Are test injections affecting my mood changes where Testim didnt???

[Presa]

In the past several years, I have switched back and forth between Testim and Test cypionate injections. My last protocol was .5cc/100mg of cypionate on Sunday night and Thursday morning. I liked the ease and low cost of the injections as opposed to spreading Testim on every single day; not to mention the extra cost of Testim.

However, my girlfriend has complained that in the last year of doing the injections, I have been more moody and on edge some days. So, about two weeks ago, I switched back to the last box of Testim I still had on hand. I have to admit that I actually “feel” better and more calm overall. I get a blood test on 3/1, so I will know what my level is at with the Testim this last month (it was previously 585 with Testim). It was hovering around 700 with the injections.

My question is: Is this all in my head (her head too!) or could the injections, and the spikes they cause, just not be right for me???? My Urologist says shots and gels are the same essentially, only a different delivery system for test. Opinions?!?!?!?!? Anyone have mood spikes or irritability on the injections???

 

[The Matrix]

In the past several years, I have switched back and forth between Testim and Test cypionate injections. My last protocol was .5cc/100mg of cypionate on Sunday night and Thursday morning. I liked the ease and low cost of the injections as opposed to spreading Testim on every single day; not to mention the extra cost of Testim.

However, my girlfriend has complained that in the last year of doing the injections, I have been more moody and on edge some days. So, about two weeks ago, I switched back to the last box of Testim I still had on hand. I have to admit that I actually “feel” better and more calm overall. I get a blood test on 3/1, so I will know what my level is at with the Testim this last month (it was previously 585 with Testim). It was hovering around 700 with the injections.

My question is: Is this all in my head (her head too!) or could the injections, and the spikes they cause, just not be right for me???? My Urologist says shots and gels are the same essentially, only a different delivery system for test. Opinions?!?!?!?!? Anyone have mood spikes or irritability on the injections???

Where was your e2 . SHBG, DHT.

 

[Presa]

Where was your e2 . SHBG, DHT.

I dont recall the exact numbers, but the last lab report indicated within range (not high or low).

 

[The Matrix]

I dont recall the exact numbers, but the last lab report indicated within range (not high or low).

This is invalid information tells me nothing. One needs exact numbers..

 

[Presa]

This is invalid information tells me nothing. One needs exact numbers..

Nevermind Matrix......... I simply wanted to know if the use of bi-weekly injections could cause mood changes where as the daily gel application would not. To me, there is an obvious difference between the daily small dose of gel versus the two .5cc doses of test cyp.


Has any other perosn on TRT/HRT experienced this or is it specific to my metabolism.

 

[Gutterpump]

I feel smoothest when on gels/creams. More DHT less E2, that's why it's like that for me.

But, lowering E2 too much will also make you real moody/snappy, since dopamine will be very high and serotonin too low.

 

[The Matrix]

Nevermind Matrix......... I simply wanted to know if the use of bi-weekly injections could cause mood changes where as the daily gel application would not. To me, there is an obvious difference between the daily small dose of gel versus the two .5cc doses of test cyp.


Has any other perosn on TRT/HRT experienced this or is it specific to my metabolism.

200 mgs of Injection no matter amount of gel could not even get close to the peak levels of that unless doing 200 mg/ml BID which only going to cause DHT issues and not suggestable or medically justifiable.

One also can do T injections very similar to HCG on a daily basis as well. My concern with all this injection is scar tissue build up similar to diabetics get over prolonged injectioning. Why I prefer 2 times a week injection instead with insulin pin works perfect.

 

[Gutterpump]

I've been trying something different, and tweaking things as I go. Doing shots very often also bothers me.

Right now I take an 80mg shot once per week, and then use transdermal DHEA daily in the am to make up for the extra test. I'm using 4 pumps of Transaderm on my upper back/shoulders. With this protocol, I've hardly needed any AI and I'm usually needing a lot even on creams.

 

[The Matrix]

I've been trying something different, and tweaking things as I go. Doing shots very often also bothers me.

Right now I take an 80mg shot once per week, and then use transdermal DHEA daily in the am to make up for the extra test. I'm using 4 pumps of Transaderm on my upper back/shoulders. With this protocol, I've hardly needed any AI and I'm usually needing a lot even on creams.

More is not better learning to optimize what you have by dealing with other imbalances is the solution. I have been saying this for years !! People are not getting this and ending making matters worse.trying to manipulate too many things when its probably something simple

 

[Gutterpump]

Oh, well I wanted to combine shots with TD, but also increase DHEA, so instead of using just enough to backfill DHEA, I'm using less t-cyp and a little extra TD DHEA for the test increase. On cyp alone, my DHT is too low, but I have less sides when I use a combination of both (no acne, less e2, etc).

Btw, 4 pumps of the TD dhea I'm using is only 75mg of DHEA. Combined with the 80mg of t-cyp and conversion rate of TD dhea to test, that's much less than 200mg of T per week.

 

[The Matrix]

Oh, well I wanted to combine shots with TD, but also increase DHEA, so instead of using just enough to backfill DHEA, I'm using less t-cyp and a little extra TD DHEA for the test increase. On cyp alone, my DHT is too low, but I have less sides when I use a combination of both (no acne, less e2, etc).

Btw, 4 pumps of the TD dhea I'm using is only 75mg of DHEA. Combined with the 80mg of t-cyp and conversion rate of TD dhea to test, that's much less than 200mg of T per week.

They complement each other we have known this for long time, I have blood test to prove it from adding in DHEA TD my IGF doubled. I knew this 5 years back..Lets drugs the better, I am also having people explore some new concepts I have been working on to help get a more indept look at the picture which has been a huge part of the equation for some, but others totally look it.

 

[Gutterpump]

I agree the less required, the better. But since we all need DHEA supplementation while on TRT (and my DHEA was below normal before TRT), I think this is a good solution for me to get part of my test through a weekly shot, and the rest through daily applications of TD DHEA.

 

[The Matrix]

I agree the less required, the better. But since we all need DHEA supplementation while on TRT (and my DHEA was below normal before TRT), I think this is a good solution for me to get part of my test through a weekly shot, and the rest through daily applications of TD DHEA.

I do see this trend in majority of men on HRT who have lowered DHEA-S after 8-12 weeks after starting. Now the question is get a DHEA 24 hour urine to see if you are absorbing the stuff. I went to sublingual DHEA and getting better results then creams. No cream was able to push through my skin NONE !!

After years of doing this I have learned to stream line things for Drs to get down potential issues which are causing the problem in the first place. With proper testing once I get the results may take me a few hours to a week or more to come up with a medical sound reason to present to the Dr. New people coming in <35 put through proper testing then if imbalances are found they are corrected then in 4 months they are revisit to see if they have helped. If not then HRT is implemented. Its that simple. This is why I like to deal with fresh people who are coming from open minded Dr's there are less variables to contend with. People coming on HRT <35, same test are ran. Once imbalance are found and can validate why there testosterone is low 4 months later, if all lights are green and <35 of years and they do not want to do HRT then a restart is commenced. Some time just making the changes will result in the desired effect.

 

[Gutterpump]

Yeah I need to get labs to see where this is putting me. I know I absorb though. When I was on 20% compounded plo-gel my test was really high in the 1500's, DHT in the 90's, everything high, so I must've been absorbing it fairly well.

I could swear you've used TD DHEA with good results though. You used to talk about PP's Dermacrine in the past. I remember you saying that a standard dose made you feel like your E2 raised too much (like a steroid dose you said), and that 2 pumps of their product worked well for you instead.

 

[The Matrix]

Yeah I need to get labs to see where this is putting me. I know I absorb though. When I was on 20% compounded plo-gel my test was really high in the 1500's, DHT in the 90's, everything high, so I must've been absorbing it fairly well.

I could swear you've used TD DHEA with good results though. You used to talk about PP's Dermacrine in the past. I remember you saying that a standard dose made you feel like your E2 raised too much (like a steroid dose you said), and that 2 pumps of their product worked well for you instead.

Yes 2 pumps did, but that was on the orginal forumula, it has been such changed. I tried both of them and did not get the same response even when all the variables where the same. Right now I am working on boosting catecholamines, gi, and liver which will put another finally piece to the puzzle to optimizing my health. Thyroid, adrenals, are now restored. My main focus is finding out why this is ocurring and dealing with it at the root cause. I have people get intracellular testing done then correspond the symptoms to the finding. It matches up about 90% of the time. I love it when you have a person who has been on HRT on gels who is only testing 230. The Dr pulls him hes at TT 200 for 2 months then 4 weeks later hes hitting 550 no being on HRT. Mind this guy was 43 LOL. The endo was sitting there scratching his head. Endo's was asking he was doing differently. When his patient replies "I have been going to see some one who specializes in nutritional intervention into health issues where he works with other medical professionals. Guy told there was dead silence..LOL

 

[Gutterpump]

Haha nice!
230 TT while on TRT is super low. Must've been on 5gram gel and been a fast metabolizer as well, or just wasn't absorbing. People with absorption issues should try on the forearms, tops of feet and nads, works like a charm wherever veins are most visible / skin is thinnest. But of course, finding out the source of the issue is always the best option. Unfortunately I've been on TRT for ~3 years straight now, so stopping is not an option for me anymore.

 

[Presa]

Haha nice!
230 TT while on TRT is super low. Must've been on 5gram gel and been a fast metabolizer as well, or just wasn't absorbing. People with absorption issues should try on the forearms, tops of feet and nads, works like a charm wherever veins are most visible / skin is thinnest. But of course, finding out the source of the issue is always the best option. Unfortunately I've been on TRT for ~3 years straight now, so stopping is not an option for me anymore.

Top of your feet? Serious? Hmm? Makes sense. I remember finding a chart on the net one time that had an average skin thickness of the different parts of the body. But, I haven't been able to find it again. Think it would be helpful for gel application??????

 

[The Matrix]

Top of your feet? Serious? Hmm? Makes sense. I remember finding a chart on the net one time that had an average skin thickness of the different parts of the body. But, I haven't been able to find it again. Think it would be helpful for gel application??????

Thinniest part of your skin or under neath your arm pits flanks is another good place. NAD will result in higher DHT, I suggest the nuts when DHT levels are low. Just small applicaton to the balls does wonders for DHT.

 

[Gutterpump]

Matrix is right.

Also, tops of feet and forearms are good but since there is almost no fat and the veins are literally right there, it will hit your bloodstream very quickly as opposed to sitting in the subQ resevoir, absorbing overtime as was meant to be with creams/gels.

 

[grngoloco]

Someone mentioned to me once that adding dhea can increase gyno??? Any truth to this,,, fyi I am above and beyond normal trt levels

 

[The Matrix]

Someone mentioned to me once that adding dhea can increase gyno??? Any truth to this,,, fyi I am above and beyond normal trt levels

Its all about how it responds to your body and the hormonal cascade as well as the delivery system. Proper hormones need to be monitored for down streams.

 

[Gutterpump]

Taking dhea orally will generally cause more of it to convert to E2.

 

[The Matrix]

Taking dhea orally will generally cause more of it to convert to E2.

thats the point I was trying to make.
Gutter did your DHEA-S serum go up at all with TD? I have found studies saying they should with TD DHEA.

 

[Gutterpump]

I'm getting new labs soon. Not sure yet.

I apply 3 of the pumps to my upper back and one pump to my forearms though. If what I know about how enzymes in the skin works, the pumps on my upper back will mostly be converted to test, while the one on the forearm should enter the bloodstream mostly as DHEA, since the forearms don't hold any if much of the enzymes needed to convert dhea to test or other metabolites.

 

[The Matrix]

I'm getting new labs soon. Not sure yet.

I apply 3 of the pumps to my upper back and one pump to my forearms though. If what I know about how enzymes in the skin works, the pumps on my upper back will mostly be converted to test, while the one on the forearm should enter the bloodstream mostly as DHEA, since the forearms don't hold any if much of the enzymes needed to convert dhea to test or other metabolites.

You find an open minded Dr in Canada that may be willing to work in tandem with me let me know. I have a mess load of guys who are looking for a good one..

 

[Gutterpump]

Oh I'm still in NYC, renewed my work visa. I've still yet to find an open minded doc in the city here, but there is a clinic upstate NY that I'm in touch with.

If/when I return back, I'll be in Toronto though, and looking!