I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
Your results have given me hope that my clomid treatment is going to help. I'm going back today to get my results for my 1-week bloods after being on clomid. Glad it is for sure working for someone!
For clarification, All the sups I'm taking have been consistent for the previous four months with the exception of erase and endosurge. I'll get bloods in a few weeks to see if there is any impact.
A very wice move would be to reduce clomid to 2 x 12.5 a week when u react so good... But that is just my opinion... Take it for what it is...
GAME ON! MOVAH FUKAZ!
I would recommend reducing your dosage as one poster suggested to 12.5mg 2x/week before adding more pharma crap and complexities and start really jerking around your hormones even more.
I've been on Clomid for about 6 months now.
I've suffered from Low T and ED for years....
Tried everything from Androderm to Androgel - which works great....
But unfortunately due to insurance issues Clomid was not only a better option financially but also beneficial in the fact that it helps your body make testosterone naturally therefore not shutting your system down like Androgel or Androderm would.
I've had labs done every 2 months as I was initially started on a very high dose (50mg).
I am now using 12.5 mg EOD.
Your labs look great - WOW - your total test is amazing. Mine will never get that high. Its the free test thats important though. And mine seems to be in the right place.
As for thyroid. I have thyroid disease in my family and have subclinical hyperthyroidism. It consists of a slightly low TSH nothing else (all the other thyroid hormones are normal). Endocrinologists do not treat this - as its not worth the hassle (the drug to raise the TSH would do more harm than good) and that's after seeing more than a few endocrinologist.
I think Clomid is a very good option for TRT. And although its not "officially TRT" all the studies done on it indicate it not only helps with PCT but also with people who have abused AAS and have had a total shutdown....
Going to pile on top of what the poster above said.
I truly think for people that are idiopathic secondary, a SERM is the best way to go. Nature is best.
I'm hoping androxal/enclomiphene is approved by the FDA and they work out any other legal issues they have. Long-term use of this drug, and many SERMS is well proven with very little/few side effects at lower dosages.
I've been testing Torem and now a combo of Torem/Clomid to see my response and doing lab work.
I haven't felt better in years having natural LH producing Test than any transdermal/injection and so forth over the past 5yrs going this method.
Great post showing the effectiveness of SERMs
Couldn't agree more.
Ok. Been a while since I posted. Tried to bring e2 down with OTC erase. Blood work showed little impact. Wasn't able to get levels below 75. Dr put me on arimidex .25mg e3d. Just got labs back. Have been on this dosing for six weeks along with continuing clomid 12.5mg m,w,f. I'm pretty pleased with both the labs and what it has done for me physically. Dropped five pounds and the mirror says majority of it left my midsection. My sexual function is unreal . I'm stronger and appear to be building lean mass much faster than before (I know it's been a short time but I've had several people close to me comment on this). Here's the labs:
Free test 33 (6.8-21.5)
Total test 1140 (348-1197)
E2 26.3 (7.6-42.6) *** goal was between 20-30.
As an aside, my total cholesterol went below 200 for the first time ever (first tested when I was ~24). Pretty happy with that.
Also, TSH went up to 1.45 from 1.2 with an increase from 100mcg to 112mcg. Any ideas on if arimidex played a part in this would be appreciated (Matrix!).
Going forward I am dropping clomid dosing to 12.5mg e3d, same as arimidex. Goal is to drop tt below 1000 as this is a long term therapy and from what I've read tt ~850 is optimal.
I hope these updates are helpful for people looking into this type of trt option. My Dr has put a number of patients on this since seeing how well I have responded. It's awesome to have a smart, open minded practitioner.
WOW - great results for being on 12.5mg EOD. I may try going that low as well depending on next blood results. For those that may be interested in the effects of chlomid on some people - I am copying a post from another thread in here. My results not quite as dramatic - and I am having more problems with estrogen / SHBG - but I am very glad I tried chlomid and increased endogenous testosterone rather than go directly for exogenous. Wish I had a doctor helping me but my naturopath has been very good / supportive and makes sure I keep getting tests. Am in Canada - TRT doctors here not the greatest and Chlomid is not used for this application it seems as it not an approved drug for TRT.
BELOW IS THE REPEAT POST - SORRY IF I SHOULD HAVE JUST LINKED TO IT BUT I DON'T HAVE ENOUGH POSTS TO BE ALLOWED HYPERLINKS
This is a long post - if you want the summary:
Look into Chlomid - seriously. If your balls and pituatary are still capable of working properly - Chlomid can dramatically raise testosterone levels with minimal side effects if the dose rate is kept low. Research seems to indicate it is safe for long term use at low dose rates.
I am a 53 yr old male - who had simlar problems. Low testosterone - did the full gamet of testing- no observable problems with LH FSH thyroid etc. I could write for hours about this - but spent about a year and a half trying many of the products sold on fitness websites to increase test (Tribulus, longjack, DAA, Fenugreek, Forskoli etc) with no substantial effect. I can post labs over several years if one is interested.
In late December 2012, I recieved some generic chlomid from an online pharmacy - the first two I tried never delivered - the third one did and has subsequently been very reliable. Generic Chlomid is cheaper to take than any of the supplements listed above. In just six weeks, my total, free and bioavailable testosterone went up by over 70 %, taking 25 mg chlomid every other day.
Here were my thoughts on the results ( copying this from another bulletin board I posted on)
1) Pituitary seems to be working as the chlomid drove up LH and FH
2) Balls seem to be working as Testosterone and Free Testosterone went up 70 %
3) Estrogen getting pretty high
4) Thyroid is OK - actually getting better as tests proceed (added iodized salt back into diet and taking thyroid glandular)
5) Sudden sharp drop in AM cortisol is disconcerting - wonder if it was side effect of chlomid
I increased the dose of chlomid to 25 mg every day - and retested in April. HEre is what I posted on other log. Big thing is my Testosterone was up to top of reference range and Bio-available had increased dramatically.
Just a brief update - been on Chlomid for over three months now. Somethings going very well - others need a bit of work yet. I have been avoiding adding an anti-aromatase but looks like I may not be able to get around it. Recent labs
Cortisol 688 (range 200- 690 nmol/L)
Way better than last test result - may have been an anomaly as is consistent with previous test from December.
Total Testosterone 28.3 (range 8.0 - 29.0 nmol/L) Well can't complain
Estradiol 184 (range 0 - 160 pmol/L ) This one I need to work on yet
Progesterone 3.7 (range 0 - 3.0 nmol/L)
Free Testosterone 451 (range 175 - 700 pmol/L) More than double the numbers I used to get
SHBG 60 (range 10 - 55 nmol/L) would love to see this down - but maybe because of high estrogen so anti-aromatase?
DHEA-S 8.4 (range 2.2 - 13.0 umol/L)
BioAvail Testosterone 9.2 (range 4.0 to 16.0) NICE- was below reference range in October
Both Bio Avail and Free Testosterone will of course improve if I can get SHBG down.
Here is a major problem - first time ever tested for Vit D and I take about 3000 IUs daily
Vitamin D 80.5 (range 80 - 200)
Maybe I am a poor absorber - have added a second source (pills in the morning - liquid Vit D in evening ) and taking 6-7000 IU and am going to see how it goes.
All in all - I am very pleased with being on Chlomid. I upped my dose in February from 25 mg EOD to 25 mg daily. I am going to cut back to 25 EOD again and see where I stabilize - figuring the lower dose rate will reduce side effects. Going to try some natural anti-aromatase first before trying other approaches.
I feel better - am more positive, good morning wood, can concentrate better and am seeing some body recomposition that is favorable. So far - the experiment for me has been a success - your mileage may vary. I figure for a 53 yr old guy to get his total T up to 800 with just a SERM is pretty good results.
The high estrogen numbers and fact I had hit the top of scale on Total T made me cut back the chlomid again - so since that time I have been taking 25 mg on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays. I have added in 2 pills daily of PES Erase to try to lower estrogen for the last 3-4 weeks. I feel great and have the best morning erections I have had for years - which is usually a good sign that testosterone and estrogen are in balance. I am going to see my doctor and get more bloodwork done in about 10 days.
There are a number of good studies online about Chlomid and long term use in Men for low testosterone - learn to use pubmed is well worth it. Anyways - here is info from one - Title says it all.
Clomiphene citrate is safe and effective for long-term management of hypogonadism.
Moskovic DJ, Katz DJ, Akhavan A, Park K, Mulhall JP.
Sexual & Reproductive Medicine Program, Urology Service, Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center, New York, NY, USA.
To assess the efficacy and safety of long-term clomiphene citrate (CC) therapy in symptomatic patients with hypogonadism (HG).
PATIENTS AND METHODS:
Serum T, oestradiol and luteinizing hormone (LH) were measured in patients who were treated with CC for over 12 months. Additionally, bone densitometry (BD) results were collected for all patients. Demographic, comorbidity, treatment and Androgen Deficiency in Aging Men (ADAM) score data were also recorded. Comparison was made between baseline and post-treatment variables, and multivariable analysis was conducted to define predictors of successful response to CC. The main outcome measures were predictors of response and long-term results with long-term CC therapy in hypogonadal patients.
The 46 patients (mean age 44 years) had baseline serum testosterone (T) levels of 228 ng/dL. Follow-up T levels were 612 ng/dL at 1 year, 562 ng/dL at 2 years, and 582 ng/dL at 3 years (P < 0.001). Mean femoral neck and lumbar spine BD scores improved significantly. ADAM scores (and responses) fell from a baseline of 7 to a nadir of 3 after 1 year. No adverse events were reported by any patients.
Clomiphene citrate is an effective long-term therapy for HG in appropriate patients. The drug raises T levels substantially in addition to improving other manifestations of HG such as osteopenia/osteoporosis and ADAM symptoms.
Good luck with the erase. i would guess you are going to need a real AI. I would get that taken care of quickly, and then see if you reduce the clomid dose and still keep LH in the top of the range.
I hope you have better luck than I did with erase. Once it failed to bring my e2 down I spent weeks looking for research on any non pharmaceutical options. Couldn't find anything. But .25mg of arimidex had me solid in a few days.
If it continues to work well, do you expect to take it indefinitely? Are you pretty certain that there have been no emotional effects at all? I ask because you said that you don't have problems with being whiney and whatnot, but maybe there are effects that are smaller but still real. And lastly, has your libido improved at all due to the higher testosterone?
Yeah - if all goes well I will plan to take indefinitely. I may try going off clomid for a few months to see if my body keeps up with a high level of testosterone production ( whether I have gotten the boys used to working overtime) but would stay on an anti-estrogen like Erase or Armidex or exemestane to keep estrogen low while doing so. I have had no negative effects that I can tell - if anything I feel more "on", more alert, and a tad more aggressive. I have not noticed any large changes in libido - but do notice erections are easier to come by - it doesn't take much to prompt one. I suspect that the Erase has not been enough to keep my estrogen as low as I would like it - I go in for lab tests on Wednesday morning and will update.
I plan to take until its no longer effective. It's such a low dose the risk of sides is just not there. People have taken doses way higher for long periods with no negatives. It has become a no brainier for me. To answer the other concern, I've never been overly emotional or been "whiney" outside of my normal self. I'm coming up on a year and it has made a tremendous difference in my life. My appearance, stamina, energy and mood have all been greatly improved.
This is an excellent thread. Props to the OP for starting and keeping it relatively updated.
Anyone have any idea how prevalent Clomid is as an alternative to traditional TRT?