Axiron

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    I'm 34 my t point was 220 so the doc put me on axiron ,the question is that everything I read about it on here people say it's not that great .I've only been on it for 2 weeks but don't won't to waist time if it's no good ,have any of u had any good come out of using it I've read of guys loosing points on this and I can't afford that I used to be a very solid 6foot2 195 pounds about 3 years ago but it hasn't mattered what I do lately still loosing muscle staying tired and gaining weight I was exited to find out my t level was so low and hoped this would fix it but I doesent seem like it's any good from what I hear

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bmaharrey View Post
    I'm 34 my t point was 220 so the doc put me on axiron ,the question is that everything I read about it on here people say it's not that great .I've only been on it for 2 weeks but don't won't to waist time if it's no good ,have any of u had any good come out of using it I've read of guys loosing points on this and I can't afford that I used to be a very solid 6foot2 195 pounds about 3 years ago but it hasn't mattered what I do lately still loosing muscle staying tired and gaining weight I was exited to find out my t level was so low and hoped this would fix it but I doesent seem like it's any good from what I hear
    Client found a secret to the proper application to get increased to maximum results. I will contact him to get specifics and post it here. Its something about the angle applied and when and how proper stroke used..
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Matrix

    Client found a secret to the proper application to get increased to maximum results. I will contact him to get specifics and post it here. Its something about the angle applied and when and how proper stroke used..
    I would appreciate any info thanks
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    I would appreciate any info thanks
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    One of the other things I was wondering is how long would I need to be on it before I can tell a difference , and right now I'm supposed to put it on in the morning and I work outside and sweat alot so I wanted to ask u why it's not prescribed to put it on at night .I'm really hopping it helps me feel better my sex drive is still great I'm just always tired I'm fine laying on couch all day and my body has been hurting like muscles and joints I don't know if low t will contribute to that also
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bmaharrey View Post
    One of the other things I was wondering is how long would I need to be on it before I can tell a difference , and right now I'm supposed to put it on in the morning and I work outside and sweat alot so I wanted to ask u why it's not prescribed to put it on at night .I'm really hopping it helps me feel better my sex drive is still great I'm just always tired I'm fine laying on couch all day and my body has been hurting like muscles and joints I don't know if low t will contribute to that also
    From what I know if you are doing 4 swipes a day you need to do one under each arm then reapply it later on at night time other wise you tend to loose alot of the absorptoin.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    He just has me doing it one under each arm in the morning ,this is just a family doc so I'm not sure how much he knows about it that may not be enough to feel a difference.that's why I was wondering how long it usually takes to tell if it's working .
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bmaharrey View Post
    He just has me doing it one under each arm in the morning ,this is just a family doc so I'm not sure how much he knows about it that may not be enough to feel a difference.that's why I was wondering how long it usually takes to tell if it's working .
    I like to have Dr measure with in 7 days of starting to see if dosage needs to be increased.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    Thanks for the info
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bmaharrey View Post
    how long would I need to be on it before I can tell a difference
    its really almost impossible to say. even with injections it can easily take 3-4 weeks to build up to a difference in feeling. The testosterone alone is just 1 facet in how you feel, and the metabolites and conversion products from it can be critical.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    its really almost impossible to say. even with injections it can easily take 3-4 weeks to build up to a difference in feeling. The testosterone alone is just 1 facet in how you feel, and the metabolites and conversion products from it can be critical.
    Primary goal right now is to see where he is with absorption as well as TT, e2, DHT, LH. I like to have Dr's get results quickly and not waste time so I usually recommend 120 mgs right off the bat then retest in 7 days. The goal is to establish absorption and if this will work for you. If not then you move on to shots or even possible see if you are actually secondary and get things going with out an exogenous testosterone. If all else fails with in 7-10 days you will know if you are going to need shots instead of waiting 3-6 months dealing with typical endos.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Matrix View Post
    Primary goal right now is to see where he is with absorption as well as TT, e2, DHT, LH. I like to have Dr's get results quickly and not waste time so I usually recommend 120 mgs right off the bat then retest in 7 days. The goal is to establish absorption and if this will work for you. If not then you move on to shots or even possible see if you are actually secondary and get things going with out an exogenous testosterone. If all else fails with in 7-10 days you will know if you are going to need shots instead of waiting 3-6 months dealing with typical endos.
    yeah, I definitely agree. I was just more saying that the "feeling" may not happen for quite a bit longer, regardless of where levels are.

    from your experience, how long does it take for e2, dht, shbg to settle after TRT is started? From what I've seen in general, it looks to take a good 2+ weeks for those to hit their stable point.


    I found out about the axiron $25/month card for 12 months which (since my insurance doesn't cover topical testosterone) has me decided to talk to my doctor about it next visit in july and see about trying it for a few months.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    yeah, I definitely agree. I was just more saying that the "feeling" may not happen for quite a bit longer, regardless of where levels are.

    from your experience, how long does it take for e2, dht, shbg to settle after TRT is started? From what I've seen in general, it looks to take a good 2+ weeks for those to hit their stable point.




    I found out about the axiron $25/month card for 12 months which (since my insurance doesn't cover topical testosterone) has me decided to talk to my doctor about it next visit in july and see about trying it for a few months.
    I will get those direction for applying axiron which may help to get optimal absorption
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    took me about 5-6 weeks till i started to feel better with injections..
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    Quote Originally Posted by ohiostate2827 View Post
    took me about 5-6 weeks till i started to feel better with injections..
    can take up to 6 months to 2 years to repair the damage done from being low for so long. Which brings me to the next point as body heals at tissue level I have seen hypothyroid and hypoadrenal sneak up on people as this happens. Why perodically one should keep in touch with Dr to monitor these changes. I had one guy who had optimum thyroid, adrenals with low T was on TRT. A Year later felt like crap, We checked his T level, then we check his thyroid. thyroid was tanked as well as adrenals. Sex hormones where in optimal levels. Then there are others where every thing is perfect, thyroid, adrenals then we find their neurotransmitter or GI tract is out of wack. It really depends on the person bioindiviudality. I have seen some interesting cases over past several years which were completely paradoxical. Every once in a while you get a huge curve ball thrown which may require hours of researching or talking to other medical professionals to get their imput.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    That's good advice thanks I'll atleast get my thyroid checked when I go back and see where that's at
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bmaharrey View Post
    That's good advice thanks I'll atleast get my thyroid checked when I go back and see where that's at
    If you did not get a baseline level then get it. If a person got a baseline level, then I suggest Dr's to recheck it in 12 weeks to make sure of no surprises.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    If you look at the literature, two swipes (one under each armpit) is just a good – and sometimes better – than multiple swipes on a single arm due to the first contact drying and blocking the second contact. So I dose morning and evening two swipes. Also, I use a spray deodorant. If you don’t you get a real mess under the pits that sticks your hair together and hurts like hell as the they are pulled when you raise you arms. With double dosing, you won’t reach the levels of single dosing with 7.5 or 10g of Testim, nor will you ever reach the higher DHT levels due to the higher concentration and lower surface area of Axiron.

    One thing I have heard many are doing is single squirt and swipe under each arm and then a single squirt and swipe on the intercostals and rub the stuff in like you would Testim. Some do it on both sides and get the full dose of four full swipes, but this is off label and not how the product is to be used, plus it negates one plus of the product that you remove the contact issue with other people.

    When swiping, I start at the top of the pit and hold the applicator almost vertical (a slight angle towards the pit, maybe about 10-20 degrees. The first swipe starts out with little pressure (the applicator container is very rubbery and flexible – if you push too hard the stuff just squirts out 360 degrees). The pressure is enough to begin to bend the applicator edge up on the side that is sliding down as this stops spillage that will just drain down the side of your body . As you move down slowly increase the pressure, then move up with the same slightly increased pressure up (this time the upper part of the applicator will bend down a bit). When you feel the stuff is mostly out of the applicator (you pit will feel wet) then push hard and move up and down a few times and then push and press your elbow down to your side for about 30 seconds and then allow your arm to just hang. You will dry in under five minutes and can then use the spray.

    For me I first saw T levels of 450 with three swipes in the morning. The data is showing I won’t see much more or may even see a drop if I use four. Now I do two morning and two evening but I have not been measured yet. I can say this, my weight lifting and cardio are reduced from the Testim. I am going to try the two swipes under arm and then just rub the equivalent of two swipes on intercostals to see if I get a bump. My goal is not to have too high an increase in DHT.

    For me, I may switch back to the Testim, although I will say this: from a libido point of view there is something about the Axiron that is better than Testim even though T levels are not as high. My last labs showed and E2 of 25pg/mL I believe, so my T to E2 ration even with a T of only around 450 was almost 20:1. On Testim, with T levels of 1000ng/dL my E2 was around 90, which is about 10:1. So maybe – for me – the ratio is important. I used to think it was the DHT that drove my libido, but I think if your DHT is above the high end you don’t get much of more of libido boost with higher levels of DHT and may even reach a level where the modulation on libido may be negative. Everyone is different.

    Maybe Axiron does not convert to E2 as well. However, from a weight lifting perspective and cutting perspective the Testim was better. I am now trying to find that happy medium using Axiron and possible intercostal application. If I don’t get too much E2 conversion and can get my T up, then this is probably my solution as long as my DHT does not shoot up sky high. Of course, all of the this may be moot and I may see better results once my gut in healed and I am off the antibiotics. I once heard you say that AB can increase E or reduce T or both. I won’t know until after the protoco

    In conclusion: If I had started with Axiron from where I was originally I would be very happy. On Testim I could to a set of 225, 245, 275, and then 315 (5,5,5,1). Now I do 225, 245, 275 (5,5,3). In both cases I could easily do 225 at 8 for the first set, I just choose 5. I could probably easily do three sets of 8 at 225 (or even 245). For a 45 year old this is pretty damn good given my heart condition and actually I should be quite happy with this and accept it. I am beginning to reach this acceptance level as I get the best of all worlds – I don't know anybody personally that can do what I do. So I think Axiron is a very good product for me. I do need the assistance of the PDE5 inhibitors at all times on Axiron, while on Testim it was hit or miss (which actually made things worse from an anxiety point of view)
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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