HRT costs per year?

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    HRT costs per year?


    How much would testosterone cost annually if on HRT without insurance or even prescription? I would imagine homebrewing being cheapest but what would be the range of spending for a whole year of HRT?

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    $120 per year for T Cream, from the largest compounding pharmacy in the country. Thats $10 per month.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1cc
    $120 per year for T Cream, from the largest compounding pharmacy in the country. Thats $10 per month.
    Really? and that is out of pocket expense?
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    Quote Originally Posted by pistonpump
    Really? and that is out of pocket expense?
    That is total cost without any insurance.
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    What is the compounding pharmacy you are referring to. I am currently paying $360.00 for a 3 month supply
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobi
    What is the compounding pharmacy you are referring to. I am currently paying $360.00 for a 3 month supply
    Prices for meds

    Testosterone Cypionate 200mg/ml 10ml $40 incl. shipping
    Testosterone cream 60grams 100mg/gram (max 100mg/gram) $40 lasts 2+ months depending on how much you use (1g 2 months, 1/2g 4 months, 1/4gram 8 months)
    Women's International Pharmacy - Natural hormone replacement therapies - compounding specialists for women/men

    HCG APP brand 10,000iu 10ml $32 incl. shipping lasts 60 days unlike Novarel which is 30 days.
    Walmart speciality pharmacy 877-453-4566
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. John
    I feature Signature Compounding Pharmacy T gel at my office. We dispense it at $60 for a two month supply (at usual starting dose).
    BTW, this is a very good price for a gel. With creams the economics work out better because one can use parts of a gram of high concentration cream, whereas with gels it would be too difficult to do.
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    Ah a testosterone frost, lol.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. John
    I feature Signature Compounding Pharmacy T gel at my office. We dispense it at $60 for a two month supply (at usual starting dose).

    Sounds like you're doing business with an Internet business.
    Yes, I am working with an internet business. My doctor doesn't seem to beleive in HRT.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobi
    Yes, I am working with an internet business. My doctor doesn't seem to beleive in HRT.
    Not possible to find a new Dr.? I understand if the answer is yes, I'm just curious. I go to see my primary care physician next week. He doesn't yet know that I am on HRT.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1cc
    Prices for meds

    Testosterone Cypionate 200mg/ml 10ml $40 incl. shipping
    Testosterone cream 60grams 100mg/gram (max 100mg/gram) $40 lasts 2+ months depending on how much you use (1g 2 months, 1/2g 4 months, 1/4gram 8 months)
    Women's International Pharmacy - Natural hormone replacement therapies - compounding specialists for women/men

    HCG APP brand 10,000iu 10ml $32 incl. shipping lasts 60 days unlike Novarel which is 30 days.
    Walmart speciality pharmacy 877-453-4566
    you need presciptions for all these correct? doesn't seem like any joe-blow could call them up and order some test cyp. or HCG. correct me if im wrong, i dont know the process with this company, great pricing though
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    Quote Originally Posted by ralph4u2c
    you need presciptions for all these correct? doesn't seem like any joe-blow could call them up and order some test cyp. or HCG. correct me if im wrong, i dont know the process with this company, great pricing though
    Yes, you would need a prescription.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. John
    I do not use creams--delivery is too slow and inconsistent. They also increase the risk of accidental transfer.

    There's really no need to go over 5% concentration. Doing so makes dosing inexact and may leave a testosterone frost on some individuals.
    Theoretically, creams can be compounded to 200mg/gram (20%), although realistically 100mg/gram(10%) produces a better cream. Gels are usually compounded max 5%, although Signature does it at 10%. The cream absorbs quickly, but needs to be applied to thin hairless skin eg. inner bicep area, or inner forearm area. I apply to inner bicep of 1 bicep and alternate biceps every day to avoid saturation. Since the amount of cream applied is very small, this is possible. I have never experienced frost with creams (I use a vanishing cream base). This may be something that only occurs with gels. I wear a T-shirt to avoid transference.

    Here is an article written by Medaus about different bases.

    Topic: Creams, Gels and Lotions

    Not quite the same ring as trains, planes and automobiles but creams, gels and lotions are an important component to the success of the therapy you prescribe for your patients. Have you given this much thought? I know doctors and most pharmacists in my community do not. The docs write a prescription for a transdermal (whether that be pain medication or bio-identical hormone replacement medications, etc)-tell the patient to go to a compounding pharmacy and have the prescription filled. The patient calls the practitioner in the middle of the night because she is having hot flashes due to her “medicine” not working. Is it the dose, the time of administration…OR is it the base used? The issue occurs when the doc is not specific on what base to use and/or the pharmacist is not knowledgeable or proficient enough in compounding to adequately inform the physician on the best vehicle to use.

    This topic will be discussed in detail at our upcoming seminar in Las Vegas. For now, however, let me discuss some practical issues on this subject. Medaus Pharmacy has both anecdotally and quantitatively determined the following:

    Lipoderm or PLO bases are alcohol based and has a high rate of absorption. This high rate drives the medication through the layers of the skin and at times through the fat (lipid soluble) resulting in peak-valley pharmacokinetic results. With Bio-identical hormones for example, depending on when (what time) samples are taken for lab purposes (versus when the base is applied) can affect the concentration reading of the hormone. With BHRT this is not the goal so we do not recommend PLO unless testosterone is the active ingredient.

    Vanishing cream as well as Medaus Cosmetic HRT base has less “force” of penetration of hormones for instance, resulting in slower release than other creams and by default results in more consistent levels for the patients. More appropriate pharmacokinetic characteristics for BHRT.

    Emollient Cream bases have been around for ages…they are effective but tend to leave an oily/sticky feeling on the patients skin.

    Vanishing Cream bases are effective, light and more “cosmetically” appealing than the other bases but is not as consistent as the Medaus Cosmetic Cream HRT base.

    In addition, different skin types, among other things, plays a major role in the decision of which cream to chose. At Medaus, we have found that the Medaus Cosmetic HRT cream base or vanishing creams deliver the best results regardless if the patient has dry skin, oily or leathery. Also, age considerations should be noted due to thickness of skin or lack thereof due to aging.
    Last edited by Dr. John; 01-27-2007 at 10:05 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pistonpump
    How much would testosterone cost annually if on HRT without insurance or even prescription? I would imagine homebrewing being cheapest but what would be the range of spending for a whole year of HRT?
    I pay for all out of pocket. I get these prices at Sam's Club with a Business membership. Non-business memberships do not get these prices.

    10 ml Watson's test cyp 200mg/ml $42 (around $100 at Walgreen's)
    10,000iu HCG kit $16.25 (lasts 80 days @ 250iu EOD)
    100 #29 .5" .5ml insulin syringes $12
    100 #23 1.5" 3ml syringes $18

    These costs are trivial. Blood work is the greatest cost.

    Arimidex anastrozole is expensive from a pharmacy.
    Last edited by Dr. John; 01-25-2007 at 05:31 AM.
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    I tihnk I need to swtich brands because every since I stopped the armidex on the testocreme it been down hill straight from there ever since. So progrmmer was right it about PLO gel base. Say when i get test results back and my e2 is elevated after swithcing brands for 2 weeks can test be ran again to confirm the corrected dosage? Dr john is your signature pharamacy available for any dr to call it get a prescription from or is that just for your patience. I just want to get this right is all been 2 years of fumbling around with things and this is worst i have felt so far.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KSman
    I pay for all out of pocket. I get these prices at Sam's Club with a Business membership. Non-business memberships do not get these prices.

    10 ml Watson's test cyp 200mg/ml $42 (around $100 at Walgreen's)
    10,000iu HCG kit $16.25 (lasts 80 days @ 250iu EOD)
    100 #29 .5" .5ml insulin syringes $12
    100 #23 1.5" 3ml syringes $18

    These costs are trivial. Blood work is the greatest cost.

    Arimidex anastrozole is expensive from a pharmacy.
    HCG that lasts 80 days what brand name are you using.
    Phil
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    $1300US per year for andriol without the discount(you need to be low enough to be bed ridden before claiming discount ), expensive because basicly, its 160mg of testosterone unceconoate per day.
    Last edited by ItsHectic; 01-26-2007 at 06:26 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973
    I tihnk I need to swtich brands because every since I stopped the armidex on the testocreme it been down hill straight from there ever since. So progrmmer was right it about PLO gel base. Say when i get test results back and my e2 is elevated after swithcing brands for 2 weeks can test be ran again to confirm the corrected dosage? Dr john is your signature pharamacy available for any dr to call it get a prescription from or is that just for your patience. I just want to get this right is all been 2 years of fumbling around with things and this is worst i have felt so far.
    Post your test results.
    Possibly too much testocreme.
    Describe your testocreme strenght, how much are you using.
    Bottom line is what is your FreeT.
    ---------
    As I understand,
    the theory is that you have to keep your FreeT just right,
    if too high, E2 goes up.
    Too much HCG (probably over 100IU/day), E2 goes up.
    MESO-Rx - View Single Post - On HCG 25yrs old, Concerned!
    FreeT3 at high end gives more energy, optimizes T and E2.
    When kept per above (probably many more),
    production of E2 is minimized and easier to manage
    with just DIM+I3C
    which is a better gentler and less expensive choice than (rough) Arimidex.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz
    Post your test results.
    Possibly too much testocreme.
    Describe your testocreme strenght, how much are you using.
    Bottom line is what is your FreeT.
    ---------
    As I understand,
    the theory is that you have to keep your FreeT just right,
    if too high, E2 goes up.
    Too much HCG (probably over 100IU/day), E2 goes up.
    MESO-Rx - View Single Post - On HCG 25yrs old, Concerned!
    FreeT3 at high end gives more energy, optimizes T and E2.
    When kept per above (probably many more),
    production of E2 is minimized and easier to manage
    with just DIM+I3C
    which is a better gentler and less expensive choice than (rough) Arimidex.
    Last test results via blood work results were in accurate do to fact that blood was drawn not after taking the gel.

    this was awhile back on 5% creme no hcg, no armidex

    free T was 11.5
    total t was 425
    estrodial 24
    sbhg 30
    free t-3 low normal
    free t-4 dead mid range
    reverse t-3 off charts

    Was doing 5% with 250 ius hcg and armidex 1/2 mgs m,th dr wanted a bse line rading so i dropped everything and went on 10% creme for a month problem was is that i ran out of money financial reason and could not afford the tests no insurance, but a week after stopping armidex no more morning wood, brain fog. white spots appearing in fingernails, appetite and strength dropped like a ROCK. next friday I get compelte blood work and get things done properly like it should have been done 2 years ago

    dosage 10% testocreme right now no armidex, no hcg, Dim 200 mgs. Applying to forearm, and white reidue is left behind after applied. May be i should apply it on my abs and see if that makes a differnce, but i can not find a study that does speficy if ther eis a differnt in e2 on forearm vs flank of abs

    Ok i am going to run alittle experiment drs always told me to rub it in on the forearms so i have been, but just for hell of it i am going to apply it to my intercostals and see if my morning errections come back and be curious to see how blood works looks next week plus how it makes me feel different. Since Food allergies produce histamines and the liver uses the same pathways to discard elevated estrogen levels could be possbile be a connection because my urine histamines where off the charts. So could hidden food allergies actually be contribbuting to elevated estrogen levels due to the fact that the liver has to deal with both the histamines and estrogen in the same pathways hmmmm pretty interesting and i can pretty much guarrantee any one with elevated estrogen levels is undermethylated as dr john has nicely pointed out about using TMG which helps over ride this..
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973
    Last test results via blood work results were in accurate do to fact that blood was drawn not after taking the gel.

    this was awhile back on 5% creme no hcg, no armidex

    free T was 11.5
    total t was 425
    estrodial 24
    sbhg 30
    free t-3 low normal
    free t-4 dead mid range
    reverse t-3 off charts

    Was doing 5% with 250 ius hcg and armidex 1/2 mgs m,th dr wanted a bse line rading so i dropped everything and went on 10% creme for a month problem was is that i ran out of money financial reason and could not afford the tests no insurance, but a week after stopping armidex no more morning wood, brain fog. white spots appearing in fingernails, appetite and strength dropped like a ROCK. next friday I get compelte blood work and get things done properly like it should have been done 2 years ago

    dosage 10% testocreme right now no armidex, no hcg, Dim 200 mgs. Applying to forearm, and white reidue is left behind after applied. May be i should apply it on my abs and see if that makes a differnce, but i can not find a study that does speficy if ther eis a differnt in e2 on forearm vs flank of abs
    Based on
    Albumin=4.3g/dL(assumed)
    SHBG=30nmol/L
    Testosterone=425ng/dL
    I calculate your
    FreeT=9.24ng/dL=92.4pg/mL
    Dr Shippen like it to be at 160pg/mL
    MESO-Rx - View Single Post - noob question - Why just hCG when test will do?
    ---------------------------------------------------------
    Either stay in HCG, 100IU/day (I guess that is best) or
    some kind of 2 or 3 times a week dose but no more than 700IU weekly.
    Read this:
    MESO-Rx - View Single Post - On HCG 25yrs old, Concerned!
    or do not use HCG at all, do not jerk around.
    Increase yout T cream/gel until your FreeT is at 160.
    Do not worry too much about larger area of skin, spread it
    thin enough so it would sink in and get absobed.
    ---------------------------------------------------------
    My best guess is that if you take a blood test up to 24 hours
    after applying gell or creme, your test is still good.
    Definitely do not draw a blood within at least 4 hours of application.
    ---------------------------------------------------------
    Stay on something steady, at least for month and half, then re-evaluate.
    ---------------------------------------------------------
    HCG over 100IU/day just increases E2
    ---------------------------------------------------------
    I am confused about your 200mg of DIM
    You are possibly using type unknown here.
    Some DIM is junk.
    Indolplex with DIM quotes 120mg per pill

    I use
    Dual-Action Cruciferous Vegetable Extract With Resveratrol & Cat's Claw, 60 Vegetarian Capsules
    other tha DIM it have I3C plus other good stuff.
    2 pills have the same amount of DIM as one pill of Indolplex.
    ---------------------------------------------------------
    At some point you want to address your SHBG
    To lower your SHBG, Avena Sativa Extract/Green oat, Urtica dioica aka Stinging nettle
    I use Advanced Natural Prostate Formula with 5-Loxin® Item Catalog Number: 975 ,
    take 1.5 or 2x of the recommended dose.
    -----http://www.lef.org/newshop/items/item00975.html
    and Super MiraForte with Maximum Strength Chrysin Item Catalog Number: 615,
    take 1.5 to 2x recommended dose.
    -----http://www.lef.org/newshop/items/item00615.html
    ---------------------------------------------------------
    free t-3 low normal
    basically that mens very low, raise it up, Armour Thyroid (cautiously, slowly).
    ---------------------------------------------------------
    I am not a doctor, I dance.
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    [FreeT=9.24ng/dL=92.4pg/mL
    Dr Shippen like it to be at 160pg/mL
    [url=http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/520476-post8.html]

    Either stay in HCG, 100IU/day (I guess that is best) or
    some kind of 2 or 3 times a week dose but no more than 700IU weekly.

    Increase yout T cream/gel until your FreeT is at 160.
    Do not worry too much about larger area of skin, spread it
    thin enough so it would sink in and get absobed.
    ---------------------------------------------------------
    My best guess is that if you take a blood test up to 24 hours
    after applying gell or creme, your test is still good.
    Definitely do not draw a blood within at least 4 hours of application.
    ---------------------------------------------------------
    Stay on something steady, at least for month and half, then re-evaluate.

    free t-3 low normal
    basically that mens very low, raise it up, Armour Thyroid (cautiously, slowly).
    ---------------------------------------------------------
    I am not a doctor, I dance.[/QUOTE]

    Ok i agree with you Free T is low that needs to be raised, but if estrodial is 24 with out being applied what would it be then being applied. Dr john has consisitently mentioned that creme needs to be applied before test in order to get a base line reasding, My thinking is that if estrodial was 24 with out creme being applied what was it with it being applied and would the Shbg actually increases or could the estrogen actually be decreased once the free levels increase. This could mean that estrogen levels need to be addressed by what means necessary. I will have been on the test creme almost 2 months with out tests so we will have a better indication next test. By increasing free testosterone then my estrogen may even go down a bit i do not know untill it is taken properly. Thats why i need to have all labs done and then I will consult dr john with my dr to get proper protocol for treatment.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973
    .
    Whatever you do, do it in steady way for month and half before you have a test.
    Otherwise you wasting your money and missing reliable information going forward.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz
    Whatever you do, do it in steady way for month and half before you have a test.
    Otherwise you wasting your money and missing reliable information going forward.
    i have been steady with the 10% so results will be valid, but changing from forearm to abdominal flank application should be able to feel difference in a few weeks. If i get morning wood then I know that was the problem. JanSz your indept comments and resarch are very well appreciated on this board.
    My hormone problems are only a symptom of the major cause which is leakygut syndrome and malabsorption of nutrients causing extra stress on the liver. Once I find out what the hidden allergie is which I have an idea from my friend told me its rice then removing that and other allergens will heal the intestinal wall and body will rebalance it self. I know estrogen is major culprit now and by reducing the source of the problem it will allveiate all the other symptoms as well as detoxification of estrogen releiveing stress off the thyroid. By balancing out the testosterone it will help to burn off excessive fat being stored in liver caused by elevated estrogen. one thing I i have learned is change one variable at a time so you know what is working in order to create confusion. My mind has always been scientific by nature and that is why I am good at my profession.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973
    i have been steady with the 10% so results will be valid, but changing from forearm to abdominal flank application should be able to feel difference in a few weeks. If i get morning wood then I know that was the problem. JanSz your indept comments and resarch are very well appreciated on this board.
    My hormone problems are only a symptom of the major cause which is leakygut syndrome and malabsorption of nutrients causing extra stress on the liver. Once I find out what the hidden allergie is which I have an idea from my friend told me its rice then removing that and other allergens will heal the intestinal wall and body will rebalance it self. I know estrogen is major culprit now and by reducing the source of the problem it will allveiate all the other symptoms as well as detoxification of estrogen releiveing stress off the thyroid. By balancing out the testosterone it will help to burn off excessive fat being stored in liver caused by elevated estrogen. one thing I i have learned is change one variable at a time so you know what is working in order to create confusion. My mind has always been scientific by nature and that is why I am good at my profession.
    I do not know about leaky gut and the other.
    But I make sure to have lots of friendly bacteria there.
    Life Flora, 300 Mg 120 Capsules: Source Naturals

    Super Digestive Enzymes, 800 Mg 100 Capsules

    Lactoferrin (Apolactoferrin) Caps, 60 Capsules

    Digest Rc, 30 Tablets

    Enhanced Life Extension Whey Protein (Natural), 1 Kilo

    Good read:
    Digestive Disorders: Online Reference For Health Concerns
    -----------------------------------------------------------
    Once I was in deep doodoo. Unbelivable stomach pain.
    Waited maybe a month before making doctor's appointment.
    For doctor's (gasterentorologist) visit had to wait 2 months (I am in USA),
    then doctor told me to do get tested (by him), another wait of 1.5 months.
    Sigmoscopy and into stomach thru the thoat, I forgot the name of that test.
    All in all I had to wait for diagnosis about 5 months.
    By the time I went for test I did not have any problems.

    In mean time I tried tonns of over the counter, all garbage when it come to solve actual problem.

    DGL helped some, also slippery elm.
    But the best and I recomend it, Lecithin with
    A.M.P. Molo-Cure Platinum ($160 per bottle then).
    I still have a bottle with unused part, and am looking at it, very light powder.
    I googled now for it.
    Cannot find the one I have, I used it may be 10 years ago.
    Possibly similar product is here
    Molocure
    as:

    Digestinol, MoloCure
    and others seem to come and go. $119/ea. Pure Certified AMP
    Aloe Elite
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    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz
    I do not know about leaky gut and the other.
    But I make sure to have lots of friendly bacteria there.
    Life Flora, 300 Mg 120 Capsules: Source Naturals

    Super Digestive Enzymes, 800 Mg 100 Capsules

    Lactoferrin (Apolactoferrin) Caps, 60 Capsules

    Digest Rc, 30 Tablets

    Enhanced Life Extension Whey Protein (Natural), 1 Kilo

    Good read:
    Digestive Disorders: Online Reference For Health Concerns
    -----------------------------------------------------------
    Once I was in deep doodoo. Unbelivable stomach pain.
    Waited maybe a month before making doctor's appointment.
    For doctor's (gasterentorologist) visit had to wait 2 months (I am in USA),
    then doctor told me to do get tested (by him), another wait of 1.5 months.
    Sigmoscopy and into stomach thru the thoat, I forgot the name of that test.
    All in all I had to wait for diagnosis about 5 months.
    By the time I went for test I did not have any problems.

    In mean time I tried tonns of over the counter, all garbage when it come to solve actual problem.

    DGL helped some, also slippery elm.
    But the best and I recomend it, Lecithin with
    A.M.P. Molo-Cure Platinum ($160 per bottle then).
    I still have a bottle with unused part, and am looking at it, very light powder.
    I googled now for it.
    Cannot find the one I have, I used it may be 10 years ago.
    Possibly similar product is here
    Molocure
    as:

    Digestinol, MoloCure
    and others seem to come and go. $119/ea. Pure Certified AMP
    Aloe Elite
    I have been all down that road. Over past 2 years i have learned alot about digestive,brain, liver, adrenal/thyroid connection. I have malaborption and all the HRT in the world will not help if you do not fed your body nutrients it is lacking you do not have building blocks for the hormones it self. i am very familar with molo-cure and all remdies you have mentioned my main thing is to find the allergen which is the source of my problem. I have no bifiobacteria in my colon all destroyed from infection from sushi. i have been taking healthy trinity and hoping to repopulate. Going to gastro in 2 weeks for colonscopy and endoscopy and I'm not taking its all in your head for answer and Paxil ever again. I already ordered all of the metabolic testing, and intestinal permeablily test to verify what we dealing with. SLuggish liver is from leaky gut and body's own by products of metabolism seeping into the blood stream vs being left in the intestines. Correct the leaky gut and all other systems will balances. Very simple concept.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973
    I have been all down that road. Over past 2 years i have learned alot about digestive,brain, liver, adrenal/thyroid connection. I have malaborption and all the HRT in the world will not help if you do not fed your body nutrients it is lacking you do not have building blocks for the hormones it self. i am very familar with molo-cure and all remdies you have mentioned my main thing is to find the allergen which is the source of my problem. I have no bifiobacteria in my colon all destroyed from infection from sushi. i have been taking healthy trinity and hoping to repopulate. Going to gastro in 2 weeks for colonscopy and endoscopy and I'm not taking its all in your head for answer and Paxil ever again. I already ordered all of the metabolic testing, and intestinal permeablily test to verify what we dealing with. SLuggish liver is from leaky gut and body's own by products of metabolism seeping into the blood stream vs being left in the intestines. Correct the leaky gut and all other systems will balances. Very simple concept.
    Read this, time permiting:
    Irritable Bowel Syndrome: Online References For Health Concerns

    Inflammatory Bowel Disease: Online References For Health Concerns
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973
    iam a memeber of LEF
    Then read and then talk to their advisors.
    Try few, if first do not give you satisfaction.
    That was my case.
    Then I landed good one, but eventually he must have got tired of me and stop answering my e-mails.
    At certain point I will check with them again.
    My needs are mostly on TRT adrenals and thyroid, and I am getting better info here.
    In your case, the intestinal problems may be better addressed by them.
    I would look more for solid information.
    There is a lot of hand waving going around, trying to sell snake oil, that one should try to avoid.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmgamer18
    HCG that lasts 80 days what brand name are you using.
    Phil
    The 10,000iu at 250iu lasts 80 days.

    The HCG brand is American Pharmaceutical Partners Inc. (It is not recombinant.) The insert states to use within 60 days after reconstitution.
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