OTC controled estrogen

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    OTC controled estrogen


    I've been reading on allthingsmale, found this in the FAQ:

    Q: What are the possible negative side effects of TRT?

    "Some men report some water retention. This usually subsides, but if it doesn't, can be easily controlled by using a medication or OTC (Over-the-Counter) supplement to lower estrogen-the usual cause of chronic water weight gain while on TRT."

    What is the OTC he is talking about?

    Thanks,

    Jim

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    Here is a start for you these are some of the ingredients he is talking about.

    Indolplex,DIM,indole-3-carbinol (I3C),
    Diindolylmethane FAQs - "All About DIM"
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadJimF
    I've been reading on allthingsmale, found this in the FAQ:

    Q: What are the possible negative side effects of TRT?

    "Some men report some water retention. This usually subsides, but if it doesn't, can be easily controlled by using a medication or OTC (Over-the-Counter) supplement to lower estrogen-the usual cause of chronic water weight gain while on TRT."

    What is the OTC he is talking about?

    Thanks,

    Jim
    INdole 3 carbinole is obsolete, 6-OXO or Novedex XT are far better formastene is another option. I have used 600mg/ed of 6-OXO alone and did notice a big increase in strength. Metacort at Bulk Nutrition also an effective OTC AI.
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    ATD (rebound xt) if kept below 50mg and/or the new "Rebound Reloaded"

    ATD.wps.doc



    Before going to TRT you might want to try PGH-T and 25mgs of ATD.

    That is what I put my friends on that are just feeling the slow down of old age and want a boost back into their 30s.

    If you have a more severe problem then you need to see a doctor. If you are not sure then get tested.
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    Werewolf:
    Great info, thanks for the doc, just what I was looking for, answered a lot of questions I didn't even know I was going to ask yet.

    Thanks again...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. John
    I'm afraid I just don't know much about the OTC's other than estrogen-manipulating Dim/I-3-C and TMG/DMG. And there is MUCH to debate and still learn about these. I eagerly admit the jury is still out on these supplements.

    I usually just use anastrozole. But I am not altogether comfortable using powerful endocrine disrupters such as this.

    I am very much interested in your opinions of how the other OTC's have worked for you.

    I discussed 6-OXO with Patrick Armold a year and a half ago (Rick Collins introduced us). What a nice fellow he is, and smart as a whip. But I'm still not quite sure of 6-OXO's exact actions.

    Questions/comments/smart-remarks?
    6-OXO, ATD(Rebound XT) and Rebound Reloaded all work. What is not know if there is problems with long term low dose use.

    ATD has shown very good results with people with only slightly low testestosterone levels. It can get the most testosterone boost per amount of estrogen suppression. Problem is if you take more than 50mgs a day then libido issues can happen. 25 mgs a day can make from 25% to 50% raise in testosterone levels. I posted a paper earlier in this thread.

    Nice to have you on board.
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    I did them all every kind of OTC product out there one that worked for me was Indolplex/DIM but in time it drove up my Total E's and the problems I had with High E2 came back. So I went back to the first thing that worked for me Arimidex. The problem with taking anything to lower E2 is going to low. You need to do a lot of testing and get in tune with how you body reacts to high E2 and low E2 both are bad. I find that keeping my E2 at about 20 I am in the zone. I can't tell if my E2 is to high I get sore and hard nipples feel Hot and if I let it go to high I get panic attacks. When I got my E2 down the first time a lot of problems I had went away. I had bad ED, could not reach an orgasm, panic attacks, brain fog, Prostate problems with slow voiding and would break out in a bad rash.

    Getting my E2 down all of the above was much better or gone. And as a plus I got my morning wood back after not having them for many yrs. So today to keep from going to low I check my moring wood if it not working I check it if I can't get it up am going to low and my blood test show this. So when wood is gone I stop taking the product I am on until the wood comes back this I go back on it but take less. I have told this to lot of men and it works. The last one I told this to is 83 and still active with his wife. He has been on TRT some 25 yrs. and in the last 5 yrs. he got bad ED and it was his High E2 he is happy man today.
    Phil
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmgamer18
    I did them all every kind of OTC product out there one that worked for me was Indolplex/DIM but in time it drove up my Total E's and the problems I had with High E2 came back. So I went back to the first thing that worked for me Arimidex. The problem with taking anything to lower E2 is going to low. You need to do a lot of testing and get in tune with how you body reacts to high E2 and low E2 both are bad. I find that keeping my E2 at about 20 I am in the zone. I can't tell if my E2 is to high I get sore and hard nipples feel Hot and if I let it go to high I get panic attacks. When I got my E2 down the first time a lot of problems I had went away. I had bad ED, could not reach an orgasm, panic attacks, brain fog, Prostate problems with slow voiding and would break out in a bad rash.

    Getting my E2 down all of the above was much better or gone. And as a plus I got my morning wood back after not having them for many yrs. So today to keep from going to low I check my moring wood if it not working I check it if I can't get it up am going to low and my blood test show this. So when wood is gone I stop taking the product I am on until the wood comes back this I go back on it but take less. I have told this to lot of men and it works. The last one I told this to is 83 and still active with his wife. He has been on TRT some 25 yrs. and in the last 5 yrs. he got bad ED and it was his High E2 he is happy man today.
    Phil
    pg18 - what doses of arimidex do you use on a regular bases? I am on .5mg 3X's a week. Taking test cyp 200mg/week. Thinking of upping for awhile to see if libido improves. The symptoms you have with high E2 are exactly what got me to try HRT.
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    I have lowed my T does turns out going on Isocort = 20mgs. of cortisol my T levels went way up my body is not using up the T meds as fast as there were. So I had to lower my T dose was doing 62 mgs every 3 days and 400 IU's of HCG the 2 days in between. Now I am doing 41mg and the same on HCG so now I am doing .25 mgs of Arimidex every 5 days was doing .5 mgs. every 3 days.

    Here is a cut and paste on what Dr. Marianco says about why some need a higher dose of T meds. A cut & paste.
    You may find him posting here with Dr. John soon.

    Re: what is the best time get blood test for testostorne levels?

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by the/rock
    I am on 250mg enthante a week .trt therapy.
    On my second week so going for tests soon.
    I was wanting to know when the best time to get
    blood tests done for levels of test .I have looked on
    the internet and what i have learnt is the test levels
    peak at 24 to 48 hours after jab and are at there lowest
    the day before next jab.I am going to ask the doctor if i can
    test 48 hours after first test and on the morning of my jab.
    (blood test are cheap in my counry).to get an adverage of
    testostorne to see the difference and how much enthante
    a week a will need to get me in a good range ,good energy
    ,increased libido,fat loss etc, with out side effects.I have a
    great doctor!!
    What do you think?


    Obtaining a total testosterone Peak blood level and a Trough blood level is useful.

    The Peak for Testosterone Enanthate is about 24-48 hours after the injection.
    The Trough (lowest level) for Testosterone Enanthate is just before the next injection.

    Obtaining both levels will give the range of testosterone one's body is exposed to.
    This is helpful to see if a person is within a good therapeutic range.

    The shorter the intervals between injections, the flatter the range will be.

    Large variations between the peak and trough can be a problem because there can be large changes in DHT and Estradiol levels - contributing to problems such as weight gain, acne, hair loss, and hot flashes. Hot flashes occur when estradiol levels drop quickly - they are withdrawal from estrogen.

    Large peaks of testosterone may also result in large amounts of DHT and Estradiol being made. When Estradiol is made from testosterone, its peak levels last much longer than testosterone itself - resulting in a larger exposure to estradiol even as the levels of testosterone drop.

    Testosterone Enanthate usually has a half-life of about 7-9 days. This results in a good total testosterone level (e.g. 700-900) at a dose of 100 mg a week. The half-life varies though depending on the person's ability to metabolize testosterone enanthate and testosterone.

    In some men, the half-life of Testosterone Enanthate is much shorter. For example, in some men, the half-life is around 4 days. To achieve a total testosterone of around 800, such a person would need about 200 mg a week.

    Given a Testosterone Enanthate dose of 200 mg every 2 weeks for an average hypogonadal male, the total testosterone curve shows a peak of around 1250 ng/dl approximately 24-48 hours after the injection, 1000 ng/dl around 4 days after the injection, 800 ng/dl 7 days after the injection, 600 ng/dl 10 days after the injection, and baseline about 14 days after the injection.

    A way to tell what the half-life would be is to give the person a 200 mg dose then measure the total testosterone approximately 4 days or 7 days later. If the level is significantly lower than the average male dose curve, then the half-life is going to be shorter.

    For example, I have a patient with a level of about 600 ng/dl 4 days after the 200 mg injection. This is about 40% less than the expected 1000 ng/dl seen in an average person. He has a very short half-life for testosterone enanthate. One could argue that his half-life is about 3 days (since 600 ng/dl is about half of the peak of 1250 ng/dl 24 hours after the injection). His body quickly destroys testosterone. He needed a 200 mg a week dose to achieve a trough blood level of about 800 ng/dl. It was best to dose this 100 mg twice a week to maintain an even blood level, avoiding a roller coaster effect, given the very short half-life of testosterone and testosterone enanthate in his body.
    __________________
    Any statement I make on this site is for educational purposes only and is subject to change. It does not constitute medical advice, does not substitute for proper medical evaluation from physician, does not create a doctor/patient relationship or liability. If you want medical advice, you will have to make an appointment. Thank you.

    Phil
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    Formestane in a transdermal is good as well as Novadex XT, Ultra Hotter and Rebound Reloaded.
  

  
 

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