Whats your protocol and why?

[lboston]

Gents-

Wanting to see how many truly feel it is beneficial to do the 2x week injections compared to the once weekly or once every 6 days or so.

I'm doing the 2x weekly right now and it seems as if my acne had tripled since doing this (could be coincidence).

I'm on 100mg Test Cyp per week.

So, what do you do and why?

 

[napalm]

after a lot of trial and error over the last year, i'm currently at 80 every 4 days. still trying to get it dialed in. e2 has been the problem.

 

[kisaj]

I am on 100 e6d and this seems to work for me, but I do have a little issue with e2 that cropped up recently for some reason. It was never an issue in 2 years and all of a sudden in the last month or so and it is really weird because I have continued to lower my dose. I took a .5 arimidex the day after my shot this week and feel on top of the world. I've had 3x as many hard ons as I have in recent months in the last 3 days.

 

[The Matrix]

30 mgs 2 times per week. Since working on my genetic pathways, GI tract, ramping up my glutathione (after checking my genetic SNPS) Symptoms appeared to be related to estrogen imbalances where actually hidden food allergies had no clue where even there. Boosting up GH levels by improving sleep quality through neurotransmitter modulation has helped with recovery.

 

[lboston]

Good discussion and feedback gents.

Kisaj--that you were an erase fan and didn't use arimidex? That change recently?

Matrix- hypothetically, what do blood levels look like for most on 50mg or 30mg twice per week?

I had labs drawn last week, but haven't seen the results yet.

I did cut out a lot of my more processed foods and am feeling better than I have in a while.

 

[kisaj]

I still like Erase, but I think the holidays caught up with me. From the two weeks before Christmas through NYE, Broncos playoff game, etc.. there have been every weekend events and I like my drinks during these times. No drinking during the week, but it's the only thing I can think of why I would all of a sudden have an issue. In any case, since I had the Arimidex sitting around, I decided to take one to see if it helped.

Holy hell, in about 2 hours I was feeling back to my old self and it has carried on since.

It's interesting once you get fully in tune with your body how you notice every little thing. What things bug me now are something I probably lived with and never noticed for years. It's something that I sometimes wonder if it's better to just not know because it is so much easier. lol.

 

[The Matrix]

Peak 1100 trough 600 e2 22 shbg 22 was 60
more is not.better optimize what you have.

 

[lboston]

Peak 1100 trough 600 e2 22 shbg 22 was 60
more is not.better optimize what you have.

Nice! Hope mine look that great.

I agree with you, whole heartedly. Many times less is more.

 

[lboston]

I still like Erase, but I think the holidays caught up with me. From the two weeks before Christmas through NYE, Broncos playoff game, etc.. there have been every weekend events and I like my drinks during these times. No drinking during the week, but it's the only thing I can think of why I would all of a sudden have an issue. In any case, since I had the Arimidex sitting around, I decided to take one to see if it helped.

Holy hell, in about 2 hours I was feeling back to my old self and it has carried on since.

It's interesting once you get fully in tune with your body how you notice every little thing. What things bug me now are something I probably lived with and never noticed for years. It's something that I sometimes wonder if it's better to just not know because it is so much easier. lol.

The holidays were hard on me as well. I've cleaned things up since jan first and have lost 10 pounds in three weeks.

Feel much better/ healthier than I have in a while. Like you mentioned, I'm starting to pay more attention and feel like I'm learning to "know" myself more.

 

[Vatality]

Thats sound advice, less is more!

 

[The Matrix]

Thats sound advice, less is more!

its scary how many young guys are put on TRT with out looking into what was causing it in the first place. Then finding out 5-6 years later they had something totally unrelated to T as the cause. Definitely a Kodak moment..

 

[abs322]

my hypothetical protocol would look something like:

100-200 mg cyp / wk
8 pumps /day gel
1mg / day anastrozole
500-1000 iu hcg 3x's / wk
12.5 mg clomid 3x's / wk (mwf)
.5 mg / wk cabergoline
100/200 iu / day cj1295/GHRP pre bed

 

[kisaj]

What the hell. Not to be flip, but where are you coming up with this?

Or are you joking?

 

[Stupes]

my hypothetical protocol would look something like:

100-200 mg cyp / wk
8 pumps /day gel
1mg / day anastrozole
500-1000 iu hcg 3x's / wk
12.5 mg clomid 3x's / wk (mwf)
.5 mg / wk cabergoline
100/200 iu / day cj1295/GHRP pre bed

WTF? gel and cyp? Clomid, Adex and Caber? Where are you coming up with this nonsense? Wow!

 

[abs322]

eh? thats a solid protocol.. most docs only prescribe 100mg wk of cyp which is only gonna put you at maybe 500-700 if lucky.. i'd like to be 900-1200+ if on a HRT program. The gel is worth an extra 300-400 ng/dl wk, plus since the gel is a daily application it would help keep the levels high & stable especially as the cyp drops, not to mention if you miss a shot or are late a few days or have to travel, go on vacation etc..its a nice back up. Most docs would prescribe the gel in addition to shots. The adex is needed to combat e2, the caber is needed to combat prolactin, the hcg & clomid is for testical preservation ( i would also add 75mg HMG per month).

you can adjust the gel dose if the cyp dose is higher ie 200mg wk/ cyp + 4 pumps day gel


hcg/hmg/cj1295/ghrp available cheap from china
caber/adex/clomid/gel & cyp covered under most insurance. if not then most of the ancillaries available overseas

 

[LMuscle]

I do 25mg test-e twice a week, and 1 pump of Androgel 1.62% the day before next injection to keep my DHT up. Works well, anything over 25mg injection makes me super irritable and angry. It really does turn me into a different person, almost like Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde bad.

 

[kisaj]

eh? thats a solid protocol.. most docs only prescribe 100mg wk of cyp which is only gonna put you at maybe 500-700 if lucky.. i'd like to be 900-1200+ if on a HRT program. The gel is worth an extra 300-400 ng/dl wk, plus since the gel is a daily application it would help keep the levels high & stable especially as the cyp drops, not to mention if you miss a shot or are late a few days or have to travel, go on vacation etc..its a nice back up. Most docs would prescribe the gel in addition to shots. The adex is needed to combat e2, the caber is needed to combat prolactin, the hcg & clomid is for testical preservation ( i would also add 75mg HMG per month).

you can adjust the gel dose if the cyp dose is higher ie 200mg wk/ cyp + 4 pumps day gel


hcg/hmg/cj1295/ghrp available cheap from china
caber/adex/clomid/gel & cyp covered under most insurance. if not then most of the ancillaries available overseas

You really have no idea what you are talking about. See some doctors before mixing up a crazy formula made up in your head. Are you over 18, btw?

 

[LMuscle]

50mg injection twice a week puts me waaaay out of range. At 50mg I'm over 800 the morning of injection BEFORE injection. So after injection I'm well over 1500. Having test levels higher than 700 makes me feel like sh-t, and really angry. 25mg twice a week keeps me near perfect.

 

[abs322]

what are/were your baseline levels before starting TRT? since clinical normal is anywhere from ~250-1100 the clinical candidate for TRT would be starting at ~<250 ng/dl and I dont think 100mg /week is going to take a 100-200 ng/dl patient to 1000 ng/dl. If you are starting at 400-500+ then clinically you are not a TRT candidate other than for cosmetic or personal feeling reasons and technically your protocol or anybody else outside the "clinical" candidate would be open to the same ridicule or nonsense as mine since it's not "medically necessary" eh

 

[LMuscle]

what are/were your baseline levels before starting TRT? since clinical normal is anywhere from ~250-1100 the clinical candidate for TRT would be starting at ~<250 ng/dl and I dont think 100mg /week is going to take a 100-200 ng/dl patient to 1000 ng/dl. If you are starting at 400-500+ then clinically you are not a TRT candidate other than for cosmetic or personal feeling reasons and technically your protocol or anybody else outside the "clinical" candidate would be open to the same ridicule or nonsense as mine since it's not "medically necessary" eh

Mine was in the mid 300's, which my doc said was still in range. But since I had a history of doc visits complaining of the same symptoms (low energy, low sex drive, depression that went along with it), he agreed to try TRT after he checked my LH and FSH and found they were through the roof but my testosterone levels weren't going past mid 300 range. I was diagnosed with hypogonadism and started using gel, then shots. From what I can remember the highest my test has ever been was around 700, and that was around 11 years ago. The problems began when I was prescribed Propecia.

 

[kisaj]

There is no set range as different labs use different ranges. Also, when deciding to go on TRT or alternatives, the test number is not the only factor. You need to check everything and then it also comes down to the very basic- How do you feel?

100mg a week can easily have most guys peaking above 1100.

 

[Stupes]

eh? thats a solid protocol.. most docs only prescribe 100mg wk of cyp which is only gonna put you at maybe 500-700 if lucky.. i'd like to be 900-1200+ if on a HRT program. The gel is worth an extra 300-400 ng/dl wk, plus since the gel is a daily application it would help keep the levels high & stable especially as the cyp drops, not to mention if you miss a shot or are late a few days or have to travel, go on vacation etc..its a nice back up. Most docs would prescribe the gel in addition to shots. The adex is needed to combat e2, the caber is needed to combat prolactin, the hcg & clomid is for testical preservation ( i would also add 75mg HMG per month).

you can adjust the gel dose if the cyp dose is higher ie 200mg wk/ cyp + 4 pumps day gel


hcg/hmg/cj1295/ghrp available cheap from china
caber/adex/clomid/gel & cyp covered under most insurance. if not then most of the ancillaries available overseas

1) just use more cyp/enanth instead of shooting AND applying gel - it's retarded. Shoot twice a week to keep levels stable. A lot of doctors prescribe between 100-200, depending on the individual reaction to the dose.
2) find a test level that keeps your e2 in range so you don't need to add a drug like adex at all
3) staying on caber for 3+ months is running a serious risk of burning out your dopamine receptors, like what meth users do to themselves - DON'T do this - holy crap dude.
4) prolactin will not be an issue if you have anything remotely close to a true trt dose.
5) caber and adex are not covered by most insurances for trt patients
6) 200mg test cyp plus gel is no longer a trt dose.

 

[kisaj]

1) just use more cyp/enanth instead of shooting AND applying gel - it's retarded. Shoot twice a week to keep levels stable. A lot of doctors prescribe between 100-200, depending on the individual reaction to the dose.
2) find a test level that keeps your e2 in range so you don't need to add a drug like adex at all
3) staying on caber for 3+ months is running a serious risk of burning out your dopamine receptors, like what meth users do to themselves - DON'T do this - holy crap dude.
4) prolactin will not be an issue if you have anything remotely close to a true trt dose.
5) caber and adex are not covered by most insurances for trt patients
6) 200mg test cyp plus gel is no longer a trt dose.

Stop. You are blowing his mind with intelligence.

 

[carnivore24]

Just thought I throw this out there@ 240mg/week test cyp, I was 1850 36 hours post injection and 1150, six hours before next injection. Blood draws were taken within the same week so that's a very accurate fluctuation represented in one shot.

Yeah I know to high for trt but my doc wanted to try it, and I've cycled before so I'm good with it. As for why I had blood draws done twice in a week. I was curious....

 

[carnivore24]

O range tested for was 250-1000

 

[napalm]

Just thought I throw this out there@ 240mg/week test cyp, I was 1850 36 hours post injection and 1150, six hours before next injection. Blood draws were taken within the same week so that's a very accurate fluctuation represented in one shot.

Yeah I know to high for trt but my doc wanted to try it, and I've cycled before so I'm good with it. As for why I had blood draws done twice in a week. I was curious....

that's not trt, that's a cycle...

i'd be interested what your hgb and hct were...

 

[Stupes]

Just thought I throw this out there@ 240mg/week test cyp, I was 1850 36 hours post injection and 1150, six hours before next injection. Blood draws were taken within the same week so that's a very accurate fluctuation represented in one shot.

Yeah I know to high for trt but my doc wanted to try it, and I've cycled before so I'm good with it. As for why I had blood draws done twice in a week. I was curious....

What was your e2 at? Were you on any anti-e?

 

[kisaj]

Just thought I throw this out there@ 240mg/week test cyp, I was 1850 36 hours post injection and 1150, six hours before next injection. Blood draws were taken within the same week so that's a very accurate fluctuation represented in one shot.

Yeah I know to high for trt but my doc wanted to try it, and I've cycled before so I'm good with it. As for why I had blood draws done twice in a week. I was curious....

I find this very hard to believe and if it is true, I'd be running out of the office of a doctor that wanted to "try" a cycle level dose of test on me. Nice to be a guinea pig when dealing with your hormones. oi vey

 

[carnivore24]

Yeah I know its a cycle dose. As I stated. Mainly I have that high of a dose because I want to be on that high. My thc and hemo were right in the middle don't know them off the top of my head. And the doc is an Endo who rarely does trt, mainly diabetics. He started me at 50mg/ week.... and I so have low t and had blood tests from 5 years back that all came back below 250 prob 10 of them. And I'm not advocating using 240 a week because plain and simple its misuse I just thought people might wanna have an idea where that dose puts you. And the swing a once a week injection has. Also prolactin was 26 which is 7 points high. And e2 was 49 which the limit was 50. I have always been estrogen sensitive though (have probs even at 100 a week). I wasn't on an AI then but have since run low dose letro

 

[abs322]

1) just use more cyp/enanth instead of shooting AND applying gel - it's retarded. Shoot twice a week to keep levels stable. A lot of doctors prescribe between 100-200, depending on the individual reaction to the dose.
2) find a test level that keeps your e2 in range so you don't need to add a drug like adex at all
3) staying on caber for 3+ months is running a serious risk of burning out your dopamine receptors, like what meth users do to themselves - DON'T do this - holy crap dude.
4) prolactin will not be an issue if you have anything remotely close to a true trt dose.
5) caber and adex are not covered by most insurances for trt patients
6) 200mg test cyp plus gel is no longer a trt dose.

not true, most docs will go 100mg/wk, not 200, and only enough to bump you into the clinical normal range which may be alot lower then where you want it to be. regarding the prolactin, .5 mg/wk caber is not going to do that and prolactin is an issue with the ghrp, not the test cyp/enanth. there's nothing wrong with taking adex and the test levels I want to be at if i'm going to permanently shut down my hpta axis on TRT is gonna be ~1200ng/dl which will more than likely require some form af anti-e. Adex is covered by mine in generic form: $20 for 90 day supply, caber/dostinex is also covered but is also available overseas. As said perviously 100 mg/wk test cyp is not going to put someone starting under 250 ng/dl up to 1200 ng/dl however when combined with the gel it will certainly help, especially if the doc is hesitant to raise the test cyp dose, he's more likely to prescribe the gel if you ask since its more practical for traveling etc..


you can google dostinex or cabergoline for life extension or similiar to find detailed info on that.

anyway this would be my protocol based on what i want out of a trt program if i'm going to take the plunge into a permanent type hormone manipulation program.. building a better body through science as bill phillips old muscle media 20000 catch phrase used to be.

 

[Stupes]

not true, most docs will go 100mg/wk, not 200, and only enough to bump you into the clinical normal range which may be alot lower then where you want it to be. regarding the prolactin, .5 mg/wk caber is not going to do that and prolactin is an issue with the ghrp, not the test cyp/enanth. there's nothing wrong with taking adex and the test levels I want to be at if i'm going to permanently shut down my hpta axis on TRT is gonna be ~1200ng/dl which will more than likely require some form af anti-e. Adex is covered by mine in generic form: $20 for 90 day supply, caber/dostinex is also covered but is also available overseas. As said perviously 100 mg/wk test cyp is not going to put someone starting under 250 ng/dl up to 1200 ng/dl however when combined with the gel it will certainly help, especially if the doc is hesitant to raise the test cyp dose, he's more likely to prescribe the gel if you ask since its more practical for traveling etc..


you can google dostinex or cabergoline for life extension or similiar to find detailed info on that.

anyway this would be my protocol based on what i want out of a trt program if i'm going to take the plunge into a permanent type hormone manipulation program.. building a better body through science as bill phillips old muscle media 20000 catch phrase used to be.

You are a moron. I am done with this.

 

[abs322]

You are a moron. I am done with this.

perhaps you need to change your screenename to stupid instead of stupes?? eh

 

[Stupes]

perhaps you need to change your screenename to stupid instead of stupes?? eh

Agreed - I am dumber after simply reading your idiotic protocol.....