My Cenegenics Experience

[colkurtz_spf]

Good call on stating this forum B5150. I will use this to update my Cenegenics experience.

Last week they sent a nurse to draw blood at my home. She drew six vials. Eight weeks prior to that I stopped transdermal test. I was put on 5000 IUs of HCG for four weeks and then off for four before drawing blood. I also fasted for 12 hours. Since then I have been back on the HCG and feel pretty good. My energy level is high, my libido is high and I'm sleeping well.

Next Friday morning I'll be checking into a hospital for extensive testing and a consultation with the doctor.

I'll keep everyone posted.

[motiv8er]

We're looking foward to your progress.

[colkurtz_spf]

We're looking foward to your progress.

My visit started Friday morning at Florida Atlantic University’s MRI unit. That’s where I had my bone density test. Upon ar***** I was greeted by Dr Willix’s assistant. She stayed with me and then I followed her back to the main office at Cenegenics. When I arrived, another assistant welcomed me; there was a sign in the waiting room with my personal greeting. Apparently the day was set aside for me. They prepared a nicely appointed room with a laptop, fruit, water and an assortment of teas. A menu was waiting on the table for my lunch selection. And in that room my first test began. On the laptop I went through a series of mental tests ranging form memory to response time.

Later I moved into the examining room for weight and height measurements. For some reason I measured only 6’2.5. That last time, which was several years ago I measured 6’4.” My weight was 257lb, and the body fat tests revealed 20% body fat – higher than I expected. I was given a strength test and flexibility test. I did well on both. Then my blood pressure was taken and I was given an EKG. It was 119/65 with a resting pulse rate of 60. My EKG showed no abnormalities. They served me a wonderful lunch followed by a video explaining insulin levels and degenerative disease before my consultation and final exam with the doctor.

Dr Willix was cardiovascular doctor and thoracic surgeon. He gave up a lucrative practice years ago to pursue preventative medicine. He studied Ayurvedic medicine and is also a shaman. His decision was not popular in the medical community at that time. He also competed regularly in Iron Man events. At 66 he is in remarkable condition. His exam was thorough, and included eye, reflexes, hernia and rectal. He also examined my tongue which surprised me. Since I was young I’ve had a pronounced geographic tongue. He explained that it was due to poor intestinal exorbtion, and probably a cause of demineralization in my spine and hips – nothing severe, but slightly in the high range for my age. I found it hard to believe, so he pulled out an Ayurvedic chart that showed my aberration. He prescribed probiotics and yogurt, and I was told to avoid sodas because they rob bones of calcium.

My blood panels, which were extensive (I gave 6 vials of blood after a 12 hour fast) looked very good. My glucose panel showed no sign of impending diabetes. My thyroid levels were good. Kidney and liver functions were very good. My HDL was a little low. My test levels had crashed as expected and my estradiol was very low.

Prior to my visit, I listed all of the supplements I take along with diet and workout logs (both weights and cardio). The doctor explained that Niacin can lower both good and bad cholesterols and suggested I take 1200 mgs of red rice yeast at bedtime instead. He prescribed 75 mgs of DHEA to be taken in the morning and 5000 IUs of HCG twice a week for the next eight weeks. He will follow up with a blood test to see how I respond and then set my maintenance dosage. Based on my panels and exam he thinks I will respond well. He is keeping me on 7.5 IUs of HGH per week. My current IGF level is 300. He told me to keep taking the rest of my supplements and not change dosage with the exception of EFAs. He wants me to make sure my omegas have EPA of 2- 3 grams. As an Ayurvedic doctor, he was impressed with the USPLab supplements I have been taking. I was glad because they make me feel pretty good and I don't want to give them up. I promised myself and the doctor to give this at least six months. Although I’m somewhat skeptical (as usual) I want to give it a fair chance.

He put me on a low GI diet and revised my workout plan. I will be doing cardio 5 days per week. My heart rate will have to be between 140 and 150 beats per minute for at least 20 minutes during each session. No overall duration was mentioned. He wants me to hit only one body part per week. There will be 7 sets per exercise with a pyramiding rep range between 6 and 12 reps. Rests between sets will only be for one minute. He wants me to maintain this workout until I reach a target weight of 220lbs. Later I will be able to resume lower reps with longer rests for strength.

I’m sure that I left out quite a bit. The doctor will be monitoring my progress, and I will post updates and answer any questions.

[yeahright]

Thanks for the detailed log.

[jcam222]

Very interesting log. I am a bit taken aback by the hcg dosages that high over and eight week period of time. I was under the impression that prolonged dosages that high could cause irreversible damage for natural LH production? I will stay tuned her for sure. At somepoint I can lay out my current HRT as well.

[colkurtz_spf]

Very interesting log. I am a bit taken aback by the hcg dosages that high over and eight week period of time. I was under the impression that prolonged dosages that high could cause irreversible damage for natural LH production? I will stay tuned her for sure. At somepoint I can lay out my current HRT as well.

I was worried about the same (LH), but the doctor assures me that production would return to normal. This treatment isn't for everyone. It won't work for those whose testes can no longer produce.

[David Dunn]

Thanks colkurtz_spf

[colkurtz_spf]

Thanks colkurtz_spf

B5150, it is my pleasure. Thank you for creating this forum. I predict it will grow in time. This subjuct is desperately needed.

I would like to add to jcam222's response that my doseage would have been far less if I hadn't already been on therapy.

[jcam222]

Thanks for the answer and update colkurtz_spf. I will definately be watching your log with interest. Thanks for taking the time to share the info with us.

[jcam222]

Heya Doc!! Good to see you pop in.

[colkurtz_spf]

IMPO, you should never inject more than 500IU at a time. Probably 250 is even better.

A couple of months ago I had lunch with Dr. Eugene Shippen (we are going to meet in a couple weeks to discuss a new project). He drew a chart on a paper napkin which plateaued. He called this "testosterone response to HCG". I asked him where he feels the plateau lies. He said "somewhere less than 500IU". Next he extended two lines upward. One for estrogen, the other progesterone.

If you think of it, there are only just so many Leydig cells to stimulate. I'm sure you have all seen that study where 125IU HCG brought T levels to within 7% of baseline in completely HPTA-suppressed men.

Thank you for your post. I've been out of town on vacation for the past ten days and regret not being able to respond sooner.

I've followed your protocol for post cycle therapy and it for me it worked well. Until recently I had not injected more than 500 IUs at any one time. I will be on the current protocol prescribed by Cenegenics for another 5 or 6 weeks until my blood is tested, after which I assume the dose will taper off to 250IUs. I've been told it will be much less, but not how much less. What you say makes sense, and I suppose that there may be a lot of waste in my dosage.

I will post updates.

[RickM]

Any updates?

Inquiring minds

[colkurtz_spf]

Any updates?

Inquiring minds

I hope to have my labs back next week. I'll post the results.

[colkurtz_spf]

I hope to have my labs back next week. I'll post the results.

These are the results from the labs my doctor ordered. At this point I was on 5,000 IUs of HCG twice a week for a period of 10 weeks. I haven't spoken with him yet, but he is aware that I wish to reduce the dosage.

[colkurtz_spf]

These are the results from the labs my doctor ordered. At this point I was on 5,000 IUs of HCG twice a week for a period of 10 weeks. I haven't spoken with him yet, but he is aware that I wish to reduce the dosage.

I think it's important to mention that I came off a one year transdermal cycle in June, and that my levels had crashed. Prior to TRT my total test was 476. The transdermal had me up to 1711.

I hope to speak with my doctor this week. I'll post his recommendations.

[colkurtz_spf]

Did he try to restore your system first?

Even if not, because of your HCG use, probably it would be a good idea.

We first spoke around the end of May. Before our initial exam and bloodwork, he told me to discontinue the transdermal and begin using HCG at high doses. After two or three weeks I stopped using anything. Two weeks after that I was tested, and was shocked to see how low my level were; I thought there had been a mistake. Although I must say that I was feeling a bit run down at the time.

[colkurtz_spf]

IMPO, an HPTA-recovery protocol is clearly warranted.

Thank you for your input. I'm not sure that I clearly understand you. Do you mean to re-establish baseline levels?

[colkurtz_spf]

Yes, to restart your own system. Then you wouldn't have to be on TRT in order to be healthy.

Thank you very much for your advice.

[Rage (SoCal)]

Awesome postings colkurtz and Dr. John. Thank you both.

[colkurtz_spf]

These are the results from the labs my doctor ordered. At this point I was on 5,000 IUs of HCG twice a week for a period of 10 weeks. I haven't spoken with him yet, but he is aware that I wish to reduce the dosage.

My doctor reviewed my labs with me on Friday and was pleased. He asked me to continue with the high HCG dose for another 8 weeks. Of course I expressed concern. He pointed out that my estradiol, DHT and PSA levels were all in good ranges. I was told that my test levels will be lower on the next report, and that by the end of the year he will have me maintaining high test levels on 2000 IUs or less per week.

I've agreed to continue with him.