My Cenegenics Experience

[colkurtz_spf]

Did you mean that as written?

Have you had breakdown of Estrogens to include Estrone done? How about Total Estrogens and Progesterone?

On what day was your lab assay compared to injection day?

Dosages that high have been shown, without a doubt, to down regulate Leydig cell LH receptors. And biphasic T response--more evidence of induced hormonal mayhem.

I can tell you that there just isn't anyone at the cutting edge who employs dosing such as that anymore.

It might be a good idea to consider tapering that HCG right down, perhaps adding in a SERM, to see if your system will recover.

The lab was preformed two days after an injection. I had complete panels on the last test.

Are you saying that my leydig cells are being burned out?
I've checked my protocol with the medical staff at Cenegenics. I'm not a doctor and assumed they are on the leading edge.

[colkurtz_spf]

Can you check them for the three assays?

I can only share with you MPO, if you know what I mean. AND what I have heard the other top docs in the field say. Did you happen to read my retelling of the conversation I had with the legendary Dr. Eugene Shippen regarding HCG dosing on this Forum?

Again, and I stress this, I'd sure like to see if you could become non-TRT dependent. The HCG therapy you have been on will have helped you in this.

And did you mean to say your doctor told you that your T output will be dropping?

I can't tell you how much I appreciate your input on this.

My doctor told me my test levels would be lower in eight weeks. He is OK with me scaling back the dosage if I wish, but doesn't see the need. I'm sure I can ask for complete panels as well. I could tell him tomorrow that I am reducing my dose to 1500 IUs per week.

[colkurtz_spf]

Can you check them for the three assays?

I can only share with you MPO, if you know what I mean. AND what I have heard the other top docs in the field say. Did you happen to read my retelling of the conversation I had with the legendary Dr. Eugene Shippen regarding HCG dosing on this Forum?

Again, and I stress this, I'd sure like to see if you could become non-TRT dependent. The HCG therapy you have been on will have helped you in this.

And did you mean to say your doctor told you that your T output will be dropping?

I think I will need another draw for those three assays. Nothing would please me more than to be free of trt. Do you think my dosage should be reduced over time or discontinued immediately? What levels do you like to see testosterone at?
I hope you don't mind me asking.

[colkurtz_spf]

It gets kind of sticky here, but I do not want to try to direct your medicla care through this Forum. I am just trying to suggest a couple of things whhc may benefit you--and the rest of the members here.

If T levels admittedly drop over time when HCG is administered at such high dosages, what does that tell us?

I hasten to add that we cannot expect every physician to have the time to keep up with what is going on at the cutting edge. We all do the best we can.

I appreciate your suggestions and will keep posting my choices and results here on this forum.

Thank you.

[t-bone2]

I appreciate your suggestions and will keep posting my choices and results here on this forum.

colkurtz,

How have things been progressing?

[colkurtz_spf]

colkurtz,

How have things been progressing?

So far so good. My dosage has been reduced by 60% and my T levels remain the same.

This summer will mark the anniversary of my treatment. I plan to post my results. I feel great, but still not convinced. I have doubts about long-term effects. Soon I will have to make a decision.

[colkurtz_spf]

What does that tell us?

Did you have Estrogen, progesterone, and SHBG monitored along the way?

Only estrogen. They don't believe in monitoring SHBG - not sure why they omit progesterone. I sent my doc researsch showing the importance of Bioavailable T and SHBG. It didn't change things.

[JanSz]

So far so good. My dosage has been reduced by 60% and my T levels remain the same.

This summer will mark the anniversary of my treatment. I plan to post my results. I feel great, but still not convinced. I have doubts about long-term effects. Soon I will have to make a decision.

What would convice you?
Have you felt great for most of the year or this is just short (insignificant??) event?

[colkurtz_spf]

What would convice you?
Have you felt great for most of the year or this is just short (insignificant??) event?

Sorry I did not respond sooner. I've been out of town.

I suppose I have no right to complain. This past year I have felt better than I have in decades. Still, I worry about the long-term effects of this treatment. One year is a short time frame for me. Regardless of my results in June I plan to get a second opinion.

[motiv8er]

Sorry I did not respond sooner. I've been out of town.

I suppose I have no right to complain. This past year I have felt better than I have in decades. Still, I worry about the long-term effects of this treatment. One year is a short time frame for me. Regardless of my results in June I plan to get a second opinion.

Understood. WE get one body, one life. Its a shame to waste it one way or another. Then again, when I check out, I hope I shatter into a million pieces; cause there wont be sh!t left on me to work!! I used it all up in this life.

[colkurtz_spf]

Understood. WE get one body, one life. Its a shame to waste it one way or another. Then again, when I check out, I hope I shatter into a million pieces; cause there wont be sh!t left on me to work!! I used it all up in this life.

That's a good philosophy. Unfortunately as we get older we start to think about the quality of life. Being bound by a wheel chair or attached to a colostomy bag is not the most appealing lifestyle. It's not how long you live, but how you live it long.

[plymouth city]

That's a good philosophy. Unfortunately as we get older we start to think about the quality of life. Being bound by a wheel chair or attached to a colostomy bag is not the most appealing lifestyle. It's not how long you live, but how you live it long.

Beautifully said. At 27, my daredevil stunt days are OVER. Ive always been a risk taker, but now my risks are in other ventures, like business/money and other risks that don't involve anything physical.

[motiv8er]

That's a good philosophy. Unfortunately as we get older we start to think about the quality of life. Being bound by a wheel chair or attached to a colostomy bag is not the most appealing lifestyle. It's not how long you live, but how you live it long.

Agreed. However, this is my 61 year old father take on it. And why he hopes just to bike off a cliff when it is his time. For the above mentioned reasons, but also why his mental state is his own. I am being very serious. You could say he's gonna rock until the wheels roll off!!

[plymouth city]

Sorry I did not respond sooner. I've been out of town.

I suppose I have no right to complain. This past year I have felt better than I have in decades. Still, I worry about the long-term effects of this treatment. One year is a short time frame for me. Regardless of my results in June I plan to get a second opinion.

Whats your current drug regimine?

[colkurtz_spf]

Agreed. However, this is my 61 year old father take on it. And why he hopes just to bike off a cliff when it is his time. For the above mentioned reasons, but also why his mental state is his own. I am being very serious. You could say he's gonna rock until the wheels roll off!!

It's a good philosophy, and one that I subscribe to.

When I was not much older than you (31) I was diagnosed with a spinal condition that was supposed to paralyze me by 50. Of course there was a surgical solution - one that I ignored. At 39 I was unable to walk for a period of six weeks. A Rumanian miracle worker was able to massage me to my feet again. After that I hit the gym. It was difficult. I couldn't bend to tie my shoes let alone perform a squat. Today (10 years later) I dead lift 465 from the ground for six reps and bench 225 for 19.

I believe in getting as much out of life as possible, and in my mind it means taking care of my body. The parable about ending your life in a worn out body VS a well-preserved one is actually quite old. One could take it as literal, but I prefer to think of it as a metaphor for getting the most out of life.

[colkurtz_spf]

Whats your current drug regimine?

I'm currently using HCG 2000 IUs twice per week and taking 1 MG of Arimidex 3 times per week. My dosage is constantly decreasing and my test numbers keep going up, and that is making me nervous.

Currently my total test is over 1400 and free at 425. My estradiol is at 56, but I don't feel any of the associated sides. My libido is very high. I started last June at 10,000 IUs per week. I have a call with my doc next week; we should be moving down to 2000 IUs or less per week.

I thinking about a consultation with Dr. Shabana, but he doesn't run the same panels as Dr. John and so I'm reluctant.

[plymouth city]

Wholy **** your on alot of drugs! 4000UI of hCG per week? Its been proven that testical function is best restored at 500IU - 750 IU per week.

And 3mg of arimidex? Wow.

How much T? Any GH?

Your TT of 1400 is crazy bro. I would think that would NOT be safe long term. I think its best to be conservative with it and shoot for ranges that a normal male 24 - 30 has, shooting for ranges in the 600's and a little higher.

[t-bone2]

At 39 I was unable to walk for a period of six weeks. A Rumanian miracle worker was able to massage me to my feet again. After that I hit the gym. It was difficult. I couldn't bend to tie my shoes let alone perform a squat. Today (10 years later) I dead lift 465 from the ground for six reps and bench 225 for 19.

Very couragous. Lots of folks would have given up. 465 for 6 is respectable at any age.

[JanSz]

I'm currently using HCG 2000 IUs twice per week and taking 1 MG of Arimidex 3 times per week. My dosage is constantly decreasing and my test numbers keep going up, and that is making me nervous.

Currently my total test is over 1400 and free at 425. My estradiol is at 56, but I don't feel any of the associated sides. My libido is very high. I started last June at 10,000 IUs per week. I have a call with my doc next week; we should be moving down to 2000 IUs or less per week.

I thinking about a consultation with Dr. Shabana, but he doesn't run the same panels as Dr. John and so I'm reluctant.

Whatewer you are doing is working for you.
Cannot argue with success.
Have you in any of the previous posts provided description of your self your complains, treatment you have got. History of treatment and possiby reason that you doctor did what he did.

If you did, please post a link to this posts if not, I would appreciate if you provide this information.

[colkurtz_spf]

Whatewer you are doing is working for you.
Cannot argue with success.
Have you in any of the previous posts provided description of your self your complains, treatment you have got. History of treatment and possiby reason that you doctor did what he did.

If you did, please post a link to this posts if not, I would appreciate if you provide this information.

I started this thread. In the beginning I posted some intial blood test results and I think I may have given some background. I plan to update this the end of June.