24 year old HRT

[bruschi11]

Hi guys,

First post on the site. Going for my first appointment with a biomedical hormone therapy doctor next week. I'm going to a doc in the Boston area. DM me if you know anyone around here who works well in this subject. Anyways, I used several prohormones spanned out between ages 17 and 19- superdrol (twice), epistaine, furuzadrol. So four months overall while using just nolvedex xt as pct. I was an idiot, I know. Biggest mistakes of my life.

I've gone from 175 lbs at 8-10% bf to 180 at about 16-18% body fat as I've worked harder and harder to stay in shape while keeping a better diet with age as well. Most of the muscle turned into fat over these 5 years and its been very, very frusturating. The last year or so has been brutal as anxiety, loss in confidence, have taken a serious toll on me while the muscle loss has been getting worse and worse. I've seen a few doctors (internist, psychologist, a dickhead endo) where they've looked at me like an idiot I'm a when I mentioned this stuff. (lol my internist said my estradiol level of 55 was perfectly fine after he did not want to do these bloods for me), but finally it looks like I found the right guy.

Anyways going into this meeting next week with the biomed doctor, I'd just like some advice on what you guys think about my hormonal profile and what you think he should be prescribing me. I will list the numbers below. Also, at first glance it looks ok (test), but LH and IGF are very concerning. Also DHEA is low, my cholesterol is not looking well while insulin is very low. Remember, I'm only 24 and should be on the high end for LH, IGF, and DHEA at this age. (I must also add that I've been taking aromasin, an ai, for the last month and a half since I found out my estradiol was 55. At the time test was 650 and estradiol was 55.)

T3, FREE 3.1 2.3-4.2 pg/mL QCA
TESTOSTERONE, FREE,BIO AMD
AND TOTAL, LC/MS/MS
TESTOSTERONE, TOTAL,
LC/MS/MS 724 250-1100 ng/dL

TotalTestosteroneLCMSMS
TESTOSTERONE, FREE 148.6 46.0-224.0 pg/mL
TESTOSTERONE,BIOAVAILABLE 312.1 110.0-575.0 ng/dL
SEX HORMONE BINDING
GLOBULIN 21 10-50 nmol/L
ALBUMIN,SERUM 4.6 3.6-5.1 g/dL
ESTRADIOL, ULTRASENSITIVE EZ
LC/MS/MS 28 < OR = 29 pg/mL
IGF I, LC/MS 195 83-456 ng/mL EZ
TSH 2.89 0.40-4.50 mIU/L QCA
T4, FREE 1.2 0.8-1.8 ng/dL QCA
VITAMIN D, 25 OH, TOTAL 47 30-100 ng/mL
DHEA SULFATE 238 110-510 mcg/dL QWA
INSULIN <2 <17 uIU/mL QWA
DIHYDROTESTOSTERONE, EZ
LC/MS/MS 26 16-79 ng/dL

LH 3.0 1.5-9.3 mIU/mL QCA
PROLACTIN 4.6 2.0-18.0 ng/mL Qca
PSA, TOTAL 0.5 < OR = 4.0 ng/mL QCA

IGF BINDING PROTEIN 3 AMD
(IGFBP 3) 4.6 3.4-7.8 mg/L

LIPID PANEL
CHOLESTEROL, TOTAL 229 H 125-200 mg/dL QCA

HDL CHOLESTEROL 63 > OR = 40 mg/dL QCA
TRIGLYCERIDES 54 <150 mg/dL QCA

LDL-CHOLESTEROL 155 H <130 mg/dl


What do you guys think? From my not-so-deep knowledge, I'm thinking HCG along with an AI should do the trick for LH, test, and cholesterol problems while I'm perplexed about the IGF1. Do you guys think this doc would put me on a GHRP or a GHRH? This doctor is supposed to get your hormones to "optimal levels."

Any advice would be great. Thank you!

 

[bruschi11]

Again any help would be great. I'd just like to go into this initial consult with the doctor with some advice on my hands.

 

[The Matrix]

Again any help would be great. I'd just like to go into this initial consult with the doctor with some advice on my hands.

Prohormones may have been just part of the equation, but i am sure there is more to the story. Probably sleep like crap, stayed up to 2-3 am on the weekends. Diet wasn't probably the best. Too many other factors need to be evaluated..

 

[bruschi11]

Diet has been good and so has sleep. In college that may not be true, but the past year and a half, since then, my problems have heightened greatly. The low IGF and LH lead me to believe I may be growth hormone deficient. The pituitary clearly is not producing the way it should for someone my age which can lead to the lacking adrenals (DHEA) and high cholesterol. Trust me Matrix, I've been taking good care of myself. Do you have any other insights?

 

[The Matrix]

Check cortisol saliva test would be a good recommendation. If you have insurance and can use lab corp, they can give you a 4 point cortisol while using your insurance. Remember stress is cumulative and it just the last straw to break the camels back. I would also suggest checking TPO and TGAB for hashimotos, along with ferritin levels.

 

[bruschi11]

I had saliva done with my testing as well. The cortisol was in the low range but right along the circadian curve. It may have been because I did the spit slightly later than the average day for me. I wake up at 730 everyday. This was a Saturday and I didn't start the spitting until 10:20 am (woke up at 9-9:30) followed by 2p, 6p, 1030p. Cortisol levels were 4 ng/ml, 1.5, 1, .3 respectively. Optimal levels were 6, 2.0, 1.1, .07

I appreciate your help. I think I'm seeing the right doctor who is doing the right testing. But knowing my results 2 weeks before the appointment is really making me go crazy. I got 6 more days man, 6 more.

 

[bruschi11]

Would you say there's a chance of hypopituitarism? I played football from grade 6 through high school. Took plenty of hits to the head. Collisions in baseball and basketball as well.

I don't know. I'm sure the doc will do some sort of pituitary testing.

 

[The Matrix]

Would you say there's a chance of hypopituitarism? I played football from grade 6 through high school. Took plenty of hits to the head. Collisions in baseball and basketball as well.

I don't know. I'm sure the doc will do some sort of pituitary testing.

Low cortiosl means there is no reserve to deal with daily stresses. I like to see it in the upper range of normal. Even higher if the body is in a state of inflammation..

 

[bruschi11]

I saw the doctor today. He put me on a paleo diet, prescribed me arimidex and clomid. I've been taking aromasin so I'll just be switching that up while the clomid should really help test and LH. He got me at 180 lbs @ 18% bf. Seeing me in 8 weeks, wants me at 170 lbs 14% bf.

He did not seem too concerned with the IGF1 of 195. I told him that it correlates to that of a 55 year old man and he said that although it may be out of your range for your age, insurance is not going to cover $1,000 growth hormone shots or ghrp shots for someone with IGF1 of 195.

Is that true? Are there other ways around that or cheaper prices? I know purity solutions sells ghrp/ghrh for pretty cheap. Also, after being on clomid, I should have Test-estradiol at around 1000-25. Should I still be worried about growth hormone at that point?

 

[The Matrix]

Who ever is telling you need testosterone levels of 1000 has no understanding of hormones.
gh will raise when other issues such as sleep improve and adrenaline function

 

[bruschi11]

I'm seeing an endo tomorrow about this now. Again sleep has always been good, so thats really out of question for GH.
I've been on clomid and aromasin for a couple weeks, haven't done much- lost a few pounds but still feeling muscle atrophy.

My concern is the IGF1, insulin levels, and cholesterol (high possibly cause by GH deficiency). Growth hormone deficiency has great correlation to the low IGF1 levels. I read if you are under 30 with IGF below 250, you probably have a pituitary problem. Also, below 200, many doctors show as low GH no matter the age level. I'm going to ask the Endo for MRI on pituitary and Glucagen Stimulation test for GH deficiency.

Would you recommend these steps as well? Thanks again Matrix!

 

[The Matrix]

I'm seeing an endo tomorrow about this now. Again sleep has always been good, so thats really out of question for GH.
I've been on clomid and aromasin for a couple weeks, haven't done much- lost a few pounds but still feeling muscle atrophy.

My concern is the IGF1, insulin levels, and cholesterol (high possibly cause by GH deficiency). Growth hormone deficiency has great correlation to the low IGF1 levels. I read if you are under 30 with IGF below 250, you probably have a pituitary problem. Also, below 200, many doctors show as low GH no matter the age level. I'm going to ask the Endo for MRI on pituitary and Glucagen Stimulation test for GH deficiency.

Would you recommend these steps as well? Thanks again Matrix!

Again you are reading too much crap on line. I have guys whos igf-1 are <200 and have optimal out put of GH levels when measured over a 24 hour peroid via urine. You may sleep fine but you may not be getting quality of sleep in order to properly stimulate GH levels. Correcting quality of sleep is the key with proper manipulation of neurotransmitters. By modulation of neurotransmitter adrenals, testosterone and gh levels can be corrected in younger guys. If you have optimal T levels and e2 levels still lossing weight its not probably HRT, but rather thyroid or adrenal related. The next questions is WHY. If you have good thyroid, and adrenals then next place is to look at is the GI tract. This is where 90% of the cases I deal with have issues which can correct a whole slew of symptoms a person may have. By addressing the root case you resolve the issue so it does not come back to smack you in the ass later, like a lot of younger guys on TRT are experiencing.

 

[bruschi11]

Do my lab results indicate an adrenal or thyroid problem? I know DHEA is low for my age and cortisol ended up on the low side. TSH looked fine to me right?

As for GI Tract, what sort of testing would you suggest? My thing against this is that its not like I can't lose weight or food doesn't go through me, its the constant muscle atrophy.

 

[The Matrix]

Do my lab results indicate an adrenal or thyroid problem? I know DHEA is low for my age and cortisol ended up on the low side. TSH looked fine to me right? As for GI Tract, what sort of testing would you suggest? My thing against this is that its not like I can't lose weight or food doesn't go through me, its the constant muscle atrophy.

40% of the people I deal with have no Gi related symptoms but have GI tracts which are in such horrible shape one would not believe it. Just because you do not have Gi symptoms does not mean there is not an issuesTSH >1.5-2.0 may indicate potential adrenal or thyroid related imbalance..high LDL with other normal lipids tells me you may have issues with proper liver detoxfication or fatty liver.

 

[bruschi11]

Saw endo today. Got nothing out of him other than a few arguments with him telling me I'm wrong. Clomid bad, anastrazole bad blada blada.

Whatever. I'm sticking to my biomed doctor while taking all the advice I can get from you. I truly appreciate everything so far, you're really helping me out with my understanding of the subject here.

The liver/GI Tract is something I'm really set on to investigate. I think my adrenals and thyroid aren't that bad. What kind of testing would you recommend for liver/GI. I do have other results that I will add below for my bloods back in December...

COMPREHENSIVE METABOLIC QCA
PANEL
GLUCOSE 83 65-99 mg/dL
Fasting reference interval
UREA NITROGEN (BUN) 17 7-25 mg/dL
CREATININE 1.11 0.60-1.35 mg/dL
eGFR NON-AFR. AMERICAN 92 > OR = 60 mL/min/1.73m2
eGFR AFRICAN AMERICAN 107 > OR = 60 mL/min/1.73m2
BUN/CREATININE RATIO NOT APPLICABLE 6-22 (calc)
SODIUM 140 135-146 mmol/L
POTASSIUM 3.9 3.5-5.3 mmol/L
CHLORIDE 101 98-110 mmol/L
CARBON DIOXIDE 26 21-33 mmol/L
CALCIUM 9.5 8.6-10.3 mg/dL
PROTEIN, TOTAL 7.8 6.1-8.1 g/dL
ALBUMIN 4.7 3.6-5.1 g/dL
GLOBULIN 3.1 1.9-3.7 g/dL (calc)
ALBUMIN/GLOBULIN RATIO 1.5 1.0-2.5 (calc)


BILIRUBIN, TOTAL 0.8 0.2-1.2 mg/dL
ALKALINE PHOSPHATASE 49 40-115 U/L
AST 38 10-40 U/L
ALT 25 9-60 U/L
HEMOGLOBIN A1c 5.1 <5.7 % of total Hgb QCA

CBC (INCLUDES DIFF/PLT) QCA
WHITE BLOOD CELL COUNT 3.9 3.8-10.8 Thousand/uL
RED BLOOD CELL COUNT 5.14 4.20-5.80 Million/uL
HEMOGLOBIN 16.5 13.2-17.1 g/dL
HEMATOCRIT 47.9 38.5-50.0 %
MCV 93.1 80.0-100.0 fL
MCH 32.0 27.0-33.0 pg
MCHC 34.4 32.0-36.0 g/dL
RDW 13.4 11.0-15.0 %
PLATELET COUNT 177 140-400 Thousand/uL
MPV 9.9 7.5-11.5 fL
ABSOLUTE NEUTROPHILS 1552 1500-7800 cells/uL
ABSOLUTE LYMPHOCYTES 1950 850-3900 cells/uL
ABSOLUTE MONOCYTES 339 200-950 cells/uL
ABSOLUTE EOSINOPHILS 47 15-500 cells/uL
ABSOLUTE BASOPHILS 12 0-200 cells/uL
NEUTROPHILS 39.8 %
LYMPHOCYTES 50.0 %
MONOCYTES 8.7 %
EOSINOPHILS 1.2 %
BASOPHILS 0.3 %

 

[bruschi11]

Also would like some clarity. Although you said you had plenty of guys with IGF1 below 200, the goal is to get them back in the 300 range whether its a GH deficiency or not...right?

That is why we are looking at other alternatives to possible GH deficiency that can be causing this IGF1 problem... right?

And you're saying its probably not a GH problem based on my numbers and what you generally see in terms of lower IGF1 patients.

 

[The Matrix]

Correct lifestyle, sleep.hygiene, adrenals thyroid, good exercise proper stress management nutritional deficiency igf will.probably.rise
see.markers.for low zinc vitamin d and others imbalances. Do not chase number and careful of bro science. Im.not.a Dr but do.have almost a decade working in a clinical setting with md

 

[bruschi11]

I've been taking D3 and zinc daily for a couple months. I just found some information stating that Adderall use lowers growth hormone. I used it for 5 or so days a week for about 2 years and then another year or so of using it weekly to study. That along with the prohormones senior year of HS and Freshman year of college without proper pct then partying hard in college for three years- 3 nights a week of drinking 6+ a night and add in a 4th night for a semester or two. Add that along with a lot of caffeine and its no wonder that IGF1 is low. I've been taking good care of myself in regards to sleep, diet, and exercise for the past year and a half now since I graduated and I just feel like there's no way up knowing what I know right now that IGF1<200. I know I need to find a cause whether its adrenal/thyroid or GH. What else can I ask my biomed doctor to do regarding testing? If I can't find a cause and if my next blood test, 2 weeks away, don't show improvements, I really am considering a very low dose of semorelin. Is that a terrible idea?

 

[bruschi11]

?????? above is just a quote of mine?

 

[bruschi11]

Just asking for one more piece of advice Matrix if you can help...

I got bloods back last week while on the clomid/aromasin and paleo diet. Btw I was on Aromasin during my first blood work as well. Test went from 710 to 1426, estradiol 29 to 45 while IGF1 sunk down from 195 to 64. Yes, 64, not 164. 64.... Because of this low number, my doc prescribed a pituitary MRI for tomorrow and a stimulation test in two weeks.

I decided to start a ghrp/ghrh combo upon wake up and before bed. Ipamorelin and Mod GRF 1-29 twice daily, 100 mcg each per shot. I began late last week. The doc will be taking bloods just for IGF1 early next week to see how I've reacted to this blend as well.

How would you think I'd react to this blend and how quickly can it cause IGF1 to rise? Would you say its safe to safe I'm GH deficient with an IGF1 of 64? Or do you think there is just a serious problem with GH being converted to IGF1 in my system?

Any thoughts would be great.

 

[The Matrix]

Before going to any GH boosters, i would suggest to look at what is causing poor sleep hygiene. Is it neurotransmitters, cortisol, food intolerance, poor lifestyles, ect. There is always a cause and effect relationship. There also may be a conversion issue with gh in the liver. This is why I like rhein lab 24 hour GH test.

Just asking for one more piece of advice Matrix if you can help...

I got bloods back last week while on the clomid/aromasin and paleo diet. Btw I was on Aromasin during my first blood work as well. Test went from 710 to 1426, estradiol 29 to 45 while IGF1 sunk down from 195 to 64. Yes, 64, not 164. 64.... Because of this low number, my doc prescribed a pituitary MRI for tomorrow and a stimulation test in two weeks.

I decided to start a ghrp/ghrh combo upon wake up and before bed. Ipamorelin and Mod GRF 1-29 twice daily, 100 mcg each per shot. I began late last week. The doc will be taking bloods just for IGF1 early next week to see how I've reacted to this blend as well.

How would you think I'd react to this blend and how quickly can it cause IGF1 to rise? Would you say its safe to safe I'm GH deficient with an IGF1 of 64? Or do you think there is just a serious problem with GH being converted to IGF1 in my system?

Any thoughts would be great.

 

[bruschi11]

Before going to any GH boosters, i would suggest to look at what is causing poor sleep hygiene. Is it neurotransmitters, cortisol, food intolerance, poor lifestyles, ect. There is always a cause and effect relationship. There also may be a conversion issue with gh in the liver. This is why I like rhein lab 24 hour GH test.

Yup, I'm getting a 3 hour stimulation test, I believe Glucagen in two weeks. In the meantime, I'm feeling good on the peptides. Started GHRP-2/Mod-GRF in the morning this week along with the IPA/Mod-GRF at night. GHRP-2 is making me crazy hungry so I guess that means its working. I'm also feeling a lot better in my workouts with fuller muscles and more vascularity while there's a slight decrease in anxiety. Crossing my fingers its not a placebo affect and this is the solution here.

 

[The Matrix]

Just asking for one more piece of advice Matrix if you can help...

I got bloods back last week while on the clomid/aromasin and paleo diet. Btw I was on Aromasin during my first blood work as well. Test went from 710 to 1426, estradiol 29 to 45 while IGF1 sunk down from 195 to 64. Yes, 64, not 164. 64.... Because of this low number, my doc prescribed a pituitary MRI for tomorrow and a stimulation test in two weeks.

I decided to start a ghrp/ghrh combo upon wake up and before bed. Ipamorelin and Mod GRF 1-29 twice daily, 100 mcg each per shot. I began late last week. The doc will be taking bloods just for IGF1 early next week to see how I've reacted to this blend as well.

How would you think I'd react to this blend and how quickly can it cause IGF1 to rise? Would you say its safe to safe I'm GH deficient with an IGF1 of 64? Or do you think there is just a serious problem with GH being converted to IGF1 in my system?

Any thoughts would be great.

I would get a 24 hour gh urinary done by meridan valley, or another lab which test GH levels. Your best bang for your buck is Rhein lab which your Dr can order for you. Employees get 20% off..cough cough... I would also check your sleep hygiene as this is a huge factor in GH production along with DHEA-s levels.

 

[bruschi11]

DHEA-S went from 210 to 500 after the use of clomid. What do you consider sleep hygiene? Sleep and hygiene? Sleep has been good and I shower twice daily so I'm pretty set there if thats the case . I'm desperately awaiting the results to this MRI. I just don't see how my IGF1 went from 195 to 64 within two months. The only thing I added to the mix was clomid. I just feel there's got to be something wrong whether its the Pituitary or the Liver. Either I'm not making much GH or its not being converted.

 

[The Matrix]

DHEA-S went from 210 to 500 after the use of clomid. What do you consider sleep hygiene? Sleep and hygiene? Sleep has been good and I shower twice daily so I'm pretty set there if thats the case . I'm desperately awaiting the results to this MRI. I just don't see how my IGF1 went from 195 to 64 within two months. The only thing I added to the mix was clomid. I just feel there's got to be something wrong whether its the Pituitary or the Liver. Either I'm not making much GH or its not being converted.

May sleep good but probAbly.not getting restorative sleep. Big.difference.

 

[nomadicone]

Matrix - See you posting in every thread about building the base - GI/thyroid/Adrenal base/sleep/nutrition, etc.
For younger guys, do you see value in taking clomid/AI/test as a "bridge"? Or is it better to fix everything else first?