My Cenegenics Experience
- 04-07-2007, 07:22 PM
i talked to Dr silverman and no where on there webste does it lists prices, but for 2500 you get the program. WTF does that consist of ? what tests and how evasive are their testing? If nothing is covered by insurance. I mean my insurance could pay for all the testing detoxification, mineral anayalsis ect, what they charge 2500 for? just a consultation?
- 04-07-2007, 07:35 PM
They used to be cutting-edge. But, as Dr. John has indicated, the field has sort of passed them by.
- 04-07-2007, 07:51 PM
Thats why i like dr john approach whole lot better..I am starting to see the method behind his madness. Using the pregnenolone cream which body can use to convert to what it needs. More so it converts to progesterone when entering the through the skin providing the building blocks and using it raise progesterone and even possibly testosterone, dhea, while choking off the estrogen metabolism with the DIM if need be. I have always loved this mentality give the body what id needs and let it rebalance it self..
04-08-2007, 01:58 PM
05-07-2007, 11:51 AM
"They used to be cutting-edge. But, as Dr. John has indicated, the field has sort of passed them by."
I have been concidering this program and have found this post very intresting. Could somebody please expand on the comment made above. What programs are more advanced then them?
Colkurtz_spf, its been almost a year. Are you happy with the results this far and would you do it again? Is the program worth the price of admission?
I am not a body builder just a guy who use to be an athlete who as let him self go and am looking for a program to help me get back in shape and start some good habits.
Thanks for all the comments so far.
05-07-2007, 12:31 PM
In post 09-05-2006, 01:48 PM
there is pdf file with tests.
For the tons of money he is spending they could have checked few more things in his blood even if they are not relevant to erection.
05-07-2007, 12:51 PM
They see themselves as leaders and standard-setters in the field of anti-aging medicine. Meanwhile, individual practitioners like Dr. John and Marianco are adding to the knowledge base and developing more refined methods which the Cenegenics practitioners tend not to pay much attention to.
A good example of this is Dr. John's TRT protocol that combines testosterone and small doses of hCG. Cenegenics also uses hCG in TRT, but as a monotherapy in very large doses- which are unneccesary at the very least, and possibly harmful.
Marianco, who I don't believe posts to this board, is a psychiatrist who is single-handedly developing a new medical specialty - neuroendocrinology - that studies the interplay between the endocrine, nervous and immune systems.
05-07-2007, 02:02 PM
Its not any specific groups or programs that are passing them by, but new and more advanced methods/drugs/dose and tweaks to already existing plans by individual doctors working together that are passing the cenegics people by.
05-07-2007, 02:53 PM
My contract with Cenegenics is up the end of next month, and I have been in contact with Dr. John's office. Currently I'm weaning myself off HRT. I have reduced HCG to 500 IUs per week and will be completely finished by the end of this month. My next draw will be June 12. I'm curious to see how I'm going to feel. I feel great now, but I'm aware that will probably change.
Fortunately I have never had ED. My problem was lack of energy and an increase in body fat. It wasn't until I had a bone density test that I discovered my Oteopedia. Before Cenegenics I used an online doc who prescribed testosterone cream and nothing else. I was on for a year. I started with a baseline total of 475 for total testosterone, but don't remember the free.
I will keep the board posted with my progress.
05-07-2007, 03:08 PM
500/week=71/day probably not enough
100/day supposedly is enough or slightly more.
There was link to research floating around.
You must have very good testis, tt=1400
Your estrodial is high at 62
but since your testosterone is 100% your own, possibly it is what you body needs.
I would do (free, bioavailable and Total testosterone) test at Quest.
Adjust HCG so you are at the top of range of either freeT or BioT, and the other is wherewer it falls.
03-25-2008, 12:29 AM
checking on cenegenics experience
Have you been able to maintain your regimen with cenegenics? Any specifics you can share?
03-25-2008, 12:41 AM
04-12-2008, 11:49 PM
04-14-2008, 01:24 AM
I don't know how much HCG you'll need to maintain your TT level. You may need a higher level to start. I did after coming off of the test cream. You'll probably need to titrate your dose based on your labs. I would draw every six weeks until you get it right. Arimidex may be needed eventually.
04-14-2008, 01:55 AM
04-14-2008, 12:47 PM
I think you could start with 1000 IUs every other day. That would be around 3500 per week. Draw blood in 6 weeks and see what you get. If your levels are perfect than remain at that dose for another six weeks and test again. If E2 is too high increase your Arimidex. You may see that your levels continue to increase every six weeks on the same dose - I did. At that point you can start to trim your dose until you are at a comfortable level.
04-14-2008, 04:42 PM
Thanks for all your help. I plan to discuss this with my doc in the next week.
04-14-2008, 05:49 PM
Are you primary?? I am primary and was on solo 5000 units of HCG a week. It only managed to raise my TT to 375..
I am on 100 mg of test cyp right now with no HCG.
My TT went up to 900 and my free went to 245..
If you are primary you will probaby drop to a number you were at before the test cyp therapy.
04-14-2008, 10:47 PM
04-15-2008, 02:44 PM
I have used your post as a reference here:
What is you definition of comfortable (testosterone) level?
Going by numbers I saw floating around, I am thinking of
when one is using HCG only, plus Arnastrozole but no external testosterone.
To find out that FreeT #
one would use either Quest Diagnostics test
Testosterone, Free, Bio/Total (LC/MS/MS)
dr Shippen's chart using TotalT and SHBG values, post #41
04-15-2008, 09:33 PM
You are the resident expert on these types of issues, Jan, but I am fairly confident I will bust 200 FT on 2k IUs of HCG (600 IUs EOD) and ~1.5 mgs of Arnastrozole.
04-16-2008, 12:09 AM
That's a good question. Maybe the answer depends on the individual. FT at 160 should be enough for anyone. I feel good at 233, but felt better in the 300 range. I didn't see much of an added benefit at 425. It only raised my estrogen level.
04-16-2008, 08:43 AM
04-22-2008, 04:33 PM
04-22-2008, 04:45 PM
04-22-2008, 04:55 PM
Primary = Varicocele ?
Right now I am on androgel .... I have been for 2 1/2 weeks .... I had the "WOW" "Eurphoric" experience and now I have, as of today upped the dosage to 6 pumps, seeing as though I have had the crash ....
04-22-2008, 06:53 PM
04-22-2008, 08:50 PM
I have yet to hear from one person on here that has had varicocele and surgery recover their T .... if you search the forum for varicocele and read through the posts .... most of us are on T or trying anyting and everything to get back to normal .....
Not sure where my testes are .... I know i am not right though ....
04-22-2008, 09:29 PM
04-23-2008, 11:32 AM
04-23-2008, 11:45 AM
04-23-2008, 12:21 PM
jinxie - I hear ya .... There may be some with optimal T after surgery but is is a fact that varicocele does cause a drop in T .... There is even more information that shows that there is a threshold of T .... Once you drop below it you experience the symptoms ....
I was thinking of trying the HCG after my 30 day trial of Androgel, if the DR will even entertain it .... We all know how DR's are .... So I am fairly sure, unless after meeting with the new Endo in July, I am stuck with Androgel for the time being ....
I did up my dosage to 6 pumps a day and added the under arms as a application point .... 2nd day on 6 pumps and my energy is great .... been a busy little bee here at work ... installing monitors and building pc's left and right .... SMILE
I just wish that more info was out there letting first time users of Androgel of the WOW and Crash .... It really made me feel like stopping the Androgel ....
04-23-2008, 09:23 PM
04-24-2008, 08:14 AM
Thanks man ....
I am gonna put out a general question ....
How do we overcome the performance anxiety that we have when we start to get better ?
I get so nervous when my other half wants to get busy .... Now if i am the one that is chasing it i am not so nervous ....
04-24-2008, 02:27 PM
04-25-2008, 11:03 AM
04-25-2008, 02:28 PM
02-03-2009, 12:44 PM
02-03-2009, 11:04 PM
02-12-2009, 02:16 AM
Very interesting information. We are going to see a doctor in Northern CA for HRT, but it is incredibly expensive. The tests for women cost a bit more than men -- it was 1002.00 per person for lab work and initial consultations. The charge for the 6 month contract for oversight plus the first 5 weeks of medications was about $1950 per person. We are getting GH, hormone creams, pills (Pregnenolone, DHEA, thyroid and adrenal support). I'm not sure how this compares to other plans, but it is pretty expensive for us. Almost 3000.00 each. Does that seem reasonable?
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