Thyroid/Insulin/Cortisol

[threeFs]

Hey guys
I originally posted my labs in the weight loss section but after some analysis, I think my situation is hormone related. I am seeing an endo (5th doctor thus far) for his analysis.
Basically, the story is like this:
I've had "love handles" my entire life, puberty at age 8, fast weight gain from eating any carbs, migraine headaches with vision loss, lethargy/naps. My mother has been on synthyroid her whole life from xray treatments for strep throat as a child. Her whole side of the family was type I diabetic. My father was adopted, so no family history available.
I was raised vegetarian and ate 90% carbs until I turned about 22. Bagels, bread, cookies, brownies, pasta, chips, peanut butter & jelly sand, cheese pizza, skim milk. That's about all I ever ate because I never knew any better. The only real fat part of me is specifically in the love handles.

I have been unable to lose love handles no matter what I do. Eating 1500cals/day didn't help. Eating 3000 cals/day didn't help. 16 hr fasting/day didn't help. That just made me not hungry at all.
Some have looked at my labs and said low thyroid, some have said metabolic syndrome, adrenal fatigue, low cholesterol, pre-diabetic, some have said just make dietary changes. I tried eating carbs the last 3 weeks and gained 15 lbs. (197-->212) I usually eat close to keto. My daily macros have been around 50g carbs, 100g fat, 300g protein.
workouts 5 days (used to be 7) HIIT, weights. Jump rope, stairs+70lbs, squat 275 a2g, bench 250, palms out pullups x10-12

Also, cortisol levels were .26 (7am) .09 (12pm), .08(5pm) .06(10pm)
Currently on test cyp inj for TRT 120/week (50mg tues, 70mg fri)
age 35, 212lbs now, 5'9 (my brother is 6'4)
Anyhow, I'd love to hear your input. Thanks

 

[Mr.TT]

Have you used DHT suppressors????

 

[threeFs]

Negative

 

[The Matrix]

Negative

Body was probably put in a state of inflammation. Most vegetarians have higher risk of food allergies as they get in to late teens early 20's due to all the gluten they consumed over the past years. Cortisol levels being in low to normal range in a state of possible inflammation is not what you want to see. I would want to see an elevated response ..You probably naturally castrated your self being a vegetarian all those years..

 

[threeFs]

yeah, thanks mom and dad...

So any ideas on how to become better?

EDIT...
Oh, also was put on antibiotics (erythromyocin) for about 2 years for "acne"...yet another horrible piece of the puzzle

 

[rambofireball]

..You probably naturally castrated your self being a vegetarian all those years..

Could you please explain?

 

[The Matrix]

Could you please explain?

Due to the changing in genetic expressions, it is being found that our immune system is drastically changing. Vegetarians 30 years ago are not the same of today. Their diets are basically putting the body into a pro-inflammatory state, causing irritation to the intestinal wall, blocking nutrients from absorption due to increases of phytates, and other natural chelating minerals. Vegan diets are grain based which high high gluten, lechithen, soy content which has been shown to be associated with other autoimmune disorders. Diets high in carbs as indicated from his past history would put a person at higher risk of diabetes which is known to have lower T levels from possible depletion of zinc, magnesium, ect.

Unfortunately, the consequences of poor lifestyles and choice are what majority of health issues orginate from.

 

[threeFs]

Due to the changing in genetic expressions, it is being found that our immune system is drastically changing. Vegetarians 30 years ago are not the same of today. Their diets are basically putting the body into a pro-inflammatory state, causing irritation to the intestinal wall, blocking nutrients from absorption due to increases of phytates, and other natural chelating minerals. Vegan diets are grain based which high high gluten, lechithen, soy content which has been shown to be associated with other autoimmune disorders. Diets high in carbs as indicated from his past history would put a person at higher risk of diabetes which is known to have lower T levels from possible depletion of zinc, magnesium, ect.

Unfortunately, the consequences of poor lifestyles and choice are what majority of health issues orginate from.

Yeah, that about sums it up. Low T for sure, hence being on TRT. 2 of my later years were vegan because I "liked the challenge." Lots of soy protein and gluten, grains and legumes. Disaster. Probably also the cause of the vitiligo on my back.
So though there is no doubt about the causes and problems, I am still seeking insight for solutions.

 

[The Matrix]

Yeah, that about sums it up. Low T for sure, hence being on TRT. 2 of my later years were vegan because I "liked the challenge." Lots of soy protein and gluten, grains and legumes. Disaster. Probably also the cause of the vitiligo on my back.So though there is no doubt about the causes and problems, I am still seeking insight for solutions.

Go back to basicsfind where the imbalances are then correct them at the source. (GI, Liver and reducing inflammation)

 

[Mr.TT]

His labs show FT at top of range, and DHT at bottom of range. Is this nornal on TRT?

ThreeFs, do you have signs of delayed puberty????? ( is low DHT a life long condition?)

 

[threeFs]

His labs show FT at top of range, and DHT at bottom of range. Is this nornal on TRT?

ThreeFs, do you have signs of delayed puberty????? ( is low DHT a life long condition?)

No, early puberty...age 8. My parents told me that the endo told them to "keep an eye on it," but that's all that ever came out of it. For my deepening voice at age 8, they told me to "not yell so much" and that is why my voice was getting deeper.

 

[The Matrix]

No, early puberty...age 8. My parents told me that the endo told them to "keep an eye on it," but that's all that ever came out of it. For my deepening voice at age 8, they told me to "not yell so much" and that is why my voice was getting deeper.

You raised on soy milk?

 

[threeFs]

You raised on soy milk?

skim milk, fat free cheeses, margarine, lots of bread, cake, bagels, some soy protein like seitan and tofu. Not really much protein at all though

 

[threeFs]

the endo wants an MRI on my pituitary first. He also did an a1c blood test. He seemed like he's leaning towards Metformin. He said the low T4 but normal other thyroid levels may be a pituitary problem.

and so it continues.

hard to take medical advice from a 350 LB doctor though. WTF. I think I'm going back to the original endo. He didn't know about any of this when I originally went to get testoserone.

 

[rambofireball]

the endo wants an MRI on my pituitary first. He also did an a1c blood test. He seemed like he's leaning towards Metformin. He said the low T4 but normal other thyroid levels may be a pituitary problem.

and so it continues.

hard to take medical advice from a 350 LB doctor though. WTF. I think I'm going back to the original endo. He didn't know about any of this when I originally went to get testoserone.

Lol, I haven't met a fit endo yet, been through 5.

 

[threeFs]

Unreal. Absolutely disgusting.

 

[The Matrix]

skim milk, fat free cheeses, margarine, lots of bread, cake, bagels, some soy protein like seitan and tofu. Not really much protein at all though

Like I said "self castration" and perfect habits for type 2 diabetes.

 

[threeFs]

would metformin help me lose the love handles? I already eat low carb and I thought metformin just reduces insulin

 

[vassille]

yeah, thanks mom and dad...

So any ideas on how to become better?

EDIT...
Oh, also was put on antibiotics (erythromyocin) for about 2 years for "acne"...yet another horrible piece of the puzzle

Gut health is prob the first thing I would start to make improvements.The immune system works extensively in the gut. The more inflamation you create through foods the busier the immune system will be but you dont want an overactive immune system. You will not believe the amount of inflamation that goes on in the gut.
THe way I figured some of my issues was through trial and error. I ate foods and noticed what happened. Since I started doing this I have not gotten sick once. When I eat someting that causes inflamation I get sick or have a tummy ache now and I eliminate that food or eat it very rare.
Also, like I said in your other post I still think you have adrenal fatigue/methabolic syndrome. For you to gain this much weight so quick it tells me one thing...your cells do not work right at all. When you eat carbs it all goes to fat storage and very little if any at all goes to energy production. These cells with the right diet will start to repair themselves but it will take some time. It took me roughly 6 months to see results and I wasnt half as bad as your situation. I think most important is to figure out what foods work for you then go from there and stick with it.
Im afraid this is going to be a lifestyle change more than a few months diet.

 

[vassille]

would metformin help me lose the love handles? I already eat low carb and I thought metformin just reduces insulin

You can try it, if you have no success in fixing the problem at the cell level with other means. I'd use metforming as last resort. Problem is that if the cells are damaged what's metforming going to do... mask the problem even more....!

 

[threeFs]

Thanks. I guess I'm just going back to the way I was eating: 50g of carbohydrates or less, 100g fat and 250-300 g protein. That seemed to be best for me.
It is unfortunate that I see so many people eat "reasonable" amounts of carbohydrates without any problem. But I can't even look at carbs without weight gain. My wife for one can eat bread with dinner and a bowl of ice cream daily and keeps her 6 pack abs. She jokes about how much more cut she could be if she cut that stuff out.
In the meantime, I have dropped from 212 to 208 in the past week with no carbs. Hopefully the weight gain will somehow make it easier for me to get below my start of 197. I actually don't care at all about weight. I will be satisfied at any weight as long as I lose the love handles.

 

[threeFs]

Also I will update after I get the results of the a1c blood sugar test today. I'd rather not take metformin but if it helps the midsection, it might be worth a shot. We'll see what the 350 lb endo says.

On another note, I am going to have a MRI on the pituitary just to make sure there's no tumor. Once that's ruled out, I can feel like I've exhausted all my options.
I'm also considering trying t3 and t4 to see if they help fat loss. I also have clen already

 

[vassille]

I would do a glucose tolerance test to see how much glucose your body pumps out.
I know the frustration, although I didnt have it as bad as you I went through similar situation with the blood glucose. Key thing is to understand what cells do..being muscle cells, or fat cells and how hormones affects them. If you have some spare time look into biochemistry lessons and check out diabetes. I've learned a lot like that.

 

[vassille]

I would do a glucose tolerance test to see how much glucose your body pumps out.
I know the frustration, although I didnt have it as bad as you I went through similar situation with the blood glucose. Key thing is to understand what cells do..being muscle cells, or fat cells and how hormones affects them. If you have some spare time look into biochemistry lessons and check out diabetes. I've learned a lot like that.

 

[Mr.TT]

I'm also considering trying t3 and t4 to see if they help fat loss. I also have clen already

THYROIDS are something I know about. Adding extra T3 and/or T4 will not help you reduce fat, atleast not for long.
Your thyroid labs do not indicate a need for meds. If love/handles really bug you, have you considered liposuction?

 

[threeFs]

The endo said my a1c is 5.23% or "normal"
He said get the pituitary MRI and consider liposuction.

I really can't believe that I'm destined for love handles forever. On the other hand, I surely will not have cosmetic fat removal surgery.
Looks like now I will just go hard into ketosis and maintain that until I burn the fat. Not sure really what else to do. Apparently, "I'm fine" or whatever. But actually, I'm not fine.

 

[vassille]

if your aim is really body fat reduction only, look into high intensity training and look into doing a cycle with strict keto diet.
Sometimes I like to do 45min workouts and basically take no more than 30sec rest between sets and exercises. I trim up nicely doing it like that.

 

[threeFs]

I still think something is wrong metabolically with me. A fasting blood sugar of 99 is pre diabetic. Even the obese endo yesterday acknowledged that and in fact mentioned some docs treat >85 as pre diabetic.
Gaining 15 lbs in a month by adding carbohydrates is not normal.
Anyhow, onward I will fight until satisfied with my doctor(s) and my body fat.
But I wonder if at some point in my life I was Type II diabetic. That might make sense to me.
Back to <25g carbs

 

[vassille]

I think you are on the right track of thinking with the 99 being diabetic. From what I've gathered fat burning occurs more around 85 and much less around 99. This is in direct correlation with the insulin glucagon balance.
This explains why when you go super low carb your body supresses insulin and gives glucagon a chance to start acting on fat burning. I also agree that you do have something wrong with you, methabolic syndrome. This is exactely what it is, cells cant burn glucose properly.
One thing you can do to aid in this problem is to build as much muscle as you can and keep the receptors on the cells clean by eating a low carb so if you have higher than normal glucose it will be used by the cells for energy instead of floating around in your system.
If you stay on low carbs long enough like 6 months or more you should see fasting blood sugar around 85. Mine used to be around 99 too and it's dropped down to 80 on occasions but mostly stays in the 80s now but I also build 40lbs of muscle over the years and it helped tremendously in keeping blood glucose more constant. The one thing that just kills me are grains. I stay the heck away from those.

 

[kateean2]

His labs show FT at top of range, and DHT at bottom of range.

 

[threeFs]

His labs show FT at top of range, and DHT at bottom of range.

By FT, are you referring to free testosterone? If so, I'm not sure anything in the 500's is top of the range as the highest in the range is 1100. But I am concerned with the low DHT.
Will DHT eventually rise as I'm on test cyp injections?
Also, estradiol seems a bit high as well. I started taking 1 erase pro on Tuesday and Friday after test injections. Hopefully that will have a a lowering effect on estradiol.
If E2 goes gown, will DHT rise? Or just total test?

 

[vassille]

Free T is high because SHBG is low. Nothing wrong with that..all this means is that there isnt anything binding to the free T which is a good thing. When Free T keeps going up so is the DHT unless there is an enzyme that's missing or works slow. That's the enzyme which the meds for baldness targets btw.
By doing a cycle I was more aiming to increase protein synthesis and muscle mass so the cells will get going rather than dealing with DHT. I dont even think there is a problem with DHT.
Keep E2 around 20

 

[threeFs]

OK, sounds fine then. I shave my head anyway so not concerned with baldness. But thanks for the info

 

[vassille]

lol safe bet

 

[Mr.TT]

Have you considered HCG?
It will maintain your fertility and ball size, raise your thyroid output (lose more fat), increase your TT.
You can sublingual it (YES you can, I have, with blood lab results), or inject it if you really enjoy that.

 

[threeFs]

Drastic times call for drastic measures. I'd consider hcg or anything else. But not sure I can find a doc to rx it for me

 

[Mr.TT]

Rx....Rx????? I forgot about prescriptions. R U in LE??

I am heading to refrig right now, and scrape the labels off my HCG bottles.

 

[threeFs]

Rx....Rx????? I forgot about prescriptions. R U in LE??

I am heading to refrig right now, and scrape the labels off my HCG bottles.

I don't understand any of this

 

[The Matrix]

I don't understand any of this

don't feel.bad.neither do.most doctors ...lol

 

[threeFs]

That is something I can tell right away in my journey. 5 docs, 5 different opinions

But I was referring to I don't understand what he meant by am I in LE and also about the labels on the hcg.

 

[The Matrix]

Hey guys
I originally posted my labs in the weight loss section but after some analysis, I think my situation is hormone related. I am seeing an endo (5th doctor thus far) for his analysis.
Basically, the story is like this:
I've had "love handles" my entire life, puberty at age 8, fast weight gain from eating any carbs, migraine headaches with vision loss, lethargy/naps. My mother has been on synthyroid her whole life from xray treatments for strep throat as a child. Her whole side of the family was type I diabetic. My father was adopted, so no family history available.
I was raised vegetarian and ate 90% carbs until I turned about 22. Bagels, bread, cookies, brownies, pasta, chips, peanut butter & jelly sand, cheese pizza, skim milk. That's about all I ever ate because I never knew any better. The only real fat part of me is specifically in the love handles.

I have been unable to lose love handles no matter what I do. Eating 1500cals/day didn't help. Eating 3000 cals/day didn't help. 16 hr fasting/day didn't help. That just made me not hungry at all.
Some have looked at my labs and said low thyroid, some have said metabolic syndrome, adrenal fatigue, low cholesterol, pre-diabetic, some have said just make dietary changes. I tried eating carbs the last 3 weeks and gained 15 lbs. (197-->212) I usually eat close to keto. My daily macros have been around 50g carbs, 100g fat, 300g protein.
workouts 5 days (used to be 7) HIIT, weights. Jump rope, stairs+70lbs, squat 275 a2g, bench 250, palms out pullups x10-12

Also, cortisol levels were .26 (7am) .09 (12pm), .08(5pm) .06(10pm)
Currently on test cyp inj for TRT 120/week (50mg tues, 70mg fri)
age 35, 212lbs now, 5'9 (my brother is 6'4)
Anyhow, I'd love to hear your input. Thanks


View attachment 70963View attachment 70962

Zinc RBC is low which may be due to copper toxicity or inability to absorb zinc from the intestinal tract. Zinc is lowered in pre-diabetic states

 

[threeFs]

Zinc RBC is low which may be due to copper toxicity or inability to absorb zinc from the intestinal tract. Zinc is lowered in pre-diabetic states

I've recently been supplementing with zinc. Hopefully this will help. One of the 5 docs I've been to thinks that elevating my test and DHT levels will correct most of my problems.

 

[The Matrix]

You can try it, if you have no success in fixing the problem at the cell level with other means. I'd use metforming as last resort. Problem is that if the cells are damaged what's metforming going to do... mask the problem even more....!

it ends up causing b-12 and other imbalances. Look for the cause not the symptoms.

 

[The Matrix]

I've recently been supplementing with zinc. Hopefully this will help. One of the 5 docs I've been to thinks that elevating my test and DHT levels will correct most of my problems.

This Dr at least knows something from testing which has been ran. Kudos to him ...Still needs to dig deeper, but on right track.

 

[threeFs]

Definitely avoiding metformin unless I have to go on. Still not sure why an endo would give me metformin on a keto diet. I guess I'm going back the the endo I first went to, doc #2. He rx'd me the test and hasn't seen all my other blood work. He did order a pituitary MRI and I'm doing that tomorrow. So we'll see what comes out of it.

 

[The Matrix]

Definitely avoiding metformin unless I have to go on. Still not sure why an endo would give me metformin on a keto diet. I guess I'm going back the the endo I first went to, doc #2. He rx'd me the test and hasn't seen all my other blood work. He did order a pituitary MRI and I'm doing that tomorrow. So we'll see what comes out of it.

Most.of this can be controlled through lifestyles and stress management the insulin issues. Drugs replace lifestyle changes basically encourages worse habits. "Dr x my blood sugar was 141 this.morning" drs reply "double up.on glipzide " instead of "stop eating a bowl of icecream and cake before going to bed".

 

[vassille]

Most.of this can be controlled through lifestyles and stress management the insulin issues. Drugs replace lifestyle changes basically encourages worse habits. "Dr x my blood sugar was 141 this.morning" drs reply "double up.on glipzide " instead of "stop eating a bowl of icecream and cake before going to bed".

I like this one and sad thing is that it is true.

 

[vassille]

Definitely avoiding metformin unless I have to go on. Still not sure why an endo would give me metformin on a keto diet. I guess I'm going back the the endo I first went to, doc #2. He rx'd me the test and hasn't seen all my other blood work. He did order a pituitary MRI and I'm doing that tomorrow. So we'll see what comes out of it.

That puzzled me too because there is very little need for metforming on this diet. Fat uses a different pathway to produce energy through the cell and protein uses much less insulin than glucose does. So im not sure what is your doc thinking.
In your case I'd like to see your hormones towards the top end if you are using HRT. For test keep it around 800-1000 and for thyroid go by feel. If you start to shake and have heart palpitations then back off dosage.
And also pay attention to your digestive track, the better you absorb nutrients the better. Matrix is on point with his advice too.

 

[The Matrix]

That puzzled me too because there is very little need for metforming on this diet. Fat uses a different pathway to produce energy through the cell and protein uses much less insulin than glucose does. So im not sure what is your doc thinking.
In your case I'd like to see your hormones towards the top end if you are using HRT. For test keep it around 800-1000 and for thyroid go by feel. If you start to shake and have heart palpitations then back off dosage.
And also pay attention to your digestive track, the better you absorb nutrients the better. Matrix is on point with his advice too.

GI recovery I have seen when people Gi tracts are properly taken care of is remarkable. I had a client who was taking allpurinol which is basically battery acid to the GI tract for 6 years. After a year of heavy gut rebalancing, balancing his hormoness he has been able to sit on his can not goto the gym for three months still getting leaner and healthier as time goes on. I eat 2000 calories a day, but have trained my body to have it assimilate it if it was 3000 plus. Eating 4 meals a day 1500-2000 calories a day on average maintaining at 210 lean physique still be able to squat 405 for 10-12 reps approaching 40 years old..Must be doing something right Actually looking to publish a paper on GI protocols with in the next 6 months to a year having over a decade of research involved ..

 

[rambofireball]

GI recovery I have seen when people Gi tracts are properly taken care of is remarkable. I had a client who was taking allpurinol which is basically battery acid to the GI tract for 6 years. After a year of heavy gut rebalancing, balancing his hormoness he has been able to sit on his can not goto the gym for three months still getting leaner and healthier as time goes on. I eat 2000 calories a day, but have trained my body to have it assimilate it if it was 3000 plus. Eating 4 meals a day 1500-2000 calories a day on average maintaining at 210 lean physique still be able to squat 405 for 10-12 reps approaching 40 years old..Must be doing something right Actually looking to publish a paper on GI protocols with in the next 6 months to a year having over a decade of research involved ..

If you have the time, I'm really interested in this Gi recovery work.

By GI recovery, are you talking about correcting flora imbalances?

How might one determine the need for GI recovery, and how would they go about this without the help of a mastermind like yourself?

Any level of detail is appreciated.