My estrogen is out of range, I need your opinion on why

[mcr]

I started a med called pregabalin and started developing gyno a few months ago and went to Dr. He ordered blood tests. (never done any steroids)

Blood test in January showed my T dropped to 500, and my estradiol around 60 (high) - normal T for me is 900s

At this point I stopped pregabalin and did another blood test a week later

Blood test in February showed my T dropped to 130, and estradiol was in normal range, low FSH, low LH
Blood test in mid April showed results similar to January

Something is screwing with my hormones, and it's not supplements or medication. It seems my symptoms might even be unrelated to pregabalin, more of a coincidence. Does anyone have any good links on what causes high E? I'm 33.

Thanks brahs.

 

[DetroitHammer]

I started a med called pregabalin and started developing gyno a few months ago and went to Dr. He ordered blood tests. (never done any steroids)

Blood test in January showed my T dropped to 500, and my estradiol around 60 (high) - normal T for me is 900s

At this point I stopped pregabalin and did another blood test a week later

Blood test in February showed my T dropped to 130, and estradiol was in normal range, low FSH, low LH
Blood test in March showed results similar to January

Something is screwing with my hormones, and it's not supplements or medication. It seems my symptoms might even be unrelated to pregabalin, more of a coincidence. Does anyone have any good links on what causes high E? I'm 33.

Thanks brahs.

I do not know the answer, but Pregabalin slows down the neurotransmitters which can have an effect on the release of hormones, throwing them out of balance. Even at 33 years of age, 500 is a respectable level of test with 900 on the high side without the help of AAS. But assuming it dropped, I'd suspect the interference with neurotransmitters as the reason for the drop, which could explain the elevated E2. But why your test levels dropped that far after quitting cold turkey is harder to explain. It could be that the rebound further interrupted the transmission of neurotransmitters, but I really have no idea. What is your test/E2 levels now, after your body has stabilized? I think a week after going cold turkey was too soon to be tested.

 

[ambulldog]

yeah give yourself a few weeks or so before re testing. no sense having an invalid test to go by. also 900 is not a normal t level for someone your age, 4-600 is moe like it

 

[mcr]

Thanks guys. ambulldog, My T level was around 950 at age 25. You think it would drop that much by age 33?

I was under the impression that T levels drop 0.3% per year, on average.

 

[mcr]

I do not know the answer, but Pregabalin slows down the neurotransmitters which can have an effect on the release of hormones, throwing them out of balance. Even at 33 years of age, 500 is a respectable level of test with 900 on the high side without the help of AAS. But assuming it dropped, I'd suspect the interference with neurotransmitters as the reason for the drop, which could explain the elevated E2. But why your test levels dropped that far after quitting cold turkey is harder to explain. It could be that the rebound further interrupted the transmission of neurotransmitters, but I really have no idea. What is your test/E2 levels now, after your body has stabilized? I think a week after going cold turkey was too soon to be tested.

Hey sorry I made a mistake. The last blood test was last week, almost 2 months after I stopped the med. Also one other thing I forgot to mention, I take finasteride 1mg everyday for hairloss. Been taking it for years without any problems, but it could be the problem since it's known to do this.

The thing is, the timing of the gyno coincided with pregabalin, that's why I didn't think it could be finasteride.

Do T levels really drop that fast? this is pretty shocking. My T levels were around 950+ just 7-8 years ago.

 

[ambulldog]

Hey sorry I made a mistake. The last blood test was last week, almost 2 months after I stopped the med. Also one other thing I forgot to mention, I take finasteride 1mg everyday for hairloss. Been taking it for years without any problems, but it could be the problem since it's known to do this.

The thing is, the timing of the gyno coincided with pregabalin, that's why I didn't think it could be finasteride.

Do T levels really drop that fast? this is pretty shocking. My T levels were around 950+ just 7-8 years ago.

for all you know the test you took at 25 could have been invalid. either way at your age now 900 is not the norm

 

[The Matrix]

T at 950 would like to know what e2 and shbg. I have seen guys as high as 1300 tt but shbg 150!! No trt which makes me wonder what the real.picture is.

 

[DetroitHammer]

I once had test levels over 6000 but my SBH was in range. E2, however, was at 234.

 

[mcr]

I am doing another blood test in 2 hours. Doc wants T, DHEAS, FSH, Estradiol (ULTRA SENSITIVE), creatinine, LH, SHBG

I am starting to feel this is all related to finasteride.

If it is indeed the finasteride, I understand some people have has success countering the excess E with tiny doses or Arimidex. Can anyone comment on this?

Or what would be the best way to keep E in check?

Thank you!

Some test results below if you can make sense of the results below and have any ideas let me know. Don't feel bad if you can't, I am seeing an endocrinologist with 25 years of experience and he doesn't have a definitive answer. My PhD is Broscience tells me it's just finasteride though. The strange thing is the drop in all hormone levels in Feb.


JAN TEST
T total 589
FSH 0.7 (low)
LH 2.8
Estradiol 59 (high)

FEB TEST - 1 week off pregabalin
T total 110 (low)
Estradiol 37 (high end of normal)
FSH 0.9 (low)
LH 1.9 (low end)

APRIL TEST
T total 575 ng/dL
DHEAS 141 mcg/dL
FSH 1.7 mIU/mL (low end)
LH 5.9 mIU/mL
Estradiol 54 pg/mL (high)

 

[ambulldog]

search finasteride on here. theres been a lot of threads regarding the side effects from that med, none good unfortunately

 

[mcr]

I did a search and can't quite find a specific answer as to what the best course of action is with finasteride gyno.

One interesting to mention: when I was on pregabalin also, my nipples were very sensitive. After stopping pregabalin, sensitivity went away and I am only left with gyno.

 

[EasyEJL]

are you sure its gyno if there is no sensitivity? you have hard lumps that aren't sensitive?

prior to starting TRT I had a testosterone level half yours with a slightly higher estradiol, and it wasn't causing issues. Reason I ask is that could be your normal level and be unrelated to the gyno.

was prolactin ever tested?

 

[mcr]

No lumps (technically it's pseudogynecomastia). No sensitivity after stopping pregabalin. Is it normal for T levels to drop from 950 to 500s in less than 10 years? I am quite surprised.

Prolactin was tested in January, 7.7 ng/mL
TSH 1.19 mIU/L

Any thoughts?

 

[The Matrix]

High e2 will drive up shbg so.these need to be evaluated by your Dr.

 

[EasyEJL]

honestly its not all that normal for test levels to be 950 in the first place. but going from early 20s to early 30s, depending on lifestyle and diet that is not at all unreasonable.

 

[hitest]

honestly its not all that normal for test levels to be 950 in the first place. but going from early 20s to early 30s, depending on lifestyle and diet that is not at all unreasonable.

He is on finesteride so high T makes sense. Mine has been in the 900s too while taking dutasteride and I am 50. Off the drug it would probably be around 600.

 

[hitest]

I am doing another blood test in 2 hours. Doc wants T, DHEAS, FSH, Estradiol (ULTRA SENSITIVE), creatinine, LH, SHBG

I am starting to feel this is all related to finasteride.

If it is indeed the finasteride, I understand some people have has success countering the excess E with tiny doses or Arimidex. Can anyone comment on this?

Or what would be the best way to keep E in check?

Thank you!

Some test results below if you can make sense of the results below and have any ideas let me know. Don't feel bad if you can't, I am seeing an endocrinologist with 25 years of experience and he doesn't have a definitive answer. My PhD is Broscience tells me it's just finasteride though. The strange thing is the drop in all hormone levels in Feb.

I've had a slight excess E2 as well - not as much as yours though. I tried to counter it with tiny doses of arimidex and then aromasin. Arimidex made me dizzy right away. Aromasin I could tolerate but its benefits faded after a couple weeks and I did not feel good on the drug. It really slowed down my running. I had high hopes for this but it wasn't working for me. Your mileage may vary. The Matrix has stated that GI health issues can cause E2 problems and I'm inclined to agree. Fixing this, however, is usually not easy.

I agree that your drop in T is worrisome. I certainly hope it does not represent testicular exhaustion from cranking out higher T levels. I doubt this despite the fin horror stories.

Your report on pregabalin make me suspect it instead. This is a nasty drug. I took something similar (gabapentin) a while back and got off it as soon as possible as the sides were bad. What is the reason for taking this drug? It may be related to your current problems too.

 

[EasyEJL]

He is on finesteride so high T makes sense. Mine has been in the 900s too while taking dutasteride and I am 50. Off the drug it would probably be around 600.

Hmm I hadn't particularly noticed that before, then again everyone I know avoids finasteride + its relatives like the plague.

 

[The Matrix]

Hmm I hadn't particularly noticed that before, then again everyone I know avoids finasteride + its relatives like the plague.

Problem with finasteride is its potential effect on dopamine receptors mainly on DRD2 gene. Result would end up being dopamine resistance resulting in side effect of low libido. Its not the testosterone which is involves so much with libido but rather dopamine and receptors response. It did not dawn on me until I saw my previous reports of Total T of 200-300 and I could bang a chick all day. At that time I also had a neurotransmitter test done showing higher dopamine levels. Makes me wonder is it really our hormones, but rather the effect of specific gene expressions causing the issues with hormones. As noted I have several guys at 100-200 TT and can bang chicks all day long with no issues. I have a few fina guys I am working on by resensitizing the dopamine receptor through a few different mechanism.

 

[hitest]

Problem with finasteride is its potential effect on dopamine receptors mainly on DRD2 gene. Result would end up being dopamine resistance resulting in side effect of low libido. Its not the testosterone which is involves so much with libido but rather dopamine and receptors response. It did not dawn on me until I saw my previous reports of Total T of 200-300 and I could bang a chick all day. At that time I also had a neurotransmitter test done showing higher dopamine levels. Makes me wonder is it really our hormones, but rather the effect of specific gene expressions causing the issues with hormones. As noted I have several guys at 100-200 TT and can bang chicks all day long with no issues. I have a few fina guys I am working on by resensitizing the dopamine receptor through a few different mechanism.

I absolutely agree that there is more to this than just the hormones. We don't have the full picture. I suspect there are other signaling pathways and receptors involved that could include neurotransmitters and other types of ligands.

 

[DetroitHammer]

I did a search and can't quite find a specific answer as to what the best course of action is with finasteride gyno.

One interesting to mention: when I was on pregabalin also, my nipples were very sensitive. After stopping pregabalin, sensitivity went away and I am only left with gyno.

The absolute best way to lower your E2 is with Aromasin. The other AIs don't compare and SERM's aren't worth your time, IMO. There are very few sides with Aromasin, but some complain of fatigue and high blood pressure, the latter due to more test. That may not address other issues you have, but if lowering your E2 is your goal, Aromasin is your best bet.

 

[The Matrix]

I absolutely agree that there is more to this than just the hormones. We don't have the full picture. I suspect there are other signaling pathways and receptors involved that could include neurotransmitters and other types of ligands.

Yes and I am focusing on there more heavily then hormones. Going to seminars about neurology and manipulation of brain chemistry is fascinating add another dimension to helping drs to take things to the next level.

 

[mcr]

New blood test results

T (total) 400
Estradiol ultrasensitive 33 (high)

I am on fin only, I haven't taken pregabalin in 8 weeks.

T seems extremely low. Above you mention that fin raises T level, well in my case it seems extremely low. Could the fin be lowering my T?

 

[pmgamer18]

Check out this link and there forum this may well be your problem.
http://www.propeciasideeffects.com/

 

[The Matrix]

Check out this link and there forum this may well be your problem.
http://www.propeciasideeffects.com/

I am working on multiple cases of this now and what I am finding is alot of guys with excellent T numbers and e2 ratio which tells me its not in the hormone system, but immune and neurological systems.

 

[pmgamer18]

As you know a lot of men in the past are messed up big time from using finasteride.

I am working on multiple cases of this now and what I am finding is alot of guys with excellent T numbers and e2 ratio which tells me its not in the hormone system, but immune and neurological systems.

 

[The Matrix]

As you know a lot of men in the past are messed up big time from using finasteride.

Yes and I am working at looking at ways to establish dopamine pathways on d1-d5 receptors. I am getting deeper into immune and neurotransmitters as I feel that is where the missing link is in a lot of cases. It may also explain the difference in how people can feel good on low T naturally and other need higher amts to get benefits. The brain and epigenetics is the next frontier in medicine.

Imagine if a guy had optimum detoxfication and neurological pathways along with optimum bio-individual endocrine system. You talking life expectency of 120 or more years..Its not that far off...I'm type of guy live to 70 with good quality of life rather then live to 100 being a vegetable and in pain. Give me will or give me a bullet in the head..

 

[mcr]

Thank you guys for the replies, very helpful.

I stopped the fin and am now on Lyrica. Blood test in a month. Will my T levels rebound you think?

Embarrassing story that happened today: I was with a hot 21 year old (I'm 33 and yes I can pull young hotties with ease) and failed to get it up. My ego is destroyed.

The Matrix: Is there a cost-effective way to monitor my T levels beside blood tests? Is there like a portable device like for people with diabetes? Or a way to test at home that doesn't involve a lab? If there isn't I should invent this.

 

[burlyman]

I'm coming in late to the party, but Fin has a terrible reputation for messing with the hormone levels. Depending on dosage and a person's sensitivity, it can literally be chemical castration. Having E.D. is extremely common in relation with Fin usage. Hopefully with time and SERM/AI therapy you can reverse its effects.

 

[The Matrix]

Thank you guys for the replies, very helpful.

I stopped the fin and am now on Lyrica. Blood test in a month. Will my T levels rebound you think?

Embarrassing story that happened today: I was with a hot 21 year old (I'm 33 and yes I can pull young hotties with ease) and failed to get it up. My ego is destroyed.

The Matrix: Is there a cost-effective way to monitor my T levels beside blood tests? Is there like a portable device like for people with diabetes? Or a way to test at home that doesn't involve a lab? If there isn't I should invent this.

Lyrica is chronic pain which will deplete testosterone its self (chronic inflammation) There are too many varaibles to content with and proper evaluation and case history is needed. Alot of red flags going up..

NO must have blood work done.

 

[mcr]

NO must have blood work done.

Sorry what is NO?

I had a lot of blood work done.

 

[The Matrix]

Sorry what is NO?

I had a lot of blood work done.

"N" "O" what part of it don't you understand LOL
Blood is only way to monitor the results to get it back the quickest. There is urine by it a pain in the butt, and takes much longer to get back. saliva I never trust.

 

[mcr]

Oh I see you were responding to my question about testing T levels at home.

What about saliva tests? Are they reliable?

 

[burlyman]

Sorry what is NO?

I know that I have asked my wife this question before.

 

[mcr]

Hey guys, one more question: I am reading a lot of contradictory information on whether pseudogynecomastia can be eliminated with E blockers.
Any thoughts?

Thanks!

 

[burlyman]

Hey guys, one more question: I am reading a lot of contradictory information on whether pseudogynecomastia can be eliminated with E blockers.
Any thoughts?

Thanks!

Only to the degree that an "E blocker" can help someone lose bodyfat. Pseudogyno is just fat that collects on the chest. Reduce your bodyfat and you will reduce pseudogyno. Gyno tissue is the hard nodule behind the nipple that does react (shrink) to and anti-E. Letro, Raloxifene, and mesterolone are the best options in the case of real gyno.

 

[mcr]

There is nothing hard behind the nipple. However endo calls it gynecomastia or pseudogynecomastia. This is not just the stuff from being fat. My bf is low. It also correlates with my E2 being high. It started developing when I added pregabalin to finasteride.

 

[burlyman]

There is nothing hard behind the nipple. However endo calls it gynecomastia or pseudogynecomastia. This is not just the stuff from being fat. My bf is low. It also correlates with my E2 being high. It started developing when I added pregabalin to finasteride.

The least "harsh" way to deal with the E2 issue while still is either mesterolone (proviron) or its OTC prohormone androsterone/epiandrosterone found in AndroHard or Stanodrol. It will raise the DHT levels, reversing the drop in DHT that finasteride lowered/caused. DHT is also an Estrogen antagonist. I'd start there and see how things go. You could add exemestane (aromasin) or an OTC anti-e like Erase to the above recommendation, but be careful-your joints are going to start drying up when you drop the E2 too low.

 

[mcr]

So far one week off finasteride.

Yesterday for the first time in a long time, I had a rock hard erection and maintained it until orgasm. This was watching porn (for scentific purposes of course).

I was so happy I started masturbating furiously so I could finish before the boner betrayed me, but it stayed with me til the end. It's too early to tell but I may be one of the lucky ones who won't suffer persistent side effects.

The bad thing is that I'm shedding a lot of hair. I really do not want to lose my hair at any cost.

If I take only .2mg of finasteride, will it block enough DHT to save my hair without raising E2 to abnormal levels? Is there a proven way to block DHT in the scalp only?

IMPORTANT NOTE: I never had gyno with finasteride. ONLY after I added pregabalin. Now I'm off both, but I eventually will have to get back on it because it's an amazing mood stabilizer and anti depressant and anti anxiety med.

 

[rfarns01]

Better to lose your hair, than erections and sex drive. You can always shave your head and will have more sex than men with hair anyways.

 

[burlyman]

Better to lose your hair, than erections and sex drive. You can always shave your head and will have more sex than men with hair anyways.

I started balding in my early 20s...by 30, I shaved it all off. The response? Everyone said it looked great and I got more attention from women than before (wife not so happy about that).

For the OP... if you insist on blocking DHT, then using a DHT increaser will just be a waste of time for both goals. OTC you can get Erase or Rx/RCs are those I mentioned above that will deal with E2. Those may work in conjunction with Fin.

 

[mcr]

Shaving not for me. So while on fin I need to take something to prevent E2 from being too high. Anything over the counter that can do this?

 

[burlyman]

Shaving not for me. So while on fin I need to take something to prevent E2 from being too high. Anything over the counter that can do this?

Erase is pretty popular. Good luck with the follicles.... fighting mother nature is a bitch.

 

[hitest]

So far one week off finasteride.
If I take only .2mg of finasteride, will it block enough DHT to save my hair without raising E2 to abnormal levels? Is there a proven way to block DHT in the scalp only?

Azelaic acid topical treatment will block DHT locally. Maybe not enough for everyone but it works for many.

 

[mcr]

Got the results of another blood test, this time I am not on finasteride or lyrica or anything

Total T: 434 ng/dL (ref range 250-1100)
Free T: 65 pg/mL (ref range 35-155)
Estradiol: 14 pg/mL (normal is below 29)

Questions:

Is it normal that my total T went from 950 8 years ago to 434 now? It seems like a huuuuuge drop. I know T levels fluctuate but in all my recent tests my T is in the 400s or 500s. That seems quite low for me.
Is my free T okay for bodybuilding purposes?

I will do another blood test in a few days to see what happens in I take lyrica but not finasteride.

 

[EasyEJL]

a single test that showed 950 could have been an anomaly, potentially a lab error. I'd have to question even why you had a testosterone level test at 25?

Also, diet plays a HUGE part in hormone levels. If you used to eat more saturated fat then, and eat a lot less now it would most definitely impact that.

You have to define "bodybuilding purposes" - are you trying to get to a ripped 175? a competition stage ready 175? a ripped 200? all are different. Ripped 175 sure, competition level bodyfat at 175 is a little iffy, but possible. Probably reaching a really ripped 200 would be hard at that T level, but it would be hard at your prior level too if that was accurate.

 

[The Matrix]

a single test that showed 950 could have been an anomaly, potentially a lab error. I'd have to question even why you had a testosterone level test at 25?

Also, diet plays a HUGE part in hormone levels. If you used to eat more saturated fat then, and eat a lot less now it would most definitely impact that.

You have to define "bodybuilding purposes" - are you trying to get to a ripped 175? a competition stage ready 175? a ripped 200? all are different. Ripped 175 sure, competition level bodyfat at 175 is a little iffy, but possible. Probably reaching a really ripped 200 would be hard at that T level, but it would be hard at your prior level too if that was accurate.

Improper sleep or.immune system dysfunction can lower testosterone by 60%. Why all areas need to.be explored