My Cenegenics Experience

colkurtz_spf

colkurtz_spf

The horror
Awards
1
  • Established
Good call on stating this forum B5150. I will use this to update my Cenegenics experience.

Last week they sent a nurse to draw blood at my home. She drew six vials. Eight weeks prior to that I stopped transdermal test. I was put on 5000 IUs of HCG for four weeks and then off for four before drawing blood. I also fasted for 12 hours. Since then I have been back on the HCG and feel pretty good. My energy level is high, my libido is high and I'm sleeping well.

Next Friday morning I'll be checking into a hospital for extensive testing and a consultation with the doctor.

I'll keep everyone posted.
 
motiv8er

motiv8er

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
We're looking foward to your progress. :)
 
colkurtz_spf

colkurtz_spf

The horror
Awards
1
  • Established
We're looking foward to your progress. :)
My visit started Friday morning at Florida Atlantic University’s MRI unit. That’s where I had my bone density test. Upon arrival I was greeted by Dr Willix’s assistant. She stayed with me and then I followed her back to the main office at Cenegenics. When I arrived, another assistant welcomed me; there was a sign in the waiting room with my personal greeting. Apparently the day was set aside for me. They prepared a nicely appointed room with a laptop, fruit, water and an assortment of teas. A menu was waiting on the table for my lunch selection. And in that room my first test began. On the laptop I went through a series of mental tests ranging form memory to response time.

Later I moved into the examining room for weight and height measurements. For some reason I measured only 6’2.5. That last time, which was several years ago I measured 6’4.” My weight was 257lb, and the body fat tests revealed 20% body fat – higher than I expected. I was given a strength test and flexibility test. I did well on both. Then my blood pressure was taken and I was given an EKG. It was 119/65 with a resting pulse rate of 60. My EKG showed no abnormalities. They served me a wonderful lunch followed by a video explaining insulin levels and degenerative disease before my consultation and final exam with the doctor.

Dr Willix was cardiovascular doctor and thoracic surgeon. He gave up a lucrative practice years ago to pursue preventative medicine. He studied Ayurvedic medicine and is also a shaman. His decision was not popular in the medical community at that time. He also competed regularly in Iron Man events. At 66 he is in remarkable condition. His exam was thorough, and included eye, reflexes, hernia and rectal. He also examined my tongue which surprised me. Since I was young I’ve had a pronounced geographic tongue. He explained that it was due to poor intestinal exorbtion, and probably a cause of demineralization in my spine and hips – nothing severe, but slightly in the high range for my age. I found it hard to believe, so he pulled out an Ayurvedic chart that showed my aberration. He prescribed probiotics and yogurt, and I was told to avoid sodas because they rob bones of calcium.

My blood panels, which were extensive (I gave 6 vials of blood after a 12 hour fast) looked very good. My glucose panel showed no sign of impending diabetes. My thyroid levels were good. Kidney and liver functions were very good. My HDL was a little low. My test levels had crashed as expected and my estradiol was very low.

Prior to my visit, I listed all of the supplements I take along with diet and workout logs (both weights and cardio). The doctor explained that Niacin can lower both good and bad cholesterols and suggested I take 1200 mgs of red rice yeast at bedtime instead. He prescribed 75 mgs of DHEA to be taken in the morning and 5000 IUs of HCG twice a week for the next eight weeks. He will follow up with a blood test to see how I respond and then set my maintenance dosage. Based on my panels and exam he thinks I will respond well. He is keeping me on 7.5 IUs of HGH per week. My current IGF level is 300. He told me to keep taking the rest of my supplements and not change dosage with the exception of EFAs. He wants me to make sure my omegas have EPA of 2- 3 grams. As an Ayurvedic doctor, he was impressed with the USPLab supplements I have been taking. I was glad because they make me feel pretty good and I don't want to give them up. I promised myself and the doctor to give this at least six months. Although I’m somewhat skeptical (as usual) I want to give it a fair chance.

He put me on a low GI diet and revised my workout plan. I will be doing cardio 5 days per week. My heart rate will have to be between 140 and 150 beats per minute for at least 20 minutes during each session. No overall duration was mentioned. He wants me to hit only one body part per week. There will be 7 sets per exercise with a pyramiding rep range between 6 and 12 reps. Rests between sets will only be for one minute. He wants me to maintain this workout until I reach a target weight of 220lbs. Later I will be able to resume lower reps with longer rests for strength.

I’m sure that I left out quite a bit. The doctor will be monitoring my progress, and I will post updates and answer any questions.
 

jcam222

Board Supporter
Awards
1
  • Established
Very interesting log. I am a bit taken aback by the hcg dosages that high over and eight week period of time. I was under the impression that prolonged dosages that high could cause irreversible damage for natural LH production? I will stay tuned her for sure. At somepoint I can lay out my current HRT as well.
 
colkurtz_spf

colkurtz_spf

The horror
Awards
1
  • Established
Very interesting log. I am a bit taken aback by the hcg dosages that high over and eight week period of time. I was under the impression that prolonged dosages that high could cause irreversible damage for natural LH production? I will stay tuned her for sure. At somepoint I can lay out my current HRT as well.

I was worried about the same (LH), but the doctor assures me that production would return to normal. This treatment isn't for everyone. It won't work for those whose testes can no longer produce.
 
colkurtz_spf

colkurtz_spf

The horror
Awards
1
  • Established
Thanks colkurtz_spf
B5150, it is my pleasure. Thank you for creating this forum. I predict it will grow in time. This subjuct is desperately needed.

I would like to add to jcam222's response that my doseage would have been far less if I hadn't already been on therapy.
 

jcam222

Board Supporter
Awards
1
  • Established
Thanks for the answer and update colkurtz_spf. I will definately be watching your log with interest. Thanks for taking the time to share the info with us.
 
colkurtz_spf

colkurtz_spf

The horror
Awards
1
  • Established
IMPO, you should never inject more than 500IU at a time. Probably 250 is even better.

A couple of months ago I had lunch with Dr. Eugene Shippen (we are going to meet in a couple weeks to discuss a new project). He drew a chart on a paper napkin which plateaued. He called this "testosterone response to HCG". I asked him where he feels the plateau lies. He said "somewhere less than 500IU". Next he extended two lines upward. One for estrogen, the other progesterone.

If you think of it, there are only just so many Leydig cells to stimulate. I'm sure you have all seen that study where 125IU HCG brought T levels to within 7% of baseline in completely HPTA-suppressed men.
Thank you for your post. I've been out of town on vacation for the past ten days and regret not being able to respond sooner.

I've followed your protocol for post cycle therapy and it for me it worked well. Until recently I had not injected more than 500 IUs at any one time. I will be on the current protocol prescribed by Cenegenics for another 5 or 6 weeks until my blood is tested, after which I assume the dose will taper off to 250IUs. I've been told it will be much less, but not how much less. What you say makes sense, and I suppose that there may be a lot of waste in my dosage.

I will post updates.
 
colkurtz_spf

colkurtz_spf

The horror
Awards
1
  • Established
The results are in.

I hope to have my labs back next week. I'll post the results.

These are the results from the labs my doctor ordered. At this point I was on 5,000 IUs of HCG twice a week for a period of 10 weeks. I haven't spoken with him yet, but he is aware that I wish to reduce the dosage.
 
colkurtz_spf

colkurtz_spf

The horror
Awards
1
  • Established
These are the results from the labs my doctor ordered. At this point I was on 5,000 IUs of HCG twice a week for a period of 10 weeks. I haven't spoken with him yet, but he is aware that I wish to reduce the dosage.

I think it's important to mention that I came off a one year transdermal cycle in June, and that my levels had crashed. Prior to TRT my total test was 476. The transdermal had me up to 1711.

I hope to speak with my doctor this week. I'll post his recommendations.
 
colkurtz_spf

colkurtz_spf

The horror
Awards
1
  • Established
Did he try to restore your system first?

Even if not, because of your HCG use, probably it would be a good idea.
We first spoke around the end of May. Before our initial exam and bloodwork, he told me to discontinue the transdermal and begin using HCG at high doses. After two or three weeks I stopped using anything. Two weeks after that I was tested, and was shocked to see how low my level were; I thought there had been a mistake. Although I must say that I was feeling a bit run down at the time.
 
colkurtz_spf

colkurtz_spf

The horror
Awards
1
  • Established
IMPO, an HPTA-recovery protocol is clearly warranted.
Thank you for your input. I'm not sure that I clearly understand you. Do you mean to re-establish baseline levels?
 

Rage (SoCal)

Board Supporter
Awards
1
  • Established
Awesome postings colkurtz and Dr. John. Thank you both.
 
colkurtz_spf

colkurtz_spf

The horror
Awards
1
  • Established
These are the results from the labs my doctor ordered. At this point I was on 5,000 IUs of HCG twice a week for a period of 10 weeks. I haven't spoken with him yet, but he is aware that I wish to reduce the dosage.
My doctor reviewed my labs with me on Friday and was pleased. He asked me to continue with the high HCG dose for another 8 weeks. Of course I expressed concern. He pointed out that my estradiol, DHT and PSA levels were all in good ranges. I was told that my test levels will be lower on the next report, and that by the end of the year he will have me maintaining high test levels on 2000 IUs or less per week.

I've agreed to continue with him.
 
Last edited:
colkurtz_spf

colkurtz_spf

The horror
Awards
1
  • Established
Did you mean that as written?

Have you had breakdown of Estrogens to include Estrone done? How about Total Estrogens and Progesterone?

On what day was your lab assay compared to injection day?

Dosages that high have been shown, without a doubt, to down regulate Leydig cell LH receptors. And biphasic T response--more evidence of induced hormonal mayhem.

I can tell you that there just isn't anyone at the cutting edge who employs dosing such as that anymore.

It might be a good idea to consider tapering that HCG right down, perhaps adding in a SERM, to see if your system will recover.
The lab was preformed two days after an injection. I had complete panels on the last test.

Are you saying that my leydig cells are being burned out?
I've checked my protocol with the medical staff at Cenegenics. I'm not a doctor and assumed they are on the leading edge.
 
colkurtz_spf

colkurtz_spf

The horror
Awards
1
  • Established
Can you check them for the three assays?

I can only share with you MPO, if you know what I mean. AND what I have heard the other top docs in the field say. Did you happen to read my retelling of the conversation I had with the legendary Dr. Eugene Shippen regarding HCG dosing on this Forum?

Again, and I stress this, I'd sure like to see if you could become non-TRT dependent. The HCG therapy you have been on will have helped you in this.

And did you mean to say your doctor told you that your T output will be dropping?
I can't tell you how much I appreciate your input on this.

My doctor told me my test levels would be lower in eight weeks. He is OK with me scaling back the dosage if I wish, but doesn't see the need. I'm sure I can ask for complete panels as well. I could tell him tomorrow that I am reducing my dose to 1500 IUs per week.
 
Last edited:
colkurtz_spf

colkurtz_spf

The horror
Awards
1
  • Established
Can you check them for the three assays?

I can only share with you MPO, if you know what I mean. AND what I have heard the other top docs in the field say. Did you happen to read my retelling of the conversation I had with the legendary Dr. Eugene Shippen regarding HCG dosing on this Forum?

Again, and I stress this, I'd sure like to see if you could become non-TRT dependent. The HCG therapy you have been on will have helped you in this.

And did you mean to say your doctor told you that your T output will be dropping?

I think I will need another draw for those three assays. Nothing would please me more than to be free of trt. Do you think my dosage should be reduced over time or discontinued immediately? What levels do you like to see testosterone at?
I hope you don't mind me asking.
 
colkurtz_spf

colkurtz_spf

The horror
Awards
1
  • Established
It gets kind of sticky here, but I do not want to try to direct your medicla care through this Forum. I am just trying to suggest a couple of things whhc may benefit you--and the rest of the members here.

If T levels admittedly drop over time when HCG is administered at such high dosages, what does that tell us?

I hasten to add that we cannot expect every physician to have the time to keep up with what is going on at the cutting edge. We all do the best we can.
I appreciate your suggestions and will keep posting my choices and results here on this forum.

Thank you.
 
colkurtz_spf

colkurtz_spf

The horror
Awards
1
  • Established
colkurtz,

How have things been progressing?
So far so good. My dosage has been reduced by 60% and my T levels remain the same.

This summer will mark the anniversary of my treatment. I plan to post my results. I feel great, but still not convinced. I have doubts about long-term effects. Soon I will have to make a decision.
 
colkurtz_spf

colkurtz_spf

The horror
Awards
1
  • Established
What does that tell us?

Did you have Estrogen, progesterone, and SHBG monitored along the way?
Only estrogen. They don't believe in monitoring SHBG - not sure why they omit progesterone. I sent my doc researsch showing the importance of Bioavailable T and SHBG. It didn't change things.
 
JanSz

JanSz

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
So far so good. My dosage has been reduced by 60% and my T levels remain the same.

This summer will mark the anniversary of my treatment. I plan to post my results. I feel great, but still not convinced. I have doubts about long-term effects. Soon I will have to make a decision.
What would convice you?
Have you felt great for most of the year or this is just short (insignificant??) event?
 
colkurtz_spf

colkurtz_spf

The horror
Awards
1
  • Established
What would convice you?
Have you felt great for most of the year or this is just short (insignificant??) event?
Sorry I did not respond sooner. I've been out of town.

I suppose I have no right to complain. This past year I have felt better than I have in decades. Still, I worry about the long-term effects of this treatment. One year is a short time frame for me. Regardless of my results in June I plan to get a second opinion.
 
motiv8er

motiv8er

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
Sorry I did not respond sooner. I've been out of town.

I suppose I have no right to complain. This past year I have felt better than I have in decades. Still, I worry about the long-term effects of this treatment. One year is a short time frame for me. Regardless of my results in June I plan to get a second opinion.
Understood. WE get one body, one life. Its a shame to waste it one way or another. Then again, when I check out, I hope I shatter into a million pieces; cause there wont be sh!t left on me to work!! I used it all up in this life.
 
colkurtz_spf

colkurtz_spf

The horror
Awards
1
  • Established
Understood. WE get one body, one life. Its a shame to waste it one way or another. Then again, when I check out, I hope I shatter into a million pieces; cause there wont be sh!t left on me to work!! I used it all up in this life.

That's a good philosophy. Unfortunately as we get older we start to think about the quality of life. Being bound by a wheel chair or attached to a colostomy bag is not the most appealing lifestyle. It's not how long you live, but how you live it long.
 

plymouth city

Banned
Awards
1
  • Established
That's a good philosophy. Unfortunately as we get older we start to think about the quality of life. Being bound by a wheel chair or attached to a colostomy bag is not the most appealing lifestyle. It's not how long you live, but how you live it long.
Beautifully said. At 27, my daredevil stunt days are OVER. Ive always been a risk taker, but now my risks are in other ventures, like business/money and other risks that don't involve anything physical. :woohoo:
 
motiv8er

motiv8er

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
That's a good philosophy. Unfortunately as we get older we start to think about the quality of life. Being bound by a wheel chair or attached to a colostomy bag is not the most appealing lifestyle. It's not how long you live, but how you live it long.
Agreed. However, this is my 61 year old father take on it. And why he hopes just to bike off a cliff when it is his time. For the above mentioned reasons, but also why his mental state is his own. I am being very serious. You could say he's gonna rock until the wheels roll off!!
 

plymouth city

Banned
Awards
1
  • Established
Sorry I did not respond sooner. I've been out of town.

I suppose I have no right to complain. This past year I have felt better than I have in decades. Still, I worry about the long-term effects of this treatment. One year is a short time frame for me. Regardless of my results in June I plan to get a second opinion.
Whats your current drug regimine?
 
colkurtz_spf

colkurtz_spf

The horror
Awards
1
  • Established
Agreed. However, this is my 61 year old father take on it. And why he hopes just to bike off a cliff when it is his time. For the above mentioned reasons, but also why his mental state is his own. I am being very serious. You could say he's gonna rock until the wheels roll off!!
It's a good philosophy, and one that I subscribe to.

When I was not much older than you (31) I was diagnosed with a spinal condition that was supposed to paralyze me by 50. Of course there was a surgical solution - one that I ignored. At 39 I was unable to walk for a period of six weeks. A Rumanian miracle worker was able to massage me to my feet again. After that I hit the gym. It was difficult. I couldn't bend to tie my shoes let alone perform a squat. Today (10 years later) I dead lift 465 from the ground for six reps and bench 225 for 19.

I believe in getting as much out of life as possible, and in my mind it means taking care of my body. The parable about ending your life in a worn out body VS a well-preserved one is actually quite old. One could take it as literal, but I prefer to think of it as a metaphor for getting the most out of life.
 
colkurtz_spf

colkurtz_spf

The horror
Awards
1
  • Established
Whats your current drug regimine?
I'm currently using HCG 2000 IUs twice per week and taking 1 MG of Arimidex 3 times per week. My dosage is constantly decreasing and my test numbers keep going up, and that is making me nervous.

Currently my total test is over 1400 and free at 425. My estradiol is at 56, but I don't feel any of the associated sides. My libido is very high. I started last June at 10,000 IUs per week. I have a call with my doc next week; we should be moving down to 2000 IUs or less per week.

I thinking about a consultation with Dr. Shabana, but he doesn't run the same panels as Dr. John and so I'm reluctant.
 

plymouth city

Banned
Awards
1
  • Established
Wholy **** your on alot of drugs! 4000UI of hCG per week? Its been proven that testical function is best restored at 500IU - 750 IU per week.

And 3mg of arimidex? Wow.

How much T? Any GH?

Your TT of 1400 is crazy bro. I would think that would NOT be safe long term. I think its best to be conservative with it and shoot for ranges that a normal male 24 - 30 has, shooting for ranges in the 600's and a little higher.
 
Last edited:

t-bone2

Member
Awards
1
  • Established
At 39 I was unable to walk for a period of six weeks. A Rumanian miracle worker was able to massage me to my feet again. After that I hit the gym. It was difficult. I couldn't bend to tie my shoes let alone perform a squat. Today (10 years later) I dead lift 465 from the ground for six reps and bench 225 for 19.
Very couragous. Lots of folks would have given up. 465 for 6 is respectable at any age.
 
JanSz

JanSz

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
I'm currently using HCG 2000 IUs twice per week and taking 1 MG of Arimidex 3 times per week. My dosage is constantly decreasing and my test numbers keep going up, and that is making me nervous.

Currently my total test is over 1400 and free at 425. My estradiol is at 56, but I don't feel any of the associated sides. My libido is very high. I started last June at 10,000 IUs per week. I have a call with my doc next week; we should be moving down to 2000 IUs or less per week.

I thinking about a consultation with Dr. Shabana, but he doesn't run the same panels as Dr. John and so I'm reluctant.
Whatewer you are doing is working for you.
Cannot argue with success.
Have you in any of the previous posts provided description of your self your complains, treatment you have got. History of treatment and possiby reason that you doctor did what he did.

If you did, please post a link to this posts if not, I would appreciate if you provide this information.
 
colkurtz_spf

colkurtz_spf

The horror
Awards
1
  • Established
Whatewer you are doing is working for you.
Cannot argue with success.
Have you in any of the previous posts provided description of your self your complains, treatment you have got. History of treatment and possiby reason that you doctor did what he did.

If you did, please post a link to this posts if not, I would appreciate if you provide this information.
I started this thread. In the beginning I posted some intial blood test results and I think I may have given some background. I plan to update this the end of June.
 

hardasnails1973

Registered User
Awards
1
  • Established
I started this thread. In the beginning I posted some intial blood test results and I think I may have given some background. I plan to update this the end of June.

i talked to Dr silverman and no where on there webste does it lists prices, but for 2500 you get the program. WTF does that consist of ? what tests and how evasive are their testing? If nothing is covered by insurance. I mean my insurance could pay for all the testing detoxification, mineral anayalsis ect, what they charge 2500 for? just a consultation?
 

cpeil2

Member
Awards
1
  • Established
i talked to Dr silverman and no where on there webste does it lists prices, but for 2500 you get the program. WTF does that consist of ? what tests and how evasive are their testing? If nothing is covered by insurance. I mean my insurance could pay for all the testing detoxification, mineral anayalsis ect, what they charge 2500 for? just a consultation?
Yep, it's a day-long thing - all sorts of testing. At the end of the day, you meet with a physician and they recommend a program: supps, HRT, diet and exercise. They like to supply all of the supps and the hormones, but I don't know if it is required. They operate, as most anti-aging physicians do, on a pay-as-you-go basis. They will not bill third party payors, although they will provide the docs you need in order to submit your own claim.

They used to be cutting-edge. But, as Dr. John has indicated, the field has sort of passed them by.
 

hardasnails1973

Registered User
Awards
1
  • Established
Yep, it's a day-long thing - all sorts of testing. At the end of the day, you meet with a physician and they recommend a program: supps, HRT, diet and exercise. They like to supply all of the supps and the hormones, but I don't know if it is required. They operate, as most anti-aging physicians do, on a pay-as-you-go basis. They will not bill third party payors, although they will provide the docs you need in order to submit your own claim.

They used to be cutting-edge. But, as Dr. John has indicated, the field has sort of passed them by.
Have HCG, tcreame, DIM. pregenonlone creame, may be arimdex will travel :icon_lol:

Thats why i like dr john approach whole lot better..I am starting to see the method behind his madness. Using the pregnenolone cream which body can use to convert to what it needs. More so it converts to progesterone when entering the through the skin providing the building blocks and using it raise progesterone and even possibly testosterone, dhea, while choking off the estrogen metabolism with the DIM if need be. I have always loved this mentality give the body what id needs and let it rebalance it self..
 

biker340

Member
Awards
0
i talked to Dr silverman and no where on there webste does it lists prices, but for 2500 you get the program. WTF does that consist of ? what tests and how evasive are their testing? If nothing is covered by insurance. I mean my insurance could pay for all the testing detoxification, mineral anayalsis ect, what they charge 2500 for? just a consultation?
Hey,, they have to pay for the ads that appear in the sports section of my daily newspaper.. My 11year old son gets a kick out of seeing the, "old muscle man" in the photo:icon_lol:
 

Concerned1963

New member
Awards
0
"They used to be cutting-edge. But, as Dr. John has indicated, the field has sort of passed them by."

I have been concidering this program and have found this post very intresting. Could somebody please expand on the comment made above. What programs are more advanced then them?

Colkurtz_spf, its been almost a year. Are you happy with the results this far and would you do it again? Is the program worth the price of admission?

I am not a body builder just a guy who use to be an athlete who as let him self go and am looking for a program to help me get back in shape and start some good habits.

Thanks for all the comments so far.
 
JanSz

JanSz

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
"They used to be cutting-edge. But, as Dr. John has indicated, the field has sort of passed them by."

I have been concidering this program and have found this post very intresting. Could somebody please expand on the comment made above. What programs are more advanced then them?

Colkurtz_spf, its been almost a year. Are you happy with the results this far and would you do it again? Is the program worth the price of admission?

I am not a body builder just a guy who use to be an athlete who as let him self go and am looking for a program to help me get back in shape and start some good habits.

Thanks for all the comments so far.
Personally I would prefer overall health care, not only specific TRT and nothing else.
In post 09-05-2006, 01:48 PM
colkurtz_spf
there is pdf file with tests.
For the tons of money he is spending they could have checked few more things in his blood even if they are not relevant to erection.
 

cpeil2

Member
Awards
1
  • Established
"They used to be cutting-edge. But, as Dr. John has indicated, the field has sort of passed them by."

I have been concidering this program and have found this post very intresting. Could somebody please expand on the comment made above. What programs are more advanced then them?

Colkurtz_spf, its been almost a year. Are you happy with the results this far and would you do it again? Is the program worth the price of admission?

I am not a body builder just a guy who use to be an athlete who as let him self go and am looking for a program to help me get back in shape and start some good habits.

Thanks for all the comments so far.

They see themselves as leaders and standard-setters in the field of anti-aging medicine. Meanwhile, individual practitioners like Dr. John and Marianco are adding to the knowledge base and developing more refined methods which the Cenegenics practitioners tend not to pay much attention to.


A good example of this is Dr. John's TRT protocol that combines testosterone and small doses of hCG. Cenegenics also uses hCG in TRT, but as a monotherapy in very large doses- which are unneccesary at the very least, and possibly harmful.


Marianco, who I don't believe posts to this board, is a psychiatrist who is single-handedly developing a new medical specialty - neuroendocrinology - that studies the interplay between the endocrine, nervous and immune systems.
 

plymouth city

Banned
Awards
1
  • Established
Its not any specific groups or programs that are passing them by, but new and more advanced methods/drugs/dose and tweaks to already existing plans by individual doctors working together that are passing the cenegics people by.
 
colkurtz_spf

colkurtz_spf

The horror
Awards
1
  • Established
"They used to be cutting-edge. But, as Dr. John has indicated, the field has sort of passed them by."

I have been concidering this program and have found this post very intresting. Could somebody please expand on the comment made above. What programs are more advanced then them?

Colkurtz_spf, its been almost a year. Are you happy with the results this far and would you do it again? Is the program worth the price of admission?

I am not a body builder just a guy who use to be an athlete who as let him self go and am looking for a program to help me get back in shape and start some good habits.

Thanks for all the comments so far.
The results have been good, but I'm not happy with their panel choices, and I worry about their methods. My treatment has consisted of HCG only, and recently the addition of Arimidex to combat estrogen. The results from my last draw showed total test at 1400 with free at 425 and estradiol at 62. My protocol had been HCG 4000 IUs per week prior to the draw. I was using 10,000 IUs when the first panel was posted.

My contract with Cenegenics is up the end of next month, and I have been in contact with Dr. John's office. Currently I'm weaning myself off HRT. I have reduced HCG to 500 IUs per week and will be completely finished by the end of this month. My next draw will be June 12. I'm curious to see how I'm going to feel. I feel great now, but I'm aware that will probably change.

Fortunately I have never had ED. My problem was lack of energy and an increase in body fat. It wasn't until I had a bone density test that I discovered my Oteopedia. Before Cenegenics I used an online doc who prescribed testosterone cream and nothing else. I was on for a year. I started with a baseline total of 475 for total testosterone, but don't remember the free.

I will keep the board posted with my progress.
 
JanSz

JanSz

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
The results have been good, but I'm not happy with their panel choices, and I worry about their methods. My treatment has consisted of HCG only, and recently the addition of Arimidex to combat estrogen. The results from my last draw showed total test at 1400 with free at 425 and estradiol at 62. My protocol had been HCG 4000 IUs per week prior to the draw. I was using 10,000 IUs when the first panel was posted.

My contract with Cenegenics is up the end of next month, and I have been in contact with Dr. John's office. Currently I'm weaning myself off HRT. I have reduced HCG to 500 IUs per week and will be completely finished by the end of this month. My next draw will be June 12. I'm curious to see how I'm going to feel. I feel great now, but I'm aware that will probably change.

Fortunately I have never had ED. My problem was lack of energy and an increase in body fat. It wasn't until I had a bone density test that I discovered my Oteopedia. Before Cenegenics I used an online doc who prescribed testosterone cream and nothing else. I was on for a year. I started with a baseline total of 475 for total testosterone, but don't remember the free.

I will keep the board posted with my progress.
4000/week=571/day probably too much
500/week=71/day probably not enough
100/day supposedly is enough or slightly more.
There was link to research floating around.

You must have very good testis, tt=1400
Your estrodial is high at 62
but since your testosterone is 100% your own, possibly it is what you body needs.

I would do (free, bioavailable and Total testosterone) test at Quest.
Adjust HCG so you are at the top of range of either freeT or BioT, and the other is wherewer it falls.
 

Similar threads


Top