My Cenegenics Experience

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  1. Good Advice .... Thanks


  2. Quote Originally Posted by darkblue1 View Post
    Didnt you go for any surgery for curing hypothlamus disorder
    My Hypothalmus does not produce an adequate level of LH for my testosterone production. My baseline is 3.9. For some that may be enough, but not for me. I'm not sure that brain surgery is the answer. My deficiency could be due to aging or environmental factors. I didn't have this problem when I was younger, and in any case my therapy is working.
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  3. colonel kurtz,
    with a resting heart rate of 60bpm, you must be really fit. do you do lots of cardio ?


    Quote Originally Posted by colkurtz_spf View Post
    My visit started Friday morning at Florida Atlantic University’s MRI unit. That’s where I had my bone density test. Upon arrival I was greeted by Dr Willix’s assistant. She stayed with me and then I followed her back to the main office at Cenegenics. When I arrived, another assistant welcomed me; there was a sign in the waiting room with my personal greeting. Apparently the day was set aside for me. They prepared a nicely appointed room with a laptop, fruit, water and an assortment of teas. A menu was waiting on the table for my lunch selection. And in that room my first test began. On the laptop I went through a series of mental tests ranging form memory to response time.

    Later I moved into the examining room for weight and height measurements. For some reason I measured only 6’2.5. That last time, which was several years ago I measured 6’4.” My weight was 257lb, and the body fat tests revealed 20% body fat – higher than I expected. I was given a strength test and flexibility test. I did well on both. Then my blood pressure was taken and I was given an EKG. It was 119/65 with a resting pulse rate of 60. My EKG showed no abnormalities. They served me a wonderful lunch followed by a video explaining insulin levels and degenerative disease before my consultation and final exam with the doctor.

    Dr Willix was cardiovascular doctor and thoracic surgeon. He gave up a lucrative practice years ago to pursue preventative medicine. He studied Ayurvedic medicine and is also a shaman. His decision was not popular in the medical community at that time. He also competed regularly in Iron Man events. At 66 he is in remarkable condition. His exam was thorough, and included eye, reflexes, hernia and rectal. He also examined my tongue which surprised me. Since I was young I’ve had a pronounced geographic tongue. He explained that it was due to poor intestinal exorbtion, and probably a cause of demineralization in my spine and hips – nothing severe, but slightly in the high range for my age. I found it hard to believe, so he pulled out an Ayurvedic chart that showed my aberration. He prescribed probiotics and yogurt, and I was told to avoid sodas because they rob bones of calcium.

    My blood panels, which were extensive (I gave 6 vials of blood after a 12 hour fast) looked very good. My glucose panel showed no sign of impending diabetes. My thyroid levels were good. Kidney and liver functions were very good. My HDL was a little low. My test levels had crashed as expected and my estradiol was very low.

    Prior to my visit, I listed all of the supplements I take along with diet and workout logs (both weights and cardio). The doctor explained that Niacin can lower both good and bad cholesterols and suggested I take 1200 mgs of red rice yeast at bedtime instead. He prescribed 75 mgs of DHEA to be taken in the morning and 5000 IUs of HCG twice a week for the next eight weeks. He will follow up with a blood test to see how I respond and then set my maintenance dosage. Based on my panels and exam he thinks I will respond well. He is keeping me on 7.5 IUs of HGH per week. My current IGF level is 300. He told me to keep taking the rest of my supplements and not change dosage with the exception of EFAs. He wants me to make sure my omegas have EPA of 2- 3 grams. As an Ayurvedic doctor, he was impressed with the USPLab supplements I have been taking. I was glad because they make me feel pretty good and I don't want to give them up. I promised myself and the doctor to give this at least six months. Although I’m somewhat skeptical (as usual) I want to give it a fair chance.

    He put me on a low GI diet and revised my workout plan. I will be doing cardio 5 days per week. My heart rate will have to be between 140 and 150 beats per minute for at least 20 minutes during each session. No overall duration was mentioned. He wants me to hit only one body part per week. There will be 7 sets per exercise with a pyramiding rep range between 6 and 12 reps. Rests between sets will only be for one minute. He wants me to maintain this workout until I reach a target weight of 220lbs. Later I will be able to resume lower reps with longer rests for strength.

    I’m sure that I left out quite a bit. The doctor will be monitoring my progress, and I will post updates and answer any questions.

  4. Quote Originally Posted by living2die View Post
    colonel kurtz,
    with a resting heart rate of 60bpm, you must be really fit. do you do lots of cardio ?
    I do three 30 minute cardio sessions per week, and play three hours (one hour on three different days) of hard tennis against good players who are much younger than me. Tennis will make your heart beat right through your chest if you're any good. I did my first pro tour in '75.

  5. Very interesting information. We are going to see a doctor in Northern CA for HRT, but it is incredibly expensive. The tests for women cost a bit more than men -- it was 1002.00 per person for lab work and initial consultations. The charge for the 6 month contract for oversight plus the first 5 weeks of medications was about $1950 per person. We are getting GH, hormone creams, pills (Pregnenolone, DHEA, thyroid and adrenal support). I'm not sure how this compares to other plans, but it is pretty expensive for us. Almost 3000.00 each. Does that seem reasonable?
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by colkurtz_spf View Post
    My Hypothalmus does not produce an adequate level of LH for my testosterone production. My baseline is 3.9. For some that may be enough, but not for me. I'm not sure that brain surgery is the answer. My deficiency could be due to aging or environmental factors. I didn't have this problem when I was younger, and in any case my therapy is working.
    My LH is 1.9 and FSH is like only .9, but somehow I'm sill able to produce midrange TT and FT levels which I think would be an anomaly. I'm still trying to figure this one out. My main problem is lack of libido and adrenal issues. I have tried HCG which I respond well to, but still no libido. Just wondering if my low LH & FSH is still a problem, despite ok test levels.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by kalyson View Post
    Very interesting information. We are going to see a doctor in Northern CA for HRT, but it is incredibly expensive. The tests for women cost a bit more than men -- it was 1002.00 per person for lab work and initial consultations. The charge for the 6 month contract for oversight plus the first 5 weeks of medications was about $1950 per person. We are getting GH, hormone creams, pills (Pregnenolone, DHEA, thyroid and adrenal support). I'm not sure how this compares to other plans, but it is pretty expensive for us. Almost 3000.00 each. Does that seem reasonable?
    The initial blood work and consultation seems reasonable, but the six month fees seem high. I paid 1350 per period.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by health4life24 View Post
    My LH is 1.9 and FSH is like only .9, but somehow I'm sill able to produce midrange TT and FT levels which I think would be an anomaly. I'm still trying to figure this one out. My main problem is lack of libido and adrenal issues. I have tried HCG which I respond well to, but still no libido. Just wondering if my low LH & FSH is still a problem, despite ok test levels.
    What were you numbers before and after HCG, and how long were you on for?

  9. Quote Originally Posted by colkurtz_spf View Post
    What were you numbers before and after HCG, and how long were you on for?
    Those were my numbers before HCG. I don't know what they were after because I didn't do a test. Just went by how I felt. Was able to work out again and had huge boost in energy. I felt I responded well, but still had libido issues. I did do a Rheins after 10 days of stopping HCG if that counts for anything. TT was near top of range.

  10. Quote Originally Posted by colkurtz_spf View Post
    The initial blood work and consultation seems reasonable, but the six month fees seem high. I paid 1350 per period.
    So that included all your meds, too? The oversight fee for 6 mos was 1250 for one but 1000 for the second person in a couple. The difference was the meds for 5 weeks (for each person).

  11. Quote Originally Posted by health4life24 View Post
    Those were my numbers before HCG. I don't know what they were after because I didn't do a test. Just went by how I felt. Was able to work out again and had huge boost in energy. I felt I responded well, but still had libido issues. I did do a Rheins after 10 days of stopping HCG if that counts for anything. TT was near top of range.
    It would be hard to comment without knowing how much you injected and the frequency. Also labs are important. HCG can increase E2 which would diminish your desire for sex.

  12. How long did it take to notice a difference on HGH? We are setting the pen to .2

  13. Quote Originally Posted by kalyson View Post
    How long did it take to notice a difference on HGH? We are setting the pen to .2
    .2 isn't very much at all, but I'm sure your doctor has his reasons.

    I noticed results in 30 days, and my condition improved over time. The most dramatic changes came in 6 months. The results stay with you for quite some time after you stop using it. Even though my doctor recommends daily injections I take 2 days off per week and one month off every six.

  14. Quote Originally Posted by colkurtz_spf View Post
    It would be hard to comment without knowing how much you injected and the frequency. Also labs are important. HCG can increase E2 which would diminish your desire for sex.
    Total estrogens were near top of range. I have used an AI many times before though. Did nothing for libido. Just gave me more energy and clarity of mind. The HCG I used was a homeopathic oral version. Put some drops under tounge, felt it kicking in and working very well after about 10 minutes. I have no idea the amount of IU's it would equate to. I have used injectable to, but prefer the oral because it's easier to deal with and can also have it on me if need be.

    Here are my results if you want to take a look from a Rheins test.

  15. Quote Originally Posted by health4life24 View Post
    Total estrogens were near top of range. I have used an AI many times before though. Did nothing for libido. Just gave me more energy and clarity of mind. The HCG I used was a homeopathic oral version. Put some drops under tounge, felt it kicking in and working very well after about 10 minutes. I have no idea the amount of IU's it would equate to. I have used injectable to, but prefer the oral because it's easier to deal with and can also have it on me if need be.

    Here are my results if you want to take a look from a Rheins test.
    I'm not familiar with oral HCG. I'm talking to a lab that has developed lipid encapsulation for hormones. The medicine dissolves in the lower intestines bypassing the liver. To date they have used it for estrogen, low dose testosterone and oxytocin for women. They are waiting for materials to make a test run on HCG, and I'll be the lab rabbit. I plan to post the results here. I've been told this will also work with testosterone.

  16. Quote Originally Posted by beckerj View Post
    Thanks man ....

    I am gonna put out a general question ....

    How do we overcome the performance anxiety that we have when we start to get better ?

    I get so nervous when my other half wants to get busy .... Now if i am the one that is chasing it i am not so nervous ....
    I had the exact same issue. My doc suggested a tiny bit of Xanax prior to the event and it made all the difference in the world

  17. fascinating stuff colonel kurtz. i think i speak for everyone when i encourage you too start up a new thread, when you begin the therapy, posting your results, as well as the lab work which verifies the positive and negatives of the oral encapsulated hcg route.

    also, it seems like the medical community has is updating their hcg protocols for secondary hypogondism. according to this merck readout, as low as just over 700 IU are recommended as standard doses for secondary hypo's.
    http://www.merck.com/mmpe/sec17/ch227/ch227b.html

    Quote Originally Posted by colkurtz_spf View Post
    I'm not familiar with oral HCG. I'm talking to a lab that has developed lipid encapsulation for hormones. The medicine dissolves in the lower intestines bypassing the liver. To date they have used it for estrogen, low dose testosterone and oxytocin for women. They are waiting for materials to make a test run on HCG, and I'll be the lab rabbit. I plan to post the results here. I've been told this will also work with testosterone.

  18. Quote Originally Posted by living2die View Post
    fascinating stuff colonel kurtz. i think i speak for everyone when i encourage you too start up a new thread, when you begin the therapy, posting your results, as well as the lab work which verifies the positive and negatives of the oral encapsulated hcg route.

    also, it seems like the medical community has is updating their hcg protocols for secondary hypogondism. according to this merck readout, as low as just over 700 IU are recommended as standard doses for secondary hypo's.
    http://www.merck.com/mmpe/sec17/ch227/ch227b.html
    I plan to include liver values in the blood work to determine if indeed the liver is bypassed. It's not practical to suggest a standard dose for secondary hypogonadism as everyone is different.
    Last edited by colkurtz_spf; 02-17-2009 at 12:25 AM.

  19. I know you have probably said this before, but what is your weekly dose of HCG at?

    Are you still using +/- 2000 IU EW?
    What is your e2 at?
    What is your PROG at?
    Are you also using PREG TD and/or DHEA oral/TD ?
    Are you using arimidex?

    Respekt.

    Quote Originally Posted by colkurtz_spf View Post
    I plan to include liver values in the blood work to determine if indeed the liver is bypassed. It's not practical to suggest a standard dose for secondary hypogonadism as everyone is different.

  20. colkurtz this will be an awesome experiment. If hcg can be delivered orally, I'll probably jump back on the bandwagon quickly. Having to stick myself a couple of times per week is a major buzz kill. My numbers were pretty darn good at 250iu EOD. Please keep us updated and a new thread would be nice!

  21. Quote Originally Posted by living2die View Post
    I know you have probably said this before, but what is your weekly dose of HCG at?

    Are you still using +/- 2000 IU EW?
    What is your e2 at?
    What is your PROG at?
    Are you also using PREG TD and/or DHEA oral/TD ?
    Are you using arimidex?

    Respekt.
    Right now I'm doing 1500IUs E3D with .5 mg of Arimidex. Each morning I take 75 mg of DHEA. That is my usual protocol. I had been on 1000 E3D and these were the results:

    TT 948
    FT 197.4
    BT 405.9
    E2 24
    DHT 78
    DHEA 374

    My testosterone levels were lower at that dose and I felt the difference. I didn't test progesterone, but my range has always been good.

  22. Quote Originally Posted by thenxtgrt1 View Post
    colkurtz this will be an awesome experiment. If hcg can be delivered orally, I'll probably jump back on the bandwagon quickly. Having to stick myself a couple of times per week is a major buzz kill. My numbers were pretty darn good at 250iu EOD. Please keep us updated and a new thread would be nice!
    I'm still waiting for the pharmacy to get the materials...keep your fingers crossed. They say the same can be done with testosterone. From what I understand they make a low dose version for women. They have no requests for a male version so none has been produced. These people don't realize the potential demand.

  23. colkurtz,
    have you ever considered using PREG TD ? thematrix/hardasnails1973 advocates strongly for its use, especially for people like us are on hcg mono. hardasnails/thematrix thinks that PREG levels become depleted after chronic hcg usage. in my case, when i started using PREG TD, (i have used OTC LIFE FLO PREG as well as raw PREG powder administered in DMSO vehicle) i felt loads better than when i was on hcg alone. i feel so much better that i still feel just as good on 300-500 IU HCG EOD as I did on 500IU ED. also, i have much more energy.
    try a simple experiment and see for yourself.
    purchase some over the counter LIFE FLO brand PREG TD. use 2-3 pumps (total 30-45mg PREG). for me, i could feel the effects within 30 minutes.

    Quote Originally Posted by colkurtz_spf View Post
    Right now I'm doing 1500IUs E3D with .5 mg of Arimidex. Each morning I take 75 mg of DHEA. That is my usual protocol. I had been on 1000 E3D and these were the results:

    TT 948
    FT 197.4
    BT 405.9
    E2 24
    DHT 78
    DHEA 374

    My testosterone levels were lower at that dose and I felt the difference. I didn't test progesterone, but my range has always been good.

  24. also, using jansz's PREG/DHEA theory, you likely are in the normal/high-normal range of PREG. from jansz's experience, when his DHEA is high, his PREG is high. when his DHEA is low, his PREG is low. for you, PREG TD might not have as profound of an impact.

    RESPEKT


    Quote Originally Posted by colkurtz_spf View Post
    Right now I'm doing 1500IUs E3D with .5 mg of Arimidex. Each morning I take 75 mg of DHEA. That is my usual protocol. I had been on 1000 E3D and these were the results:

    TT 948
    FT 197.4
    BT 405.9
    E2 24
    DHT 78
    DHEA 374

    My testosterone levels were lower at that dose and I felt the difference. I didn't test progesterone, but my range has always been good.

  25. Quote Originally Posted by living2die View Post
    colkurtz,
    have you ever considered using PREG TD ? thematrix/hardasnails1973 advocates strongly for its use, especially for people like us are on hcg mono. hardasnails/thematrix thinks that PREG levels become depleted after chronic hcg usage. in my case, when i started using PREG TD, (i have used OTC LIFE FLO PREG as well as raw PREG powder administered in DMSO vehicle) i felt loads better than when i was on hcg alone. i feel so much better that i still feel just as good on 300-500 IU HCG EOD as I did on 500IU ED. also, i have much more energy.
    try a simple experiment and see for yourself.
    purchase some over the counter LIFE FLO brand PREG TD. use 2-3 pumps (total 30-45mg PREG). for me, i could feel the effects within 30 minutes.
    Thanks for the advice. I may try it in the future. I've also tried EOD shots of HCG but that didn't work well for me. My E2 went way up. I do better with less frequency. I like the HCG dose I'm now, and will post the results after I draw. I can't imagine feeling any better than I do now. I wish I felt this good in my 30s.
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