Low Testosterone

[BigRagu]

Walt

I took it for two weeks. I just wanted to see if I felt better, which I did...

Remember I wasn't after big muscles, I was just trying to find out if I could spike my test levels. No sides at all!

It wasn't like I'm experimenting on myself, but you can't get answers, well, I had to try something.

As a note; My doctor mentioned a patch, not sure what she meant, but.. I'll know more next week.

Osr436

there is a test patch that u can get.... one that is allied to your balls the other is allied to your back..... u get to choose which u use... the one u put on your back is much larger though..... problem with transadermals is they have higher dht conversion then shots and most people always get a skin reaction to them... i took androgel 4 about 1month 1 week and my skin was so scaley it could of sanded a table with it......... another down side to them is i believe there more expensive then shots

[okboy63]

Walt

I took it for two weeks. I just wanted to see if I felt better, which I did...

Remember I wasn't after big muscles, I was just trying to find out if I could spike my test levels. No sides at all!

It wasn't like I'm experimenting on myself, but you can't get answers, well, I had to try something.

As a note; My doctor mentioned a patch, not sure what she meant, but.. I'll know more next week.

Osr436

After you quit taking it(M4ohn) how long did it take for your test levels to drop again? Did the M4ohn also cause your estrogen level to go up any.
Would like to see the blood work on that stuff(I have a ton of it laying around)

[PSBigJoey]

When placed on Androgel or Test Cyp alone, I went polycythemic in a big way (another term for too many red blood cells or high hematocrit). The answer was twofold: split the weekly dosage of 200mg into two biweekly injections of 100mg each ~ but this left my levels a little lower than the doc wanted, especially the free or unbound testosterone. His response to that was to add in 100mg of deca as a chaser. I now do 2 shots per week consisting of 1/2cc of test and 1/2cc of deca. This gets me into a healthy range with acceptable impact on hematocrit.

[Werewolf]

After you quit taking it(M4ohn) how long did it take for your test levels to drop again? Did the M4ohn also cause your estrogen level to go up any.
Would like to see the blood work on that stuff(I have a ton of it laying around)

Mohn is actually weak anti-estrogen.

Here is some info with using ATD instead.

[BigRagu]

When placed on Androgel or Test Cyp alone, I went polycythemic in a big way (another term for too many red blood cells or high hematocrit). The answer was twofold: split the weekly dosage of 200mg into two biweekly injections of 100mg each ~ but this left my levels a little lower than the doc wanted, especially the free or unbound testosterone. His response to that was to add in 100mg of deca as a chaser. I now do 2 shots per week consisting of 1/2cc of test and 1/2cc of deca. This gets me into a healthy range with acceptable impact on hematocrit.

200mg of test in one shot is almost always high for any1. the normal dose for some1 is 100mg once a week i'm currently on 120mg and it's pushing my test to the very top of the normal range. usually the 2 days b4 your shot u will take LOW dose hcg to give alittle boost those days. i would suggest talking to your doctor about going back on all test cyp but starting at a dose of 100mg and working your way up or down from there after u get some labs.

as for the deca it has NO place in hrt

[PSBigJoey]

Ragu, if "normal range" means the reference ranges published by the labs, they do not reflect healthy values, only unsurprising ones. Total test should be up in the 800-1200ng/dl range as it is when a man is in his 20's. THAT'S healthy. As for the dosage required, that depends on how low you are and your size. My Total Test was under 200 when I first was tested. It takes over 200mg/week to get me up into reasonable country, and the Free Test was still low with that. Combining the two drugs gets both numbers into a healthy range. Ragu, what you need to do and how you need to do it is a bit different after you cross the andropause divide. As for HCG and the like, they do essentially nothing for me. I have symptoms of primary & secondary hypogonadism, and the extensive bloodwork that's been done on me annually for the last 4 years backs up the diagnosis and the treatment plan. In fact, my medical insurance picks this stuff up.....

[PSBigJoey]

if u guys want a great place to find out about hrt and so on this is the place to go.....

http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/forumdisplay.php?f=9

Again in the other forum the confusion seems to be between "normal", which means "unsurprising", and "healthy". Most men are not at healthy levels as they age, and the decline in values is reflected in most studies.

Think about it this way: "normal" for 80 is dead. Remember that the body was not originally expected to last into the 40's and 50's. Diseases and injuries wiped us out in huge numbers until just a few years ago, anthropologically speaking. The male body was designed to make it into the years when it could procreate and work hard enough to supply food and shelter for the next generation as it matured - then its job was done. How can it surprise us that many of our systems do not stay in order as we quadruple or quintuple our lifespan?

[AGELESS]

Again in the other forum the confusion seems to be between "normal", which means "unsurprising", and "healthy". Most men are not at healthy levels as they age, and the decline in values is reflected in most studies.

Think about it this way: "normal" for 80 is dead. Remember that the body was not originally expected to last into the 40's and 50's. Diseases and injuries wiped us out in huge numbers until just a few years ago, anthropologically speaking. The male body was designed to make it into the years when it could procreate and work hard enough to supply food and shelter for the next generation as it matured - then its job was done. How can it surprise us that many of our systems do not stay in order as we quadruple or quintuple our lifespan?

As I read all these posts and hear about uninformed doctors, I can understand why they call it “practicing medicine”.
I scratch my head and say out loud “OH MY GOD!!” All this is on a bodybuilding board, maybe it should be on some kind of health for men board and someone would listen…(like a real Dr.)

On a bodybuilding board we all must be very careful and not say or recommend drugs or hormones that will help us with a better quality of life, for fear of being banned (and I do understand that) and the Feds knocking on our door trying to save the world from a 62 yr old bodybuilder who takes hormones.

In the past I have seen people (old guys) work out nearly every day. They workout very hard and get a lot of tired muscles and sweat a lot and not much more. Without the proper hormone balance its almost a waist of time...and they don’t have a lot of that left.

Then there is the guy who goes to the gym and stands around and just talks just to get away from the “old lady” who wont stop “*****in” at him for low sex drive and just watching TV all day.

As for me, my life has changed so much for the better, I feel guilty. HRT has given me a new life... Not just muscles. I got my body back to where I wanted by moving iron from Point A to Point B.

Big Joey I for one want to live past 80 just to piss off people that will probably be dead already! Wow! There I go! "Roid Rage" God help me!

[David Dunn]

Hey guys. I am going to move this to our new HRT Forum. This is very good stuff. I appreciate you experienced guys sharing and welcome you do so frequently. Thanks.

[BigRagu]

Ragu, if "normal range" means the reference ranges published by the labs, they do not reflect healthy values, only unsurprising ones. Total test should be up in the 800-1200ng/dl range as it is when a man is in his 20's. THAT'S healthy. As for the dosage required, that depends on how low you are and your size. My Total Test was under 200 when I first was tested. It takes over 200mg/week to get me up into reasonable country, and the Free Test was still low with that. Combining the two drugs gets both numbers into a healthy range. Ragu, what you need to do and how you need to do it is a bit different after you cross the andropause divide. As for HCG and the like, they do essentially nothing for me. I have symptoms of primary & secondary hypogonadism, and the extensive bloodwork that's been done on me annually for the last 4 years backs up the diagnosis and the treatment plan. In fact, my medical insurance picks this stuff up.....

the normal for a male in his 20's depends on the range that the lab uses. the lab i used was 300-1000 is where im at. i'm my test lvls are in the 700s the day b4 my shot and i only take 120 a week 200mg is insane. i would be like 2x the upper norm

how low u are to begin with dosn't determine how much test yoru going to need. once u start hrt yoru body shuts down and u have to supplement it.

as for the free test. on 120mg my free test is over the normal range (i must have low shbg or something)

i dont see how your using deca to boost test... deca is not test and will not convert to test in the body. there 2 totally different hormones. i have not see one legit hrt clinic perscribe deca to patients. i believe they only give that to aids wasting patients

and im no small guy 6'1 232 currently and 120 works just fine... it is time to get labs and see if it does need to be adjusted (it's possible)... i will keep u posted

mabe multi shots might be better for u then just 1 shot.. there are people that take 2 shots a week and 3 in smaller doses and it works for them

[jjm]

I read if you get prescribed HRT that you run the chance of not being able to have kids when you're older.

Someone want to elaborate on that?

[PSBigJoey]

I read if you get prescribed HRT that you run the chance of not being able to have kids when you're older.

Someone want to elaborate on that?

If your testosterone levels are low, chances are you're having fertility problems already. HRT may further supress them and exacerbate an already existing condition.

If your levels are low, but you're putting out good sperm counts with good motility, etc and you need to go on HRT, consider the sperm bank option. But I suspect that low testosterone has already compromised your ability to have (more) kids.

[Ripw4]

As a man in his 20's with low test I sympathize with you..
Most doctors were afraid to do anything for me because I was so young..Test level was at 307.I was 25 when I went to the doc..I am supposed to be at the highest levels of my life..if my highest level is 307..damn..mid life crisis here I come. I went to the doctor complaining of loss of interest in sex...Went 3 months without having sex with my girlfriend..just didnt want it..

He finally agreed to give me a trial run of androgel..Which my insurance paid for..Sad thing is..My insurance ran out and since I have some incurable health problems..no one will insure me..so... No more test
on the bright side..There are many "clinics" on the net that would be more than willing to treat you...

I hope everything works out..

[PSBigJoey]

My insurance ran out and since I have some incurable health problems..no one will insure me.

I happen to be the group administrator for our company's health insurance plan. My explicit understanding is that with a true group policy, the health status of an individual is NOT a limiting factor. It is NOT CONSIDERED when joining the group. We specifically checked this because a prospective employee has a chronic condition that renders him uninsurable with respect to an individual policy.

Of course this is California and the laws may allow other policy practices where you are - but it's worth investigating. Good luck!

[glg]

Serum T 490 reference range 241 - 827 ng/dL
Free T 9.8 reference range 7.2 - 24.0 pg/mL

age 58

other issues in life/health.

Dr. understands where I'm coming from but has no experience in HRT other than "really" low T levels in younger males.

Doesn't know anyone in the southwest Denver area or Denver at all for that matter that she can refer me to. Is willing but just isn't there in her practice at this time.

looking at the different sites that have been posted but if anyone lives in the Denver area and could send me a name or two it would be very much appreciated.

In the mean time I will be making a lot of useless calls to the Endo's etc in my area asking those target questions that have been on the site.

[PROD1GY]

I know I shouldn't really be on this topic, but what are the side effects of HRT? I am there has to be something wrong about it, otherwise Low-Test wouldnt be such a problem.
Is low-test permanent?

[David Dunn]

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/hormo...n-therapy.html

[wophood]

You think you guys got it bad right now??? I just got some blood work back and had a total count 88...****** 88!!! so now my doc's sending me to a endocrinologist.

[PROD1GY]

I know I shouldn't really be on this topic, but what are the side effects of HRT? I am there has to be something wrong about it, otherwise Low-Test wouldnt be such a problem.
Is low-test permanent?

I always get last post at the end of page..
BTW, do you guys all have LT naturally?

[xr650r]

Serum T 490 reference range 241 - 827 ng/dL
Free T 9.8 reference range 7.2 - 24.0 pg/mL

age 58

other issues in life/health.

Dr. understands where I'm coming from but has no experience in HRT other than "really" low T levels in younger males.

Doesn't know anyone in the southwest Denver area or Denver at all for that matter that she can refer me to. Is willing but just isn't there in her practice at this time.

looking at the different sites that have been posted but if anyone lives in the Denver area and could send me a name or two it would be very much appreciated.

In the mean time I will be making a lot of useless calls to the Endo's etc in my area asking those target questions that have been on the site.

Look up Dr. Ross in Cheyenne,WY (90 miles N. of Denver). He's been a great help to me and knows what he's doing. PM me if you need any more info.