Lowered to 100mg/wk test cyp

[kisaj]

I've been on 125mg e6d for over a year now with great results and no E2 problems, but I wasn't convinced that I needed to be that high because recent blood work showed I was in the 1200-1300 range a few days after inject. So I decided a few weeks ago to lower to 100mg e6d. I can honestly say, that I can't believe the difference. I feel absolutely amazing, libido through the roof, and no agitation at all. I'll be getting bloods in a month or so, but it really has made a big difference.

Thought I'd share since I have experience on TRT (it will be 2 years come spring) and have been slowly lowering my test doses with better and better results.

 

[Pericles]

Excellent! Are you taking any complimentary meds, or just the T?

 

[The Matrix]

I've been on 125mg e6d for over a year now with great results and no E2 problems, but I wasn't convinced that I needed to be that high because recent blood work showed I was in the 1200-1300 range a few days after inject. So I decided a few weeks ago to lower to 100mg e6d. I can honestly say, that I can't believe the difference. I feel absolutely amazing, libido through the roof, and no agitation at all. I'll be getting bloods in a month or so, but it really has made a big difference.

Thought I'd share since I have experience on TRT (it will be 2 years come spring) and have been slowly lowering my test doses with better and better results.

Been telling people this.for.years less is.more. Why i look at.all.factors in a persons case then correct each one to bring their whole system back.in check allowing them.to.lower their dosage under Dr.care significantly with out the.least with draw. Eventually person can even come off of trt if.conditions are correct.on to.clomid or.hcg. Accomplished this several times with open minded doctors. I was.just to.be asked to be a resource for what will.be the usa largest wellness group where over several hundred medical and.health professions will be working together as it should.be for the good.of the patient ..

 

[kisaj]

Excellent! Are you taking any complimentary meds, or just the T?

Nothing but test. Stopped taking Erase when I went from 150 to 125. I was fine without it. Now at 100, it's even better than 125. I'm going to get bloods in a month or two and then then may try to drop to 75 and see how I feel. All lifting (big 3) has surpassed old records, cardio is at a high level, fat level is low, weight is steady, and energy levels are high (even after staying up multiple nights with sick kids).

I do supplement with stinging nettle, vitamin E, and noots (bacopa, ani, choline), but those have been staples for me for a long time.

 

[hawaiijedi]

Do you guys think that libido is better on a lower dose? I am on 200mg of test cypionate per week and I am confused as to how less test dosing would make you stronger, higher libido, etc. I'd appreciate if someone could explain why? I thought that libido would be much higher at 200mg every week.

 

[The Matrix]

Do you guys think that libido is better on a lower dose? I am on 200mg of test cypionate per week and I am confused as to how less test dosing would make you stronger, higher libido, etc. I'd appreciate if someone could explain why? I thought that libido would be much higher at 200mg every week.

More is.not.better.optimize what.is.there by addressing other factors which complement trt. Very simple concept ...but common sense.is.highly overlooked.in.medicine ..

 

[hawaiijedi]

I understand the concept of more is not better.. I just wanted clarification on how a lower dose would be better for libido. So if I lowered my weekly dose from 200mg to 100 mg would my libido be better?

 

[The Matrix]

I understand the concept of more is not better.. I just wanted clarification on how a lower dose would be better for libido. So if I lowered my weekly dose from 200mg to 100 mg would my libido be better?

Its not the amount of testosterone but rather its balance with other hormones you are causing by taking higher dosages. I can not tell you how many guys when I suggested Dr might want to lower dosage got all pissy and scared. Amazingly vast majority of them when other factors where properly tuned up they felt better then on 200 mgs per week. IMO 200 mgs per week is compensating for either low GH or some other factor. It makes you feel good because of its effect on neurotransmitters, after a while this tends to wear off them you are right back to square one. This are the cases what I deal with from Dr's. Other underlying issues where never addressed and it comes back to smack you in the ass later...

 

[kisaj]

I will have to lean on Matrix and others that have a better understanding of how everything works together when it comes to hormones. I can tell you that 200mg a week for me was terrible and while it made me feel like a machine, it messed with my emotions, libido, skin, and general state of mind. Once I started lowering by 25 mg increments, things started to get better and better. 125mg was great for me in terms of not having rage or agitation following injections and keeping libido high. That being said, I still didn't like the thought of being in the 1200+ range of test, because I am aiming for the best life health wise too. Now being at 100 starting my 4th week, my state of mind has never been more positive or happy, and libido is like being 21 again. It feels like being at this lower dose, everything is just coming together- and it only took me 20 months to get here. LOL

 

[LMuscle]

I will have to lean on Matrix and others that have a better understanding of how everything works together when it comes to hormones. I can tell you that 200mg a week for me was terrible and while it made me feel like a machine, it messed with my emotions, libido, skin, and general state of mind. Once I started lowering by 25 mg increments, things started to get better and better. 125mg was great for me in terms of not having rage or agitation following injections and keeping libido high. That being said, I still didn't like the thought of being in the 1200+ range of test, because I am aiming for the best life health wise too. Now being at 100 starting my 4th week, my state of mind has never been more positive or happy, and libido is like being 21 again. It feels like being at this lower dose, everything is just coming together- and it only took me 20 months to get here. LOL

I'm actually lowering my dose AGAIN starting today. Going from 30mg 3x/week to 25mg 3x/week.

 

[hawaiijedi]

Thank you Matrix for the great reply and also kisaj when you were on the 200mg a week dose was your libido higher than it is now or would you say it was less even though you felt like a machine?

 

[kisaj]

It was high for about a month because I was coming from 200 levels and I think my body was loving the surge. Then that quickly wore off and turned me into a no sex wanting, moody mess. I was only on 200 for a month and a half. The machine part was only because I was so agitated that I had to lift and exercise constantly to keep calm.

Sorry, looking at my personal logs, I was actually on 200 for 3 months. Didn't realize I lasted that long.

 

[hawaiijedi]

I find that so interesting because I feel like my libido has gone down as well and I thought I was going crazy cause I'm taking the 200mg a week and I thought that my libido should been sky high. So kisaj your libido disappeared with the 200mg dosage after a month.

 

[kisaj]

Yes. Likely due to side that such high test causes- like high e2. Can you take things to drop this or stop it- yeah. But why (?), when you can simply not take so much test.

 

[LMuscle]

Yes. Likely due to side that such high test causes- like high e2. Can you take things to drop this or stop it- yeah. But why (?), when you can simply not take so much test.

Exactly, I'm still lowering my doses to find what's best for me. If I have to lower my dose to 10mg 3 times a week, so be it. I'll still be in mid range haha

 

[The Matrix]

Exactly, I'm still lowering my doses to find what's best for me. If I have to lower my dose to 10mg 3 times a week, so be it. I'll still be in mid range haha

Now the light bulbs are starting to finally kick on LOL...

 

[Pericles]

It was high for about a month because I was coming from 200 levels and I think my body was loving the surge. Then that quickly wore off and turned me into a no sex wanting, moody mess.

I found this to be exactly my case as well. At 200 I felt like Superman, wanted sex all the time and had the 'machine' thing going...for about two months. Total Test was around 1,200 and E2 at about 6...then I started getting moody, not thinking about sex, but physically strong. I'm following the recommendations of the folks on this board and am slowly tapering off until I hit the sweet spot.

 

[kisaj]

Good for you. Also, like I mentioned, I have passed all my old lifts, cardio is way up, and I have body fat % like I am actually trying to lower it (haha). So, you don't need all that test to make great gains.

 

[vassille]

THere are 2 things here:
If you want strength and growth 200mg + a week is a cycle dosage.
Quality of life is nother story. Someone asked why 200mg is worse than 100mg in terms of libido. Very simple.
Our bodies work efficient at normal ranges of testosterone. 400-1000 is a good range to play with and around 20 for the free test and estrogen. When the testosterone is out of range then free test is out too and that's when things go bad. Free test affects a host of other hormons which knocks them out of balance and kills sex drive and makes ppl moody. Dont forget the brain gets these signals as well and our bodies always like balance.
So if you want to cycle a higher dosage that's fine for a few months then go back to normal range.

 

[vassille]

Good for you. Also, like I mentioned, I have passed all my old lifts, cardio is way up, and I have body fat % like I am actually trying to lower it (haha). So, you don't need all that test to make great gains.

I experienced similar effects, and with a good diet the gains were great.

 

[hawaiijedi]

Thanks for the awesome posts guys, very informative. I have another stupid question but I have been under a lot of stress lately and only get about 5 hours sleep a night. Even on my high dose of 200mg a week my strength has not gone up maybe went down a little bit. Do you think it's due to the stress and lack of sleep?

 

[tenntarheel]

Good for you. Also, like I mentioned, I have passed all my old lifts, cardio is way up, and I have body fat % like I am actually trying to lower it (haha). So, you don't need all that test to make great gains.

No doubt. With everything in place(diet, training, sleep) you don't have to have a crazy level of serum test to make great gains. Hell, in my avatar pic my test levels were probably no higher than 400ng with no exogenous test, and I still made gains. Now they are low 200s and I'm searching for a doc now lol, not really funny actually.

Hawaii, strength not going up could be all sorts of things. Sleep is definitely one. Diet, training, overtraining, etc all can have huge impacts on strength and nervous system recovery.

 

[hawaiijedi]

Thanks for the great reply, I do notice that even though my strength is down I have incredible pumps in the gym and my muscles have gotten bigger and denser. Just perplexed about the strength not going up.

 

[The Matrix]

Thanks for the great reply, I do notice that even though my strength is down I have incredible pumps in the gym and my muscles have gotten bigger and denser. Just perplexed about the strength not going up.

Need to address other areas not focusing on hormone rather rest,.recooperation and.proper.balance.diet specific to.your.biochemistry

You.grow outside the.gym not in it!!
Strength is genetically.determined..

 

[vassille]

Strength is slowly built up. Muscle fibers need to experience stress then it adjusts and that's when strength goes up.
It's a slow process of adaptation over a few months at least, if not years. There is also the genetic factor and of course sleep/nutrition.
Another part is IGF. If your body has a low production of Growth Hormone will result in a lower IGF consequently. In this scenario there are fewer muscle fiber created long term and that will result in weaker contraction regardless of the testesterone levels.

 

[hawaiijedi]

You guys are awesome thanks, so as far as sleep goes do you think minimum of 8 hours as well as for nutrition 1g of protein per bodyweight?

 

[kisaj]

It's different for everyone. I haven't slept for more than 5-6 hours in 10+ years and that is what my body is used to. If I get 7-8, then I drag ass all day and am groggy. The key isn't the amount, it's the quality. If you get REM and sleep well for a shorter period, it is better than sleeping light for longer.

I have two little girls (5 and 1 1/2), so I've dealt with 2-3 hour chunks for some time now.

Same goes for nutrition. There are general guidelines, but it is dependent on your goals and what your body works best with. To say that I would need 200-250 grams of protein to build muscle simply isn't the case. I've cut back since my 20s and continued to grow because I addressed other areas like excess carb intake, lowering sodium, upping fats, and watching sugars. I'm not a freak about it by any means, but I am aware and try to make better decisions.

 

[hawaiijedi]

Thanks kisaj for your help and I think you guys are awesome with the quick replies.

 

[vassille]

Im experimenting with around 1g per lb of body weight or less of protein. I used to keep it a bit higher around 1.5 but felt that some protein was broken down for energy. Since I increased my fat intake I seem to respond well to lower protein.
So far so good will see in a few weeks how the bulk goes

 

[kisaj]

bulking at 6', 245? you are going to be a monster.

 

[The Matrix]

bulking at 6', 245? you are going to be a monster.

I use digestive enzyme with every client. Eat less get.more bank.for buck less toxic residue

 

[LMuscle]

I use digestive enzyme with every client. Eat less get.more bank.for buck less toxic residue

Is there a certain brand of digestive enzymes you recommend?

 

[threeFs]

Very interesting thread. We have a giant bottle of digestive enzymes that my wife takes, but I will start today!
Also, I'm on test cyp 100/wk and felt like a superstar for about 3 weeks. Now, in week 5 I have noticed sex drive is low again and overall vitality is less that 10/10 like it was in the beginning. Just went in for full blood work yesterday (10 vials + cortisol saliva 4x) to check hormones and see what is going on.
Good stuff guys. Thanks

 

[The Matrix]

Is there a certain brand of digestive enzymes you recommend?

Depends on the case if I suggest animal or plant based with/wo HCL bile and so forth. Why you use proper evaluation to best guide recommendations