6 weeks into TRT, labs show Test is lower?

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by fueledpassion View Post
    You'd be incorrect to think I missed anything regarding your statement above. I never spoke about other conditions of mine or even hinted that I didn't thoroughly look elsewhere for solutions. And I never indicated that the doctor didn't do that either.

    You guys are right about the TRT dosing. But 200 is still common place in the area I live in (regardless what you think or know about that dosing protocol). If an entire group of medical professionals are willing to do it then they probably have some validity to their reasoning.
    the validity to their reasoning is "I make a commission off the compounding pharmacy that I send him to on the testosterone, and make a commission on the additional blood tests I make him get, and make additional ______ " I'm not saying 200 isn't commonplace, but its only commonplace in antiaging or "men's clinics" that generally don't take insurance and have plenty of other shadiness. Most of them don't even have a specialization in that area, its just a quick profit like the medical fat loss. Last one here I talked to was an ear nose throat doctor by training. But that doesn't pay as well.


  2. Quote Originally Posted by fueledpassion

    so TRT doesn't shut you down? Is that what you are saying?

    I believe I need to shed more light on my situation so that you guys can understand what I meant by that statement. I came off a cycle a long while ago and went to the clinic to get endogenous medication such as HCG or Clomid for temporary use. The clinic insisted on me taking TRT since I was "eligible" for it. I chose not to. My thought was to try and get my natural HPTA working again, not placing a band-aid over it w/ TRT. They wouldn't provide me with much any other option except TRT. So I left. Why did I do that? It's simple. I wanted to have a prescription grade PCT to recover my function, not further suppress it.

    So yes, it would have clearly kept me shut down if I decided to go with TRT instead. See my point?
    Not what I said at all. My point is, if your "natural system" was doing it's job you wouldn't need trt. 2nd point is that your body is so used to the T levels on >250 that of course you wouldn't feel good at 100. That is why you're on trt correct, to feel better? Trying to follow your logic is getting a little difficult. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but it's starting to sound like previous steroid use is at the heart of your problem.
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by fueledpassion

    You'd be incorrect to think I missed anything regarding your statement above. I never spoke about other conditions of mine or even hinted that I didn't thoroughly look elsewhere for solutions. And I never indicated that the doctor didn't do that either.

    You guys are right about the TRT dosing. But 200 is still common place in the area I live in (regardless what you think or know about that dosing protocol). If an entire group of medical professionals are willing to do it then they probably have some validity to their reasoning. And to add to that, I just look at others to be a bit prideful in their position who call those professionals ignorant, a joke, or othewise incompetent in this field of study.

    That's the problem with overly scientific forums such as this one. Everyone is so sure and so prideful in their own stance that "a" truth of the matter ends up getting missed or otherwise ignored.
    I'm sorry, I don't consider the anti aging community an "entire group of medical professionals." I consider them a small vocal minority who's after one thing: $$$

    I go to an endo who's a published researcher in trt. I'll listen to his advice over the anti aging clinics.

    And if 200 is a standard trt dose where you live, I would venture to guess there's a lot of anti aging clinics in your area...

  4. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    the validity to their reasoning is "I make a commission off the compounding pharmacy that I send him to on the testosterone, and make a commission on the additional blood tests I make him get, and make additional ______ " I'm not saying 200 isn't commonplace, but its only commonplace in antiaging or "men's clinics" that generally don't take insurance and have plenty of other shadiness. Most of them don't even have a specialization in that area, its just a quick profit like the medical fat loss. Last one here I talked to was an ear nose throat doctor by training. But that doesn't pay as well.
    This is true. Although this particular clinic was in fact taking insurance. However I heard recently from a patient that they removed insurance policy and moved to cash system.

    So they look to be guilty of what you just claimed.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by napalm View Post
    I'm sorry, I don't consider the anti aging community an "entire group of medical professionals." I consider them a small vocal minority who's after one thing: $$$

    I go to an endo who's a published researcher in trt. I'll listen to his advice over the anti aging clinics.

    And if 200 is a standard trt dose where you live, I would venture to guess there's a lot of anti aging clinics in your area...
    Yeah, maybe half a dozen different companies. Some with multiple locations. Its a booming business for 40-somethings that go to the gym regularly around here. Every one is jacked, lol. Even the old guys now.
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by fueledpassion View Post
    Yeah, maybe half a dozen different companies. Some with multiple locations. Its a booming business for 40-somethings that go to the gym regularly around here. Every one is jacked, lol. Even the old guys now.
    its how I started on TRT too. That was before any other anabolics, I at 39 had roughly average of around 270 total test. I tried getting appointments through insurance with endocrinologists but found out that I had a 4-6 month wait, and I wanted to do something first. First antiaging clinic prescribed 300mg /wk with .5mg arimidex EOD and 500iu HCG 2x a week, and would have happily prescribed HGH, winstrol, deca, or just about anything else as well, it was all in their price list. That doesn't make it legitimate medical help.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL
    First antiaging clinic prescribed 300mg /wk with .5mg arimidex EOD and 500iu HCG 2x a week, and would have happily prescribed HGH, winstrol, deca, or just about anything else as well, it was all in their price list. That doesn't make it legitimate medical help.
    Lord, this is a perfect example of the point I was trying to make. They're not in your best interest, but their wallets...

  8. Quote Originally Posted by napalm View Post
    Lord, this is a perfect example of the point I was trying to make. They're not in your best interest, but their wallets...
    it felt good though

  9. Quote Originally Posted by Lockout888 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by The Matrix View Post
    Not absorbing
    Switch to shots or address thyroid or adrenal issues.

    When was test taken in relationship to the application?
    How do I address thyroid or adrenal issues?

    Test was taken @ 7am without taking Axiron yet. I normally apply it around 7:30am.
    If you don't apply the T before the test then of course it is going to show low as you are 20hr+ after last application.... although I am completely guilty of doing the same thing.

    The starting dose is often very cautious on transdermals, if it were me I would at least consider trying a dosage increase before giving up on the idea completely.

    I don't understand the hate for gels... some of the best Drs recommend them..... also, more is not always more when it comes to test.

    I've achieved peak levels in excess of 1000 and can comfortably keep a nice 700 on testogel (aka androgel), I just don't get why so few are willing to give them a fair chance. Seems like everyone on these types of forums just wants to score a script for T at 250 inject a week, which is not really TRT dosage.

  10. Quote Originally Posted by Lockout888 View Post
    How do I address thyroid or adrenal issues?

    Test was taken @ 7am without taking Axiron yet. I normally apply it around 7:30am.
    I think he was referring to when then lab test were taken in relation to how far into the medication daily doses you were. Like were the test for your levels taken one or two weeks after they started you?

    If test levels were lower Im surprised they didn't administer a thyroid panel to check your blood levels for all adrenal hormone activity.

    Did they prescribe to you an anti-estrogen...typically they recommend something mild to start like 10mg of tamoxifen.
    National Level NPC Competitor
    Sponsored Athlete for Muscle Gauge Nutrition
    www.facebook.com/VanessaValdez.National.Competi tor

  11. That is the only reason I am considering an anti-aging clinic......to get GH The test I will just get from my doctor, (fully) legal. If I want DHT gel or caps? I can also get that pretty easy. Good legit GH is hard to find/get prescribed. I live in South Florida so there are anti-aging clinics all around the place....everybody is "old" down here.

  12. Quote Originally Posted by AnabolicHolic View Post
    That is the only reason I am considering an anti-aging clinic......to get GH The test I will just get from my doctor, (fully) legal. If I want DHT gel or caps? I can also get that pretty easy. Good legit GH is hard to find/get prescribed. I live in South Florida so there are anti-aging clinics all around the place....everybody is "old" down here.
    right, but you'll pay $200+ per 15iu....

  13. Quote Originally Posted by AnabolicHolic
    That is the only reason I am considering an anti-aging clinic......to get GH The test I will just get from my doctor, (fully) legal. If I want DHT gel or caps? I can also get that pretty easy. Good legit GH is hard to find/get prescribed. I live in South Florida so there are anti-aging clinics all around the place....everybody is "old" down here.
    If they give you GH w/o a glucose tolerance test, it's a complete money grab.

  14. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL
    right, but you'll pay $200+ per 15iu....
    I pay ahem, $9 through my insurance...

  15. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    its how I started on TRT too. That was before any other anabolics, I at 39 had roughly average of around 270 total test. I tried getting appointments through insurance with endocrinologists but found out that I had a 4-6 month wait, and I wanted to do something first. First antiaging clinic prescribed 300mg /wk with .5mg arimidex EOD and 500iu HCG 2x a week, and would have happily prescribed HGH, winstrol, deca, or just about anything else as well, it was all in their price list. That doesn't make it legitimate medical help.
    The particular company I am referring to is not near as liberal as your example. That is plain crazy that doctors would even prescribe the list you just dished out. Those are all scheduled and some entirely banned from the states for any use.

    The amount of people I know on 300mg/wk with a prescription could be counted on one hand.

  16. Quote Originally Posted by napalm View Post
    I pay ahem, $9 through my insurance...
    That's also crazy, too. Your insurance must really love you.

  17. Quote Originally Posted by fueledpassion

    That's also crazy, too. Your insurance must really love you.
    Yeah, the pens are a grand retail.

    Yay hypopituitarism...

  18. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    right, but you'll pay $200+ per 15iu....
    this is the reason I have not moved forward with it.

  19. Quote Originally Posted by AnabolicHolic

    this is the reason I have not moved forward with it.
    There's always the napalm method of getting hgh: 2 skull fractures...

  20. Quote Originally Posted by napalm View Post
    There's always the napalm method of getting hgh: 2 skull fractures...
    lol, I fcked myself up enough by accident without trying too....I don't know if causing myself major head trauma to get GH for a couple bucks a month is worth it..... let me think about it

  21. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    anything that high (200+) will have you with high RBC and hematocrit within a few months. Maybe not dangerously high, but over top of normal scale.
    What are some numbers to indicate high RBC and hematocrit levels? And what's the downside of those levels? Thanks

  22. Quote Originally Posted by pcn

    What are some numbers to indicate high RBC and hematocrit levels? And what's the downside of those levels? Thanks
    Different labs have different normal ranges but for a man, hgb upper end of normal is ~18.5, upper end of hct is around 45-48.

    Downside = stroke or heart attack

  23. Hmm. Mines been borderline high. Do you know how to mitigate/treat?

  24. Quote Originally Posted by napalm View Post
    Different labs have different normal ranges but for a man, hgb upper end of normal is ~18.5, upper end of hct is around 45-48.

    Downside = stroke or heart attack
    when I was at 150mg / wk or higher mine came out around 20.5 and 53 :P

  25. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL
    when I was at 150mg / wk or higher mine came out around 20.5 and 53 :P
    Yeah, pretty close to mine. So far, that's really been my only side effect. My e2's been high, but I never had any symptoms...

  26. Quote Originally Posted by napalm View Post
    Yeah, pretty close to mine. So far, that's really been my only side effect. My e2's been high, but I never had any symptoms...
    once I dropped down to 120, they both came back inside normal, so i'm staying there. Not sure what my e2 is now, probably better to not know, since I don't have any symptoms either.

  27. Quote Originally Posted by AnabolicHolic

    lol, I fcked myself up enough by accident without trying too....I don't know if causing myself major head trauma to get GH for a couple bucks a month is worth it..... let me think about it
    Srs, my dx is hypopituitarism secondary to head trauma.

  28. Quote Originally Posted by pcn
    Hmm. Mines been borderline high. Do you know how to mitigate/treat?
    Well, easy and I just lowered our dose to bring them into semi normal range. I also started taking a full dose aspirin because my pcp, not endo, was freaking out. He said a hct of 57 is 'a walking time bomb.'

    That didn't sit well with mrs napalm...

  29. Yeah, all it takes is being a bit more dehydrated than normal, some significant event raising blood pressure short term and pop there goes a stroke. Work a few long days, abuse red bull to stay energetic and that alone could do it. There may be some dietary things you could do as well.

  30. You guys would be terrified of EQ considering your phobia of RBC counts...

    You want to talk about shortness of breath, lol. EQ trumps Test in the area of blood thickening.
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