New here and need advice - AnabolicMinds.com

New here and need advice

  1. Charlieg's Avatar
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    New here and need advice


    I am 41 and I recently moved to ny state. The wife got great insurance which started a process of getting a new doctor and check ups. Dr. Had me take labs and noticed my T level was 214. Sent me to urologist which tested me again and had 264. He put me on 25mg of clomid daily for 3 weeks and tested again, level is now 461. I stopped taking the clomid the day of the test because it made me very emotional and depressed. I told him this and he gave me two options, continue taking clomid 25mg every other day or try androgel 1.62 at 2 pumps a day.

    Since I started this process my wife lost job and insurance. Androgel will be $400 a month and clomid about $30. Not sure what I should do if anything. Will my level stay put or would I have to keep taking clomid to keep it here. Could I try compounding, not sure how much this would cost. If I did compounding or gel, would I have to do this forever. But would I have to take clomid forever? I am not feeling any positive effects of increasing level. Should my level be higher than 461. Dr. Was aming for 500, but whos to say thats high enough for me?

    Any advice would be helpful.

  2. lboston's Avatar
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    I did the Clomid for 6 weeks and brought my level from a 192 to a 720. It takes some time to work, 3 weeks may have have not been long enough. With Clomid you are stimulating your own body to produce more test.

    When you take test in from an exogenous source you are going to see a rise more quickly. It made me a bit edgy and emotional as well, but I was able to manage it for the most. Most serious side effect I had was wanting to watch "The View" every afternoon! ; )
  3. Charlieg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lboston View Post
    I did the Clomid for 6 weeks and brought my level from a 192 to a 720. It takes some time to work, 3 weeks may have have not been long enough. With Clomid you are stimulating your own body to produce more test.

    When you take test in from an exogenous source you are going to see a rise more quickly. It made me a bit edgy and emotional as well, but I was able to manage it for the most. Most serious side effect I had was wanting to watch "The View" every afternoon! ; )
    Were you able to stop taking clomid and have your level stay up? How high can someone go up with clomid?
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  4. lboston's Avatar
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    I switched to test cyp injections. My wife got pregnant, so fertility wasn't a concern for me anymore.

    I was on Clomid for 6 weeks.
  5. v4lu3s's Avatar
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    if it was me i would try the clomid. it leaves more of the natural system intact/functioning than trt does. plus its pretty damn cheap!
  6. Gutterpump's Avatar
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    Clomid is liver toxic and not an option for long term use. Clomid is not TRT, it's only useful if you feel you have been shutdown and need a restart. If you have naturally low levels, it is only a temporary crutch. I would never consider Clomid for long term therapy. HCG will do the same if not better, and is pretty damn cheap. It stimulates the testes to a much higher degree. If you wanted to maintain testicular function, use HCG + test-shots. Some people have been successful on HCG monotherapy too... but never ever consider Clomid as a permanent solution.
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  7. The Matrix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutterpump
    Clomid is liver toxic and not an option for long term use. Clomid is not TRT, it's only useful if you feel you have been shutdown and need a restart. If you have naturally low levels, it is only a temporary crutch. I would never consider Clomid for long term therapy. HCG will do the same if not better, and is pretty damn cheap. It stimulates the testes to a much higher degree. If you wanted to maintain testicular function, use HCG + test-shots. Some people have been successful on HCG monotherapy too... but never ever consider Clomid as a permanent solution.
    Please provide source of information for this claim. There are much more things to worry about then toxicology of one drug which is taken 3 time a week. Acetaminophen will do more damage long term then clomid ever will. Take a look at the potpourri of drugs people over age of 50 years are on. One pill along with lifestyle modification could possible reduce that number significantly. Benefits out weight risks with clomid provided following minimal dosage needed for long term useage.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
  8. Gutterpump's Avatar
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    So you think Clomid is superior to HCG? I don't understand why you'd think that.

    HCG is much better, far more effective, and safer.

    Clomid is great if you want to feel like a woman. It is a SERM and all SERMS have pro-estrogen effects on top of their selective anti-estrogen properties. There are far more side effects with SERM therapy than any other therapy out there.

    HCG mimicks LH, which is responsible for test production. If you have an issue with low test, then supplement with test, or LH...but I am strongly against the use of Clomid because of it's side effects and intended purpose (cancer drug). There are FAR better meds for TRT.

    Heck, to get more technical, GnRH is far superior to even HCG, as it pushes your body to release more LH AND FSH...restoring NATURAL pituitary function without acting like a pro-estrogen and causing emotional side effects and other issues.

    Edit: You can use it, but it's by far not the best option for reasons stated above. Also, just because tylenol is also liver toxic, doesn't mean anything, it's still bad for you.

    Either way, it's your choice (OP)...just giving all the information to you so you can make an educated decision
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  9. The Matrix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutterpump View Post
    So you think Clomid is superior to HCG? I don't understand why you'd think that.

    HCG is much better, far more effective, and safer.

    Clomid is great if you want to feel like a woman. It is a SERM and all SERMS have pro-estrogen effects on top of their selective anti-estrogen properties. There are far more side effects with SERM therapy than any other therapy out there.

    HCG mimicks LH, which is responsible for test production. If you have an issue with low test, then supplement with test, or LH...but I am strongly against the use of Clomid because of it's side effects and intended purpose (cancer drug). There are FAR better meds for TRT.

    Heck, to get more technical, GnRH is far superior to even HCG, as it pushes your body to release more LH AND FSH...restoring NATURAL pituitary function without acting like a pro-estrogen and causing emotional side effects and other issues.

    Edit: You can use it, but it's by far not the best option for reasons stated above. Also, just because tylenol is also liver toxic, doesn't mean anything, it's still bad for you.

    Either way, it's your choice (OP)...just giving all the information to you so you can make an educated decision
    Clomid is not TRT

    1. Insurance do not cover HCG because of jack azz starting HCG diet. Its up to $195 for month supply
    2. When traveling it a huge inconvience
    3. Taking a pill 3 times a week is much more convient.
    4. Clomid works as long as there is a proper environment for it to do its job
    5. Clomid and HCG are both prone to stress levels being diverted where T is not
    6. I have many people who have failed clomid from other top medical professionals and are doing fine on it. Reason being other underlying issues where never address is why they failed.
    7. Why suppress LH rather then stimulate it. Kind of defeats the purpose ...EHHH?
    8. Different stroke different folks.
    9. To prep people for restarts may take up to 3-4 months. If on TRT they are not taking off until other issues are address.

    You can not build a mansion on a crappy foundation..it will crumble like many do when they attempt a restart.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
  10. JudoJosh's Avatar
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    Not to mention that hCG can shut down you T production via negative feedback.

    Clomid is cheap, easily attainable, effective and relatively safe.
    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates
  11. The Matrix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    Not to mention that hCG can shut down you T production via negative feedback.

    Clomid is cheap, easily attainable, effective and relatively safe.
    What he.. I mean I said ..what he said LOL
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
  12. JudoJosh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Matrix View Post
    What he.. I mean I said ..what he said LOL
    Yea I see it in your post now.. Numbers confuse me easily

    Also with the popularity of this hCG diet craze the oversea market for it has been flooded and as a result it isnt as easy to get as it once was (without a script) and the little that is out there, a lot of it is bunk. On the other hand, clomid still is readily available
    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates
  13. Gutterpump's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Matrix View Post
    You can not build a mansion on a crappy foundation..it will crumble like many do when they attempt a restart.
    If his intentions are to attempt a restart, then clomid is definitely the choice.

    If he knows that he has to be on for life though, then hcg and/or test is much better. That's all I'm saying.

    I don't even think GnRH can be prescribed to aid pituitary function, but it wouldn't suppress at all, it stimulates the pituitary and is the best restart option for anyone. Too bad there's been no long term studies of it, at least none that I know of.
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  14. umbro's Avatar
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    Clomid Seems to have alot of emotional responses. I wouldn't try the androgel untill you have tried other serms at least. RX or not they are not hard to find. Tamox seems to be less emotional for me, Torem would be worth trying too. I'd Start using Tamox instead of the clomid to see how you react to it, you may like it much better.
  15. The Matrix's Avatar
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    clomid side effect are dose related. I have drs who are using it with great success at super low dosages with their patients till we can work together to find out what else is involved.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
  16. Gutterpump's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by umbro View Post
    Clomid Seems to have alot of emotional responses. I wouldn't try the androgel untill you have tried other serms at least. RX or not they are not hard to find. Tamox seems to be less emotional for me, Torem would be worth trying too. I'd Start using Tamox instead of the clomid to see how you react to it, you may like it much better.

    I don't think torem or tamox are currently prescribed by physicians for a restart protocol. Won't be an option for him.

    I agree with Matrix' post above. Clomid is the best SERM, never fails unless you have primary issues with testes. It's the best option until the OP can figure out why his test is low. But again, not a permanent treatment. Don't make the mistake that most people take by diving into TRT. Find out why your levels are low first, treat those issues, and then retest. It's a process. Clomid will work in the meantime.
    Millennium Sport Technologies Representative
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