No Libido on Axiron

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    No Libido on Axiron


    Hello everyone, this is my first post here. I've read a lot on here and there's so much good information. Anyways I went to my doc to have my testosterone checked because just wasn't feeling young anymore, low libido, poor erections, social anxiety and just plain ole tired.

    I'm 43 year old, male, 6 foot, 192 lbs.

    He checked my Total Test and it was 337. He mailed me the test results it said low normal and does not advise TRT. My next appointment I talked him into (He didn't want to) Androgel 1.62, 2 pumps a day. I could tell no difference what so ever. Went back 3 months later to re-test and Total Testosterone was 464. He said to continue on, but my insurance wasn't paying so he switched me to Axiron (Axiron has a program to get it for $25 for 1 year). I can tell it's doing something, my beard is thicker like it used to be and I've noticed hair line receding a lot more, not as tired, but other than that not really noticed much else. Now here's the real problem, since been on Axiron, libido has crashed, erections impossible, no morning wood just dead.

    I've done a bunch of reading and seen he needs to test my Free Testosterone and E2, so I'm going to call him and see if he will test these for me.

    First test he did, before TRT.
    Total Testosterone 337 (241-827)
    Prolactin 10.9 (2.1-17.7)
    LH 3.3 (1.5-9.3)
    TSH 1.07 (.55-4.78)
    Glucose 102
    Cholesterol 211 (143-200)
    HDL 38 (40-60)
    Triglyceride 279 (12-150)
    LDL-C 117 (<100)

    Test 3 months later on Adrogel
    Total Testosterone 464 (241-827)
    PSA 1.0 (0.0-4.0)
    HGB 16.0 (13.5-17.8)


    Thanks for any suggestions

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    sounds like estrogen or prolactin too high.. i would retest both of those along with an updated total & free T.
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    So went back to have more blood work done. Was going to get Total & Free Testosterone and E2 checked. Got results back, but for some reason they didn't check my E2 and that's what I really wanted checked. Anyways here's what results I got.

    Total Testosterone 367
    Free Testosterone 22.8

    Looks like total is low, but Free is really good?? All they told me was, everything is normal....Something ain't normal.....My Dr. is internal medicine Doc. Think I need to find a different Doc.
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    Quote Originally Posted by iMacMan89 View Post
    So went back to have more blood work done. Was going to get Total & Free Testosterone and E2 checked. Got results back, but for some reason they didn't check my E2 and that's what I really wanted checked. Anyways here's what results I got.

    Total Testosterone 367
    Free Testosterone 22.8

    Looks like total is low, but Free is really good?? All they told me was, everything is normal....Something ain't normal.....My Dr. is internal medicine Doc. Think I need to find a different Doc.
    Free Testosterone 22.8 pg/ml (3.8 - 34.2)
    Total Testosterone 367 ng/dl (241 - 827)
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    Went back to doc again and hit him up on the Testosterone converting to Estrogen and that I wanted to get my E2 checked. He says he doesn't believe Testosterone converts to Estrogen and he doesn't think that high Estrogen is why I have no sex drive. He did increase my Axiron from once a day to twice a day and wants me to come back in 2 weeks for Total Testosterone blood test to see if it increases. He says he doesn't need Free Testosterone test, just Total. If my levels don't increase he suggests I try injections and if that doesn't work, he says Testosterone just doesn't work for me???

    Anyone have any thoughts on this please.
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    Quote Originally Posted by iMacMan89 View Post
    Went back to doc again and hit him up on the Testosterone converting to Estrogen and that I wanted to get my E2 checked. He says he doesn't believe Testosterone converts to Estrogen and he doesn't think that high Estrogen is why I have no sex drive. He did increase my Axiron from once a day to twice a day and wants me to come back in 2 weeks for Total Testosterone blood test to see if it increases. He says he doesn't need Free Testosterone test, just Total. If my levels don't increase he suggests I try injections and if that doesn't work, he says Testosterone just doesn't work for me???

    Anyone have any thoughts on this please.
    Lol yeah that's it testosterone doesn't work for you. What the $***!!!! I can't believe those words ever came out of his mouth!!!

    Elevated prolactin levels will kill libido as well as increased estrogen levels. Request your estrogen level be checked. Remind him that you ate the patient and you need his help!

    This guy has some problems. Estrogen comes from testosterone!!! Testosterone is produced and converts to estrogen. That's why AI's work to increase Test we make our bodies think we have low estrogen and the body produces more testosterone in order to make more estrogen.

    Symptoms of High Estrogen
    Loss of body hair
    Decrease in muscle mass
    Increase in fat
    Prostate enlargement
    Heart problems
    Carotid artery disease
    Stroke
    Low sex drive (libido)
    Difficulty losing weight
    Fatigue
    Erectile dysfunction

    Good luck man! I'd call an endo's office to get some additional support for it TRT and leave the sore throats to your primary.
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    Yup get your e2 checked! E2 killed my sex drive many times while experimenting with my trt dosages. Just remember less is best in most cases.
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    Thanks for the info guys. On 5 pumps a day of Axiron and total test up to 575 now. He wants to hold me there until my next appointment in 6 months, then re-test. I'm thinking I need to forget the gels and just go for the shots. My insurance isn't going to pay for them, so when the $25.00 special is over, I won't be able to get it anyways. I would also like to give them to myself instead of driving an hour away, once a week or however often. Are the docs pretty open to letting patients give their own shots?

    I would at least like to be around 800 and of course keep my E2 and prolactin in check. Would you suggest Endo or one of the anti-aging clinics?
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    Quote Originally Posted by iMacMan89 View Post
    Thanks for the info guys. On 5 pumps a day of Axiron and total test up to 575 now. He wants to hold me there until my next appointment in 6 months, then re-test. I'm thinking I need to forget the gels and just go for the shots. My insurance isn't going to pay for them, so when the $25.00 special is over, I won't be able to get it anyways. I would also like to give them to myself instead of driving an hour away, once a week or however often. Are the docs pretty open to letting patients give their own shots?

    I would at least like to be around 800 and of course keep my E2 and prolactin in check. Would you suggest Endo or one of the anti-aging clinics?
    Shots should definitely get you in the upper range. My doc doesn't care how much I inject, or what frequency. Just as long as I stay below around 1200ng/dL, and above 500ng/dL. For most guys, a level between 500ng/dL - 800ng/dL makes them feel the best.
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    I am on Axiron gel and I love it. My primary care doc will only prescribe the testosterone gel and nothing else (no AI or HCG). So, I also use a product called Forma Stanzol. It helps lower my estrogen & prolactin while increasing libido. I only have to use a very low dose of it and it lasts awhile.

    Anyway, good luck on your journey and keep us posted.
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    Quote Originally Posted by iMacMan89 View Post
    Thanks for the info guys. On 5 pumps a day of Axiron and total test up to 575 now. He wants to hold me there until my next appointment in 6 months, then re-test. I'm thinking I need to forget the gels and just go for the shots. My insurance isn't going to pay for them, so when the $25.00 special is over, I won't be able to get it anyways. I would also like to give them to myself instead of driving an hour away, once a week or however often. Are the docs pretty open to letting patients give their own shots?

    I would at least like to be around 800 and of course keep my E2 and prolactin in check. Would you suggest Endo or one of the anti-aging clinics?
    Is the 575 after application? I had the problem of low libido on axiron, have recently switch to 100mg. Inject + low dose of daily testim so far libido is very good. Maybe will drop the testim at some point.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rfarns01 View Post

    Is the 575 after application? I had the problem of low libido on axiron, have recently switch to 100mg. Inject + low dose of daily testim so far libido is very good. Maybe will drop the testim at some point.
    A small amount of Testim or Androgel once in a while with my test-e injections keeps my libido up too.
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    Please keep us updated. I'm very curious to hear from another axiron user. I'm on my second month of axiron(2pumps) paired with HCG and arimidex. I too experienced a large loss in libido/morning wood/function after the initial 2 week phase. I'm happy to report all other low T symptoms are gone but my one saving grace a great libido has been hit hard. My first thought was arimidex driving estrogen low so I removed it approximately 2 weeks ago. Have my 2nd blood test coming up and I'm throwing in all the possible culprits. Hopefully that will shed some light on where to move next.
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    Hit privatemedicallabs.com order the female hormone test (almost everything you need and can the add what you want) produce the results to your horrible doc and fire him. File a formal complaint with your state and ask local pharmacies what docs in your area are prescribing test injections. Save yourself a ton time and disappointment by dumping the cream/gel.
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    Yeah, privatemedicallabs.com is a good one to use. By ordering the female hormone panel you will get what you need and it's only about $55 bucks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ELROCK View Post
    Yeah, privatemedicallabs.com is a good one to use. By ordering the female hormone panel you will get what you need and it's only about $55 bucks.
    Don't forget to enter the privatemdlabs.com promo code for $10 off!
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    Quote Originally Posted by rfarns01 View Post
    Is the 575 after application? I had the problem of low libido on axiron, have recently switch to 100mg. Inject + low dose of daily testim so far libido is very good. Maybe will drop the testim at some point.
    It was a morning blood test and I didn't apply the Axiron before the test. I really wasn't sure if I supposed to apply it before the test or not. I did apply it the night before.
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    I will definitely hit up privatemdlabs.com and do that test. Pretty cheap price also, thanks for that info.
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    Guys,

    Really don't want to sound like a downer but some folks respond very poorly to creams and gels. I've tried both religiously and never tested over 300
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    Quote Originally Posted by TRTDetroit View Post
    Guys,

    Really don't want to sound like a downer but some folks respond very poorly to creams and gels. I've tried both religiously and never tested over 300
    I've heard that too. I responded incredibly to gels, and tested over 1000 a couple times (made sure I never applied anywhere close to where they draw blood). I chose injections just because I was tired of worrying about transferring it to my gf. Sex drive and sense of well being was always WAAAAY better on gels for me. Even made my voice deep as f---.
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    I hear you Lex and thanks for the reply. I was worried about my wife getting exposed but most of all my kids. I didnt like the idea of injections but now i can get it done quicker than brushing and flossing my teeth. Labs last week were 760 and I feel pretty darn good.
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    I ordered the hormone panel for females from PrivateMDLabs and got results back today. Estradiol looks fine at 17.8, I could have sworn it would have been high with the erection problems.
    The LH & FSH are dead, I guess because I'm on the Axiron.

    Testosterone 791 348-1197 ng/dl
    Estradiol 17.8 7.6-42.6 pg/ml
    LH <.2 1.7/8.6 miu/ml
    FSH 0.5 1.5-12.4 miu/ml

    Also got some bad results (Marked High) that worries me.

    RBC 6.26 (4.14 - 5.80)
    Hemoglobin 17.9 (12.6 - 17.7)
    Hematocrit 53.6 (37.5 - 51.0)

    Glucose, Serum 100 (65 - 99) (Pre-diabetic?)
    Creatinine, Serum 1.31 (.76 - 1.27) (Kidney Disease?)
    ALT (SGPT) 53 (0 - 44) (Liver Damage?)
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    Quote Originally Posted by iMacMan89 View Post
    I ordered the hormone panel for females from PrivateMDLabs and got results back today. Estradiol looks fine at 17.8, I could have sworn it would have been high with the erection problems.
    The LH & FSH are dead, I guess because I'm on the Axiron.

    Testosterone 791 348-1197 ng/dl
    Estradiol 17.8 7.6-42.6 pg/ml
    LH <.2 1.7/8.6 miu/ml
    FSH 0.5 1.5-12.4 miu/ml

    Also got some bad results (Marked High) that worries me.

    RBC 6.26 (4.14 - 5.80)
    Hemoglobin 17.9 (12.6 - 17.7)
    Hematocrit 53.6 (37.5 - 51.0)

    Glucose, Serum 100 (65 - 99) (Pre-diabetic?)
    Creatinine, Serum 1.31 (.76 - 1.27) (Kidney Disease?)
    ALT (SGPT) 53 (0 - 44) (Liver Damage?)
    I got the same 100 glucose and slightly elevated hematocrit....its normal to have high RBC counts and the like on trt ....and 100 is just above range so that is not such a concern....most that i know who are older are in the 90's. The liver values seem to elevate with my increasing test levels as well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnabolicHolic View Post
    I got the same 100 glucose and slightly elevated hematocrit....its normal to have high RBC counts and the like on trt ....and 100 is just above range so that is not such a concern....most that i know who are older are in the 90's. The liver values seem to elevate with my increasing test levels as well.
    That eases my mind a little. ThanksI guess I'll be donating some blood soon and I'll try the eating a grapefruit a day.
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    Can my Prolactin or Progesterone be high even though my Estradiol is good?

    I do think my libido is up some, but still have hard time keeping erection and I'm pretty sure it's not a blood flow problem. Something else is causing it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by iMacMan89 View Post
    Can my Prolactin or Progesterone be high even though my Estradiol is good?

    I do think my libido is up some, but still have hard time keeping erection and I'm pretty sure it's not a blood flow problem. Something else is causing it.
    Yep its possible....i had high estradiol and high progesterone with normal prolactin ....so you never know what's out of whack until you request the female hormones in total.
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    Is 17.8 pg/ml low for Estradiol? My lab test shows range 7.6 - 42.6 pg/ml. I've read here before 20 was optimum, but I also read that anything under 18.2 is to low.

    I have been using Forma Stanzol, about 6 pumps, twice a day.
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    Quote Originally Posted by iMacMan89 View Post
    Is 17.8 pg/ml low for Estradiol? My lab test shows range 7.6 - 42.6 pg/ml. I've read here before 20 was optimum, but I also read that anything under 18.2 is to low.

    I have been using Forma Stanzol, about 6 pumps, twice a day.
    That's pretty low for that test, if you had used the sensitive test which is actually the one recommended for men you would probably be down in single digits.
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    Quote Originally Posted by iMacMan89 View Post
    I ordered the hormone panel for females from PrivateMDLabs and got results back today. Estradiol looks fine at 17.8, I could have sworn it would have been high with the erection problems.
    The LH & FSH are dead, I guess because I'm on the Axiron.

    Testosterone 791 348-1197 ng/dl
    Estradiol 17.8 7.6-42.6 pg/ml
    LH <.2 1.7/8.6 miu/ml
    FSH 0.5 1.5-12.4 miu/ml

    Also got some bad results (Marked High) that worries me.

    RBC 6.26 (4.14 - 5.80)
    Hemoglobin 17.9 (12.6 - 17.7)
    Hematocrit 53.6 (37.5 - 51.0)

    Glucose, Serum 100 (65 - 99) (Pre-diabetic?)
    Creatinine, Serum 1.31 (.76 - 1.27) (Kidney Disease?)
    ALT (SGPT) 53 (0 - 44) (Liver Damage?)
    You need to donate blood to get that hematocrit down. Also next blood work make sure to hydrate, that will improve many of these levels. If you are a lifter with a fair amount of muscle it is common to have slightly elevated creatinine levels.
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    Just a quick update. Went back to doc and told him I wanted to switch to injections instead of the Axiron. Put Axiron on for the last time Monday morning and took first injection that afternoon. Within 24 hrs things started looking better, 5 days later increased libido and no erection problem, I have no idea why the shot made so much difference, it's like the Axiron was having an opposite effect on me. I hope this continues to work.
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    Maybe a week after my last post, my libido went away again and still have some erection problems. Went and had more blood test from private md labs and here is some results. Maybe somebody can give me some insight on what might be causing problems?

    Testosterone, Serum - 954 - 348-1197 ng/dL BN
    Testosterone,Free - 39.40 - HIGH - 5.00-21.00 ng/dL BN
    Insulin-Like Growth Factor I - 278 - HIGH - 75-216 ng/mL BN
    Estradiol, Sensitive - 45 - 3-70 pg/mL BN

    Taking 200mg of Testosterone Cyp per week injection.
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    Quote Originally Posted by iMacMan89 View Post
    Maybe a week after my last post, my libido went away again and still have some erection problems. Went and had more blood test from private md labs and here is some results. Maybe somebody can give me some insight on what might be causing problems?

    Testosterone, Serum - 954 - 348-1197 ng/dL BN
    Testosterone,Free - 39.40 - HIGH - 5.00-21.00 ng/dL BN
    Insulin-Like Growth Factor I - 278 - HIGH - 75-216 ng/mL BN
    Estradiol, Sensitive - 45 - 3-70 pg/mL BN

    Taking 200mg of Testosterone Cyp per week injection.
    Lower your injection to 100mg/ week (2 50mg injections).
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    Quote Originally Posted by iMacMan89 View Post
    Estradiol, Sensitive - 45 - 3-70 pg/mL
    Your E2 is way, way, way high. On the Labcorp E2 test with the 7-42 range, your E2 LEVEL will probably be close to 100. Labcorp's Estradiol sensitive test is notoriously inaccurate, giving false very very low numbers.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.TT View Post
    Your E2 is way, way, way high. On the Labcorp E2 test with the 7-42 range, your E2 LEVEL will probably be close to 100. Labcorp's Estradiol sensitive test is notoriously inaccurate, giving false very very low numbers.

    Yeah I think I need Arimidex, but my doc doesn't believe estrogen being to high. He wouldn't even order a E2 test, that's why I went to Labcorp and got it tested. I guess I need a endo, but I hate to start from the beginning again. Always heard they will pull you off the Testosterone first thing and start over. There's a few places that sell it online, but I don't if it's on the up and up.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lexmuscle View Post
    Lower your injection to 100mg/ week (2 50mg injections).
    You think I'm just taking to much and it has my E2 to high?
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    Quote Originally Posted by iMacMan89 View Post

    You think I'm just taking to much and it has my E2 to high?
    Yup definitely. Try out 100mg/week (two 50mg injects), and test again after a month or two. You'll feel much better.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lexmuscle View Post
    Yup definitely. Try out 100mg/week (two 50mg injects), and test again after a month or two. You'll feel much better.
    I'll give that a try and see if it helps. Do you think I should be using an anti estrogen also? Thought about maybe ordering some Liquidex.
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    Quote Originally Posted by iMacMan89 View Post

    I'll give that a try and see if it helps. Do you think I should be using an anti estrogen also? Thought about maybe ordering some Liquidex.
    I wouldn't use an AI until you see how the 50mg twice a week works. Give it month or two to even out. No one should need an AI at that dose, unless there are other underlying issues. AI's can really f--- things up unless absolutely needed
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.TT View Post
    Your E2 is way, way, way high. On the Labcorp E2 test with the 7-42 range, your E2 LEVEL will probably be close to 100. Labcorp's Estradiol sensitive test is notoriously inaccurate, giving false very very low numbers.
    Just to clarify, you are saying that if someone gets a Labcorp Estradiol, Sensitive test, and they get a middle-of-the-range result, it actually means that they have estrogen that is way too high? Can you elaborate on this further for me? Sorry if this is fairly common knowledge, but it's quite important to me, as I am suspicious I might have high estrogen and want to get it tested correctly.
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    I suspected that the Labcorp Estradiol Sensitive (3-70 range) test was under reporting my E2.
    So, on 04/20/12, I paid for Labcorp's Estradiol Sensitive (3-70 range) and the cheaper Estradiol (7.6-42.6 range) blood tests.

    Estradiol Sensitive (3-70 range) reported as 19 pg/ml
    Estradiol (7.6-42.6 range) reported as 54.8 pg/ml

    Yes, I really did have HIGH E2 and I thought I did.
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