new member!... worried about T level.

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    Cool new member!... worried about T level.


    Hi folks, newcomer to the site..

    bit about me..

    Lifted weights in highschool when I was like 15, only lifted for 6 months but did manage to put on some good size to my 5'8 frame body,.. then I found boxing as my new passion, lost weight.. Did the whole amateurs routine from about 16 to 17, so not very longterm, then I got back into lifting weights (went through that stupid phase wear I wanted to look good as well as compete in a sport lol)

    when I was 18 I went back to boxing, and carried on with that in the ams until I was 19, then I completely fell off the bandwagon With exercise, and inbetween studies I was hanging around with wasters, and just gettin ****faced on the weekend.

    By the time I was 21 suffering a case of misdirection in life, got myself back on track, started training again, but more athletic training, functional training I guess (whatever that encompasses these days).. But wasnt competing in anything and was just concentrating on getting my degree..

    training I was doing at this point was similar to "never gymless" (ross enamait) style, and I was about 160 with 10% bf..
    nothing special, but got my compliments. I was subconsiously trying to gain weight while keeping what athletic qualitys I had however,
    and although im sure a squat rack and some compound lifts wouldnt have broke the bank!, I was addicted to the low tech mentality at the time, so I ended up getting pretty strong, but only relative to my bodyweight, with big focus on anerobic threshold.

    by now I noticed I had gotten taller since my teenage years.. I wasnt the 5'8 weightlifter, or the 5'9 amateur boxer anymore, and my full height is nearly 5'11
    which got me thinking I was underweight at 160.. I think my caloric intake was about 2600.., and I accepted my low weight as being a product of my small bone mass
    (6.5" wrists in my case), but ive got one of those bodys where my wrists are tiny, but my torso and other body parts are not so narrow and actually more medium frame.. Its wierd for me cus with the style of training I had been doing up to that point it created a kind of ecto/meso illusion..
    think small wrists, huge delts, broad chest, and shoulders, stupid 13.5" biceps that look big to average joe, but seem to not fit my upper/mid sec..

    yea im a freak lol. Anyway thats not too much the important part (least not right now),
    eventually I stopped all physical activity again.. This time due to a family grievance which sent me on a bit of a downward spiral..
    ill spare the details on that one.. But im "dealing with it"..

    Now I got a blood test for t levels, after doing some research as I felt my testosterone had plummeted.. I was 145ibs (still am right now)
    people have been telling me I look like ****, like Im on meths or something.. (cant be good)

    Ive been depressed all the time, isolating myself, the whole nine yards...

    I always felt however that I was underweight or rather using training to maintain a weight that an out of shape person can easily maintain..

    Its frustrating and perhaps a lil self defeating, but I see it like this, if my t levels were low, but im using training as my only counterbalance to that, and maybe I have to work twice as hard to be at a weight that nature intended for me then something is seriously wrong.

    now granted many of you might say I should just incorporate more bodybuilding style training (or at least some compound lifts!) to increase weight, but I got my test "i did ask for free t levels and total t levels btw", but im in the uk, and the nhs is shoddy, plain and simple. Anyways ill give you my results

    serum testosterone
    (SCL) normal_satisfactory. 21.5nmol/L. (11_40)

    Serum TSH level
    (SCL) normal satisfactory. 1.96mu/L. (0.3_5.0)

    Now the bottom one taken was to see if I had diabetes, so idk how much crossover there is.
    im guessing the serum tesosterone test was not the free t levels like I asked for?? And assume its the total t level..
    the gp's I have spoken with simply disregard my terminoglogy like its the stuff of superstition.

    It says here that the sample showed no sign of haemolysis, icterus or lipaemia (no clue what these are)

    I think the (11_40) bit on the serum t result is the age range although I cant be sure..
    if so then jesus christ how the hell do they figure they can generalise 11 tp 40 yr olds!

    From what ive read the nmol number can be converted into another unit "measured in hundres" but I cant remember what its called..
    but apparently 800 to 1000, with over 12000 being considered too high, the 800 to 1000 being ideal for optimum health, muscle growth, and performance all combined.. Well I just converted my nmol of 21.5 and it translates to 617.. For a 23 year old that is pretty low/under!

    im still at 145ibs, and the reason I havent got back into training is I feel the 160 I was when active, should be my normal weight! Not training weight..
    granted I was doing a lot of anaerobic cardio stuff, with my my strength training, but that like saying Im at weight handicap/deficiency of over a "stone" due to low t levels! I.e. Should be 175 when training with intensity, not 160, should be 160 when sedentary not 145, im not saying that is the case "but it feels that way to me", which to which many of you might think is a stupid analogy, and I ought to just train and make myself reach optimal t levels through training.. Butt how much does exercise actually raise t levels??
    Surely not by much if theres a hormonal deficiency!..

    We all know of bodybuilders who have had to go through hrt afterall, it happens..
    and if ive got to get to an optimal range, wouldnt it make sense that I should want to be in the "upper" of that range for optimal growth (regardless of training style) and not the lower.. Basically what im saying is even if I am around 800 t levels when training, thats like poor maintenance and I should perhaps be in upper 1000's if my hormones werent in a sad state..

    im worried of getting back into training taking a blood test and finding im still under for my age..
    id rather put it right via hrt, anabolics, whatever it takes "if there is a way to do son safely" and with permanent results, I certainly wouldnt want to be on hrt on and off for the rest of my life, steroids im not so sure either, but then I dont have enough knowledge about such things..

    "hence why I am here"

    For hrt I know it would take some serious convincing of one of the docs in this area to agree to it, and im more worried abouut side effects if im being brutally honest :/

    as for whether anabols would help Idk, "but I have considered it" :/

    firstly can someone please help me establish whether or not I am actually under for my age (23), and what the numbers mean? I am exhibiting symptoms like soft erections, lack of interest in opposite sex, im ashamed to admit but no doctor seems to give a crap unless you out and out lie by saying "i cant even get an erection", well in many cases like my self as example, you can still get them but they are pretty soft (not even full length)...

    Have I just been reading too much BS.. About what levels are optimum and should I just get back into exercise and hope for the best..? I think I am probs under, but I lack "real knowledge on the issue", and that my t levels should be fixed even before I start training again, in the hope of reaping the benefits that nature intended if that makes sense..


    ill stop here as im ranting..

    anyways if anyone on this site can help me with this it would mean the world as its affecting the way I think about training, hence why I havent even started again yet, cus I want this hormonal issue sorted first. So I welcome any and all thoughts as im pretty damn worried about this..

    thanks.
    Last edited by mumbles12; 05-27-2012 at 01:45 PM. Reason: terrible spelling

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    Quote Originally Posted by mumbles12
    Hi folks, newcomer to the site..

    bit about me..

    Lifted weights in highschool when I was like 15, only lifted for 6 months but did manage to put on some good size to my 5'8 frame body,.. then I found boxing as my new passion, lost weight.. Did the whole amateurs routine from about 16 to 17, so not very longterm, then I got back into lifting weights (went through that stupid phase wear I wanted to look good as well as compete in a sport lol)

    when I was 18 I went back to boxing, and carried on with that in the ams until I was 19, then I completely fell off the bandwagon With exercise, and inbetween studies I was hanging around with wasters, and just gettin ****faced on the weekend.

    By the time I was 21 suffering a case of misdirection in life, got myself back on track, started training again, but more athletic training, functional training I guess (whatever that encompasses these days).. But wasnt competing in anything and was just concentrating on getting my degree..

    training I was doing at this point was similar to "never gymless" (ross enamait) style, and I was about 160 with 10% bf..
    nothing special, but got my compliments. I was subconsiously trying to gain weight while keeping what athletic qualitys I had however,
    and although im sure a squat rack and some compound lifts wouldnt have broke the bank!, I was addicted to the low tech mentality at the time, so I ended up getting pretty strong, but only relative to my bodyweight, with big focus on anerobic threshold.

    by now I noticed I had gotten taller since my teenage years.. I wasnt the 5'8 weightlifter, or the 5'9 amateur boxer anymore, and my full height is nearly 5'11
    which got me thinking I was underweight at 160.. I think my caloric intake was about 2600.., and I accepted my low weight as being a product of my small bone mass
    (6.5" wrists in my case), but ive got one of those bodys where my wrists are tiny, but my torso and other body parts are not so narrow and actually more medium frame.. Its wierd for me cus with the style of training I had been doing up to that point it created a kind of ecto/meso illusion..
    think small wrists, huge delts, broad chest, and shoulders, stupid 13.5" biceps that look big to average joe, but seem to not fit my upper/mid sec..

    yea im a freak lol. Anyway thats not too much the important part (least not right now),
    eventually I stopped all physical activity again.. This time due to a family grievance which sent me on a bit of a downward spiral..
    ill spare the details on that one.. But im "dealing with it"..

    Now I got a blood test for t levels, after doing some research as I felt my testosterone had plummeted.. I was 145ibs (still am right now)
    people have been telling me I look like ****, like Im on meths or something.. (cant be good)

    Ive been depressed all the time, isolating myself, the whole nine yards...

    I always felt however that I was underweight or rather using training to maintain a weight that an out of shape person can easily maintain..

    Its frustrating and perhaps a lil self defeating, but I see it like this, if my t levels were low, but im using training as my only counterbalance to that, and maybe I have to work twice as hard to be at a weight that nature intended for me then something is seriously wrong.

    now granted many of you might say I should just incorporate more bodybuilding style training (or at least some compound lifts!) to increase weight, but I got my test "i did ask for free t levels and total t levels btw", but im in the uk, and the nhs is shoddy, plain and simple. Anyways ill give you my results

    serum testosterone
    (SCL) normal_satisfactory. 21.5nmol/L. (11_40)

    Serum TSH level
    (SCL) normal satisfactory. 1.96mu/L. (0.3_5.0)

    Now the bottom one taken was to see if I had diabetes, so idk how much crossover there is.
    im guessing the serum tesosterone test was not the free t levels like I asked for?? And assume its the total t level..
    the gp's I have spoken with simply disregard my terminoglogy like its the stuff of superstition.

    It says here that the sample showed no sign of haemolysis, icterus or lipaemia (no clue what these are)

    I think the (11_40) bit on the serum t result is the age range although I cant be sure..
    if so then jesus christ how the hell do they figure they can generalise 11 tp 40 yr olds!

    From what ive read the nmol number can be converted into another unit "measured in hundres" but I cant remember what its called..
    but apparently 800 to 1000, with over 12000 being considered too high, the 800 to 1000 being ideal for optimum health, muscle growth, and performance all combined.. Well I just converted my nmol of 21.5 and it translates to 617.. For a 23 year old that is pretty low/under!

    im still at 145ibs, and the reason I havent got back into training is I feel the 160 I was when active, should be my normal weight! Not training weight..
    granted I was doing a lot of anaerobic cardio stuff, with my my strength training, but that like saying Im at weight handicap/deficiency of over a "stone" due to low t levels! I.e. Should be 175 when training with intensity, not 160, should be 160 when sedentary not 145, im not saying that is the case "but it feels that way to me", which to which many of you might think is a stupid analogy, and I ought to just train and make myself reach optimal t levels through training.. Butt how much does exercise actually raise t levels??
    Surely not by much if theres a hormonal deficiency!..

    We all know of bodybuilders who have had to go through hrt afterall, it happens..
    and if ive got to get to an optimal range, wouldnt it make sense that I should want to be in the "upper" of that range for optimal growth (regardless of training style) and not the lower.. Basically what im saying is even if I am around 800 t levels when training, thats like poor maintenance and I should perhaps be in upper 1000's if my hormones werent in a sad state..

    im worried of getting back into training taking a blood test and finding im still under for my age..
    id rather put it right via hrt, anabolics, whatever it takes "if there is a way to do son safely" and with permanent results, I certainly wouldnt want to be on hrt on and off for the rest of my life, steroids im not so sure either, but then I dont have enough knowledge about such things..

    "hence why I am here"

    For hrt I know it would take some serious convincing of one of the docs in this area to agree to it, and im more worried abouut side effects if im being brutally honest :/

    as for whether anabols would help Idk, "but I have considered it" :/

    firstly can someone please help me establish whether or not I am actually under for my age (23), and what the numbers mean? I am exhibiting symptoms like soft erections, lack of interest in opposite sex, im ashamed to admit but no doctor seems to give a crap unless you out and out lie by saying "i cant even get an erection", well in many cases like my self as example, you can still get them but they are pretty soft (not even full length)...

    Have I just been reading too much BS.. About what levels are optimum and should I just get back into exercise and hope for the best..? I think I am probs under, but I lack "real knowledge on the issue", and that my t levels should be fixed even before I start training again, in the hope of reaping the benefits that nature intended if that makes sense..

    ill stop here as im ranting..

    anyways if anyone on this site can help me with this it would mean the world as its affecting the way I think about training, hence why I havent even started again yet, cus I want this hormonal issue sorted first. So I welcome any and all thoughts as im pretty damn worried about this..

    thanks.
    Been.reading too.much bs from.uneducated.people. Its.not.the.total.testosterone number by how your body uses it. If you have other things out.of balance then the body can not.use testosterone properly. Its not.always hormones.which.is the problem, but.other factors which complement it
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    Ok thanks for the heads up,

    what do I need to do then? I mean its not like my doc is gonna agree to a bunch of hormone tests.. I see what you mean about it not being total t levels, "but thats why I asked for free t levels to be checked". Which they lied to me about checking..

    I dont know what to do at this point...
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    Quote Originally Posted by mumbles12 View Post
    Ok thanks for the heads up,

    what do I need to do then? I mean its not like my doc is gonna agree to a bunch of hormone tests.. I see what you mean about it not being total t levels, "but thats why I asked for free t levels to be checked". Which they lied to me about checking..

    I dont know what to do at this point...
    Find a new Dr I am trying to find an open minded one over in UK, but no luck. Sad guys have to suffer over there. One thing is you need to isolate and fix what is the most logical first then branch out from there.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    "Great"!
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    Quote Originally Posted by mumbles12 View Post
    "Great"!

    so im stuck like this then basically, Im sick of people telling me I look like a methodone addict, while doctors say I look fine.. I cant take much more of this ****, its getting to the point Im afraid to step foot outside the house because im embarrassed of how I look, working out doesnt help because my wrists look like I had rickets as a child, which I have no way of even knowing if I did.. Im 24 this august.. My elbows popped out of placw, tried to get a scan for osteoporosis around the time I got my blood test, those results were years ago btw.. My total t level might be even lower know because I look really ****ing ill, and people in my family think its all in my head, its bull****, there just used to what I look like, and there not exactly role models..

    im ****ing sick of this ****. I know I sound like an impatient, but ive been trying to sort this for a few years and nothing gets done cus its always more *******s to deal with, more refferals that I cant get and am denied, more doctors telling me its my mind and not me physically.. Of course thats why my bones curve inwards, and I cant get a ****ing erection unless its first thing in the morning and even then its only a semi..

    its not me whos neglecting this, its the bastards I have to go to in order to get things put right, they simply "dont give a ****"
    ive changed medical practise twice already, my healths just going from **** to worse, im isolating myself from everyone that I can get away with keeping away from,.. Ive ditched friends ive known for 8 years because of their comments on how I look, they telling me im looking like gollum, im wasting my life trying to sort this out, "wasting", ive ****ing had enough, im ready knife the living **** out of the next evil eyed one eyebrowed doctor that disregards what is happening to me...

    ****ing hate this..
    On a better note the body has an amazing ability to recovery when given the proper nutrients as well as isolateing the cause. I can already see the chain of events unfolding typical with blokes in the Uk I have helped in the past.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Matrix View Post
    On a better note the body has an amazing ability to recovery when given the proper nutrients as well as isolateing the cause. I can already see the chain of events unfolding typical with blokes in the Uk I have helped in the past.
    By proper nutrients you mean specific foods that may address the problem whatever it be?? Or is that a more generic term for just eating healthy.

    As for isolating the cause.. Tut* sounds pathetic but id be chuffed to find that its just one problem, instead of feeling I may have osteomalacia (curved forearms/bones), low t levels, and diabetes even though I had that test already and I still dont know wtf the test results mean, or if its even significant in determining if I actually have diabetes (type1 or type2)..

    when I wrote that last post I was welling up, sitting at a dinner table at a carvery place with my dissapointed parents that I hardly ever see, thinking to myself is my body even pulling the nutrients from this meat?? Is there any point me eating it?? I get so wound up because its only my family to who I appear to be in normal working health, either they have a seriously hardcore denial mechanism working for them in their lives, or they simply accept me for who I am to the point I could just straight uphit up the crack pipe at the dinner table and noone would bat an eyelid lol (jk).

    no but srsly I was not in a good frame of mind "At all" several hours ago.. And im not much better now.. These android phones suck **** too, just thought id point that out..
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    Quote Originally Posted by mumbles12

    By proper nutrients you mean specific foods that may address the problem whatever it be?? Or is that a more generic term for just eating healthy.

    As for isolating the cause.. Tut* sounds pathetic but id be chuffed to find that its just one problem, instead of feeling I may have osteomalacia (curved forearms/bones), low t levels, and diabetes even though I had that test already and I still dont know wtf the test results mean, or if its even significant in determining if I actually have diabetes (type1 or type2)..

    when I wrote that last post I was welling up, sitting at a dinner table at a carvery place with my dissapointed parents that I hardly ever see, thinking to myself is my body even pulling the nutrients from this meat?? Is there any point me eating it?? I get so wound up because its only my family to who I appear to be in normal working health, either they have a seriously hardcore denial mechanism working for them in their lives, or they simply accept me for who I am to the point I could just straight uphit up the crack pipe at the dinner table and noone would bat an eyelid lol (jk).

    no but srsly I was not in a good frame of mind "At all" several hours ago.. And im not much better now.. These android phones suck **** too, just thought id point that out..
    Yep.and.i.can give you.fully.medically validated answer which could be easily proven with blood test. Its probably you had.low vitamin d level for years which possible lead into your bone issue. I do.not.think low t has to do with it. Reason you can not gain weight.is because you most.likely.have food intolerance to gluten and.other food resulting in Irritation to Intestinal wall causing you.not.to.absorb what you eat why you are.not gaining weight. I can give you a.laundry list of things which.may complement this while nhs drs.have no.clue about. Since majority of.people i.deal with are from UK i.see this in about 70% or.more.of them. Once proper.adjustment are.made.their.health dramatically improves.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    Are you a doctor yourself? Just curious..
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    Quote Originally Posted by mumbles12
    Are you a doctor yourself? Just curious..
    No Im a person.when drs.run into.cases they can not figure they refer them out to.me.for.further evaluation and report.back my.findings with detailed testing to drs run then we collaborate together. Again want.more.information pm.me.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Matrix View Post
    No Im a person.when drs.run into.cases they can not figure they refer them out to.me.for.further evaluation and report.back my.findings with detailed testing to drs run then we collaborate together. Again want.more.information pm.me.
    Ok thanks.
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    Cant even tell if your being sarcastic. But if I cant get help here im ****ed for life.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mumbles12 View Post
    Cant even tell if your being sarcastic. But if I cant get help here im ****ed for life.
    With that Mentality you are setting your self up for failure already....
    Think, the only direction I can go is up !!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Matrix View Post
    With that Mentality you are setting your self up for failure already....
    Think, the only direction I can go is up !!!
    No the health system sets people like me up for failure from birth, hence why ive been at this for 18 months...
    and im wating for you to reply to my pm btw seeing as you asked me to pm you, I do appreciate any help I can get so please dont make biased judgement about my attitude as you dont know me personally or anything I have gone through in my life.

    thank you.

    anthony.
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    at 5'11" and 145 you need to eat more. a doctor can't fix you not getting enough nutrients to grow.and 11-40 is the range of the test. at 21.5 you are well into the middle of the range.
    you want to be heavier? eat more food.
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    Quote Originally Posted by v4lu3s View Post
    at 5'11" and 145 you need to eat more. a doctor can't fix you not getting enough nutrients to grow.and 11-40 is the range of the test. at 21.5 you are well into the middle of the range.
    you want to be heavier? eat more food.
    ok well can you give me an indicator at least of where my weight ought to be?
    also do you not still think my t level is under for my age? I dont wish to sound naive but theres too much contradictory information, either that or im just reading it wrong.

    thanks for the reply btw.
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    Quote Originally Posted by v4lu3s View Post
    at 5'11" and 145 you need to eat more. a doctor can't fix you not getting enough nutrients to grow.and 11-40 is the range of the test. at 21.5 you are well into the middle of the range.
    you want to be heavier? eat more food.
    ok well can you give me an indicator at least of where my weight ought to be?
    also do you not still think my t level is under for my age? I dont wish to sound naive but theres too much contradictory information, either that or im just reading it wrong.

    thanks for the reply btw.
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    Your weight reflects your diet, your genetics, your activity level and your health. I have no idea what you eat how much you eat and how active you are, nor do I know what men are typically built like in your family.

    As far as your testosterone level...here is a link to a page that has several charts derived from studies of healthy males: http://www.mens-hormonal-health.com/...ls-in-men.html
    According to the research in those two studies you are right where most healthy men are at your age. You have to remember that the range given in most medical texts does not reflect healthy, it is only the range for all males ages 0-100+ with all conditions, and does not account for genetic freaks, and men who had testicular cancer and have no testicular function. SO based on that you are in a good range.


    To get back to the weight/health....I see no complaints of health problems, just a feeling of insecurity because you are unsure of your testosterone level and weight and appearance. If you want to change your weight it is up to you. If you want to change your appearance it is up to you. You can take charge of your life, you do not need a doctor at this point.

    I am 6'2" and 230, but my dad was 155 and 6'3" most of his life, my first brother is 6'1" and 170, and my other brother is 6'7" and 165. The difference is that I eat a lot more, and I exercise in a manner that builds a lot more muscle. btw my wrists are just over 7" in diameter if you want to compare, not sure what that means. A good buddy of mine is about 5'9" and about 170 and can still see abs, he was always called fetus boy for being small and skinny when he was younger. Now he eats like a bigger man, and lifts like he wants to be bigger....and he has gained 15 lbs of muscle in the past year and has had to get all new clothes.


    Stop taking blood tests, go workout (doesnt matter if its weights, boxing workouts or whatever), get good rest, put more food (protein and healthy fat if you want more muscle mass, starches and carbs of you do not care what kind of weight you gain) on your plate and see what happens.
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    Ok.......

    if you read "the post" you would know I was eating around 2600 cals a day, protein from sardines/tuna/pnut butter, eggs etc. Carbs from wheat bread, porride oars, and plenty of fruit and vegetables (well about 6 a day :/),
    id split into 6 meals a day, my grandfather is 5'9 180, dad was 5"9 180, uncle is. 6'2 250! Non of the men in my family are what you would have considered small and weak, maybe my grandad when he was younger cus he drank a lot, but still, and I did mention a lot of useful info in the actual post.

    now you have just said it yourself that the statistics im in the middle for are aged 10 to frikin 100, and is training gonna boost my t levels by that much?

    you also agree that 170 is small for 5'9? Im talking about an issue with "natural weight" not training weight.

    I have lactose gluten and wheat intolerance as ive found out, and idk how much this affects things.

    I eas barely 160 when doing 3 strength workouts and 3 dedicated conditioning drills a week (no boxing), and I would not increase workload even though my work capacity allowed for it, because I didnt want to drop down to 155 or 150 which I was slowly starting to.

    if you agree that my health is not up to scratch then that should be fixed prior to getting back into training "why do you think I quit training to figure out where I am naturally"? Yet doctors just mess me about, ive only actually had one blood test btw and it was last year. I will be 24 in august, 145 healthy sorry but no.

    thanks.
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    in your original post i saw NOTHING that was wrong other than your own insecurity. no health related problems. nothing.

    as far as the testosterone levels. that 11-40 is for ALL males.
    did you even bother to look at the link I posted to testosterone levels in HEALTHY males? do you know what median means?

    as far as diet, you can give a broad range of things you eat and it not really mean much. if you are lactose and gluten intolerant that means you are getting poor nutrient and caloric uptake which means your 2600 calories a day means little.
    if you are doing 3 conditioning workouts a week plus 3 strength ones and not gaining weight it sure sounds like you do NOT eat enough.
    you need a caloric surplus to gain weight. that is fact not a myth. boxing style conditioning can be very intense and burn a lot of calories and chances are since you have had interest in boxing your conditioning probably follows a similar style. strength training is not ideal for weight gain but it sure does a lot for building strength.

    so lets keep it simple. you have adequate testosterone. you have no symptoms, i do not agree that you are not healthy, you have given ZERO indication of health problems in your posts. you are young, you have dietary restrictions, and when you exercise you do not gain weight. in simple terms you are not utilizing enough of the stuff you need to gain weight. stop eating the things you are intolerant of, up your calories until you gain weight. To me it sounds like your doctors are hearing exactly what you have posted here and are doing the right thing. you do not need medication, you need to figure out PROPER diet and exercise and eat.
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    Quote Originally Posted by v4lu3s View Post
    in your original post i saw NOTHING that was wrong other than your own insecurity. no health related problems. nothing.

    as far as the testosterone levels. that 11-40 is for ALL males.
    did you even bother to look at the link I posted to testosterone levels in HEALTHY males? do you know what median means?

    as far as diet, you can give a broad range of things you eat and it not really mean much. if you are lactose and gluten intolerant that means you are getting poor nutrient and caloric uptake which means your 2600 calories a day means little.
    if you are doing 3 conditioning workouts a week plus 3 strength ones and not gaining weight it sure sounds like you do NOT eat enough.
    you need a caloric surplus to gain weight. that is fact not a myth. boxing style conditioning can be very intense and burn a lot of calories and chances are since you have had interest in boxing your conditioning probably follows a similar style. strength training is not ideal for weight gain but it sure does a lot for building strength.

    so lets keep it simple. you have adequate testosterone. you have no symptoms, i do not agree that you are not healthy, you have given ZERO indication of health problems in your posts. you are young, you have dietary restrictions, and when you exercise you do not gain weight. in simple terms you are not utilizing enough of the stuff you need to gain weight. stop eating the things you are intolerant of, up your calories until you gain weight. To me it sounds like your doctors are hearing exactly what you have posted here and are doing the right thing. you do not need medication, you need to figure out PROPER diet and exercise and eat.
    Do not get catch up in horse sh$t and number game non medical educated people say on line you have to be between x-y to feel good. So many people who do not have control in other issues are they life are looking to blame it on something else rather then their selves. I see it many times in people where they use hormones levels to control something because everything else is spinning out of control in their life. As mentioned before if numbers are good and feel still like crap look out side hormones to other areas which have been proven to help resolve some issues people may have.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    So erectile dysfunctional problems are completely acceptable at my age? Riiiiiight..
    and "your" link does not link from my android. ._.

    As for insecurity. You sound like one of those "outdated" screw the method just work harder types, xp use by any chance??

    yea I get that im right in the middle, but I still think it ought to be higher.

    you understand that the 3500 to 4000 cal intake is not always practical for some people "especially if ive got these intolerances".

    and why should I put myself at a disadvantage in life by just training and being under what my natural weight is supposed to be by like a stone or two, thats why I want to knoe for sure, there could be other hormonal issues involved aside from tesosterone.

    strength training doesnt do a lot for weight gain.... Please dont tell me you are suggesting I just eat more and not train..
    im just going to assume you "meant" training for strength as opposed to mass but im not too sure where your coming from with so no comment.. Sounds like your generalising to me.

    im pretty sure ill be fine if I incorporate compounds on strengtb days, squats and deads etc.., erase all intolerant foods, whilst upping cal intake.. But I want (read "really") to make sure everything is in working order so ill take the other guys advice "thanks".
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Matrix View Post
    Do not get catch up in horse sh$t and number game non medical educated people say on line you have to be between x-y to feel good. So many people who do not have control in other issues are they life are looking to blame it on something else rather then their selves. I see it many times in people where they use hormones levels to control something because everything else is spinning out of control in their life. As mentioned before if numbers are good and feel still like crap look out side hormones to other areas which have been proven to help resolve some issues people may have.
    dont get the wrong idea. Im sure plenty of guys are like that, when really they just need a shrink* or something, but like I have said my libido is piss poor atm, and unless you can introduce me to a smoking hot shrink I think ill pass..
    . you said yourself in your original post though that it can be related to other hormones right??

    im just going off of what you say so far, assuming you have credentials for such things of course.
    People are "always going to say just eat more and stay consistent and so on"..
    but take my uncle as an example at 18 stone.. Its not like he has to eat 3000 to 4000 calories a day to maintain his weight, in fact he "apparently claims he was too skinny in his twenties at 13 stone. Man 13 stone would be a blessing for me.
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    My concern is getting to the underlying cause and have some kind of medical validation or logic for it based upon some kind of lab testing or reasoning.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    Ok well "the only things" I have tested on so far was total t and diabetes which was last year (results in first post), other than that I took one of those home kit blood tests by "york" for food intolerances, on a scale of 1_4 for reaction, I got 2 for cows milk, 1 for gluten (gliaden), and a borderline reaction too wheat and pineapple (between 0 and 1). I took the test as I get ridiculous amounts of mucous build up, and I sometimes do that horrible grunting sound to clear throat (cant help it), and I was told that this may be due to dairy intolerance.

    I dont drink milk no more, and I rarely eat cheese, I do eat greek yoghurt with no reaction though..

    the strange thing is I get a reaction from porridge oats in the morning, maybe cus its harvested in wheat fields or contains gluten.. If every food contains gluten near enough I can see me having a hard time, my biggest reactions now come from brown bread, and porridge oats.

    I keep meaning to check ingredients on the raw oats but my girlfriend keeps throwoing the damn packaging away! There werent any intolerance at reaction level 4 however, and I dont know if I should progress to food "allergy testing" I think that would be more if I was getting rashes and stuff right? I dont know enougbh to say.....
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    food allergies may not cause rashes that you can see, but they can cause inflammation and poor digestion.

    aside from others saying you look too thin, and the feeling that you should weigh more...do you have any kind of symptoms of anything?
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    Well ive only tested for intolerance so far as opposed to allergy but....migraines, lack of concentration, constantly having to clear my throat, feel numbness behind nose, and around brow area or behind eyes, dry coughs, mostly in morning (might be dust allergy or something), I have body acne but I dont think that is is in any way excasserbated by food... The other things im not sure. The most annoying cant deal with symptom is the mucous, as im constantly snorting its not like I can spit everywhere. Its embarrassing and people have commented on it, I also have a sinus like twitch on just one side of my face, probs just nerves..
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    Mucous build up is the most obvious one for me, constantly clearing throat, youd think I had a hardcore cocaine habit but I dont. It has been commented on by people I have had to work with and by my family and friends at times.
    I get migraines and numbness behind nose and eyes also around brow area.
    I struggle to concentrate. Im depressed, prone to mood swings.. I get a wierd nervous like twitch on one side of face and I can feel sinus vein pulsing when I toouch nearnose/midface, but even if im completely relaxed, it is "much worse" if people smoke around me, or I drink alcohol, so I try to avoid that stuff now where possible..
    thats alls I can think of that stands out to me apart from weight and poor erection problem.
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    Have you done actual allergen testing with a dr? I have chronic sinusitis and it led to sleep apnea causing fatigue, irritability, poor concentration, and chronic post nasal drip (aka lots of mucus in my nose and throat) which led to frequent sinus infections and sinus headaches.
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    They wont let me dude, the doctors here are slimy reptillian mother****ers who only want to get the city reliant on anti depressants, or get send them to a councellor...
    you could have a swollen penis, yellow eyes and hamster cheeks and theyd suggest that the cause is purely psychological.. I dont know what to do. Other than take one of those home testing kits and I dont think they will be reliable enough, I already bought one for 17quid and it broke (didnt get money back)..
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    Quote Originally Posted by mumbles12 View Post
    They wont let me dude, the doctors here are slimy reptillian mother****ers who only want to get the city reliant on anti depressants, or get send them to a councellor...
    you could have a swollen penis, yellow eyes and hamster cheeks and theyd suggest that the cause is purely psychological.. I dont know what to do. Other than take one of those home testing kits and I dont think they will be reliable enough, I already bought one for 17quid and it broke (didnt get money back)..
    YOU ARE TOXIC ...have altered liver detoxification pathways and probably Gi integrity is compromised. Then take matters in your own hand go to out side sources. Yes it cost more money, but you get more done.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Matrix View Post
    YOU ARE TOXIC ...have altered liver detoxification pathways and probably Gi integrity is compromised. Then take matters in your own hand go to out side sources. Yes it cost more money, but you get more done.
    What makes you say that? You mean due to my symptoms right? Food related or are you suspecting something else? How do you classify someone as "being TOXIC".
    the gi thing and other jargon means nothing to me as I dont know what it means, have I been eating too much of the same food? Is it environmental?
    where can I go to sort this out then? (please answer all of my questions not just one).

    thank you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mumbles12

    What makes you say that? You mean due to my symptoms right? Food related or are you suspecting something else? How do you classify someone as "being TOXIC".
    the gi thing and other jargon means nothing to me as I dont know what it means, have I been eating too much of the same food? Is it environmental?
    where can I go to sort this out then? (please answer all of my questions not just one).

    thank you.
    You.can.not.tolerate smoke.and.alcohol your.liver pathways are.not.working properly. Probably undermethylated.like.most.blok es due.to bad genes. I.have worked.with.numerous people.from.UK.and.their are similarity do.to.inability to.detoxify certain chemicals (smoke and alcohol) are the two.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Matrix View Post
    You.can.not.tolerate smoke.and.alcohol your.liver pathways are.not.working properly. Probably undermethylated.like.most.blok es due.to bad genes. I.have worked.with.numerous people.from.UK.and.their are similarity do.to.inability to.detoxify certain chemicals (smoke and alcohol) are the two.
    So are you saying I should come and see you then.. Are you even in the UK?
    if not then where else could I go to? What do I need to ask for?
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    Quote Originally Posted by mumbles12 View Post
    So are you saying I should come and see you then.. Are you even in the UK?
    if not then where else could I go to? What do I need to ask for?
    I am saying you need to get with a good health professional who is very knowledgeable about these issues. You have imbalancing going on in multiple system. They are all interconnected just like one biological and neurological Jigsaw puzzle I have found not many Dr's in the UK who are integrative medical specialist. I really feel sorry for people over there. Their health care system is horrible and probably with in the next 10 years UK health will continue to decline unless they do something major overhaul.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    You say hardly, so in that respect we can assume you mean their is somebody right? Im already past the point of "ok im gonna have to pay for this" and am waiting for you to give me something substantial on where to go. Ill even go to europe if I have to.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mumbles12
    You say hardly, so in that respect we can assume you mean their is somebody right? Im already past the point of "ok im gonna have to pay for this" and am waiting for you to give me something substantial on where to go. Ill even go to europe if I have to.
    Last time.we checked i thought you were in Europe lol
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    well yea, but just sayin if i had to go to another country on this continent i would book it off work, i wlecome the travelling, but coming to america might be more difficult, mostly cus ive not done that before haha.

    There are private hospitals, in fact im getting a ct scan for an unerupted canine at a private hospital now (with refferal from another source), but the NHS is not the be all and end all, its getting refferals that are the problem. You say your not a doctor.. im not sure what it is you do but maybe a ref from somebody like yourself would get me whatever tests I need at a private hospital? if i even needed a referal of course..

    Dont worry I lost my faith in the NHS about a year ago, think i stated that in first post lol. But my health is important to me, I really want to take matters in to my own hands, which is probs why im coming off as obsessed :/.

    Would i need medication to combat toxicity? or just diet change? surely you guys in America are just as prone to such things if its a case of environmental? Im no expert but i would have thought so..

    I drink a lot of green tea IDK if that helps? also my only other beverage of choice is water (tap water that is), I dont trust bottled anymore, but I need to think about getting a Britafilter or similar product i rekon..
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    Quote Originally Posted by mumbles12 View Post
    "Great"!

    so im stuck like this then basically, Im sick of people telling me I look like a methodone addict, while doctors say I look fine.. I cant take much more of this ****, its getting to the point Im afraid to step foot outside the house because im embarrassed of how I look, working out doesnt help because my wrists look like I had rickets as a child, which I have no way of even knowing if I did.. Im 24 this august.. My elbows popped out of placw, tried to get a scan for osteoporosis around the time I got my blood test, those results were years ago btw.. My total t level might be even lower know because I look really ****ing ill, and people in my family think its all in my head, its bull****, there just used to what I look like, and there not exactly role models..

    im ****ing sick of this ****. I know I sound like an impatient, but ive been trying to sort this for a few years and nothing gets done cus its always more *******s to deal with, more refferals that I cant get and am denied, more doctors telling me its my mind and not me physically.. Of course thats why my bones curve inwards, and I cant get a ****ing erection unless its first thing in the morning and even then its only a semi..

    its not me whos neglecting this, its the bastards I have to go to in order to get things put right, they simply "dont give a ****"
    ive changed medical practise twice already, my healths just going from **** to worse, im isolating myself from everyone that I can get away with keeping away from,.. Ive ditched friends ive known for 8 years because of their comments on how I look, they telling me im looking like gollum, im wasting my life trying to sort this out, "wasting", ive ****ing had enough, im ready knife the living **** out of the next evil eyed one eyebrowed doctor that disregards what is happening to me...

    ****ing hate this..
    I have felt the same way as you do. I have certain insecurities of going outside my house and i still do. But thats one of your limiting factors. You need to get out of wherever you are and do some social interaction. Going to work for me sucks but it helps. Not only that, but dont just DO boxing. Have a goal. A goal to win your first fight. Then train for that first fight. Eat right, Supplement right, do things right to get to that goal. The one thing for me that suks is i want somethiung, then i change my mind. And thats one thing you cant do. Pick something that you really want and find a way to get it. You are basically turning your head right left up down and then when you look straight you feel like its good to move forward, but then your worried about the right left up down AGAIN. Just move forward, stop letting fear dictate your life. get out, find goals. COMPETE. and get social.
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/193693-lifting-heavy-every.html
    MY LOG ABOVE^^^ Yes i Squat heavy every single day. Come see how it works out!
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    Quote Originally Posted by mumbles12 View Post
    well yea, but just sayin if i had to go to another country on this continent i would book it off work, i wlecome the travelling, but coming to america might be more difficult, mostly cus ive not done that before haha.

    There are private hospitals, in fact im getting a ct scan for an unerupted canine at a private hospital now (with refferal from another source), but the NHS is not the be all and end all, its getting refferals that are the problem. You say your not a doctor.. im not sure what it is you do but maybe a ref from somebody like yourself would get me whatever tests I need at a private hospital? if i even needed a referal of course..

    Dont worry I lost my faith in the NHS about a year ago, think i stated that in first post lol. But my health is important to me, I really want to take matters in to my own hands, which is probs why im coming off as obsessed :/.

    Would i need medication to combat toxicity? or just diet change? surely you guys in America are just as prone to such things if its a case of environmental? Im no expert but i would have thought so..

    I drink a lot of green tea IDK if that helps? also my only other beverage of choice is water (tap water that is), I dont trust bottled anymore, but I need to think about getting a Britafilter or similar product i rekon..
    Green tea is horrible for you LOL you are causing major thyroid issues due to huge amounts of flouride which cause low iodine levels. Through proper personal and medical history it is usually easy to find out where people are their worst enemy LOL As much as I hate to say its the health nuts are the ones who have the worst imbalance in biochemistry which is mainly brought upon by their own doing...
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
  

  
 

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