29yo with 362 total test- Something to be concerned about?

[thomps5]

29yo/5'9"/170lbs (pretty lean)

Hey guys
My wife and I went to a VERY reputable fertility specialist (reproductive endo) to get everything "checked out" to make sure we were in tip top shape to start trying to have a baby. While there, i had the Doc draw my blood cause i was curious to see what my test levels looked like.

..boy was i disappointed in the results (blood drawn at 9:30am):

Results/scale
FSH: 6.46 (1.27-19.26)
LH: 5.36 (1.24-8.62)
Total Test: 362.75 (205-781)
Inhibit B- 104

My sperm specimen also came back below normal and less than ideal for having a baby (low motility)

The doc read my results and was basically like "FSH looks good, LH looks good, test looks really good" and than moved on to my wifes results. I didn't know what i was looking at so i didnt dispute but when i got home, i started researching and realized that total test of 362 is REALLY low at 29 years old! Doc just gave me an expensive multi-vitamin and said ZIP about low levels for my age.

I realize the labs are missing some vital information such as total test/estrodiol, etc. But this is all i have at this point.

Hoping someone that is familiar with this topic may be able to chime in with their thoughts on my levels and maybe why the doctor didn't even take a second look at them.


(additional info for those that care to read)
cant say i have blatant symptoms of low T:
- I don't feel abnormally lethargic/sluggish beyond working out a lot and averaging only 6hrs of sleep per night (i am a night owl)-
- I don't have depression or anxiety issues
- I have regular sex urges, especially in the morning (not popping morning wood every day but do get the "urge")
- For my size, my strength is impressive. I don't pack on muscle like i would like but i know i don't eat enough and sleeping 6hrs/night cant help (i also enjoy a little pot on the weekends..if that even matters..).

When i was younger (including 18/19yrs old), i gave anabolic pro hormones a shot, mostly due to low self esteem (was 135lbs soaking wet), ignorance, and bad advice from fellow idiots. Always ran a OTC PCT or SERM regiment and felt like I "recovered fine".


So all that being said. Am I over thinking this 362 total test level? While i don't feel like i have symptoms, it makes me wonder how much better things would be if my levels were in the 600-900 range like a "normal 29 year olds" should be.

Any thoughts are appreciated guys. I have been stressed out a bit over the issue and am not sure if i really have something to be worried about or not.

Thanks in advance!

 

[ecto84]

29yo/5'9"/170lbs (pretty lean)
- I don't feel abnormally lethargic/sluggish beyond working out a lot and averaging only 6hrs of sleep per night (i am a night owl)-

You should get more sleep and more rest, maybe you are overtraining and this is causing the low test. I got my levels tested a few months ago and they were 792, but I still have trouble gaining mass and I dont feel like I was feeling at 19 yo. Maybe these test levels you have are normal for your body since you do not have the symptomps of low test.


Are you a smoker ? This could addup to not getting enough sleep and further lower sperm quality.

 

[thomps5]

Hey ecto
I appreciate the response.

I agree that I need to get more sleep. I have trouble getting in bed before 11pm and am up at 6am so right now I am at best getting 6.5 hrs per night assuming I fall asleep easily. Weekends are better..usually getting closer to 9 hrs. I take multi /fish oil /daa /protein

I have never smoked cigarettes but used to smoke pot daily. I have since cut that back to small "therapeutic" amounts on the weekend (one hitter at night to relax). I also enjoy a Bourbon on the rocks a couple times a week to relax. Not sure how much that all would effect the issue but am sure it doesn't help.

I hit the gym Monday (chest /tri), Tuesday (back/bi) Wed off, Thurs (abs /stretching /light cardio), Friday (heavy legs.. Lots of compound leg lifts), off Saturday, light cardio Sunday (4 mile run), and start all over. Been doing this routine with slight variations for quite awhile. I eat clean but know that I don't eat enough and could up my essential fats. Need to drink more water too..

I know I could do better in those areas but the low TT number is still a shock to me.

 

[kisaj]

You sound fine to me. There are a lot of variables in play with test levels and it really comes down to if you are outside of the normal range (or borderline) and how you feel. You mention that you don't exhibit any of the classic signs and that you realize your sleep isn't good- which is a big one. If you really wanted to get a good baseline, then stop smoking, drinking, and sleep well for a couple weeks and try again. It may raise the number, but is that how you want to live to bring up your test levels just to see a higher number? I wouldn't. Test numbers are a great goal, but not at the detriment of me enjoying life, and it sounds like you do without any low T symptoms.

Just my .02

 

[fueledpassion]

First of all, anything about 600 is higher than average these days especially folks pushing 30. My clinic has prescribed thousands of patients TRT and they know what the norms are for the general public.

Anyone below 350 can be justifiably given TRT. I was at 323 then 220 and they gave it to me. I'm only 27, btw. Runs in the fam. My brother is 31 and his was 190. Low T is becoming an epidemic in america much like diabetes. Cant say for sure what it is but man its a real problem for lots of us.

Thing is, I'm coasting at 850-1200 now and there isnt a HUGE difference just subtle differences. Sex drive is ok, strength is decent, and its alittle easier to stay lean. Othrr than that , not much else to benefit from TRT. You just cant have a true fountain of youth.

 

[kisaj]

Yeah, I'd have to completely disagree with that. If you truly are low T and it is not due to other issues, it is a miracle. When low test is something you have been dealing with for years, once you are on and have your protocol correct it is like a light switch turning on. Energy is up, body composition changes, recovery time is cut in half, mood is elevated, etc...The problem is that it is so hard to get right and find what levels are prefect for you. More is not better- better is better.

 

[fueledpassion]

Yeah, I'd have to completely disagree with that. If you truly are low T and it is not due to other issues, it is a miracle. When low test is something you have been dealing with for years, once you are on and have your protocol correct it is like a light switch turning on. Energy is up, body composition changes, recovery time is cut in half, mood is elevated, etc...The problem is that it is so hard to get right and find what levels are prefect for you. More is not better- better is better.

Not a single notion in my post said more is better. R u in TRT? I am. I know what it is and isnt. I've had normal levels in the 500-700 range, I've had supra levels in the 3500 range and I've had rock bottom in the sub 300 range and now have a level at the top of the ref range.

The difference between TRT and low T is moderate at best. The information I have gotten is from a TRT clinic who has studied the matter for over 10 years now. They dont publish it because it is their competitive advantage to retain the knowledge to themselves for service reasons. You could spend a lifetime trying to figure out which factor caused what and trying to experiment until finding it. Its almost easier to take TRT and let the results tell the tale of whats wrong.

I take the stuff purely for sex drive issue and it solved that problem within 3 weeks. As for the other aspects of improvement, they r minimal at best.

 

[kisaj]

I've been on TRT for 3 years now after chasing down lab after lab to determine consistently running 200-250 test levels (320-1150 scale) for years. Every single thing checked out normal other than test.

I don't really care what clinic you got information from because most of us on TRT know what a racket they are and avoid them like the plague. I am talking about real life personal experience and the feedback I get from many others I know that are on it. When you need it and are low, it is an absolute life changer.

To your comment of "You could spend a lifetime trying to figure out which factor caused what and trying to experiment until finding it. Its almost easier to take TRT and let the results tell the tale of whats wrong."- well, that is just wrong in so many ways. TRT is where you end up, not where you start. Yes, it takes a long time to figure out if you need to be on it, but it should because it is a life long commitment. I spent a year trying to get things sorted out and then almost a year getting things dialed in. It kills me how casually people just throw around TRT anymore and the clinics don't help the messaging at all.

 

[fueledpassion]

I've been on TRT for 3 years now after chasing down lab after lab to determine consistently running 200-250 test levels (320-1150 scale) for years. Every single thing checked out normal other than test.

I don't really care what clinic you got information from because most of us on TRT know what a racket they are and avoid them like the plague. I am talking about real life personal experience and the feedback I get from many others I know that are on it. When you need it and are low, it is an absolute life changer.

To your comment of "You could spend a lifetime trying to figure out which factor caused what and trying to experiment until finding it. Its almost easier to take TRT and let the results tell the tale of whats wrong."- well, that is just wrong in so many ways. TRT is where you end up, not where you start. Yes, it takes a long time to figure out if you need to be on it, but it should because it is a life long commitment. I spent a year trying to get things sorted out and then almost a year getting things dialed in. It kills me how casually people just throw around TRT anymore and the clinics don't help the messaging at all.

I'm not arguing with u man. No one throws it around but many folks already know u can run testosterone perpetually and walk away from it unscathed. The side effects are completely reversible (assuming u dont run it for years and years) except the shutdown and that particular effect is something that you already had to begin with. The way I see it as with most men, I can give it a shot for a few months and if all fails and it doesnt provide relief, then I go back to where I started and look elsewhere.

 

[sysadmn]

OP - I'd read up on "clomid male fertility" and discuss it with the endo. It could be a way to boost testosterone without being on TRT for the rest of your life.

 

[kisaj]

I suppose that is an option, but certainly not a great one.

We have a difference of opinion and that is healthy in order to have a little debate. I'll let it go.

 

[thomps5]

OP - I'd read up on "clomid male fertility" and discuss it with the endo. It could be a way to boost testosterone without being on TRT for the rest of your life.

kisaj/fueledpassion- i appreciate both of your insight and also enjoy a little healthy debate, so thank you for that.


sysadmn- I have actually been reading ALOT on clomid therapy for low T. seems that it is primarily used for treating secondary hypogonadism..not sure if that is what mine would be considered (if i even have an issue i guess). I was thinking about ordering some up from a reputable research site and running 25mg ED for 4 weeks followed by 25m EOD for another 4 weeks, slowly tapering off. And than getting my levels checked again.

Last thing i want to do is make a "non issue" a real issue by playing doctor but this therapy does look promising and i have thought about it.

 

[Chuckj1973]

I felt the need to jump in and provide my perspective. I'm in agreement with kisaj here. Been on trt for a year and the differences are not subtle, in fact they are tremendous. I'm not referring to its impact on physique, but its impact on overall health, more specifically mental health. I'm 40, and over the past 5 or so years had been feeling a sense of decline in mental clarity, chronic fatigue, anxiety, and some periods of depression. About a year before I started trt I had lost excess fat, my diet was pristine, and I was working out 5 days a week but with little change in symptoms. I actually thought I had lymes disease, so I had a full blood panel done, including all tests that fit my symptoms. Total T came back as 240, free T was way under the reference range (can't recall). Dr put me on test cyp, and all of those symptoms went away after about a month. If you feel fine, I would recommend staying away. Trt should be used to treat a problem, not reconcile a set of numbers on paper. Just my 2 cents..

 

[thomps5]

thanks chuck.
I agree with you, and the last thing on my mind is getting into a TRT schedule being i am only 29 and in the throws of trying to have my first kid. I am still somewhat toying with the idea of clomid therapy. i have been reading a lot about it and there seems to be some fairly conclusive research out there showing that its low risk at low dose and can help raise T levels significantly without risking natural shut down or infertility...plus it is not hard to get ahold of.

I also agree with everyone saying that if it is not negatively effecting me, than to not worry about it. I think in my head i was thinking that maybe i am so used to living with these "low" levels that i may just think its "the norm" and how things are supposed to be and not realize i am being negatively effected. All that being said, you guys make it sound like it is pretty blatently obvious that something is wrong when you have actual symptoms of low T.

Its all likely a product of my ignorance on the topic and me over thinking it. Its hard not to think "my life could be so much better if...." when you realize you are deficient on things like this, even if it is just on paper. Especially when its Testosterone and i am i guy that enjoys working out, being athletic, and being a MAN!

thanks again for the input everyone.

 

[jinxie]

Not a single notion in my post said more is better. R u in TRT? I am. I know what it is and isnt. I've had normal levels in the 500-700 range, I've had supra levels in the 3500 range and I've had rock bottom in the sub 300 range and now have a level at the top of the ref range.

The difference between TRT and low T is moderate at best. The information I have gotten is from a TRT clinic who has studied the matter for over 10 years now. They dont publish it because it is their competitive advantage to retain the knowledge to themselves for service reasons. You could spend a lifetime trying to figure out which factor caused what and trying to experiment until finding it. Its almost easier to take TRT and let the results tell the tale of whats wrong.

I take the stuff purely for sex drive issue and it solved that problem within 3 weeks. As for the other aspects of improvement, they r minimal at best.

You are an outlier. I am hypogonadal and went from TT 340 to TT 1000, with free T below range (around 41) to free T in the mid range, and the differences were phenomenal with regard to libido, energy level, exercise recovery, and strength. I've been on TRT for 6 years, 4.5 years on hCG monotherapy, and 1.5 years on test cyp. I had been training since a teenager, and it had gotten to the point that I had to abandon training as workouts would cause debilitating pain and exhaustion. Now I can train as little as twice per week, and I am in the best shape that I've been in since my mid to late 20s.

I suspect that your perspective may be skewed by the fact that you've run supraphysiological levels of test. The differences between 300 and 1000 vs. 300 and 3500 TT are quite significant. The real anabolic magic tends to occur when TT gets over 1200. For the everyday guy, tripling TT, from a hypogonadal condition, is going to make a significant difference, a far cry from your characterizations.

 

[fueledpassion]

You are an outlier. I am hypogonadal and went from TT 340 to TT 1000, with free T below range (around 41) to free T in the mid range, and the differences were phenomenal with regard to libido, energy level, exercise recovery, and strength. I've been on TRT for 6 years, 4.5 years on hCG monotherapy, and 1.5 years on test cyp. I had been training since a teenager, and it had gotten to the point that I had to abandon training as workouts would cause debilitating pain and exhaustion. Now I can train as little as twice per week, and I am in the best shape that I've been in since my mid to late 20s.

I suspect that your perspective may be skewed by the fact that you've run supraphysiological levels of test. The differences between 300 and 1000 vs. 300 and 3500 TT are quite significant. The real anabolic magic tends to occur when TT gets over 1200. For the everyday guy, tripling TT, from a hypogonadal condition, is going to make a significant difference, a far cry from your characterizations.

U r correct.

 

[jinxie]

U r correct.

We're friends already. I've been on hiatus from this board for a number of years, and am glad to be back, and hope to contribute positively!