How to add Pp products to you Anti-Aging Medicines.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Valdez View Post
    I posted the wrong ****? Lol! Go buy some DAA to help with trt ; )
    yeah you're the idiot who posted that TRT test plus "natural test" (to put it in idiot/your terms) = total test LMFAO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Valdez View Post
    Dude... They don't test for exogenous vs endogenous. I think that's where you're hung up. If you're on Andro gel, then that, on top of your normal levels is what it will read.

    Here lets say:

    You BL (base line) = 260 ng/dl

    They rx you 2mg (not very familiar with gel dosages since I think they are worthless).

    That 2mg bumps you up 560 ng/dl which will equal end result 820 ng/dl total test.
    bump this.
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    who is the idiot?
    •   
       

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    you = no fcking idea WTF you are talking about, not even basic 101 stuff.

    me = asking questions about PP products or test boosters or whatever, and how they effect TRT, if at all.

    all that = you + idiot.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WARBIRDWS6

    yeah you're the idiot who posted that TRT test plus "natural test" (to put it in idiot/your terms) = total test LMFAO.
    Dude, how old are you? Saying the adults are talking...? You're throwing a fit like my 4 year old.

    You forgot to add my other posts. What test has a way of deciphering in your body exogenous testosterone and endogenous testosterone? Until you are completely shut down, which again, does not happen immediately it is the total testosterone in your body that shows up on the blood test. Which again is another reason for varying dosages.


    Quote Originally Posted by WARBIRDWS6
    you = no fcking idea WTF you are talking about, not even basic 101 stuff.

    me = asking questions about PP products or test boosters or whatever, and how they effect TRT, if at all.

    all that = you + idiot.
    Really? Just going to flame and call me an idiot? Good point. You're a joke dude. Enjoy Andropause...

    Also, google and find a clinic that offers a blood test that differentiates testosterone levels exo vs endo. Until then you just sound like an upset child.
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    yeah Okay, that all made about zero sense. who cares what is endo and what is exo? if you take any amount of exogenous test you won't be making anything substantial naturally...the test will show what the TRT dose is doing for you....within the first month or two I am fairly certain the majority of your testosterone # is your TRT. This is the reason I asked how clomid or DAA etc would work into TRT....even if you could get SOME endogenous test going that would be beneficial....probably not gonna happen. Good job ruining the thread though so that nobody will answer the actual question....congratulations... .
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    Quote Originally Posted by WARBIRDWS6
    yeah Okay, that all made about zero sense. who cares what is endo and what is exo? if you take any amount of exogenous test you won't be making anything substantial naturally...the test will show what the TRT dose is doing for you....within the first month or two I am fairly certain the majority of your testosterone # is your TRT. This is the reason I asked how clomid or DAA etc would work into TRT....even if you could get SOME endogenous test going that would be beneficial....probably not gonna happen. Good job ruining the thread though so that nobody will answer the actual question....congratulations... .
    That's what I thought...

    You're still incorrect but at least this time you avoided using insults to try and prove yourself right.

    FYI HCG is what you're looking for. My captains wife runs a TRT clinic out here and that's what they have them on to avoid complete shut down.

    Oh and one of the firefighters that just came off after 4 years results were 236 ng/dl. Kinda puts a hole in your 0 logic, eh? That's after testosterone cypionate injections every week for 4 years and they hadn't incorporated the HCG protocol while he was on.
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    You're welcome for all the advice provided
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valdez View Post
    That's what I thought...

    You're still incorrect but at least this time you avoided using insults to try and prove yourself right.

    FYI HCG is what you're looking for. My captains wife runs a TRT clinic out here and that's what they have them on to avoid complete shut down.
    I am well aware of Hcg, again probably since before you were born. thanks for the obvious "advice" though....not really...

    Quote Originally Posted by Valdez View Post
    You're welcome for all the advice provided
    again...thanks for nothing....
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valdez View Post
    That's what I thought...

    You're still incorrect but at least this time you avoided using insults to try and prove yourself right.

    FYI HCG is what you're looking for. My captains wife runs a TRT clinic out here and that's what they have them on to avoid complete shut down.
    also, remember YOU were the one adding natural test to TRT test (that would be the incorrect statement of this thread, yours not mine)

    thanks for playing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WARBIRDWS6

    I am well aware of Hcg, again probably since before you were born. thanks for the obvious "advice" though....not really...

    again...thanks for nothing....
    Yea you're old... I got that in the other posts. Cool story.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WARBIRDWS6

    also, remember YOU were the one adding natural test to TRT test (that would be the incorrect statement of this thread, yours not mine)

    thanks for playing.
    Again show a test that differentiates the two on the labs... What do you think total test is? TRT rx - natural levels? Your logic is flawed friend.
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    I'll give the guy credit in two regards, A) he keeps getting back up after getting knocked down (proven wrong)....being incorrect does not deter him from getting back into the fight (kind of like a zombie or something), and B) for being redundant about the same incorrect statements he keeps posting about, trying to prove that some how some way, he is correct (even though he is not).
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    I'm done at this point you're just arguing to argue. Just like my girlfriend, again, check estrogen levels. Estrogen dominant individuals tend to be irrational and act out of emotion instead of logical thought.

    I answered because I genuinely wanted to help you. I witnessed AHV3 raise levels to 2600 when starting bloods (on trt) were 800. Feel free to ask HTS about it as I was in contact with him and Eric about it since I was astonished at the Andro series capabilities.

    Take them all dude before, during and after your bloods.

    Lol the bird is angry... Ever see a pea**** at the zoo? In comparison not far off. Both make noise but really have no follow through.

    Good luck bro!
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    I am the guy "arguing just to argue" not him. I am the one that made incorrect statements not him....this guy is a classic example of projection just go look at the "evidence" to find the real offender. I'll leave that to the readers....
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    I'm even willing to buy you a copy of either TRT for dummies or pay for a TRT 101 class at your local community college. I'm a nice guy like that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WARBIRDWS6
    I am the guy "arguing just to argue" not him. I am the one that made incorrect statements not him....this guy is a classic example of projection just go look at the "evidence" to find the real offender. I'll leave that to the readers....
    Quote Originally Posted by WARBIRDWS6
    I'm even willing to buy you a copy of either TRT for dummies or pay for a TRT 101 class at your local community college. I'm a nice guy like that.
    Alright dude a couple of things...

    1. The only reason I haven't Negged you to red for your flamboyant comments is because you are well respected here by many members, myself included. And because in all my time here I've never Negged anyone or even come close because I view it as a childish game.

    2. I've worked in healthcare for about 7 years now in the ER and on the ambulance. My fiancee to be is a nurse, her brother an ER physician and her sister a PA. My captains wife runs a TRT clinic and everyone of the guys I work with are on (minus the select few I coaxed off). Needless to say with that ^, my career and education (that I'm still doing), I'm pretty much immersed in healthcare and have been for almost ten years.

    3. Your non sense ramblings about buying me trt for dummies and a trt class at my community college, while providing entertainment value have done NOTHING to prove your correct.

    In conclusion, I offered you a way to prove yourself right and your rebuttal was more insults. The reason being is that you will not find a test that reads endogenous testosterone and exogenous testosterone as different values.

    What does that prove? Let me break it down for you since you clearly don't understand.

    During TRT you are given an exogenous testosterone source.

    Even if you have 17 ng/dl natural testosterone levels IT WILL BE FOUND IN YOUR BLOOD TEST

    Therefore, your TRT dosages + natural levels WILL show up as one value = TOTAL TESTOSTERONE LEVELS.

    Hormone clinics are constantly having to adjust TRT dosages to make up for declining testosterone levels due to shut down.

    For example:

    Jason goes in for TRT they see his natural levels @ 360 ng/dl

    The goal for a man his age would be base line 800-1200 so they start him with a low dose injection.

    He then goes back for his first blood test they see his total values are at 900. Perfect. So they have him cruising for a while at 900 until his next blood test. He has dropped to about 700, not terrible but not in the range they'd like to see him.

    Why did it drop if the TRT dosage stayed the same?

    NATURAL LEVELS DECLINING, at which point they adjust his dosage accommodating for the drop of TOTAL testosterone values.

    Call your local hormone clinic and ask. It will take 2 minutes of your day, but I'm sure you'd rather not, that way you don't have to admit defeat from someone younger than you.

    Feel free to continue your BS but until you have proof backing up (which you won't find any) your non sense, go kick your dog or hit the gym for stress relief. I've remained respectful stating facts this whole debate while you have done nothing to support your claims.
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    I knew my zombie would be back

    I already proved my point several times in this thread, you were just too thick headed to admit you made a mistake (and that you reiterated it over and over and over again until you figured out you F'd up, and stated you had been confused, then changed your story). I like your essay, you get an A for that, but too little too late. good day sir.
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    and PLEASE don't threaten me with rep LMFAO....I can just picture you sitting there repping 10 people in order to neg rep me again LOL I would laugh my ass off literally that you had to sit there for a week repping out all day in order to "get me again".....then I'd direct you to facebook and the teenage/middle school girls that you could play rep games with.....
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valdez
    Just a heads up for anyone on HRT/TRT. I would NOT get hormone levels tested during a cycle of adding anything to your hormone therapy. Reason being that I have seen insurances cancel coverage after having levels of +1500 ng/dl. Your endo or clinic may also lower the prescription to accommodate for the higher levels. Just a heads up : )
    Quote Originally Posted by Valdez

    Dude... They don't test for exogenous vs endogenous. I think that's where you're hung up. If you're on Andro gel, then that, on top of your normal levels is what it will read.

    Here lets say:

    You BL (base line) = 260 ng/dl

    They rx you 2mg (not very familiar with gel dosages since I think they are worthless).

    That 2mg bumps you up 560 ng/dl which will equal end result 820 ng/dl total test.

    The reason you would pop hot is, the total test levels would be astronomically high 2-3k+, in some individuals. At which point in time, you can be sure they would order a more thorough test.

    SD I'm not as familiar with and I don't think would show up, BUT it MAY convert somewhere downstream to a testosterone metabolite.

    In regards to the Andro Series, (most being metabolites of t) they have a very good chance of raising what you already have while "on", since the hormone + natural levels = total.
    Quote Originally Posted by Valdez
    In addition to above ^ the AHV3 WILL possibly make you read extremely high man. Just because the target hormone is DHT absolutely does NOT GUARANTEE that it will not convert to test. These different metabolites can convert to different things. Also, I'm not familiar with your clinic and how they test but my buddy at the station Total t levels were somewhere around 2600 on ahv3 and trt NOTHING else. His insurance canceled coverage.
    Quote Originally Posted by Valdez

    Lol no it does not ya jack ass! ; )

    Endogenous is in the body and exogenous is out of the body.

    Endogenous is something made in your body. Exogenous is something made outside.
    Quote Originally Posted by Valdez

    Women don't even have 0 endogenous test bud.
    Quote Originally Posted by Valdez

    people are prescribed TRT for a given low range. Depending on the clinic that can be anywhere below 550. When someone on trt with 550 gets a test cyp injection of 100 mg, they are not immediately at 0 and in a lot of patients that doesn't happen for quite some time, if ever. Which is one of the reasons they monitor your levels, to adjust for your endogenous testosterone to shut down, not just E2 etc...

    A PH cycle will very rarely shut anyone down to 0.

    <img src="http://anabolicminds.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=66 359"/>

    <img src="http://anabolicminds.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=66 360"/>

    Endogenous = body created - testosterone, insulin, melatonin, etc... Made in the body

    Exogenous = external creation - testosterone, insulin, etc... Synthetic derivatives, "bio identical hormones" (lab created), sometimes pulled from cadavers, bovine or other sources BUT still NOT made in YOUR body.

    I don't know where the misunderstanding is. Not being a dick, I hope you know me better than that by now man.
    Quote Originally Posted by Valdez

    Ok I think I see the problem... Scratch natural test, throw it out the window.

    Andro gel (no idea conversion rate dosages whatever) - 500 ng/dl

    Any Andro Series (again we DON'T know exact figures) - 600 ng/dl

    Total of the two - 1100 ng/dl

    = skewed results

    Dr. sees your levels as being high dials back your dose end result, ****ing you.

    Andro series products MAY increase your test. They most certainly have in other customers, I've witnessed it. Labs and everything we're talking +1900.

    SD more than likely won't bump your test levels but again I haven't really looked into SD like I have the DHEA metabolites.

    Not worth it, you're taking about setting yourself back months while figuring out what your dosages for TRT should be. Just cycle off prior.
    I said throw out natural test because you weren't grasping the concept... I was simplifying for you so that you could understand.

    Quote Originally Posted by Valdez

    You may want to get your estrogen levels checked as well, this shít came off real emotional. Later
    Quote Originally Posted by Valdez

    I posted the wrong ****? Lol! Go buy some DAA to help with trt ; )
    Quote Originally Posted by Valdez
    Dude, how old are you? Saying the adults are talking...? You're throwing a fit like my 4 year old.

    You forgot to add my other posts. What test has a way of deciphering in your body exogenous testosterone and endogenous testosterone? Until you are completely shut down, which again, does not happen immediately it is the total testosterone in your body that shows up on the blood test. Which again is another reason for varying dosages.

    Really? Just going to flame and call me an idiot? Good point. You're a joke dude. Enjoy Andropause...

    Also, google and find a clinic that offers a blood test that differentiates testosterone levels exo vs endo. Until then you just sound like an upset child.
    Quote Originally Posted by Valdez

    That's what I thought...

    You're still incorrect but at least this time you avoided using insults to try and prove yourself right.

    FYI HCG is what you're looking for. My captains wife runs a TRT clinic out here and that's what they have them on to avoid complete shut down.

    Oh and one of the firefighters that just came off after 4 years results were 236 ng/dl. Kinda puts a hole in your 0 logic, eh? That's after testosterone cypionate injections every week for 4 years and they hadn't incorporated the HCG protocol while he was on.
    Quote Originally Posted by Valdez
    You're welcome for all the advice provided
    Quote Originally Posted by Valdez

    Yea you're old... I got that in the other posts. Cool story.
    Quote Originally Posted by Valdez
    I'm done at this point you're just arguing to argue. Just like my girlfriend, again, check estrogen levels. Estrogen dominant individuals tend to be irrational and act out of emotion instead of logical thought.

    I answered because I genuinely wanted to help you. I witnessed AHV3 raise levels to 2600 when starting bloods (on trt) were 800. Feel free to ask HTS about it as I was in contact with him and Eric about it since I was astonished at the Andro series capabilities.

    Take them all dude before, during and after your bloods.

    Lol the bird is angry... Ever see a pea**** at the zoo? In comparison not far off. Both make noise but really have no follow through.

    Good luck bro!
    Quote Originally Posted by Valdez

    Alright dude a couple of things...

    1. The only reason I haven't Negged you to red for your flamboyant comments is because you are well respected here by many members, myself included. And because in all my time here I've never Negged anyone or even come close because I view it as a childish game.

    2. I've worked in healthcare for about 7 years now in the ER and on the ambulance. My fiancee to be is a nurse, her brother an ER physician and her sister a PA. My captains wife runs a TRT clinic and everyone of the guys I work with are on (minus the select few I coaxed off). Needless to say with that ^, my career and education (that I'm still doing), I'm pretty much immersed in healthcare and have been for almost ten years.

    3. Your non sense ramblings about buying me trt for dummies and a trt class at my community college, while providing entertainment value have done NOTHING to prove your correct.

    In conclusion, I offered you a way to prove yourself right and your rebuttal was more insults. The reason being is that you will not find a test that reads endogenous testosterone and exogenous testosterone as different values.

    What does that prove? Let me break it down for you since you clearly don't understand.

    During TRT you are given an exogenous testosterone source.

    Even if you have 17 ng/dl natural testosterone levels IT WILL BE FOUND IN YOUR BLOOD TEST

    Therefore, your TRT dosages + natural levels WILL show up as one value = TOTAL TESTOSTERONE LEVELS.

    Hormone clinics are constantly having to adjust TRT dosages to make up for declining testosterone levels due to shut down.

    For example:

    Jason goes in for TRT they see his natural levels @ 360 ng/dl

    The goal for a man his age would be base line 800-1200 so they start him with a low dose injection.

    He then goes back for his first blood test they see his total values are at 900. Perfect. So they have him cruising for a while at 900 until his next blood test. He has dropped to about 700, not terrible but not in the range they'd like to see him.

    Why did it drop if the TRT dosage stayed the same?

    NATURAL LEVELS DECLINING, at which point they adjust his dosage accommodating for the drop of TOTAL testosterone values.

    Call your local hormone clinic and ask. It will take 2 minutes of your day, but I'm sure you'd rather not, that way you don't have to admit defeat from someone younger than you.

    Feel free to continue your BS but until you have proof backing up (which you won't find any) your non sense, go kick your dog or hit the gym for stress relief. I've remained respectful stating facts this whole debate while you have done nothing to support your claims.
    ^^^My argument consistently remained the same except for taking out a variable due to it being to complex for you. My chick is getting frustrated with me replying to the "40 year old virgin" so I'm done. The successful people have things to do. Hold down the fort for me internet genius.

    Quote Originally Posted by HereToStudy
    I think my replies to different people are being interpreted by multiple people.

    What is said above is true. Endogeneous vs. exogeneous...It is all test in serum.
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    I had a very short run with TRT a little over a year ago and can offer a little feedback based on the experience. I had started with a TT level of 330ng/dl and was prescribed 1 tube of Testim (I think 5g) daily. 2 weeks later I was retested at 120ng/dl. The exogenous test caused shutdown rapidly (LH dropped to basically zero as well) and the replacement test/amount I absorbed wasn't enough to have me break even. In my case, it looked like complete shutdown occurred pretty fast and endogenous test wouldn't be a factor in future TT readings if I had continued.
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    Quote Originally Posted by breezy11 View Post
    I had a very short run with TRT over a year ago and can offer a little feedback based on the experience. I had started with a TT level of 330ng/dl and was prescribed 1 tube of Testim (I think 5g) daily. 2 weeks later I was retested at 120ng/dl. The exogenous test caused shutdown rapidly (LH dropped to basically zero as well) and the replacement test/amount I absorbed wasn't enough to have me break even. In my case, it looked like complete shutdown occurred pretty fast and endogenous test wouldn't be a factor in future TT readings if I had continued.
    I think its pretty immediate.....this is what worried me about them starting me on 2.5g of androgel for the first month to "assess tolerance" and for safety reasons. I'd rather they gave me a week of sample 2.5g gelpacks and then I could jump right on 5g which would be the lowest dose I figure could replace the low test reading, and then move on up from there by adjusting the dosage upwards after blood work every few months. I bet the past month my endogenous test dropped to nothing, and the 2.5g probably didn't even bring it up to 290+ (my initial reading was 290). So the first month is pretty much a wash, or a negative, but starting today i bumped to 5g and I'm doing my damndest to increase absorption....I bet I get way more than 10% with my protocol....we'll find out in a few months when I retest.....
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    I can't say for sure in everyone, but it was pretty immediate for me. Not a complete 0 or anything, but on two tests it was in the low 200s, which was below my initial 219,221,211. It was initially seeing my nuts shrink up that freaked me out and had me start taking hcg. Then I go sick of constant injections, so I stopped the hcg about 8 months ago. Then the weirdest thing happened about 4 months ago- my nuts came back. I have no explanation, as nothing changed. They just simply came back to where they were before. Needless to say, it makes me extremely happy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kisaj
    I can't say for sure in everyone, but it was pretty immediate for me. Not a complete 0 or anything, but on two tests it was in the low 200s, which was below my initial 219,221,211. It was initially seeing my nuts shrink up that freaked me out and had me start taking hcg. Then I go sick of constant injections, so I stopped the hcg about 8 months ago. Then the weirdest thing happened about 4 months ago- my nuts came back. I have no explanation, as nothing changed. They just simply came back to where they were before. Needless to say, it makes me extremely happy.
    Those bad boys ripened back up!
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    Valdez & Bird, da fuq? Though you guys were buddies... Natty stacks thread?

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    Interesting stuff in here..
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    I think my replies to different people are being interpreted by multiple people.

    What is said above is true. Endogeneous vs. exogeneous...It is all test in serum.
    Just inject.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kisaj View Post
    I can't say for sure in everyone, but it was pretty immediate for me. Not a complete 0 or anything, but on two tests it was in the low 200s, which was below my initial 219,221,211. It was initially seeing my nuts shrink up that freaked me out and had me start taking hcg. Then I go sick of constant injections, so I stopped the hcg about 8 months ago. Then the weirdest thing happened about 4 months ago- my nuts came back. I have no explanation, as nothing changed. They just simply came back to where they were before. Needless to say, it makes me extremely happy.
    You won the lottery, dating a super model, and won a championship and sit around 9% BF.....

    Therefor you testosterone naturally surged higher than ever,,,,,that is the only validation...

    Nice string of luck man!

    lol

    -Matt
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    Hey, some of us have it and some of us don't!

    But really, I know you only posted to give ****, but I don't care. I have no reason to tell any of you that I happened to notice my nuts are back, other than they are back. I realize it doesn't make a lot of sense, otherwise it wouldn't be worth noting. My doc even asked if I decided to start hcg on my own a few weeks back when I went in for an annual.
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    Glad you.guys are done sword fight for.GOds sakes ..lol

    Worse then 2 little.old.ladies with panties in a bunch...
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    No fighting going on over here. Just a simple comment about an observation I had.
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    I don't think Matt's comment was hostile, it was meant in humor (at least how I read it).
    Just inject.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kisaj View Post
    Hey, some of us have it and some of us don't!

    But really, I know you only posted to give ****, but I don't care. I have no reason to tell any of you that I happened to notice my nuts are back, other than they are back. I realize it doesn't make a lot of sense, otherwise it wouldn't be worth noting. My doc even asked if I decided to start hcg on my own a few weeks back when I went in for an annual.

    I was just playing...

    I believe you and think that its great you bounced back exceptionally well.

    -Matt
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattPorter

    I was just playing...

    I believe you and think that its great you bounced back exceptionally well.

    -Matt
    Matt or HTS, do you guys have any data on average reduction of estrogen/cortisol for erase? I'm picking some up tomorrow. Reason I'm asking is that my estradiol was high normal on my last set of labs. I understand everyones response will be different, but I'm just trying to get an idea of what to expect.

    Thanks in advance,
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    Quote Originally Posted by napalm

    Matt or HTS, do you guys have any data on average reduction of estrogen/cortisol for erase? I'm picking some up tomorrow. Reason I'm asking is that my estradiol was high normal on my last set of labs. I understand everyones response will be different, but I'm just trying to get an idea of what to expect.

    Thanks in advance,
    Great question; I'm interested in this too. What about using Triazole in place of Erase for this purpose? I have 3 new bottles that I haven't used yet!
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    Erase is much better in my opinion....erase pro being the best (OTC )....i stocked up on the stuff
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    Quote Originally Posted by WARBIRDWS6 View Post
    Erase is much better in my opinion....erase pro being the best (OTC )....i stocked up on the stuff
    Better because Erase is more effective at suppressing estrogen? I remember an interview on SHR in which he owner of Driven Sports said that early in-house testing indicated that Triazole suppressed an average of approxx 40% of estrogen. Anyone have similar stats/opinions on the average percentage one can expect Erase (or Erase Pro) to suppress estrogen?
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    Quote Originally Posted by napalm

    Matt or HTS, do you guys have any data on average reduction of estrogen/cortisol for erase? I'm picking some up tomorrow. Reason I'm asking is that my estradiol was high normal on my last set of labs. I understand everyones response will be different, but I'm just trying to get an idea of what to expect.

    Thanks in advance,
    I'm neither of the guys you referenced, but I had land done where my estradiol was 47pg/ml, then did 4 weeks @ 2 caps of erase ED and it went down to 11.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lboston

    I'm neither of the guys you referenced, but I had land done where my estradiol was 47pg/ml, then did 4 weeks @ 2 caps of erase ED and it went down to 11.
    *labs...d@mn auto type
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    Quote Originally Posted by lboston

    I'm neither of the guys you referenced, but I had land done where my estradiol was 47pg/ml, then did 4 weeks @ 2 caps of erase ED and it went down to 11.
    That's the kinda info I'm looking for, thanks!
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