How much testosterone cypionate can you safely inject weekly?
- 03-07-2012, 03:16 PM
How much testosterone cypionate can you safely inject weekly?
I'm a 58 year old male. I had a blood test done a while back & my testosterone level came back at 180 I believe when the normal for that test is supposed to be between 400 to 1100. My doctor (an internist, which is what I believe GP's & family doctors call themselves now) told me I should take 100 mgs. every two weeks....after a while at that dose & not feeling any different....he told me to go up to 150 mgs. every two weeks.....I did that for a while & still noticed no change whatsoever.
I was told that you will know its working if u feel your sex drive increase.....bottom line (not by my doctor but from somebody on one of these types of forums). I also read an article on the internet where a test was done with people getting 600 mgs. a week for 20 weeks and no one had any bad side effects from this.
I lead a lot more sedentary lifestyle than I used to due to injuries sustained in a car accident...but I do swim 5 days a week. I could add a lot more personal info about my situation - but I don't know if that would help much with my question.
I use a 22 gauge 1 & 1/4 inch syringe & inject on the upper outer side of my right thigh. I have gradually increased the amount I take to 400 mgs. a week (2 days each week I take 200 mgs.). I still feel liitle if any change.
Is it safe to take an amount more than this on a weekly basis. Say 600 mgs. a week?
- 03-07-2012, 03:29 PM
Older you are.more testosterone you use.more.side effects on can experience. 100-150 is average dosage. If you not feeling it then its estradiol or something else .I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
03-08-2012, 04:48 AM
that study of 600mgs a week was done about 2 years ago. they were properly monitored. instead of juicing dosages do what that Matrix said. start with 150mgs every 7 days.
03-08-2012, 07:24 AM
03-08-2012, 07:44 AM
I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
03-08-2012, 11:21 AM
Thanks for the reply. As I mentioned in my post....I started out with 100 mgs. every 2 weeks. And I have gradually increased this dose to 300 to 400 mgs. a week (doing either two 150's 2 days a week, or two 200's 2 days a week, or one 150 & one 200 mg injection 2 days a week).
Which is obviously already over the amount you suggest. I don't know all the lingo associated with this topic....does "juicing" doses just mean high doses? I also see Estradiol & HRT mentioned in replies. I'm guessing that the info I'm getting is that I may need to take some Estradoil (which I see is a female hormone although I guess males have some of this too), & I also may need to take some HRT (which I guess is Hormone Replacement Therapy) too.
I don't have the finances (no health insurance) to buy all this stuff and experiment with different combinations & doses of it and get regular blood testing to see how it's affecting me. And I'm not sure that my doctor (who I like and respect) would give me the OK to take all these meds as I'm guessing you need a prescription for them.
I have talked to a few people who said that when they started injecting Testosterone Cypionate....it was like having a new lease on life. Saying that it drastically improved their mood, strength, sex drive, etc.
Of course this is what I hoped my experience would be.
Although the nurse who did my 1st injection at my doctors office and showed me how to inject myself told me that they had several male patients who received TC injections of 150 mgs. every two weeks did not show these kinds of results. I believe she said that most of them felt a bit better....but nothing like the folks I talked to that described it as a big life changing experience.
So I guess that nobody is suggesting taking anymore than I am at this point will help and in fact reccomend that I take less than I am now. And since I feel no different (better or worse) since starting TC & gradually taking more of it to the amount I am now.....it looks like it may be pointless for me to spend anymore money on this. I'm just thinking about what someone who had experience with TC told me.
"If you don't feel an increase in your sex drive....it isn't working....period....bottom line". So it looks like I should give up taking this medication. No point in going through the expense if it just doesn't work for me for some reason.
I appreciate the replies that I got from my question. One last thought. Is there any other medication that I could try that is supposed to bring about similar results to what Testosterone Cypionate does for some people, although it didn't work for me?
03-08-2012, 01:32 PM
03-11-2012, 11:04 PM
03-12-2012, 05:24 AM
03-12-2012, 11:03 AM
blood tests need to be done rather than just guessing what is going on. the dose that works for one person may not work for another, just like some doctors prescribe enough to get to the middle of the normal range and others give you enough to be on a permanent steroid cycle.
03-12-2012, 02:54 PM
And it also looks like that when u "cycle".....you are usually doing a higher than what would be an average dose for you over this specific time frame.
My bottom line is this.....the last time I had a blood panel done (which is very rare for me as I have no medical insurance), it came back as follows (if these #'s are not exact, they are very close). The normal range was from 400 to 1100 for this type of testosterone blood test, and mine came back at 138.
So I'm hoping that a blood test for testosterone will eventually be a very healthy number....say around 800 to 900....although 700 would be fine too I think. By the way - do most people that have blood tests done after being on TC for only a short while have a significant increase in their test numbers? I'm 58 years old as I mentioned b4. And as also previously mentioned, I started out injecting 100 mgs. every two weeks.....after feeling absolutely no difference whatsoever.....I have gradually increased it up to the amount I mentioned in my last post.
I would usually have already taken a 2nd dose of between 150 mgs. to 200 mgs. on this past Saturday (because my last injection was the one I referred to in the last paragraph). But since I was still not feeling any different....I wanted to come here and try to get some advice from people who are more experienced than I am regarding this subject.
At this point....should I go to AnyLab (the cheapest place to have this done that is close to where I live) tomorrow (the earliest time possible for me), & get the test, which will be exactly one week after my injection last Tuesday.
Or should I go ahead and take another shot today of the amount mentioned above.....and then wait a few days before I go? And is the the right time frame to do it after your last injection on my schedule less than a few days or more than a few days?
Also - I have read that when u start injecting TC....your body quits making what little amount that it was naturally producing of TC.....is this correct?
And say I do get a result that is in the normal range at some point.....say between 500 to 900. Am I then locked into having to take this stuff for the rest of my life, because if I quit taking it.....my body will revert back to only making 138 on the normal scale which is 400 to 1100?
Also.....if I do get inside the normal amount at some point.....but I absolutely don't feel any different.....should I keep taking it anyway because it is healthier for you?
The ONLY difference I've felt since I started with this stuff.....is that I think about sex more than I used to. But again, I feel nothing different physically. Is this very rare, or have others ever noticed this?
Sorry this got so long folks. I know people prefer short replies on internet forums....but I was trying to be as thorough as possible without making it like "War & Peace".
And I would again really appreciate any suggestions, comments, thoughts, answers, etc. THANKS!!!
P.S. - I'm also no forum expert. What is the difference when you do a "quick reply" as compared to clicking on "Go Advanced" (which I did with this reply & I think most or all of the other few I've done?
03-12-2012, 04:32 PM
sounds like you are doing the research now that you should have done before taking the first shot. what if you take 200mg a week...and don't feel any better? what if low testosterone was only a symptom of the problem?
and yes when you start introducing testosterone from an outside source your body stops making it, sometimes you can bring it back sometimes not, but usually when you start TRT it is for life. not a week, not a month but every week of your life until you stop or die.
I think you should be working with a better doctor to be honest. one that will take the time to help you nderstand what is happening, and make more effort to understand what is happening with you.
03-12-2012, 05:57 PM
I do know that I have symptoms that could point in the direction of my body not making enough testosterone. As far as my doctor is concerned, I have been seeing this guy for years & I like and respect him very much. He is an internest which I think they used to call G.P.'s or Family Doctors.
I have no health insurance & unfortunately just don't have the financial resources to see a specialist in this field which I'm guessing would be an endocrinologist or maybe a urologist and buy the meds & take blood tests on a regular basis. Although I can just swing being able to do everything I mentioned with my doctor now....who actually gives me a discount because I pay cash & he knows money is tight with me.
I asked this question on another forum that dealt with anabolic steriods. One of the replies I got sort of stuck with me, although maybe it shouldn't have. This guy was one of the moderators of the site and had made a tremendous # of posts & seemed to have the respect of the other members.
What he said was this "The Bottom Line with TRT therapy is whether or not you feel your sex drive increasing.....if it isn't.....it's not working....Period"! Now being the amateur that I am in regards to TRT.....I assumed what this guy had to say was valid. Maybe it's not.
Anyway - that forum seemed to be mostly geared towards steriods & TRT & HGH being for weight lifters and people who wanted to put on a bunch of muscles & people "cycling" in and out of all sorts of drugs that I wasn't familiar with....so I just thought I'd post my question on another forum to see what advice I would get which is how I ended up here.
And u are right....I certainly am a bit lost at this point. But this is what I'm going to do. I'm going to take another 160 mg. injection tomorrow & then wait a few days and then go get a blood test at an "AnyLab" facility that is fairly close to where I live. I already called them a few weeks ago to ask how much this test would cost me. I was told it was $79. Does that sound about right?
As far as working more with my regular doctor on this....here is the situation. He has some patients on the TRT therapy....but he's not an expert in the field....although of course he knows a lot more about it than I do. I also know his nurses/administrators pretty well. The nurse that gave me my 1st injection & showed me how to inject myself told me that all of his patients on TRT therapy took either 100 or 150 mgs. every two weeks.
He started me at 100 mgs. every 2 weeks & when I told him I didn't notice any change whatsoever....he bumped me to 150 mgs. every 2 weeks. And that is the maximum dose that I think he is comfortable with from my conversation with the nurse. I have been going up the ladder in dosage on my own.
He gave me quite a bit of TC on 3 occasions now, but I'm going to run out of it much sooner than I should if he's keeping track. I just felt I wanted to try more and the responsibility of it is on me. I'm going to either give up on it doing anything for me.....or I'll have to ask for more one of these days in the not too distant future....& if he's been keeping close tabs on this particular medication....then I'm going to tell him what I've done and let the chips fall where they may.
We have developed a pretty strong bond over the years & I think if he thought I wanted to try more than he gives to his TRT patients, he would be OK with that with the infamous "Don't Ask - Don't Tell" line of thinking. He knows that I'm a stable individual & wouldn't go off the deep end with anything.
I haven't lied to him about the fact that I'm now taking a lot more than he wrote the prescriptions for me to do.....the topic just hasn't come up lately (although I guess that could be considered a lie of omission).....I see him once a month for other health issues I have that are related to a brutal car accident I was in many years ago when I was the front seat passenger in a car that hit a big tree directly on my side going about 65 M.P.H.
The tree was right next to the road & in the split second that I saw it was going to happen.....I braced my legs on the floorboard (which I guess is probably a bad idea considering that both of my femurs & knees were just shattered to pieces).
Anyway - after I go get the blood test which will probably be on Friday or Saturday....I will come back here with the results & maybe somebody could sort of steer me in the right direction with that info.....like I said.....I'm just trying to learn more about this process & trying to do the best I can.
Sorry this got so long. THANKS TO ANYBODY WHO HAD THE PATIENCE TO READ THIS LONG REPLY. And I'm learning that a lot of folks DO NOT like long forum posts....so I hope you folks just skipped this when u saw how long it was.
03-12-2012, 11:57 PM
03-13-2012, 12:45 AM
I don't get it. I posted a reply to "v4lu3s" latest reply a couple of hours ago I guess....& I see it hasn't appeared here yet. I did see where after a reply that it is checked 1st to see if it is appropriate. I certainly don't think I wrote anything which would cause it not to be posted.
Hmm....maybe it was too long. Oh well....Que Sera Sera.
Now I really don't get it. This sentence is an edit of this post. Because this one showed up instantly. And I never saw the screen about it not showing up until it was vetted 1st.
Last edited by EagleClaw29; 03-13-2012 at 12:49 AM. Reason: added a bit to it
05-02-2012, 03:57 PM
Okay, I was taking cypionate and it quit working for me, my doctor says that he has had that happen before with the cypionate, so you may need to switch to the enanthate. I have been having no libido for way too long and believe it is my free test that is the problem.
05-02-2012, 07:10 PM
I doubt its the cyp. you probaly have high normal E2 levels. When is the last time they were checked?
05-03-2012, 01:41 AM
When one starts trt one usually feel REALLY great after a few weeks, but for many it seems stops working after a month or two. This is usually because of the above mentioned reason.
Personally I was doing really good untill I started to use HGC 5000iu. I shot 500 iu two times of week and my libido was gone. I think it made my testo levels too high.
If you are doing a short testo cycle then really high testo levels are ok, but not in TRT. Too high levels will rise E2 levels, which will kill the libido and will give you man boobs and can cause all kinds of health problems in the long run. Google high estorgen and men's health to learn more.
Have your total testo and E2 levels tested every few months... if you can afford test SHGB and free testo too. Try to keep your testo levels between 600 to 900 and e2 less than 30. the only way to know is to have at least these two test done regulary. Also you should have a regular blood test done to see how your liver etc. are.
Use differnt suplements to lower your E2 leves and also Arimedex, which is not cheap, but you need only 1/4 of a pill one to two times a week.
If you don't feel better on trt at all then the problems you have are not from low testo and or you take too much of it.
So more is not the answer... I personally now take about 50-60 mg every 4 to 6 days. But when I strated the program I took about 250 mg a week to get my levels us fast and up they went.. to 1300, which caused red face, no libido, sweating, acne, greasy skin etc.
So now I take less and try to keep my testo level less than 900. I take enanthe.
05-03-2012, 01:46 AM
What's your total dose weekly and are you following a cycle? You'll see diminished returns if you don't cycle on and off or a least reduce your dose to a HRT level. Between cycles, some people bridge with anavar and GH to maintain lean body mass. Long term cycles may saturate receptors and reduce binding efficiencies.
As others have suggested, do a full hormone panel, testosterone, LH, FSH, estrogen, etc. to confirm levels.
10-27-2012, 09:25 PM
That's 8 times the dosage and you're no longer correcting low Testosterone. Now your just on a cycle and most likely you're going to run into several problems.
400mg's a week is going to most likely raise your estrogen up so much that you're probably going to bloat up and end up with bitch tits and drive your sex drive down, not up. Without arimidex or a proper aromatase inhibitor and blood tests your just asking for problems.
You will also eventually raise your Hematocrit and Hemoglobin into the danger zone. This is called Polycythemia and needs to be corrected by blood donations, cutting back the test usage or a phlebotomy (blood letting). Your blood can get so viscous that you could die. (1.) Just taking 100mg a week caused (24%) of the testosterone-treated subjects developed polycythemia sufficient to require phlebotomy or the temporary withholding of testosterone.
400mg's and you're hitting the 90-99% chance mark over time. Note: It takes months for your blood to thicken up. It's also why so many guys do cycles. At first they feel great until their blood gets too thick. They start feeling like ****, get brain fog, short of breath, can't think, reduced performance, limp dick, and blood flow problems and cramping due to capillary flow problems. They feel like they need to stop the cycle or they will die so they cut the cycle and thing slowly correct themselves.
Let's not forget refilling the script. I doubt you have one because you'll burn through that script in no time and since you stated your blood tests "were a while back" most docs don't write scripts without blood work and more blood work and check ups.
What you need to do is get on a normal dosage like 100mg per week and after a month you need your complete full blood work done and see if your E2 levels are in check and in a healthy range. Too high and you'll be limp dick, moody, low libido, bloated and have bitch tits. Too low and your joints will be sore, you'll have brain fog, anxiety, no libido, and bone loss. Your ideal E2 or estradiol should be in the range of 10-50 picogram/mL. 20-30 might be a good target. 400mg's a week of test is most likely pushing your E2 way too high. Your doc will adjust your Test dosage depending on your blood tests but it's probably going to be in the 80-150mg's per week range not 400mg's per week.
Also forget the 22 gauge 1 1/4" harpoon for the thigh shots. 28-31 gauge .5cc 1/2" insulin syringes work better without the trauma and resulting scar tissue over time. You must dread those things! As long as a 28-31 gauge 1/2" can hit the muscle it will work. It just takes 2-3 minutes to draw it into from the bottle but only takes 10-20 seconds to inject. The .5cc allows twice weekly injections up to 100mg's per injection.
11-10-2012, 04:56 AM
It's been quite some time now since I was asking u folks the question in my original post. Again - thanks for all the replies. I just came to update my situation in regards to this. To recap - I had a blood test done where it showed my testosterone level of around 180 when the normal range was around 400 to 1100. Thats how the whole thing started.
It didn't surprise me that my level was so low because I felt so vital and alive in this way as a young man....& that feeling had disappeared long ago. I'm 59 now by the way & not a bodybuilder.
I have offered much more specific info in previous posts to my OP if anybody is interested in it.
I would assume most people don't want to read all that stuff & I don't blame them (although it would be really cool if somebody who is very knowledgeable about this stuff did read some of the previous info I supplied). I will try to include some of the basic info I supplied in my previous posts from around 8 months ago.
After I did go up in my dose quite a bit for a while.....I can't remember exactly how high I got up to....but around 450 mgs. a week I think of the injectable testosterone cypionate. My doc had started me on either 100mgs. or 150 mgs. once every two weeks.
When I was 28 I was in a brutal car accidnt as a passenger that shattered my femurs and made my lifestyle more sedentary....especially the last 10 years after I developed venous insufficiency in my lower legs & feet pretty bad (which I'm sure had to do with residual effects from the accident that just took some time to appear).
This also resulted in my having two bouts of extreme cellulitis where I had to be hospitalized for about 10 days each time to get I.V.'s of the most powerful antibiotics they have. And each time I had these I got a very bad ulcer wound that went almost all the way to the bone....once in the calf & once in my foot.
And after being out of the hospital each time I had to go to a wound clinic about every 10 days to have special bandages changed & replaced for about 4 or 5 months until the ulcers healed to the point they could. Knock on wood....I haven't developed another case of cellulits since & it's been about 7 years now since the last.
Also, when the venous insuffiency started up around 10 years ago.....I have been wearing medical prescription strong compression socks that come up to the knee & those really help the venous insuffiency. If I have them off too long....my feet and lower legs start to swell. By the way....the venous insuffiency was explained to me that the heart pumps the blood through the arteries & the veins bring it back....and now the valves in my lower legs & feet are broken & don't close when returning the blood as they should....which causes the swelling. And my lower legs & especially my feet look damaged.
Wow - sorry this is getting so long...but I figured if anybody reads this whole thing....the more I say about my health....the better replies I might get. So after doing the doc's suggestion for a couple of months & feeling absolutely no different....thats when I gradually got up to taking the amount I mentioed above.
I finally did go to an "Anylab" after I had been on the much higher dose for a while....& the results came back that now my testosterone level on that scale of around 400 to 1100 was at least 1500 (that was as high as the test would show a result for). So I did fess up to my doc that I had upped things quite a bit & he just told me to take 200 mgs. every 2 weeks....which I have now been doing for a few months. Just recently had labs drawn & now my testosterone level was 720.....basically in the middle of the normal range.
The STRANGE thing to me is that I have felt no difference from when I was at 180, over 1500, & now 720. And as one poster told me....u only can tell if it's working if you can "FEEL IT"....& I never have.
Also....over the last 6 months I have changed a couple of things big time. The venous insuffiency & cellulitis & I also have back issues from that accident.....had gradually changed me over the last 10 years from my lifetime average weight until then of 175 to 265. I drastically changed my diet (no sweets, lots of fruit & vegetables, nuts, fish, etc.) & since I have trouble with any weight bearing exercise.....I started swimming 6 days a week from 1 to 1 & 3/4 hours per day. At this point I've now gotten back to 200.....and working on getting back to around 180.
OH - one thing I don't know if I have mentioned b4 is that I got HEP C from the blood transfusions I had after the car accident in 1978. I'm a carrier of it....but I have not gotten sick from it. Although my liver & kidney tests are now for the 1st time out of the normal range I found out from the recent physical I had where I found my testosterone level back to 720.
Those tests came back as follows.
AST (SGOT) 49 & the reference range (RR) was 0-40 IU/L
ALT (SGPT) 72 & the RR was 0-55 IU/L
Creatinine Serum was O.70 & the RR was 0.76 to 1.27 mg./dL
BUN/Creatinine was 26 & the RR was 9-20
All the other blood & urine tests they do in a physical.....I was inside the RR.
My doc thinks these levels are due to the HEP C & I don't think he thinks they are real bad or anything like that yet....& I hope they don't gradually go that way. And by the way....my doc tells me there is now a treatment for HEP C which has had dramatic results. It is a combination of a drug u inject called Peginterferon combined with a drug u take called Ribavirin.
Many of the folks who have done this end up having no detectable HEP C in their bodies at all......which I guess means it can actually cure some people from the HEP C. The drawback - I researched it a bit & it looks like it costs around $20,000 or a bit more & I don't have health insurance or 20G laying around. Also, I think u can get some pretty bad side effects from this regime (I think u have to do in weekly or even shorter intervals for around a year or something like that).
OK - I know I gotta wrap this up. One thing I know. I don't feel different by injecting either a little or a lot of TC. I never grew man boobs or anything like that. I have noticed a few things that people have mentioned here that I'm curious to know what they are. And I thought I'd ask here b4 maybe researching some of this stuff on the net.
What are enanthe, E-2, and SHGB? Is it possible any of this stuff could help me? Since TC didn't bring back any of that "Vitality" I had when I was a younger man....is there anything else out there that anybody would recommend I try. I so miss that feeling of Vitality (sexuality) that I once had a lot of....& now don't have any of.
Should I still keep taking the TC so it stays in the normal range - even though I feel no effect whatsoever from it?
OK - Much thanks to anybody that may have read this really long post. And if anybody did read this thing.....any comments, suggestions, answers, etc., would be greatly appreciated. THANKS
01-21-2013, 12:08 PM
I am new to this site and a new patient to Hormone Replacement therapy. I'm 48 yrs old, 6' 1", 241 lbs. I'm in pretty good shape. I work out pretty much 5 times per week. Very active but my enegry level has gone down tremendously. A friend suggested I go see a Dr for this. A friend referred me to go she this Dr who will look at your blood work and see where I'm deficient. I went to the Dr and he did pretty extensive blood work. To make a long story short, he put me on Test Depo - 1 injection per week (Monday's, .65 cc/week, $90 for 3 months), HGH - 1 injection everyday (.20 ml daily, $2400 for 3 months), HCG - 1 injection per week (on Thursday's, 70 mgs/week, not sure the cost), Anastrazole - .5 mg twice per week, and a slew of supplements (Vit D3, Vit D, Vit K2, Omega 3, CoQ 10, melatonin, ecotrin, and about 7 other supplements. The entire regiment is costing me about $4000 every 3 months (they injections, $700 for blood work test, and supplements). I want to see first of all if this cost is normal and secondly does this seem to be the norm for what Anti-aging Dr's prescribe. I know obviously everyone's body is different so the numbers may be a little different but is the regiment similar?
01-22-2013, 08:37 AM
No that is not normal in any sense of the word and nothing but a money making scam. It's becoming clear to most people that there is a lot of money to make in anti-aging clinics and they are taking people to the poor house by preying on their desire to feel better.
I pay $5 (test prescription cost) every 3 months to feel better.
01-22-2013, 09:26 AM
01-22-2013, 09:38 AM
The first sign should be the fact that they are throwing everything possible at you and this would do nothing but add an enormous amount of variables if everything didn't magically work out. Just like any troubleshooting situation, it's always better to start with the least number of parts, supplements, additives, etc and add or take away as needed.
01-25-2013, 05:30 PM
01-27-2013, 09:04 PM
I have been injecting testosterone cypionate for 2 years. This practice has been managed under the care of a urologist who arranges for periodic blood testing. My hormone system is stable and well regulated. I inject 200 mgs once each week. I am 68 years old and the results are wonderful. Of course, I am very horney and very very hairy all over. But I was quite hairy to begin with. Be sure to supplement with DHEA and also take a nettle root extract to block the Sex Binding Globulin. I work out twice a week with resistence training for 90 minutes.
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