Clomid For Men With Low Testosterone by Jeffrey Dach MD

[pmgamer18]

I got this this morning in my Enews letter.
There is a lot of talk accross the forums about the use of Clomid I found this to be a great read it is to long to cut and paste.
Jeffrey Dach MD Bio-Identical Hormone Blog: Clomid For Men With Low Testosterone by Jeffrey Dach MD

 

[The Matrix]

I got this this morning in my Enews letter.
There is a lot of talk accross the forums about the use of Clomid I found this to be a great read it is to long to cut and paste.
Jeffrey Dach MD Bio-Identical Hormone Blog: Clomid For Men With Low Testosterone by Jeffrey Dach MD

Been using modified version of this approach for several.years with drs.

 

[vkg1]

Very interesting, especially with all the additional references/included papers.

There's no mention of some of the sides I've heard of for SERMS, however. As I understand things, SERMs can cause low libido, depression, strange emotions (eg crying during movies). Can anyone explain why exactly Clomid is more appropriate for this use than an AI? My impression is that Clomid induces higher T production by the same basic mechanism, however with the side effect of a lot more high-estrogen symptoms. I'm wondering what I'm missing.

 

[v4lu3s]

The symptoms you describe are common with broscience doses of 50-150mg a day
AIs dont increase test or produce it.

 

[Sketch2000]

Great article. Thanks for sharing this bro. I'm on Clomid 25mg daily as we speak.

 

[pmgamer18]

Your welcome I have about 4 guys on this but they are doing 12.5 mgs EOD some doing it everyday at the Forum I co mod at and they are doing great no sides.

Great article. Thanks for sharing this bro. I'm on Clomid 25mg daily as we speak.

 

[The Matrix]

Your welcome I have about 4 guys on this but they are doing 12.5 mgs EOD some doing it everyday at the Forum I co mod at and they are doing great no sides.

I have drs I have been helping for years with patients on this for several years no issues. We had to address other issues along the way to get the full benefits of the clomid other then that many guys are dropping off TRT and running on their own levels. Taking a 1/4 of a pill m,w,f is alot better then jabbing your self with a needle or slapping on andro - goo

 

[pmgamer18]

Yes I know but I am not ready to try this at this stage of the game things are working good and my gut is better. Thanks to you I am feeling dam good today.

I have drs I have been helping for years with patients on this for several years no issues. We had to address other issues along the way to get the full benefits of the clomid other then that many guys are dropping off TRT and running on their own levels. Taking a 1/4 of a pill m,w,f is alot better then jabbing your self with a needle or slapping on andro - goo

 

[The Matrix]

Yes I know but I am not ready to try this at this stage of the game things are working good and my gut is better. Thanks to you I am feeling dam good today.

Probiotics working like a charm? Which all those other people on certain forums (COUGH COUGH) who are chasing hormones levels said where a bunch of hug wash. May be one day they will see the light or maybe ...not..

 

[pmgamer18]

Well I don't feel fixing my gut is going to help with my hormones I am secondary yet I am sleeping much better feel much better in the morning not going #2 four times in the first hour I am up. Dam Antibody meds did this to me.

Probiotics working like a charm? Which all those other people on certain forums (COUGH COUGH) who are chasing hormones levels said where a bunch of hug wash. May be one day they will see the light or maybe ...not..

 

[superbeast668]

reps. great stuff bro.

 

[fanzdslpwr1]

I wonder if DAA caps would have similar effect as clomid?

 

[Royd The Noyd]

Been saying this on my blog this year as well...and I didnt even need a PHD to figure it out.

 

[texastea]

Been saying this on my blog this year as well...and I didnt even need a PHD to figure it out.

You didn't quote the message you were replying to; what have you been saying on your blog?

 

[The Matrix]

Well I don't feel fixing my gut is going to help with my hormones I am secondary yet I am sleeping much better feel much better in the morning not going #2 four times in the first hour I am up. Dam Antibody meds did this to me.

Younger guys i.am.getting a.huge response.from.balancing gi tract in.response to.getting them.to.restart. People.over 40 unless.rare.cases will.not.be as fortunate. Although as you are seeing how probiotics do.much more then help.gi tract. Note your e2 levels.may also.come down as well since bad bacteria drive.improper.estrogen metabolism .

 

[pmgamer18]

As for E2 I pray your right I think my gut has been messed up a long time but it's hard to tell when I had heartburn it turned out to be blockages to my heart and I needed heart bypass surgery. I still need one half a Aromasin 2x's / day. I will be done with the 200 billion Probiotics this Wed. and then going on the 50 billion Probiotics the next day.

I don't think this is a fast fix I can see things getting better but is slow so I hope my E2 gets better and I need to keep an eye on my Iron levels they might get better and I might not need Iron pills.

Younger guys i.am.getting a.huge response.from.balancing gi tract in.response to.getting them.to.restart. People.over 40 unless.rare.cases will.not.be as fortunate. Although as you are seeing how probiotics do.much more then help.gi tract. Note your e2 levels.may also.come down as well since bad bacteria drive.improper.estrogen metabolism .

 

[The Matrix]

As for E2 I pray your right I think my gut has been messed up a long time but it's hard to tell when I had heartburn it turned out to be blockages to my heart and I needed heart bypass surgery. I still need one half a Aromasin 2x's / day. I will be done with the 200 billion Probiotics this Wed. and then going on the 50 billion Probiotics the next day.

I don't think this is a fast fix I can see things getting better but is slow so I hope my E2 gets better and I need to keep an eye on my Iron levels they might get better and I might not need Iron pills.

increasing GI absorption may help ferritin levels. People need to wake up and stop looking at hormones and look at the over all picture.

 

[53AndAging]

If I understand this correctly, when one begins HRT your system can stop producing on it's own. Would it not then make sense to use Clomid to keep your system producing what it can for as long as it can?

 

[The Matrix]

If I understand this correctly, when one begins HRT your system can stop producing on it's own. Would it not then make sense to use Clomid to keep your system producing what it can for as long as it can?

at 53 go with TRT do not screw around with clomid.

 

[pmgamer18]

And if your worried about your testis not working test your Testosterone levels you might find out they are not working anyway. Men that are not Primary meaning there testis don't work take HCG with TRT to keep there testis working.

at 53 go with TRT do not screw around with clomid.

 

[The Matrix]

And if your worried about your testis not working test your Testosterone levels you might find out they are not working anyway. Men that are not Primary meaning there testis don't work take HCG with TRT to keep there testis working.

But be forewarned of possible huge fluctuations in e2. Why I recommend Dr start off 100 ius 2 times a week then adjust up ward.
Getting closer to unlocking issue with finasteride. Working on multiple cases now making progress slow but getting better.

 

[zeroshens]

Article confirms my own research. I use Aromasin and torem to help keep me happy.

Switched to torem when nolvadex and clomid seemed to have very little effect on me. Let's just say that with torem...you cAn definitely tell it is working! Lol

 

[53AndAging]

thank you for your frankness.

 

[DGeez]

Hmmm, this is interesting. I had a plan to come off TRT with my endo this summer using clomid and HCG. However, I lost my insurance and can't afford too now. I am 26 and have been on TRT for about 1.5yrs. My levels were in the 200's when I started. Currently taking:

Test Cyp: 170mg/wk
Arimidex: 1mg/eod (As of lately. .5mg/eod doesn't seem to help me at all. I had gyno surgery last year and am very sensitive to E2 fluctuations)

I also have about 30,000ius of HCG waiting to be used. I am a little hesitant to come off using an internet protocol because I can't afford to see the doc if I need to. let alone sperm tests and blood tests. I would like to come off so I can have kids. That is the only reason why I want too, but there is no hurry to do that currently. I am also concerned about the strength and muscle loss I will experience when coming off. Thanks for the post. I am really liking this forum so far.

 

[53AndAging]

My current physician wants me back in 30 days for retesting. The website has definitely got me thinking differently. I plan on having testing done at labcorp as mentioned in the anabolic forum. Those results will then be taken to my next appt with my GP. I'm quite sure our conversation the next time around will be quite different. If interested I can post results once they are obtained.

 

[fanzdslpwr1]

what is your sperm count while on 170mg a week?

 

[DGeez]

I got it tested while around 150mg/wk after being on for about a year. They said it was "undetectable." I don't know if it's even possible to be producing nothing, but i'm pretty close to that. I'm sure 170mg/wk is not helping matters.

 

[DGeez]

My GF hasn't been taking birth control for over 6mo now....nothing.

 

[Royd The Noyd]

Hmmm, this is interesting. I had a plan to come off TRT with my endo this summer using clomid and HCG. However, I lost my insurance and can't afford too now. I am 26 and have been on TRT for about 1.5yrs. My levels were in the 200's when I started. Currently taking:

Test Cyp: 170mg/wk
Arimidex: 1mg/eod (As of lately. .5mg/eod doesn't seem to help me at all. I had gyno surgery last year and am very sensitive to E2 fluctuations)

I also have about 30,000ius of HCG waiting to be used. I am a little hesitant to come off using an internet protocol because I can't afford to see the doc if I need to. let alone sperm tests and blood tests. I would like to come off so I can have kids. That is the only reason why I want too, but there is no hurry to do that currently. I am also concerned about the strength and muscle loss I will experience when coming off. Thanks for the post. I am really liking this forum so far.

There are clomiphene protocols published in legitimate journals. I wouldn't call them Internet protocols.

 

[lboston]

I got it tested while around 150mg/wk after being on for about a year. They said it was "undetectable." I don't know if it's even possible to be producing nothing, but i'm pretty close to that. I'm sure 170mg/wk is not helping matters.

Why such a high dose of test?

 

[DGeez]

There are clomiphene protocols published in legitimate journals. I wouldn't call them Internet protocols.

You are correct. I've seen this idea before, and my doc was wanting to do something similar. I just meant I couldn't monitor myself correctly if I tried it because of my lack of insurance.

 

[DGeez]

Why such a high dose of test?

I didn't think that was very high. I have seen 200mg/wk being very common these days. Do I need 170mg/wk? No. But I do prefer it over less! I have tested slightly above the high end of normal when I got my last BW. Either way, when I got my sperm tested we were still trying to find a good dose of Cyp. I started with Testim cream. Even before we settled on this dose, my sperm level was still "undetectable."

 

[pmgamer18]

When you need this much / week try doing 80 mgs E3D it works much better keeps you more level and helps keep Estraidol levels down. Dr. Shippen does this way to his self.

I didn't think that was very high. I have seen 200mg/wk being very common these days. Do I need 170mg/wk? No. But I do prefer it over less! I have tested slightly above the high end of normal when I got my last BW. Either way, when I got my sperm tested we were still trying to find a good dose of Cyp. I started with Testim cream. Even before we settled on this dose, my sperm level was still "undetectable."

 

[SLW2]

Thanks for sharing the link OP.

 

[kisaj]

That seems like a lot of poking. I like the 125 once a week and then forget about it. If I had to be tapping myself every 3 days with a needle to stay normal, I would look at other alternatives for sure. My endo wants to experiment with me and different levels of clomid after taking me off TRT for 3-4 weeks and I just feel like telling him to F off. I am in such a better place than I have been in probably 5-6 years and life just gets better. Do I want to be on something for the rest of my life- not really. Am I willing to if it is a minor inconvenience and makes me feel like I do- HELL YES.

 

[DGeez]

I just started with 2x's a week 80mg shots last week. Thx for the tip

 

[fanzdslpwr1]

I have doing it every Mon and Thurs and like it better. its not really sticking yourself if you are using a insulin syringe. its just a prick. I haven't used any aniestrogens in months and haven't needed them

 

[kisaj]

I've tried the insulin route and it just takes too long to pull and inject with that tiny needle for my taste. If it worked well, I would definitely do that.

 

[The Matrix]

I've tried the insulin route and it just takes too long to pull and inject with that tiny needle for my taste. If it worked well, I would definitely do that.

Draw with big one shoot with small one whole process take about a minute. 170 mgs is more then.i.like.to.see majority of recommendations i give to Drs is 40 mgs 2 times a week then i start back filing all the other issues commonly.over looked in trt. Dr and their patients have been very pleased with results. This is the future of medicine. I m being introduced to the owner of the human genome project in a few weeks. Should be interesting.

 

[kisaj]

Really? I guess I never even looked to see that the needle removes from an insulin syringe and the pull is the part I could not wait for. Hell, that thing is nothing, so I am going to check it out.

I do great on 125ml a week and have little fluctuation. I wonder if I would do even better on 60 twice a week.

 

[The Matrix]

Really? I guess I never even looked to see that the needle removes from an insulin syringe and the pull is the part I could not wait for. Hell, that thing is nothing, so I am going to check it out.

I do great on 125ml a week and have little fluctuation. I wonder if I would do even better on 60 twice a week.

Pull the plunger lol

 

[Whacked]

MAtrix: Would/Could this also be a"typical" course/regime for someone on self prescribed TRT for 5 years who wants to get OFF the TRT?

Clomid and and AI if warranted?

I am so sick of the injections I want to scream

Been using modified version of this approach for several.years with drs.

 

[pmgamer18]

Doing 125 mgs of T shots / week is fine it's when you need more like 150 to 200 mgs / week this is when you should break it up into more shots using less T / shot / week. Men do well when they need 150 mgs / week doing the shot 75 mgs 2x's / week. This keeps your Estradiol levels down from doing one big dose shot / week. And you feel more level with less of a spike in Estradiol.

Men that need 200 mgs / week would do much better shooting 80 mgs E3D for the same reasion.

And you don't need to use them big needles like 25g x 1" lg. men are finding they can shoot subQ using a smaller needle doing the shot into there belly fat. Dr. Shippen and Dr. John have found doing subQ into fat you don't get the spike in your T levels and it helps to slow down Estraidol levels.

I use a 27g 1ml. x 1/2" lg. needle and I was shooting into my thich for many yrs. I have been doing subQ shot E3D now for 9 months and I feel much better and my labs are the same except Estradiol levels are lower.

When you go to take the T oil out of the vial it will come out slow so I just pull down on the plunger all the way and hold it until I get my dose. And when you do your shot you need it to go slow anyway.

That seems like a lot of poking. I like the 125 once a week and then forget about it. If I had to be tapping myself every 3 days with a needle to stay normal, I would look at other alternatives for sure. My endo wants to experiment with me and different levels of clomid after taking me off TRT for 3-4 weeks and I just feel like telling him to F off. I am in such a better place than I have been in probably 5-6 years and life just gets better. Do I want to be on something for the rest of my life- not really. Am I willing to if it is a minor inconvenience and makes me feel like I do- HELL YES.

 

[The Matrix]

MAtrix: Would/Could this also be a"typical" course/regime for someone on self prescribed TRT for 5 years who wants to get OFF the TRT?

Clomid and and AI if warranted?

I am so sick of the injections I want to scream

Yes I have gotten many guys off TRT. It is not an easy task, but the end result is well worth it. The whole process takes about 4 months to prep the body to come off. If I get the balls up I have been asked to start lecturining to Dr's about the process by which I have used in order to do this or to transition people over to clomid. Several people have failed clomid challenge, but with further investigation, I was able to get them to respond. Some of the likely reasons where ones not many Dr's would have even looked for . Shoot me a pm

 

[DGeez]

Doing 125 mgs of T shots / week is fine it's when you need more like 150 to 200 mgs / week this is when you should break it up into more shots using less T / shot / week. Men do well when they need 150 mgs / week doing the shot 75 mgs 2x's / week. This keeps your Estradiol levels down from doing one big dose shot / week. And you feel more level with less of a spike in Estradiol.

Men that need 200 mgs / week would do much better shooting 80 mgs E3D for the same reasion.

And you don't need to use them big needles like 25g x 1" lg. men are finding they can shoot subQ using a smaller needle doing the shot into there belly fat. Dr. Shippen and Dr. John have found doing subQ into fat you don't get the spike in your T levels and it helps to slow down Estraidol levels.

I use a 27g 1ml. x 1/2" lg. needle and I was shooting into my thich for many yrs. I have been doing subQ shot E3D now for 9 months and I feel much better and my labs are the same except Estradiol levels are lower.

When you go to take the T oil out of the vial it will come out slow so I just pull down on the plunger all the way and hold it until I get my dose. And when you do your shot you need it to go slow anyway.

This is great info! I didn't know you could do sub q injects!!! thank you!