Pregnolone and DHEA - AnabolicMinds.com

Pregnolone and DHEA

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    Pregnolone and DHEA


    It's weird that I have been hearing and reading so much about this lately because I had to call my endo today to update insurance info and he quickly ran through my charts on the phone. He asked if we had ever discussed adding this in and I said no, that we found a good protocol with my test cyp injects and I felt really good. He tells me that I am mid range and that he think I could feel even better if I were in the top range for DHEA and now wants me to take sublingual DHEA 25mg 2xd and 50mg of pregnolone and then run labs in a month.

    I just picked the stuff up that he recommended, so I guess we'll be seeing how this works out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kisaj View Post
    It's weird that I have been hearing and reading so much about this lately because I had to call my endo today to update insurance info and he quickly ran through my charts on the phone. He asked if we had ever discussed adding this in and I said no, that we found a good protocol with my test cyp injects and I felt really good. He tells me that I am mid range and that he think I could feel even better if I were in the top range for DHEA and now wants me to take sublingual DHEA 25mg 2xd and 50mg of pregnolone and then run labs in a month.

    I just picked the stuff up that he recommended, so I guess we'll be seeing how this works out.
    Would you mind identifying which products you purchased?

    I am uisng transdermal DHEA, but I understand that does not impact sex hormones in the same way as does oral administration.

    As to the pregnenolone, will you be taking that sublingually as well?
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    I actually bought oral DHEA because he told me that regardless of the few studies stating otherwise, that it is very effective and almost all his patients use it. The pregnenolone is sublingual per his recommendation. I am up in my office and don't have the packaging so I do not know the brand names, but can post that up later.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kisaj View Post
    I actually bought oral DHEA because he told me that regardless of the few studies stating otherwise, that it is very effective and almost all his patients use it. The pregnenolone is sublingual per his recommendation. I am up in my office and don't have the packaging so I do not know the brand names, but can post that up later.
    Thank you.

    I know regular DHEA is dirt cheap and so is sublingual (Swanson, etc.).

    I'll be interested in looking at/for sublingual pregnenolone.
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    Ok, I called my wife to look at the bottle. The brand is Superior Source. I will say that it does not dissolve instantly like it says, but keeping it under your tongue for 30-45 sec and it gets soft enough to crush with your tongue. I can't say if this is a good brand as I have only tried the one dose, but I will say that I have been hyper since taking it. Not really physically hyper, but mentally I am very aware. I have no idea if this is normal, but I do like it.
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    Glad to see your Dr recommended this run just as I mentioned the combination in the other log. I will be watching to see how your adjusting and feeling taking this if you plan on updating.

    Thanks
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    Yeah, the timing of my call to him and your thread, amongst others that have posted, is interesting. I never would have thought of it.
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    Do you have any specific goals while on TRT?
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    Nothing I have not already achieved. I have been on for a little over 3 years and it's the best decision I have ever made.

    I should add that I am very active and have been lifting seriously for 22 years, so this didn't change that aspect, but it does allow me to do it at nearly the same level as I did at 25. As most of nearing or in our 40s understand is that so many guys just start falling apart around 30ish and there becomes a choice of giving in to nature or kicking nature in the ass and saying "not this guy".
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    Ok, Onlychevy6, let me ask you this: what do you feel on a day to day basis with preg and dhea? I mean, I have only taken this today and it feels almost recreational. My wife asked what I was on and my coworker told me I was smiling all day. I find it hard to believe that this could be a daily feeling because it is so happy and energizing.

    What has been your experience?
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    Quote Originally Posted by kisaj View Post
    Ok, Onlychevy6, let me ask you this: what do you feel on a day to day basis with preg and dhea? I mean, I have only taken this today and it feels almost recreational. My wife asked what I was on and my coworker told me I was smiling all day. I find it hard to believe that this could be a daily feeling because it is so happy and energizing. What has been your experience?
    Pretty much what you just said is what most experience. I would just continue what your doing and ride it out and enjoy.
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    Yeah buddy, today was wonderful as well. I feel almost embarrassed that I dismissed these two additional pieces to TRT and did not talk about it with my doc earlier. I guess it is all a learning experience along the way. All I know is that I thank you and others for bringing it up because it made me start reading all the doctors that are now supporting this. I'm also glad I happened to call my own doc yesterday.
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    Well 4 days in and I called my doc to thank him. I feel like a completely different person. I thought I was feeling great on just test, and rightfully so, I was. But now I have more energy than I know what to do with, my memory and recall is already significantly better, and I am very level. I like to think of it as balanced. I just feel really balanced and like I am firing on all cylinders. The thing that is really blowing me away is my mental clarity and the ability to find words I don't even know where I learned from- they just pop in my head. Also, situations that slight anxiety would creep in (board meeting today), felt calm and ready for.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kisaj View Post
    Well 4 days in and I called my doc to thank him. I feel like a completely different person. I thought I was feeling great on just test, and rightfully so, I was. But now I have more energy than I know what to do with, my memory and recall is already significantly better, and I am very level. I like to think of it as balanced. I just feel really balanced and like I am firing on all cylinders. The thing that is really blowing me away is my mental clarity and the ability to find words I don't even know where I learned from- they just pop in my head.
    Wow - that is awesome news. I am happy for you. I may have to give pregnenolone a try.
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    Yeah beau, I am very happy right now.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kisaj View Post
    Yeah beau, I am very happy right now.
    I have noticed an improvement from resuming ALCAR and Choline, but with preg being SO inexpensive, I am going to give it a go. I believe I have some 30 mg capsules.
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    I have a brand new bottle of 100mg pregnenolone capsules, I'll give them a try. Should maybe break open the capsule and sprinkle half the contents under my tongue?

    I've also got a brand new bottle of 15mg DHEA cream. I'll try them both out for a few days and let you guys know.
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    I've started taking DHEA and PREG transdermally again. It used to give me acne but I'm fine now with it and do feel better. It's Dermacrine, just under two pumps. I've definitely needed it cos my adrenals are shot and DHEA has always been low for ages.
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    I have been taking a single 50mg in the morning with 25mg of DHEA at around 6am on an empty stomach. Not once in 4 days have I felt a slight bit lazy or unmotivated until I start unwinding around 10pm or so.
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    Thanks for sharing your experience man- glad you are loving it!

    I have a bottle of Dermacrine and a bottle Transaderm now I'm looking forward to starting these.

    Beau how come you don't think the transdermals will give the same effect?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ELROCK View Post
    Beau how come you don't think the transdermals will give the same effect?
    I will have to find the study, but the conclusion (correct or incorrect, and I remember it as being correct), was that transdermal DHEA offered all of the DHEA benefits, except for those unique to its sexual hormone affect. That obviously isn't the case for other hormones/prohormones.

    Again, I will have to see if I can find it. I'll look. It may have something to do with transdermal DHEA not convertinh to DHEA-S.

    But, honestly, I will have to "re-find" the study.

    Purportedly there are ways of increasing DHEA transdermally, via "magnesium oil" (which is actually not an oil). I have no experience with this, and know some believe it is snake oil. But, for example, Mike Mahler believes transdermal magnesium oil is the best way to boost DHEA "naturally".

    But as to oral administration:

    Oral DHEA does work, at least following HIIT.

    Eur. J. Appl. Physiol., 2013

    Effect of acute DHEA administration on free testosterone in middle-aged and young men following high-intensity interval training

    Liu, TC; Lin, CH; Huang, CY; Ivy, JL; Kuo, CH

    With advancing age, plasma testosterone levels decline, with free testosterone levels declining more significantly than total testosterone. This fall is thought to underlie the development of physical and mental weakness that occurs with advancing age. In addition, vigorous exercise can also lower total and free testosterone levels with the decline greatest in physically untrained men.

    The purpose of the study was to evaluate the effect of oral DHEA supplementation, a testosterone precursor, on free testosterone in sedentary middle-aged men during recovery from a high-intensity interval training (HIIT) bout of exercise. A randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled crossover study was conducted for 8 middle-aged participants (aged 49.3 ? 2.4 years) and an additional 8 young control participants (aged 21.4 ? 0.3 years). Each participant received DHEA (50 mg) and placebo on separate occasions one night (12 h) before a 5-session, 2-min cycling exercise (100 % [Formula: see text]).

    While no significant age difference in total testosterone was found, middle-aged participants exhibited significantly lower free testosterone and greater luteinizing hormone (LH) levels than the young control group. Oral DHEA supplementation increased circulating DHEA-S and free testosterone levels well above baseline in the middle-aged group, with no significant effect on total testosterone levels. Total testosterone and DHEA-S dropped significantly until 24 h after HIIT for both age groups, while free testosterone of DHEA-supplemented middle-aged men remained unaffected.

    These results demonstrate acute oral DHEA supplementation can elevate free testosterone levels in middle-aged men and prevent it from declining during HIIT. Therefore, DHEA supplementation may have significant benefits related to HIIT adaptation.

    In addition, I've just learned that DHEA can lower SHBG. This, of course, would lead to a rise in free testosterone.

    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1...nticated=false

    "The effect of six months treatment with a 100 mg daily dose of dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) on circulating sex steroids, body composition and muscle strength in age-advanced men and women"

    "While on DHEA, serum SHBG levels declined with a greater (P < 0.02) response in women (−40 8%; P = 0.002) than in men (−5 4%; P = 0.02)."
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    I had never heard of Dermacrine, but that is some expensive stuff for the ingredient profile ( and only 3.6mg preg)and would be hard to really know how much you are getting of each ingredient. If I am messing with something that is obviously a very powerful hormone, I want to know what I am taking. Pregnolone and DHEA are no joke.

    Not saying don't take it, but there is a cheaper and more accurate way once that is gone by buying the ingredients separate.

    There is no question in my mind that oral DHEA works, and I highly doubt that endos would continue telling patients to use it if labs weren't proving it so. Also, I am on TRT, so the effect I am getting may be greater than those that are not.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beau View Post
    I will have to find the study, but the conclusion (correct or incorrect, and I remember it as being correct), was that transdermal DHEA offered all of the DHEA benefits, except for those unique to its sexual hormone affect. That obviously isn't the case for other hormones/prohormones. Again, I will have to see if I can find it. I'll look. It may have something to do with transdermal DHEA not convertinh to DHEA-S. But, honestly, I will have to "re-find" the study. Purportedly there are ways of increasing DHEA transdermally, via "magnesium oil" (which is actually not an oil). I have no experience with this, and know some believe it is snake oil. But, for example, Mike Mahler believes transdermal magnesium oil is the best way to boost DHEA "naturally". But as to oral administration: Oral DHEA does work, at least following HIIT. Eur. J. Appl. Physiol., 2013 Effect of acute DHEA administration on free testosterone in middle-aged and young men following high-intensity interval training Liu, TC; Lin, CH; Huang, CY; Ivy, JL; Kuo, CH With advancing age, plasma testosterone levels decline, with free testosterone levels declining more significantly than total testosterone. This fall is thought to underlie the development of physical and mental weakness that occurs with advancing age. In addition, vigorous exercise can also lower total and free testosterone levels with the decline greatest in physically untrained men. The purpose of the study was to evaluate the effect of oral DHEA supplementation, a testosterone precursor, on free testosterone in sedentary middle-aged men during recovery from a high-intensity interval training (HIIT) bout of exercise. A randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled crossover study was conducted for 8 middle-aged participants (aged 49.3 ? 2.4 years) and an additional 8 young control participants (aged 21.4 ? 0.3 years). Each participant received DHEA (50 mg) and placebo on separate occasions one night (12 h) before a 5-session, 2-min cycling exercise (100 % [Formula: see text]). While no significant age difference in total testosterone was found, middle-aged participants exhibited significantly lower free testosterone and greater luteinizing hormone (LH) levels than the young control group. Oral DHEA supplementation increased circulating DHEA-S and free testosterone levels well above baseline in the middle-aged group, with no significant effect on total testosterone levels. Total testosterone and DHEA-S dropped significantly until 24 h after HIIT for both age groups, while free testosterone of DHEA-supplemented middle-aged men remained unaffected. These results demonstrate acute oral DHEA supplementation can elevate free testosterone levels in middle-aged men and prevent it from declining during HIIT. Therefore, DHEA supplementation may have significant benefits related to HIIT adaptation. In addition, I've just learned that DHEA can lower SHBG. This, of course, would lead to a rise in free testosterone. http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1...nticated=false "The effect of six months treatment with a 100 mg daily dose of dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) on circulating sex steroids, body composition and muscle strength in age-advanced men and women" "While on DHEA, serum SHBG levels declined with a greater (P < 0.02) response in women (-40 8%; P = 0.002) than in men (-5 4%; P = 0.02)."
    Good post thanks for the info.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kisaj View Post
    I had never heard of Dermacrine, but that is some expensive stuff for the ingredient profile ( and only 3.6mg preg)and would be hard to really know how much you are getting of each ingredient. If I am messing with something that is obviously a very powerful hormone, I want to know what I am taking. Pregnolone and DHEA are no joke. Not saying don't take it, but there is a cheaper and more accurate way once that is gone by buying the ingredients separate. There is no question in my mind that oral DHEA works, and I highly doubt that endos would continue telling patients to use it if labs weren't proving it so. Also, I am on TRT, so the effect I am getting may be greater than those that are not.
    I did purchase the Dermacrine and Transaderm when they were on big sales, but I hear ya there are cheaper options. If DHEA and Preg are something I wind up liking I probably will opt for the cheaper sublingual versions. And yes I am also on TRT.
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    I'm cutting up soon can't decide if I wanna go all natural or use something like dermacrine, formeron and 11 keto
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    Quote Originally Posted by ELROCK View Post
    Thanks for sharing your experience man- glad you are loving it!

    I have a bottle of Dermacrine and a bottle Transaderm now I'm looking forward to starting these.

    Beau how come you don't think the transdermals will give the same effect?
    They do have the same effect. DHEA and PREG are even better transdermally, you don't need as much. If you have severe thyroid issues that you're not being treated for, it may not work due to thick skin, but that's an extreme case.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kisaj View Post
    I had never heard of Dermacrine, but that is some expensive stuff for the ingredient profile ( and only 3.6mg preg)and would be hard to really know how much you are getting of each ingredient. If I am messing with something that is obviously a very powerful hormone, I want to know what I am taking. Pregnolone and DHEA are no joke.

    Not saying don't take it, but there is a cheaper and more accurate way once that is gone by buying the ingredients separate.

    There is no question in my mind that oral DHEA works, and I highly doubt that endos would continue telling patients to use it if labs weren't proving it so. Also, I am on TRT, so the effect I am getting may be greater than those that are not.

    You don't need as much of the active when using transderamally. It absorbs much more this way. I don't have the percentages off the top of my head though.

    Oral DHEA simply converts too much to estrogen though. I don't agree with it one bit. This has been covered on this forum in depth before. Transdermal is far superior, sublingual 2nd best, oral is the worst.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JD261985 View Post
    I'm cutting up soon can't decide if I wanna go all natural or use something like dermacrine, formeron and 11 keto
    Formestane (formeron) lowers E2 and DHT. You want your libido to plummet then try it out. Not sure why so many people swear by it, it's got to be the worst AI out there. It's only hype surrounding it, because it's a legally obtainable AI, but it just happens to be the worst one.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kisaj View Post
    Well 4 days in and I called my doc to thank him. I feel like a completely different person. I thought I was feeling great on just test, and rightfully so, I was. But now I have more energy than I know what to do with, my memory and recall is already significantly better, and I am very level. I like to think of it as balanced. I just feel really balanced and like I am firing on all cylinders. The thing that is really blowing me away is my mental clarity and the ability to find words I don't even know where I learned from- they just pop in my head. Also, situations that slight anxiety would creep in (board meeting today), felt calm and ready for.
    Really happy this worked out for you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutterpump View Post

    Formestane (formeron) lowers E2 and DHT. You want your libido to plummet then try it out. Not sure why so many people swear by it, it's got to be the worst AI out there. It's only hype surrounding it, because it's a legally obtainable AI, but it just happens to be the worst one.
    I agree, it absolutely killed my libido when I used it for a couple days.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutterpump View Post
    You don't need as much of the active when using transderamally. It absorbs much more this way. I don't have the percentages off the top of my head though.

    Oral DHEA simply converts too much to estrogen though. I don't agree with it one bit. This has been covered on this forum in depth before. Transdermal is far superior, sublingual 2nd best, oral is the worst.
    Yeah, I could find more studies that say the effects on estrogen conversion are minimal and have been over played. In any case...

    I am not here to argue this point because the effects I am experiencing are staggering and everyone can choose their own path. It makes no difference to me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lexmuscle View Post
    I agree, it absolutely killed my libido when I used it for a couple days.
    Lex, not t be rude, but you really are a poor example because you are continually chasing what works for you and make new posts every other day. You need to go back and start from the beginning. How you would know what is or isn't working for you, I have no idea.

    The loss of libido is non-existent for me and I really doubt with this being a sensitive subject for most guys, that this would continue to be a product so many love. This sounds like a bit of hate.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kisaj View Post

    Lex, not t be rude, but you really are a poor example because you are continually chasing what works for you and make new posts every other day. You need to go back and start from the beginning. How you would know what is or isn't working for you, I have no idea.

    The loss of libido is non-existent for me and I really doubt with this being a sensitive subject for most guys, that this would continue to be a product so many love. This sounds like a bit of hate.
    Simply agreeing with Gutterpump, it seems to be a libido killer for some. For others it's a great product. Just like Finasteride, it f-cked me royally, and many others aren't even phased by it.
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    Nuff said. It would be great if this stayed on Preg and DHEA and not a Formeron thread moving forward.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutterpump View Post
    I've started taking DHEA and PREG transdermally again. It used to give me acne but I'm fine now with it and do feel better. It's Dermacrine, just under two pumps. I've definitely needed it cos my adrenals are shot and DHEA has always been low for ages.
    i've been on trt for close to 6 years now, and dermacrine is fantastic. i have been combining it with formestane[formasurge] and the difference is remarkable!!!
    BPS REP-DERMACRINE/ENDOSURGE....COMBUSTION/DCP 2.0
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    Are there any dangers with using Pregnenolone? I read somewhere that either high doses of Pregnenolone or Progesterone were used for chemical castration for sex offenders. I'll try to find the article, anyone read that?
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    Never heard anything like that.

    These are obviously very powerful hormones, so I would never tell anyone to go just start taking it without knowing if you need or would benefit from it. Outside of test cyp for TRT, I have never experienced anything like it for mood and energy change.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kisaj View Post
    Never heard anything like that.

    These are obviously very powerful hormones, so I would never tell anyone to go just start taking it without knowing if you need or would benefit from it. Outside of test cyp for TRT, I have never experienced anything like it for mood and energy change.
    Just looked it up, it's progesterone injections that are used for chemical castration of male sex offenders.
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    So how much Pregnenolone do most of you guys take? I've got the oral 100mg caps, might go for the 25mg sublingual. I'm taking transdermal DHEA 15mg starting yesterday with 100mg Pregnenolone. These are different brands than I took before, and I've had no negative side effects thus far. When I took oral DHEA and oral Preg, I became very irritable and my heart was pounding for hours. Would DHEA even be needed if you're taking Preg, since Preg supposedly converts to DHEA? Maybe raising my low DHEA levels will have a positive effect on something, not sure what my Preg levels are.
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    Lex, what are we going to do with you, man? Why don't you check with your doc to see if you should be adding this in. This goes back to my previous point that you keep adding all this stuff into your system and you never get back to the basics to see what is actually wrong.
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