My Cenegenics Experience

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  1. You are the resident expert on these types of issues, Jan, but I am fairly confident I will bust 200 FT on 2k IUs of HCG (600 IUs EOD) and ~1.5 mgs of Arnastrozole.


  2. That's a good question. Maybe the answer depends on the individual. FT at 160 should be enough for anyone. I feel good at 233, but felt better in the 300 range. I didn't see much of an added benefit at 425. It only raised my estrogen level.
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by colkurtz_spf View Post
    That's a good question. Maybe the answer depends on the individual. FT at 160 should be enough for anyone. I feel good at 233, but felt better in the 300 range. I didn't see much of an added benefit at 425. It only raised my estrogen level.
    Solid information, thank you.

    .

  4. So if ones issues was varicocele the HCG treatment would not be advisable correct ?

    Thanks
    Jason

  5. Quote Originally Posted by beckerj View Post
    So if ones issues was varicocele the HCG treatment would not be advisable correct ?

    Thanks
    Jason
    Becker, not sure what you are inferring that from, but I dont think that is the case. hCG could be the proper treatment, in spite of a vericocele.
  6. Primary = Varicocele ?


    Quote Originally Posted by colkurtz_spf View Post
    That's correct. HCG only works if the problem is not the testes. With me it's the hypothalmus and low LH.
    I had bilateral varicocele so I wonder if the HCG protocol would even be a right course of action for those with varicocele, seeing as though colkurtz_spf is saying that HCG only works if the problem is not the testes ....

    Right now I am on androgel .... I have been for 2 1/2 weeks .... I had the "WOW" "Eurphoric" experience and now I have, as of today upped the dosage to 6 pumps, seeing as though I have had the crash ....

  7. Quote Originally Posted by beckerj View Post
    I had bilateral varicocele so I wonder if the HCG protocol would even be a right course of action for those with varicocele, seeing as though colkurtz_spf is saying that HCG only works if the problem is not the testes ....

    Right now I am on androgel .... I have been for 2 1/2 weeks .... I had the "WOW" "Eurphoric" experience and now I have, as of today upped the dosage to 6 pumps, seeing as though I have had the crash ....
    Becker, it all depends on how impaired the testes are. You can have vericoceles, and still produce optimal levels of T, theoretically.

  8. I have yet to hear from one person on here that has had varicocele and surgery recover their T .... if you search the forum for varicocele and read through the posts .... most of us are on T or trying anyting and everything to get back to normal .....

    Not sure where my testes are .... I know i am not right though ....

  9. Quote Originally Posted by beckerj View Post
    I have yet to hear from one person on here that has had varicocele and surgery recover their T .... if you search the forum for varicocele and read through the posts .... most of us are on T or trying anyting and everything to get back to normal .....

    Not sure where my testes are .... I know i am not right though ....
    Well, you need to consider your audience . . . on a steroid forum. When I thought I had a varicocele (ended up being a testicle that did not completely descend, with a thick spermatic cord), I did a fair amount of research, and I am fairly certain there are some with varicoceles with optimal testosterone. That said, there likely is some impairment; but that doesnt mean hCG is not worth a try.

    Good luck.

  10. Quote Originally Posted by beckerj View Post
    I have yet to hear from one person on here that has had varicocele and surgery recover their T .... if you search the forum for varicocele and read through the posts .... most of us are on T or trying anyting and everything to get back to normal .....

    Not sure where my testes are .... I know i am not right though ....

    becker,

    what were your LH and FSH levels before surgery.If LH level was low and FSH normal, then you dont have any problem with testes
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  11. Quote Originally Posted by colkurtz_spf View Post
    That's correct. HCG only works if the problem is not the testes. With me it's the hypothalmus and low LH.
    Didnt you go for any surgery for curing hypothlamus disorder

  12. jinxie - I hear ya .... There may be some with optimal T after surgery but is is a fact that varicocele does cause a drop in T .... There is even more information that shows that there is a threshold of T .... Once you drop below it you experience the symptoms ....

    I was thinking of trying the HCG after my 30 day trial of Androgel, if the DR will even entertain it .... We all know how DR's are .... So I am fairly sure, unless after meeting with the new Endo in July, I am stuck with Androgel for the time being ....

    I did up my dosage to 6 pumps a day and added the under arms as a application point .... 2nd day on 6 pumps and my energy is great .... been a busy little bee here at work ... installing monitors and building pc's left and right .... SMILE

    I just wish that more info was out there letting first time users of Androgel of the WOW and Crash .... It really made me feel like stopping the Androgel ....

  13. Quote Originally Posted by beckerj View Post
    jinxie - I hear ya .... There may be some with optimal T after surgery but is is a fact that varicocele does cause a drop in T .... There is even more information that shows that there is a threshold of T .... Once you drop below it you experience the symptoms ....

    I was thinking of trying the HCG after my 30 day trial of Androgel, if the DR will even entertain it .... We all know how DR's are .... So I am fairly sure, unless after meeting with the new Endo in July, I am stuck with Androgel for the time being ....

    I did up my dosage to 6 pumps a day and added the under arms as a application point .... 2nd day on 6 pumps and my energy is great .... been a busy little bee here at work ... installing monitors and building pc's left and right .... SMILE

    I just wish that more info was out there letting first time users of Androgel of the WOW and Crash .... It really made me feel like stopping the Androgel ....
    Glad to hear your feeling well! Good luck with the doc.

  14. Thanks man ....

    I am gonna put out a general question ....

    How do we overcome the performance anxiety that we have when we start to get better ?

    I get so nervous when my other half wants to get busy .... Now if i am the one that is chasing it i am not so nervous ....

  15. Quote Originally Posted by beckerj View Post
    Thanks man ....

    I am gonna put out a general question ....

    How do we overcome the performance anxiety that we have when we start to get better ?

    I get so nervous when my other half wants to get busy .... Now if i am the one that is chasing it i am not so nervous ....
    My best advice, which is easier said than done, is to be a man, and admit your anxieties and insecurities, so that you and yours can conquer them together. I understand that women find such admissions very endearing.

  16. Good Advice .... Thanks

  17. Quote Originally Posted by darkblue1 View Post
    Didnt you go for any surgery for curing hypothlamus disorder
    My Hypothalmus does not produce an adequate level of LH for my testosterone production. My baseline is 3.9. For some that may be enough, but not for me. I'm not sure that brain surgery is the answer. My deficiency could be due to aging or environmental factors. I didn't have this problem when I was younger, and in any case my therapy is working.

  18. colonel kurtz,
    with a resting heart rate of 60bpm, you must be really fit. do you do lots of cardio ?


    Quote Originally Posted by colkurtz_spf View Post
    My visit started Friday morning at Florida Atlantic University’s MRI unit. That’s where I had my bone density test. Upon arrival I was greeted by Dr Willix’s assistant. She stayed with me and then I followed her back to the main office at Cenegenics. When I arrived, another assistant welcomed me; there was a sign in the waiting room with my personal greeting. Apparently the day was set aside for me. They prepared a nicely appointed room with a laptop, fruit, water and an assortment of teas. A menu was waiting on the table for my lunch selection. And in that room my first test began. On the laptop I went through a series of mental tests ranging form memory to response time.

    Later I moved into the examining room for weight and height measurements. For some reason I measured only 6’2.5. That last time, which was several years ago I measured 6’4.” My weight was 257lb, and the body fat tests revealed 20% body fat – higher than I expected. I was given a strength test and flexibility test. I did well on both. Then my blood pressure was taken and I was given an EKG. It was 119/65 with a resting pulse rate of 60. My EKG showed no abnormalities. They served me a wonderful lunch followed by a video explaining insulin levels and degenerative disease before my consultation and final exam with the doctor.

    Dr Willix was cardiovascular doctor and thoracic surgeon. He gave up a lucrative practice years ago to pursue preventative medicine. He studied Ayurvedic medicine and is also a shaman. His decision was not popular in the medical community at that time. He also competed regularly in Iron Man events. At 66 he is in remarkable condition. His exam was thorough, and included eye, reflexes, hernia and rectal. He also examined my tongue which surprised me. Since I was young I’ve had a pronounced geographic tongue. He explained that it was due to poor intestinal exorbtion, and probably a cause of demineralization in my spine and hips – nothing severe, but slightly in the high range for my age. I found it hard to believe, so he pulled out an Ayurvedic chart that showed my aberration. He prescribed probiotics and yogurt, and I was told to avoid sodas because they rob bones of calcium.

    My blood panels, which were extensive (I gave 6 vials of blood after a 12 hour fast) looked very good. My glucose panel showed no sign of impending diabetes. My thyroid levels were good. Kidney and liver functions were very good. My HDL was a little low. My test levels had crashed as expected and my estradiol was very low.

    Prior to my visit, I listed all of the supplements I take along with diet and workout logs (both weights and cardio). The doctor explained that Niacin can lower both good and bad cholesterols and suggested I take 1200 mgs of red rice yeast at bedtime instead. He prescribed 75 mgs of DHEA to be taken in the morning and 5000 IUs of HCG twice a week for the next eight weeks. He will follow up with a blood test to see how I respond and then set my maintenance dosage. Based on my panels and exam he thinks I will respond well. He is keeping me on 7.5 IUs of HGH per week. My current IGF level is 300. He told me to keep taking the rest of my supplements and not change dosage with the exception of EFAs. He wants me to make sure my omegas have EPA of 2- 3 grams. As an Ayurvedic doctor, he was impressed with the USPLab supplements I have been taking. I was glad because they make me feel pretty good and I don't want to give them up. I promised myself and the doctor to give this at least six months. Although I’m somewhat skeptical (as usual) I want to give it a fair chance.

    He put me on a low GI diet and revised my workout plan. I will be doing cardio 5 days per week. My heart rate will have to be between 140 and 150 beats per minute for at least 20 minutes during each session. No overall duration was mentioned. He wants me to hit only one body part per week. There will be 7 sets per exercise with a pyramiding rep range between 6 and 12 reps. Rests between sets will only be for one minute. He wants me to maintain this workout until I reach a target weight of 220lbs. Later I will be able to resume lower reps with longer rests for strength.

    I’m sure that I left out quite a bit. The doctor will be monitoring my progress, and I will post updates and answer any questions.

  19. Quote Originally Posted by living2die View Post
    colonel kurtz,
    with a resting heart rate of 60bpm, you must be really fit. do you do lots of cardio ?
    I do three 30 minute cardio sessions per week, and play three hours (one hour on three different days) of hard tennis against good players who are much younger than me. Tennis will make your heart beat right through your chest if you're any good. I did my first pro tour in '75.

  20. Very interesting information. We are going to see a doctor in Northern CA for HRT, but it is incredibly expensive. The tests for women cost a bit more than men -- it was 1002.00 per person for lab work and initial consultations. The charge for the 6 month contract for oversight plus the first 5 weeks of medications was about $1950 per person. We are getting GH, hormone creams, pills (Pregnenolone, DHEA, thyroid and adrenal support). I'm not sure how this compares to other plans, but it is pretty expensive for us. Almost 3000.00 each. Does that seem reasonable?

  21. Quote Originally Posted by colkurtz_spf View Post
    My Hypothalmus does not produce an adequate level of LH for my testosterone production. My baseline is 3.9. For some that may be enough, but not for me. I'm not sure that brain surgery is the answer. My deficiency could be due to aging or environmental factors. I didn't have this problem when I was younger, and in any case my therapy is working.
    My LH is 1.9 and FSH is like only .9, but somehow I'm sill able to produce midrange TT and FT levels which I think would be an anomaly. I'm still trying to figure this one out. My main problem is lack of libido and adrenal issues. I have tried HCG which I respond well to, but still no libido. Just wondering if my low LH & FSH is still a problem, despite ok test levels.

  22. Quote Originally Posted by kalyson View Post
    Very interesting information. We are going to see a doctor in Northern CA for HRT, but it is incredibly expensive. The tests for women cost a bit more than men -- it was 1002.00 per person for lab work and initial consultations. The charge for the 6 month contract for oversight plus the first 5 weeks of medications was about $1950 per person. We are getting GH, hormone creams, pills (Pregnenolone, DHEA, thyroid and adrenal support). I'm not sure how this compares to other plans, but it is pretty expensive for us. Almost 3000.00 each. Does that seem reasonable?
    The initial blood work and consultation seems reasonable, but the six month fees seem high. I paid 1350 per period.

  23. Quote Originally Posted by health4life24 View Post
    My LH is 1.9 and FSH is like only .9, but somehow I'm sill able to produce midrange TT and FT levels which I think would be an anomaly. I'm still trying to figure this one out. My main problem is lack of libido and adrenal issues. I have tried HCG which I respond well to, but still no libido. Just wondering if my low LH & FSH is still a problem, despite ok test levels.
    What were you numbers before and after HCG, and how long were you on for?

  24. Quote Originally Posted by colkurtz_spf View Post
    What were you numbers before and after HCG, and how long were you on for?
    Those were my numbers before HCG. I don't know what they were after because I didn't do a test. Just went by how I felt. Was able to work out again and had huge boost in energy. I felt I responded well, but still had libido issues. I did do a Rheins after 10 days of stopping HCG if that counts for anything. TT was near top of range.

  25. Quote Originally Posted by colkurtz_spf View Post
    The initial blood work and consultation seems reasonable, but the six month fees seem high. I paid 1350 per period.
    So that included all your meds, too? The oversight fee for 6 mos was 1250 for one but 1000 for the second person in a couple. The difference was the meds for 5 weeks (for each person).

  26. Quote Originally Posted by health4life24 View Post
    Those were my numbers before HCG. I don't know what they were after because I didn't do a test. Just went by how I felt. Was able to work out again and had huge boost in energy. I felt I responded well, but still had libido issues. I did do a Rheins after 10 days of stopping HCG if that counts for anything. TT was near top of range.
    It would be hard to comment without knowing how much you injected and the frequency. Also labs are important. HCG can increase E2 which would diminish your desire for sex.

  27. How long did it take to notice a difference on HGH? We are setting the pen to .2

  28. Quote Originally Posted by kalyson View Post
    How long did it take to notice a difference on HGH? We are setting the pen to .2
    .2 isn't very much at all, but I'm sure your doctor has his reasons.

    I noticed results in 30 days, and my condition improved over time. The most dramatic changes came in 6 months. The results stay with you for quite some time after you stop using it. Even though my doctor recommends daily injections I take 2 days off per week and one month off every six.

  29. Quote Originally Posted by colkurtz_spf View Post
    It would be hard to comment without knowing how much you injected and the frequency. Also labs are important. HCG can increase E2 which would diminish your desire for sex.
    Total estrogens were near top of range. I have used an AI many times before though. Did nothing for libido. Just gave me more energy and clarity of mind. The HCG I used was a homeopathic oral version. Put some drops under tounge, felt it kicking in and working very well after about 10 minutes. I have no idea the amount of IU's it would equate to. I have used injectable to, but prefer the oral because it's easier to deal with and can also have it on me if need be.

    Here are my results if you want to take a look from a Rheins test.

  30. Quote Originally Posted by health4life24 View Post
    Total estrogens were near top of range. I have used an AI many times before though. Did nothing for libido. Just gave me more energy and clarity of mind. The HCG I used was a homeopathic oral version. Put some drops under tounge, felt it kicking in and working very well after about 10 minutes. I have no idea the amount of IU's it would equate to. I have used injectable to, but prefer the oral because it's easier to deal with and can also have it on me if need be.

    Here are my results if you want to take a look from a Rheins test.
    I'm not familiar with oral HCG. I'm talking to a lab that has developed lipid encapsulation for hormones. The medicine dissolves in the lower intestines bypassing the liver. To date they have used it for estrogen, low dose testosterone and oxytocin for women. They are waiting for materials to make a test run on HCG, and I'll be the lab rabbit. I plan to post the results here. I've been told this will also work with testosterone.
  

  
 

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