New Androgel 1.62% Formulation

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    New Androgel 1.62% Formulation


    I'm 53, tried HRT using Androgel about five years ago, found that after an initial boost during the first few months that the effects wore off and eventually I gave up. Because of constant fatigue issues, I decided to try again. Results from early Feb blood test were: Total Test 321 [normal 250-1100] and Free Test 39.4 [normal 35.0-155.0]. I was prescribed the new Androgel 1.62% formula, two pumps/day after morning shower. The more concentrated formula makes it easier to apply as the amount of gel is small; otherwise, seems about the same as the old formula. I've been trying this new Androgel for about two weeks and haven't noticed any significant effects yet, positive or negative; I'm scheduled to have new blood tests in about a month. I'm wondering if anyone else is using this new formula and how it has affected you.

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    No, but before my doc started injections, he wanted me to try the original andro. It seemed fine and somewhat noticeable in about 2-3 weeks. I didn't like the process or the cream and we went with a 200mg shot. There is no comparison. In 2 days it went from hmm, ok to GOD DAMN.
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    Your Dr. is not doing this right he needs to retest you in 2 weeks why let you suffer did you know your levels can go down if the gel is not getting through your skin. Some men can't us gels and others that have a bad Thyroid there skin get thicker and gels don't work. Here is a cut and paste on what Dr. M says about this.
    ============================== ============================
    DrMariano
    Physician, Psychiatrist

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    Transdermal Hormone Replacement

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by chaos
    What is your opinion as to the steadiest release from a transdermal. I used them prior to injectibles, but my testosterone never increased, just DHT. I used androgel and a 10% PLO.

    People on the boards told me I didn't absorb (since T didn't increase), but my doc said the increase in DHT was proof something absorbed, though he was uncertain as to why all of it seemed to go to DHT.

    Speaking to your comment, he postulated I absorbed it "in one shot" as opposed to a steady release, so I therefore had a spike in DHT, similar to the spike the day after an IM injection.

    Ideally, for hormone replacement therapy, the transdermally based hormone is transferred into the fat layer of the skin. From there, the hormone can be released gradually into the bloodstream, producing stable level.

    Alcohol-based gels are more useful for hormone replacement since they allow the hormone to be absorbed into the skin fat and to be slowly released into the blood stream.

    Oil-based transdermal gels or creams - such as the PLO gels - are good for rapidly introducing substances into the system. They aren't as useful for hormone replacement therapy because they cause the hormone to bypass the skin fat and allow the hormone to directly go into the blood stream. This causes a large peak and a rapid fall in blood levels.

    Both alcohol-based and oil-based gels or creams will result in good absorption generally. They generally result in predictable blood levels of hormones and medications. If the blood level does not go up, then it is not being absorbed. Thus if a testosterone transdermal does not result in an appreciable increase in testosterone it is not well absorbed.

    Some people will have difficult absorbing a transdermal preparation. For example, people with hypothyroidism, can develop mxedema. This is a thickening of the skin due to the accumulation of mucin - a glue that holds cells together. This prevents transdermal absorption. In my patients, if a person develops lower thyroid hormone levels from either transdermal testosterone or estradiol, testosterone and estradiol levels fall. When I address thyroid hormone, testosterone and estradiol will again be abssorbed and levels rise. Other reasons for non-absorption include possible ethnic differences or genetic differences in skin such as oilier skin, etc.

    One other reason a hormone level does not go up is that the dose used is too low. For example, many patients are given one 5 gram packet of Androgel to use. This is too low for many men. Since there is negative feedback controlling testosterone production, at a certain dose, the dose is too low to make up for the loss of one's testicular testosterone production, when exogenous testosterone is added. Testosterone level actually will decrease when only 1 5-gram pack is used in many men. The percentage of men where testosterone will be low rather than high decreases when two 5-gram packs of Androgel are used. This would be the starting dose I would use. In these men, there is evidence of absorption - such as DHT (dihydrotestosterone) levels going up. But testosterone is either the same or LOWER. In these men, testosterone in Androgel IS absorbed. But the dose is too low.

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    Romeo B. Mariano, MD, physician, psychiatrist

    Any information provided on www.definitivemind.com is for informational purposes only, is not medical advice, does not create a doctor/patient relationship or liability, is not exhaustive, does not cover all conditions or their treatment, and will change as knowledge progresses. Always seek the advice of your physician or other qualified health provider before undertaking any diet, exercise, supplement, medical, or other health program.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Here is a copy of a file I make about going on Gels.
    ============================== =========================
    Starting on Androgel, Testim or Creams.
    Yes this happens a lot you start on a low starting dose 5 grams when your brain sees the testosterone in your blood even just a little it slows down even stops sending the LH and FSH message to your testis to make the Testosterone you were making. So let’s say your labs for Total T were 350 you add this dose of gel your brain sees this and you lose the base level you had before the gel.

    Now lets say you need more then 5 grams most do so now all you left with is what the gel is doing so lets say it's doing 200 so you lost 150.

    The reason you feel good is your levels go up that 200 the gel is doing in the first 2 weeks so your levels go up to 550 in theory. The brain sees this and you fall back.

    Why can this happen it might be how your putting on the gel, with Androgel you need to spread it over your upper arms and shoulders and down your back as far as you can reach this is half of your dose then do the other side. Just spread it over the area but don't rub it in.

    The other thing is it's not getting through your skin good so you need more. If you have a thyroid problem your skin will become thicker and gels and creams don't get through the skin and you need to switch to shots.

    I tell men when they go on Gels to retest in 2 weeks because you can end up feeling worse. Most men just need more gel. Dr.'s that tell men to go on 5 grams of gel and come back in 8 to 12 weeks for labs don't know much about the use of gels. Dr.'s that treat a lot of men for low T on gels see this happen and test them again in 2 weeks.
    When you go to do labs get up and shower that morning go do your labs and then put in the gel after your blood test so you don’t spike up your labs. If you can’t do labs in the morning shower put on the gel but don’t get any gel on the spot they take the blood from. Do your labs about 6 hrs later.

    Call your Dr. and tell him this and that your not feeling good you were but fell back.
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    Thanks for all the info! I'll see if I can get retested sooner, and if I could get shots instead of the gel.
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    If you can get good levels on this new gel stay with it but when you test do it in the morning after a shower but before you put on the gel what you need to know is how low your levels fall before putting on the next dose. We fell bad when levels fall to low on gels the best I could get to was the low 500's but at the time the lab we were using when up to 1595 so with this top of range the 500's was dam low. Today I do shots E3D subQ and keep my TT levels up into the upper 800's.
    Quote Originally Posted by reliable View Post
    Thanks for all the info! I'll see if I can get retested sooner, and if I could get shots instead of the gel.
    Last edited by pmgamer18; 03-25-2012 at 01:50 PM. Reason: spelling
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmgamer18 View Post
    If you can get good levels on this new gel stay with it but when you test do it in the morning after a shower but before you put on the gel what you need to know is how low your levels fall before putting on the next dose. We fell bad when levels fall to low on gels the best I could get to was the low 500's but at the time the lab we were using when up to 1595 so with this top of range the 500's was dam low. Today I do shots E3D subQ and keep my TT levels up into the upper 800's.
    Try rotating sites, shoulders legs calves this may help to resolve your issue. People use the same site which may be come over saturated over time not allowing proper absorption.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Matrix View Post
    Try rotating sites, shoulders legs calves this may help to resolve your issue. People use the same site which may be come over saturated over time not allowing proper absorption.
    I used test injections, but I swear I feel a LOT better using Testim! I use injections because they're more convenient and way cheaper, but I just don't get near the effect I do with Testim gel.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lexmuscle View Post
    I used test injections, but I swear I feel a LOT better using Testim! I use injections because they're more convenient and way cheaper, but I just don't get near the effect I do with Testim gel.
    When you say you feel alot better, specifically, what do you mean?
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrj View Post
    When you say you feel alot better, specifically, what do you mean?
    I feel way more calm, really smooth and relaxed. My sex drive is increased dramatically too. Injections really just don't do it for me, I get horrible joint pain with injections, sex drive sucks, not a good experience.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Matrix View Post
    Try rotating sites, shoulders legs calves this may help to resolve your issue. People use the same site which may be come over saturated over time not allowing proper absorption.
    Good advice, thanks!
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    Quote Originally Posted by reliable View Post
    Good advice, thanks!
    Give a try is all I say. After speaking to a number of pharmacist there is a good chance that it could have happened. Why it may explain people stop absorbing after a while.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    If you feel better on Testim keep using it if you can aford it to get this same result from shots try doing them E3D gels did not work for me so I swithed to shots. I had better levels but this high levels after the shot drove up my E2 levels and I felt good after the shot but down by the next one.

    I read Dr. Shippen he did the book "The Testosterone Syndrome" in it and it's dated he was down on shots not today he does shot to his self E3D subQ he finds doing this keeps him more leveded and helps to keep E2 levels down. Your not doing a big shot all at once.

    So if you can't aford the gels try this shots this way.
    Quote Originally Posted by lexmuscle View Post
    I used test injections, but I swear I feel a LOT better using Testim! I use injections because they're more convenient and way cheaper, but I just don't get near the effect I do with Testim gel.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmgamer18 View Post
    If you feel better on Testim keep using it if you can aford it to get this same result from shots try doing them E3D gels did not work for me so I swithed to shots. I had better levels but this high levels after the shot drove up my E2 levels and I felt good after the shot but down by the next one.

    I read Dr. Shippen he did the book "The Testosterone Syndrome" in it and it's dated he was down on shots not today he does shot to his self E3D subQ he finds doing this keeps him more leveded and helps to keep E2 levels down. Your not doing a big shot all at once.

    So if you can't aford the gels try this shots this way.
    That makes sense, I didn't think about how Testim is closer to sub-q than muscle. So injecting sub-q would probably give the same effect as Testim? Where would I inject sub-q? Does sub-q mean just below the skin?
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    You would shoot into the belly just off to the side of your belly button. I use a 27g 1ml. x 1/2" lg. needle the oil comes out slow so I just pull the amount of my shot in air into the needle I then put this air into the vail. I then pull the plunger all the way down and just hold it the oil comes out slow takes about a min. to get .35 mls. The I just pinch up the belly fat if your thin and stick the needle in and shoot to oil wil come out slow and you need it to come out slow.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmgamer18 View Post
    You would shoot into the belly just off to the side of your belly button. I use a 27g 1ml. x 1/2" lg. needle the oil comes out slow so I just pull the amount of my shot in air into the needle I then put this air into the vail. I then pull the plunger all the way down and just hold it the oil comes out slow takes about a min. to get .35 mls. The I just pinch up the belly fat if your thin and stick the needle in and shoot to oil wil come out slow and you need it to come out slow.
    I just shot it my rear end with insulin pins. Every one has plenty of fat back there. I shot my GHRT in my gut..
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    so I can use half inch insulin pins for my test shots? My body is pretty lean,can I use insulin pins in the shoulder and have same results as shot in rear end.
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    If you can reach behind and shoot in your butt go for it I can't and I have a lot of fat at age 68 on my belly.
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    I can break up my shots then to twice a week instead of once a week with the regular pins.
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    Yes you can do the shots 2x's / week or even E3D is your having a problem with high Estraidol and falling to low by your next shot. But not all men need to do this when using HCG the 2 days before there next Test C shot the HCG will keep your levels up if your testis work good.
    Quote Originally Posted by fanzdslpwr1 View Post
    I can break up my shots then to twice a week instead of once a week with the regular pins.
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    no HCG. just 160mg a week of test cyp
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanzdslpwr1 View Post
    no HCG. just 160mg a week of test cyp
    Why so much testosterone? If one needs over 120-140 mgs a week then there is something else probably out of balance (adrenals, thyroid, e2, GH). Since working on people sleep patterns they have been noticing your TRT seems to be working better probably because GH out put is increasing. Sleep is one of the most over looked issues in health today. If people would sleep better then would have a lot less health issues in general.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    With this dose I feel you would do better to try half this shot 2x's / week it will work much better.
    Quote Originally Posted by fanzdslpwr1 View Post
    no HCG. just 160mg a week of test cyp
  

  
 

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