FDA issues a scary TRT risk assessment

JReinhal

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FDA evaluating risk of stroke, heart attack and death with FDA-approved testosterone products

"Safety Announcement
[01-31-2014] The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) is investigating the risk of stroke, heart attack, and death in men taking FDA-approved testosterone products. We have been monitoring this risk and decided to reassess this safety issue based on the recent publication of two separate studies that each suggested an increased risk of cardiovascular events among groups of men prescribed testosterone therapy. We are providing this alert while we continue to evaluate the information from these studies and other available data, and will communicate our final conclusions and recommendations when the evaluation is complete.
At this time, FDA has not concluded that FDA-approved testosterone treatment increases the risk of stroke, heart attack, or death. Patients should not stop taking prescribed testosterone products without first discussing any questions or concerns with their health care professionals. Health care professionals should consider whether the benefits of FDA-approved testosterone treatment is likely to exceed the potential risks of treatment. The prescribing information in the drug labels of FDA-approved testosterone products should be followed.
Testosterone is a hormone essential to the development of male growth and masculine characteristics. Testosterone products are FDA-approved only for use in men who lack or have low testosterone levels in conjunction with an associated medical condition. Examples of these conditions include failure of the testicles to produce testosterone because of reasons such as genetic problems or chemotherapy. Other examples include problems with brain structures, called the hypothalamus and pituitary, that control the production of testosterone by the testicles.
None of the FDA-approved testosterone products are approved for use in men with low testosterone levels who lack an associated medical condition. FDA-approved testosterone formulations include the topical gel, transdermal patch, buccal system (applied to upper gum or inner cheek), and injection.
The first publication that prompted FDA to reassess the cardiovascular safety of testosterone therapy was an observational study of older men in the U.S. Veteran Affairs health system published in the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA) in November 2013.1 The men included in this study had low serum testosterone and were undergoing imaging of the blood vessels of the heart, called coronary angiography, to assess for coronary artery disease. Some of the men received testosterone treatment while others did not. On average, the men who entered the study were about 60 years old, and many had underlying cardiovascular disease. This study suggested a 30 percent increased risk of stroke, heart attack, and death in the group that had been prescribed testosterone therapy.
A second observational study reported an increased risk of heart attack in older men, as well as in younger men with pre-existing heart disease, who filled a prescription for testosterone therapy.2 The study reported a two-fold increase in the risk of heart attack among men aged 65 years and older in the first 90 days following the first prescription. Among younger men less than 65 years old with a pre-existing history of heart disease, the study reported a two- to three-fold increased risk of heart attack in the first 90 days following a first prescription. Younger men without a history of heart disease who filled a prescription for testosterone, however, did not have an increased risk of heart attack.
We urge health care professionals and patients to report side effects involving prescription testosterone products to the FDA MedWatch program, using the information in the "Contact FDA" box at the bottom of the page."
 
ZiR RED

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I have seen these studies and their critiques.

In study 1 it is observational, not controlled. What is the risk of heart disease and incidence in men with normal or low testosterone levels who have underlying conditions? And what was the time frame? We need to look at two things before coming to a conclusion...which I fear the FDA will not do as they are highly biased against (IMO) against androgen based treatments. We need to look at a similar cohort with a similar time frame and see what the risk of is of men that age with normal levels. Then, we need to look at hypogonadal men under the same time frame and measure risk. Then, and only then, can we compare all three to determine if TRT increases, decreases or does not change the risk factor for heart disease.

Study 2 is all about Pre-existing conditions and risk as well. Check out the raw data:
In the raw numbers, the chance of death among those not given TRT was 681/7486 or 9% and in those given TRT, it was 67/1223 or 5% and the risks of MI or stroke are similarly favorable to those placed on replacement therapy. These findings are consistent with those reported by Shores et al when they looked at a similar cohort last year and also this study of TRT in men with T2DM.

From suppversity
SuppVersity Shocking Figure of the Day: 5x higher all-cause mortality risk for men with severe late onset hypogonadism (testosterone deficiency)

According to the data from a recent study by scientists from the University of Manchester men with full blown testosterone deficiency had a 5.5x higher risk of all-cause mortality.

"Only" having low testosterone levels (<8nmol/L) was associated with a 2x higher all-cause mortality; sexual symptoms of low testosterone with 3x higher all-cause mortality.

While the scientists conclude that "[d]etecting low T in men presenting with sexual symptoms offers an opportunity to identify a small subgroup of aging men at particularly high risk of dying", my personal bottom line would be: You better make sure to get your testosterone levels checked regularly! www.suppversity.com

Reference: Pye et al. Late-Onset Hypogonadism and Mortality in Aging Men. The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism. December 11, 2013 jc.2013-2052.
 

JReinhal

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Found this fairly good rebuttal:

http://www.brinkzone.com/mens-health/comment-on-study-increased-risk-of-heart-attack-following-testosterone-therapy/

"Comment on study: “Increased Risk of Heart Attack Following Testosterone Therapy”

A few days ago, Jan 29th 2014, a controversial study was published showing that men aged 65 years and older, had a two-fold increase in the risk of heart attack in the 90 days after filling an initial testosterone therapy (TT) prescription, regardless of cardiovascular disease history. Among younger men below 65 years of age with a history of heart disease, the study reported two to three-fold increased risk of MI in the 90 days following an initial TT prescription (and no excess risk was found in younger men without such a history).

This study has stirred up heated discussions and media headlines. Let’s dissect it and look under the hood…

Study methodology

The study analyzed over 55,000 patients in a health-care database, which did not include information on blood work nor diagnostic indications for treatment.[1]

Thus, it is lacking critical information on baseline hormone levels and potential risk factors which could have contributed to the heart attacks. The study also lacks data on what type of testosterone treatments that were used, and dosages.

In addition, it should be noted that this study was not a randomized controlled trial, which is the gold standard in medical research.

Comments

Testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) increases both estradiol and DHT (dihydrotestosterone). When men take testosterone, a significant amount of it can be converted into estradiol by aromatase in just a few months, especially in older men over 59 years of age.[2]

Excess estrogen promotes abnormal clot formation [3] and several studies have shown that even slightly elevated estradiol levels increases risk of CVD (cardiovascular disease), and cardiovascular/all-cause mortality. [4-6] For example, compared to having estradiol in the optimal range of 21.80 – 30.11 pg/mL, men with an estradiol level over 37.40 pg/mL were found in one study to have over a two-fold increase risk of dying during a 3 year follow-up.[5] Therefore, levels of all relevant hormones have to be monitored and taking into account before drawing conclusions. While acknowledging that estradiol elevations might contribute to cardiovascular events, the study authors did not point out that this could have been an important contributing factor to the rise in heart attacks.

Another issue that not many doctors are aware of is that the metabolic clearance of testosterone slows down with age.[7] This means that any given testosterone supplementation dose will cause a higher elevation in blood testosterone levels in older men over 59 years of age, compared to young men below 35 years. Thus, replacement doses have to be titrated accurately in older men to minimize the risk of adverse events during TRT.

The most common side-effect of TRT is elevation of hematocrit (aka polycythemia) [8], ie. an increase in the percentage of the volume of whole blood that is made up of red blood cells. Elevated hematocrit, which increases the blood’s viscosity (ie. makes the blood thicker), can itself give rise to heart attacks.[9] The risk of hematocrit elevation varies widely depending on mode of testosterone administration: 15% with gel and up to 44% with intramuscular injections.[10, 11] Thus, when evaluating safety of TRT, the different modes of testosterone delivery need to be analyzed separately. This was another important factor left out in this study.

What do other studies show?

The study’s ignorance of these issues completely discredits the conclusion that “evidence supports an association between testosterone therapy and risk of serious, adverse cardiovascular related events – including non-fatal myocardial infarction – in men.”

A plethora of randomized controlled trials contradicts this conclusion. Three meta-analyses of a total of 100 well conducted randomized controlled trials found no significant difference between the TRT and placebo groups for all cardiovascular events, nor for each type of event (all cause and CV death, fatal and non-fatal myocardial infarction, revascularization procedures, arrhythmia, cerebrovascular events).[8, 12, 13]

Why doesn’t this make it to the media headlines?

Bottom Line

Current available evidence generated from well designed randomized controlled trials show overall that TRT in men is not associated with an increase in cardiovascular adverse events.

Garbage in, garbage out!"
 
LMuscle

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I do feel testing should be done a little more frequently regarding high hematocrit. Mine has been high since I started, but only 1 point from being out of range (so my doc says nothing about it). I would donate blood, but the last time I went the nurse damaged a nerve in my arm from inexperience, so I'm staying away from blood donation unless it's absolutely necessary. And by that I mean it happened a year ago and I'm STILL having pain/issues from it.
 
GO_OUTSIDE!

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I was listening to the Diane Rhem show on NPR. It is scary how a group of androphobs can misrepresent the facts when they want to change something. You can listen to it on line here http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2014-02-06/risks-and-benefits-prescribing-testosterone. There was a bunch of comments from people challenging the show and disagreeing with the bias of the host and its guests, but they were removed. I think we are in for a fight.
The fems are blaming Testosterone for all the evils of a$$hole men, and are set to remove it from use. It is time to write letters to the FDA and NPR. They need to hear positive feedback from normal men who dont beat their wives.
 
LMuscle

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I was listening to the Diane Rhem show on NPR. It is scary how a group of androphobs can misrepresent the facts when they want to change something. You can listen to it on line here http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2014-02-06/risks-and-benefits-prescribing-testosterone. There was a bunch of comments from people challenging the show and disagreeing with the bias of the host and its guests, but they were removed. I think we are in for a fight.
The fems are blaming Testosterone for all the evils of a$$hole men, and are set to remove it from use. It is time to write letters to the FDA and NPR. They need to hear positive feedback from normal men who dont beat their wives.
Test has nothing to do with violence right? That just depends on the personality of the person to begin with. And problems start when hormones are out of balance. For instance, if my e2 gets high, I become very angry and irritable. If my test is high and e2 is normal, not a problem.
 
threeFs

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There will always be nay sayers. I doubt anyone on trt including myself would want to go back to life before trt. Everything has risk. Life with low T has risk as well.
 
Chuckj1973

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Agreed. I'll never go back, it's a dark dark place.
 

pmgamer18

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I just posted a thread about this link from medscape and to read them links you need to join medscape. My post is called "More on Testosterone true or just a bunch of Bull."
For those interested, especially in educating others and/or those who may question you being on TRT, this is a great (and short) slide show of the risk factors of low T, risks (or lack of) associated with TRT, and a good critique of the studies that did "find" a relationship between TRT and cardiovascualr risk.

http://www.medscape.com/features/slideshow/testosterone-deficiency?src=wnl_edit_specol&uac=100205HR#5
 
ZiR RED

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Where is your thread? Also, I believe medscape is free.
 

kisaj

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I will never go back and really am not concerned in the least by some unintelligent, misinformed people trying to yell about something. Hormone optimization is the future whether they like it or not.
 

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What I do find kind of funny is, most chemical drugs have all kinds of sides and some very dangerous sides at that, and they advertise them all over the boob tube.( like I could just go buy them OTC!?!?!)
I will never figure out the medical community and really taking one's health into consideration first and foremost.
 
Whacked

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The Matrix

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3 words
Improperly monitored estradiol ...

Heres strong supporting evidence against claims
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7148879

Sorry I have not been around, The last 3-6 months have been unbelievable in so many ways. I will not bore you with details because I promised my self to remain humble through this incredible journey we call life. I still have to smack my self across the face some days to see if its a dream..life could not be any more fulling at this time..

Remember its not just what you know in life, but the respect you show people and the gratitude they return makes life so amazing...

No matter how much people may knock you down, you will just spring back with more desire to succeed.
 
ZiR RED

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That's interesting Matrix. I was always under the impression estrogen was cardio-protective, at least from the stance of the blood lipid profile. Did the authors provide any speculation of mechanism?

As I read through some of the related studies I notice many of them were done pre-trt days.
If we look at this one http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3573299 we see that a positive relationship exists between E:T ratio and MI. It would be interesting to see in the studies against TRT cited by the FDA if:
1. E was high to begin with in the MI groups
2. If E went up higher as a result of TRT.

And, as a physiologist I am always interested in mechanisms.
 
Whacked

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You, me and 99% of the bodybuilding world.

IN for more info on this .....

That's interesting Matrix. I was always under the impression estrogen was cardio-protective, at least from the stance of the blood lipid profile.
 
The Matrix

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First of all you need to look at who is financing the study to see what there motive is.

Personally a lot of research is rigged and fabricated to get a desired out come to appease the powers to be running it in the first place. How about we put this up against a double blind study to really test it with more definitive criteria for the subjects and also measure the estradiol levels pre and post therapy...HMMM

What medical professionals in there right mind would prescribe a person with a pre exisiting heart problem on TRT for the fact that it can cause thickening of the blood potentially causes major heart complications? SEriously !!>

Also look at the study group for god sakes its a bunch of older men probably with severe PTSD from vietnam war who have been through hell and back.

Any one with half a brain can see the flaws in this study and what the true message is..

This is just the start of all the BS to come when Obama Care smacks us upside the head when we least except it.

Personally, If people are on drugs I would work to find access to alternative source or stock pile up because one day they may not be there. Being in the health field I can see changes on a monthly basis and it is not pretty..
 

pmgamer18

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As Matrix knows I am a server of open heart bypass surgery. My blockages were due to all the yrs. of being Secondary but told I was Primary. And all my labs were screaming I was Secondary yet every Dr. I seen told me my Growth Hormones were good along with my Cortisol and Thyroid levels because they were in the normal range but at the bottom of them.

After all them yrs. this cause me to have two 99% blockages going to my heart. I did not have a heart attack but I had bad heartburn. My Dr. is a dam good Dr. and after doing a stress test that showed nothing he pushed BCBS to approve a 24 bit scan on my heart.

Dr.'s could not under stand how I was live and walking around. After they opened me up things looked so bad they were not going to do the bypass. But my Heart Dr. told the surgeon he all ready has the artery's to do the bypass so do it.

He did and was shocked to see my heart take right off and start working normal.

Now for the kicker this Dr. took me off TRT that did the surgery even after it said in my chart not to.

Things went bad I got a bad infection in my sternum and needed to be opened up again. Because the infection ruined the bones in my chest they could not wire my chest together so they needed to put me in a coma for 14 weeks trying things like a plate in my chest and ending up pulling my chest muscles across my chest and sowing them together.

Still the infection went on until my Family Hormone Dr. heard I was not doing well and came to see me.

The first thing he seen was I was not on my TRT and after some words with the Dr.'s in the ICU they put me back on TRT and here I am alive and I just turned 70.

No one can tell my going on TRT is bad and will damage your heart. My thinking is the heart is a muscle and low T will damage it.

My heart got blocked up due to low hormones like Growth Hormone. I have been on TRT over 33 yrs all this crap about men going on TRT is not helping and now Lawyers are looking for clients on TV saying if you were on TRT and had a heart attack or a stroke call us.

This is not going to go well we need to figure out a way to be heard and go after them on this.

I understand Nelson Vergel is putting something together to fight this at his forum.
http://www.excelmale.com/forum.php
First of all you need to look at who is financing the study to see what there motive is.

Personally a lot of research is rigged and fabricated to get a desired out come to appease the powers to be running it in the first place. How about we put this up against a double blind study to really test it with more definitive criteria for the subjects and also measure the estradiol levels pre and post therapy...HMMM

What medical professionals in there right mind would prescribe a person with a pre exisiting heart problem on TRT for the fact that it can cause thickening of the blood potentially causes major heart complications? SEriously !!>

Also look at the study group for god sakes its a bunch of older men probably with severe PTSD from vietnam war who have been through hell and back.

Any one with half a brain can see the flaws in this study and what the true message is..

This is just the start of all the BS to come when Obama Care smacks us upside the head when we least except it.

Personally, If people are on drugs I would work to find access to alternative source or stock pile up because one day they may not be there. Being in the health field I can see changes on a monthly basis and it is not pretty..
 
ZiR RED

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First of all you need to look at who is financing the study to see what there motive is.

Personally a lot of research is rigged and fabricated to get a desired out come to appease the powers to be running it in the first place. How about we put this up against a double blind study to really test it with more definitive criteria for the subjects and also measure the estradiol levels pre and post therapy...HMMM

What medical professionals in there right mind would prescribe a person with a pre exisiting heart problem on TRT for the fact that it can cause thickening of the blood potentially causes major heart complications? SEriously !!>

Also look at the study group for god sakes its a bunch of older men probably with severe PTSD from vietnam war who have been through hell and back.

Any one with half a brain can see the flaws in this study and what the true message is..

This is just the start of all the BS to come when Obama Care smacks us upside the head when we least except it.

Personally, If people are on drugs I would work to find access to alternative source or stock pile up because one day they may not be there. Being in the health field I can see changes on a monthly basis and it is not pretty..
I agree with just about everything you stated. As a researcher, I am well aware of designing studies specifically to find significant findings, and the [very sad] fact that many medical and scientific journals will not publish work unless the findings are significant, regardless of the clinical or applicable applications.

The statement in bold I question, mostly because TRT is becoming more popular and I would assume poses a large opportunity for the pharmaceutical business to profit. But again, that is just pure speculation in light of the history of big-pharma and our law makers...
 
napalm

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The statement in bold I question, mostly because TRT is becoming more popular and I would assume poses a large opportunity for the pharmaceutical business to profit. But again, that is just pure speculation in light of the history of big-pharma and our law makers...
Meh, that's just matrix spreading gloom and doom.

Nothing new...
 
The Matrix

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Meh, that's just matrix spreading gloom and doom.

Nothing new...
There has already been times where testosterone went into shortage in the past and it was not a very pleasant experience.

I just planned to be proactive because one never knows what future holds. I am not one who takes chances..
 
ohiostate2827

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i was thinking about this today.. what if i can get my test or AI or my anti prolactin meds anymore.. what to do? thinking of tryin to stop the test and aromasin again
 

pmgamer18

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ohiostate2827,

Please don't do this to your self I have been on TRT 33 yrs and was taken off it seeing Endos back in the day if I was not feeling great on TRT Dr.'s that I seen would send me to see an Endo. Each time the dam Endo would tell me some crap about my labs not being anygood and I need to stop TRT so he can do base line labs.

This happened to me 7 times until I put my foot down each time it was a time frame of 4 to 12 weeks each time I crashed and was so dam sick I could not work and would end up on sick leave. Now what did the Dam Endo find out nothing because once you are on TRT more the 8 weeks your shut down for life and stopping your not going to come back up.

After all the the dam Endo still did not get it right for the first 20 yrs I was told I am Primary my testis don't work well enough to keep my T levels up. It was after I foung a good Dr. up on TRT and his putting me on HCG with my Depo T shots that we seen the HCG make my levels go up from 600 to 1200 showing I am Secondary it's called Hypopituitary.

It was after this they did an MRI on my Pituitary found some damage from a head injury due to an Auto Accident I had 34 yrs ago and having a Pituitary Dr. look over my old labs he said my labs were screaming I am Secondary. So after this my new Dr. start to treat all the hormoens that were in rang but low. Thyroid, Cortisol, Ferriein, Aldosterone and Growth Hormone. It was after this I started to feel 100%.

I need to tell you each time I was taken off TRT and put back on it it took longer to get my levels back up and to feel better. I don't know why it is but everyday at one forum or the other or some new guy joining the forum I Co. Mod at want to quit TRT thinking they don't need it. But it's to late I try to tell men find out why your low before going on TRT and if it can be fixed fix it and your levels will come back up.

I tell them flat out going on TRT more then 8 weeks your on it for life. And all them yrs that other hormoens were not treated did my heart in five yrs. ago I had open heart bypass surgery. My blockages were due to low Growth Hormones all them yrs were Dr.'s that did not know what they were doing told me I am fine my levels are in the normal range. I did not have a heart attack just some bad hearburn testing showed I had two 99% blockages going to my heart and the Dr. could not understand how I was stil a live.

So don't mess around going off your TRT I do what I do at the forums because I don't want to see other men suffer like I did think about what your doing.
i was thinking about this today.. what if i can get my test or AI or my anti prolactin meds anymore.. what to do? thinking of tryin to stop the test and aromasin again
 
The Matrix

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We have been looking into certain combination of natural herbs backed by published research which use together in a specific delivery method to hopefully create a nice square wave of 500-600 total testosterone while keeping e2/shbg in check. We are getting ready to test it out very soon in a controlled environment under certain criteria.
 

JReinhal

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We have been looking into certain combination of natural herbs backed by published research which use together in a specific delivery method to hopefully create a nice square wave of 500-600 total testosterone while keeping e2/shbg in check. We are getting ready to test it out very soon in a controlled environment under certain criteria.
Well hell, keep me informed for sure.
 

kisaj

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We have been looking into certain combination of natural herbs backed by published research which use together in a specific delivery method to hopefully create a nice square wave of 500-600 total testosterone while keeping e2/shbg in check. We are getting ready to test it out very soon in a controlled environment under certain criteria.
Would that be something for those not already on TRT, or possibly as an alternative for those of us already on?
 
ohiostate2827

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We have been looking into certain combination of natural herbs backed by published research which use together in a specific delivery method to hopefully create a nice square wave of 500-600 total testosterone while keeping e2/shbg in check. We are getting ready to test it out very soon in a controlled environment under certain criteria.
Keep me updated.. every problem has a solution
 
eyenstein

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Giving blood a few times a year is supposed to help with high roc values. My Endo recommended this when he first put me on. This may have already been said and if so, sorry for repost.
 
The Matrix

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Would that be something for those not already on TRT, or possibly as an alternative for those of us already on?
The goal is to get not to need TRT or find alternative ways. I have colleagues who all they do is look at enzyme and biochemical pathways all day to come up with ways to circumvent ones which are not working properly. Some of my clients who all under medical supervision where we have been working to get their other systems back into proper balance so when this is initiated the environment will be optimal for a response. I am going out Seattle to attend a medical conference involving methylation and epigenetic given by a colleague Ben Lynch who specializes in these pathways from a genetic perspective. Once we bring both our unique experiences together the possibilties to finally stop chasing the estrobunny will be getting closer.
 
thebigt

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I was listening to the Diane Rhem show on NPR. It is scary how a group of androphobs can misrepresent the facts when they want to change something. You can listen to it on line here http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2014-02-06/risks-and-benefits-prescribing-testosterone. There was a bunch of comments from people challenging the show and disagreeing with the bias of the host and its guests, but they were removed. I think we are in for a fight.
The fems are blaming Testosterone for all the evils of a$$hole men, and are set to remove it from use. It is time to write letters to the FDA and NPR. They need to hear positive feedback from normal men who dont beat their wives.
the fem's are even worse today...I tell every man, never see a female doctor for anything hormone related.
 

kisaj

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the fem's are even worse today...I tell every man, never see a female doctor for anything hormone related.
Oh man, this is the truth. Happened twice and it will never happen again. The last time my doc was busy and tried to pass of the PA who was a woman and I said thanks but no thanks I will reschedule.
 
thebigt

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Oh man, this is the truth. Happened twice and it will never happen again. The last time my doc was busy and tried to pass of the PA who was a woman and I said thanks but no thanks I will reschedule.
bad news is the medical profession is more and more becoming female dominated, and they are being taught that masculinity is toxic!!!!
 
scherbs

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bad news is the medical profession is more and more becoming female dominated, and they are being taught that masculinity is toxic!!!!
Then stereotyping a doc strictly on the makeup of their sex genotype will definitely teach them!
Prejudge all you want for yourself, but I've had both male and female endos with no complaints or notable differences between the two.
 
grondi

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Test has nothing to do with violence right? That just depends on the personality of the person to begin with. And problems start when hormones are out of balance....
If Test is the problem, then what they (NPR interview) are saying that prior to the wide spread use of Test, there were no bad men up to that point on earth. No serial killers?? No guys ever picked fights for no reason?? There were no jerks?? Nobody starting any wars??
Just a happy bunch on earth who just got along always thru history??

Gee I want what they are putting in their morning cereal...
Grondi
 
The Matrix

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Stereo typing medical professionals based upon gender is bullshit. You know the doctors who are actually taking my consideration from clients are 80% female? Many of them have actually called me to discuss the information they received in regards to recomendations and research provided in my notes about hormones as they were intrigued. My wife is an APRN honestly, I would go to a female medical professional any day as they have more compassionate and bed side matter This is my experience with medical professionals here and in other countries. They have less ego and want to truly help and better understand more then the typical male doctor
 
thebigt

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Stereo typing medical professionals based upon gender is bullshit. You know the doctors who are actually taking my consideration from clients are 80% female? Many of them have actually called me to discuss the information they received in regards to recomendations and research provided in my notes about hormones as they were intrigued. My wife is an APRN honestly, I would go to a female medical professional any day as they have more compassionate and bed side matter This is my experience with medical professionals here and in other countries. They have less ego and want to truly help and better understand more then the typical male doctor
more power to ya....I will never, ever see a female doc for anything hormonal and will continue to tell other men not to either....hey man, I think you are bullshit for judging me without walking a mile in my shoes.

btw-my wife will not see a male doc for her female issues either.
 
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thebigt

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Then stereotyping a doc strictly on the makeup of their sex genotype will definitely teach them!
Prejudge all you want for yourself, but I've had both male and female endos with no complaints or notable differences between the two.
it's acceptable for you to have a opinion based on your experience, but it's not acceptable for me to have a opinion based on my experience?
 
scherbs

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it's acceptable for you to have a opinion based on your experience, but it's not acceptable for me to have a opinion based on my experience?
Your opinion literally is that female doctors hold the same beliefs. Pretty much the definition of an unjustified stereotype, so. . No-you can't logically hold that opinion.

But that might be my first mistake-trying to argue based off of logic.
I give in;you do you. These days we seem to all be doing away with rational thought and fact based arguement.
 
thebigt

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Your opinion literally is that female doctors hold the same beliefs. Pretty much the definition of an unjustified stereotype, so. . No-you can't logically hold that opinion.

But that might be my first mistake-trying to argue based off of logic.
I give in;you do you. These days we seem to all be doing away with rational thought and fact based arguement.
wow...thank you for giving me permission to see doctor of my choice...

I bet you support welfare for all?
 
The Matrix

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When you actually interact with multiple medical professionals from a diversity of different medical specialties you will see the reality of things. I interact with doctors globally on daily basis. For every one male doctor I interact with there will be 2 or more females wanting to learn and expand knowledge putting ego aside. Have you gone to an IFM conference? Females out power male almost 3:1. Seeing from the medical side you see a different picture and new set of lenses
 
rob112

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When you actually interact with multiple medical professionals from a diversity of different medical specialties you will see the reality of things. I interact with doctors globally on daily basis. For every one male doctor I interact with there will be 2 or more females wanting to learn and expand knowledge putting ego aside. Have you gone to an IFM conference? Females out power male almost 3:1. Seeing from the medical side you see a different picture and new set of lenses
3:1...but who was wage gap?
 
thebigt

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When you actually interact with multiple medical professionals from a diversity of different medical specialties you will see the reality of things. I interact with doctors globally on daily basis. For every one male doctor I interact with there will be 2 or more females wanting to learn and expand knowledge putting ego aside. Have you gone to an IFM conference? Females out power male almost 3:1. Seeing from the medical side you see a different picture and new set of lenses
hey man, save the politically correct speeches for another topic...no one said females aren't good doctors, for everything except male hormone related issues.
 
The Matrix

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The doctor I trust with my hormone is a female ND No one else. She spends more time researching and advising doctors then any one out there.
Dr Carrie Jones ND medical director Precision hormones. She is also a good friend and we work in collaboration on latest research in new trends on TRT
 
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thebigt

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The doctor I trust with my hormone is a female ND No one else. She spends more time researching and advising doctors then any one out there.
Dr Carrie Jones ND medical director Precision hormones. She is also a good friend and we work in collaboration on latest research in new trends on TRT
lol...thankfully you only have 1 'hormone'...just kidding!!!
 

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Just for the record...I go to an integrative medicine practice for my TRT and my dr is a woman. Her ex husband is a friend of mind and is a trauma surgeon and professor at wake forest university bowman gray school of medicine. She’s great and so is he.
 
John Smeton

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after five years on trt nd insurance covering it, my insurance denied me...They made me do psa, and hematocrit test on top of the blood work i got done, thank God......then they denied. I wrote them a letter and sent my lab work over four years . anyways, my script was getting low so my local pharmacy and I worked something out, I payed out of pocket.

Thankful for all of this. Nothing can take the place of peace of mind.
 

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