westhyroid mine is 1 grain 60mgs. But I was taking my wifes armour for a time it was a 90mg. pill that I cut in half when I first started then she had some 2 grain left so when I went up to 60 mgs I cut them in half. I use a pill cutter.
    Phil
    Going by marianco's advice:
    MESO-Rx - View Single Post - Update on Using Isocort.
    "Most people tolerate starting at 30 mg of Armour Thyroid a day (about 1/2 a grain). If in good health otherwise, many tolerate starting at 60 mg a day. If the person is fragile in health or has significant adrenal fatigue, then I may start at 15 mg a day. Then I may ramp up in dose by 15 mg or 30 mg every 2 weeks as tolerated (i.e. so long as significant symptoms of hyperthyroidism do not show up), to an initial plateau of 60 mg before getting lab tests, then if needed, gradually increasing the dose every 2 weeks to 120 mg a day."

    Those pills, either Armour or Westhroid, can they be cleanly and evenly cut at least into quarters or maybe eights.
    Since it is better to take them twice daily (because of T3 life) if I would start with 120mg (2grains) Westhyroid I would need two 1/8 pils daily. May be hard to make this fine cuts.

  21. I started on the Isocort working my way up to 4 pills in he morning and 2 at noon and dinner. I take my temp 4 times a day and chart the avg. See this link.
    Temperature Patterns of low adrenal and thyroid function
    Using this to take my temp.
    Thermometer
    I was doing this about a month before the start of Isocort and my temp avg. was all over the place 97 avg. one day then 98 the next. As I got up to 8 pills = 20mgs of cortisol and this is safe read Safe uses of Cortisol by Jefferies.
    My Temp started to stay level from day to day but under 98.6
    more like 97.8 to 98.2 this is when I started on Armour 45 mgs. After about 2 weeks my temp went up to 98.6 and about the 4th week went way down to 97 for 2 days this is when I upped the dose to 60 mgs. and in a day my temp was back up to 98.6. After a time this happened again and I went up 15mg and have been there now for 8 days. So when my Temp goes Down I feel like crap and was sweating a lot and it was cold out side. I don't know if this means anything but when you try this you will see what I am talking about. If your Adrenals are low you need to go up slow to much Thyroid will stress your Adrenals.
    Phil

  22. Quote Originally Posted by Dr. John
    A common story. You need 100mg of CoQ10, 2 grams of carnitine, and 10 grams of D-ribose each day.

    Also 3 grams of fish oil, 400IU of NATURAL (incl gamma tocopherol) Vit E (taken with the fish oil) and 500mg of Vit C BID.
    Dr. John: is that Acetyl-L-Carnitine, or L-Carnitine?

    10 g D-Ribose? Would that down regulate anything in a body's energy system?

  23. Phil when are you taking your vitamins? because fiber and minerals in your Food could bind the Armour thyroid. I feel so much better being on t-3 and cortisol then armour. Sleeping so much better and plenty of energy strength going up as well. Now I just have to titrate up slowly been at 6.5 mcgs for a week will increase it another few days. Testosterone @ 5% was shutting me down with out regular hcg. I am waiting to see dr get blood work down on 10% with the hcg. I may switch to a slow release t-3, but I do not know if it is really necessary except it may decrease stress from adrenals. But it it slow releases then vitamins and mineral could interfer even if taken with 4-6 hours because the pill is still in your stomach could it not ? What makes this so difficult ther eare so many conlficting sides of the story whether slow release and normal t-3 which one is better even by drs. Be easier just to flip a coin to solve problem. if i did not have these damn rt3 then armour be way to go and life be so much simpilar thats for sure

  24. Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973
    Phil when are you taking your vitamins? because fiber and minerals in your Food could bind the Armour thyroid. I feel so much better being on t-3 and cortisol then armour. Sleeping so much better and plenty of energy strength going up as well. Now I just have to titrate up slowly been at 6.5 mcgs for a week will increase it another few days. Testosterone @ 5% was shutting me down with out regular hcg. I am waiting to see dr get blood work down on 10% with the hcg. I may switch to a slow release t-3, but I do not know if it is really necessary except it may decrease stress from adrenals. But it it slow releases then vitamins and mineral could interfer even if taken with 4-6 hours because the pill is still in your stomach could it not ? What makes this so difficult ther eare so many conlficting sides of the story whether slow release and normal t-3 which one is better even by drs. Be easier just to flip a coin to solve problem. if i did not have these damn rt3 then armour be way to go and life be so much simpilar thats for sure
    Armour most be taken on an empty stomach I started this morning putting it between my gums and cheek. This is talked about a lot and most feel is the best way to take it. I read the other day about a Dr. that dose not test rt3 anymore he felt that once one was on enough Armour or slow release T3 the problem goes way. I put the link in my files and it did not take. I can't find the site but it was a google search. If I come accross it I will post it. Been reading about Isocort allday and it's dam hard to find anything with all the adds for sale.
    Phil

  25. Quote Originally Posted by pmgamer18
    Armour most be taken on an empty stomach I started this morning putting it between my gums and cheek. This is talked about a lot and most feel is the best way to take it. I read the other day about a Dr. that dose not test rt3 anymore he felt that once one was on enough Armour or slow release T3 the problem goes way. I put the link in my files and it did not take. I can't find the site but it was a google search. If I come accross it I will post it. Been reading about Isocort allday and it's dam hard to find anything with all the adds for sale.
    Phil
    I was just at this site and Chris is talking about rt3.
    Stop The Thyroid Madness :: View topic - Reverse t3 questions
    Phil
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