Low FSH, Low-normal Test, Low libido, ED Problems

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  1. I am 23. I don't get them regularly, I just remember getting 1-2 when I started clomid, and in the past before I had these problems occasionally if I went a while without having an orgasm.

    Update: Anyways, earlier this week I was able to successfully masturbate without cialis. I also had to stay up pretty late a few nights and noticed some random erections at night. I had trouble getting hard when I tried to masturbate during the day however, i don't know if this means anything.

    Last night I returned home and got to see my GF, at first I wasn't really getting hard to the point where I had to say "this might not work" but eventually it got hard enough to put it in... it wasn't a very quality erection though (no cialis used). My appointment with my doctor for a physical and to talk about these issues (and hopefully get my prostate checked out) is on Tuesday.


  2. UPDATE

    Went to finally talk to my primary care doctor about these issues today, and get a physical. The physical went well, blood pressure was good at 114/64 so that rules out that as being the culprit of the ED.

    I told her about my concerns about my prostate health as well, and she gave me a rectal exam and said that my prostate felt normal to her. She also said she would add PSA to my bloodwork (which I'm going back to get done later this week), but she knew that it was a somewhat unreliable measure and was aware of the controversy/debate surrounding using that measure.

    She also referred me to a urologist (Which i will likely not be able to see until early June). She said she expected my bloodwork would come back normal but she said it was good to use it to rule causes out. I did not share with her that I had gotten "under the table" bloodwork done (as chronicled throughout this thread). This is what is listed for on the lab work order:

    CBC with automated differential
    Comprehensive metabolic panel with GFR
    Thyroid Stimulating Hormone (TSH)
    Testosterone, Male >19, Total
    Urinalysis & cult if indicated
    HIV 1 and 2 Screening
    Prostate Specific Antigen (PSA)

    So i will be getting those things tested this week. I have never gotten TSH and PSA tested before, is there anything I need to do/avoid doing in order to ensure as accurate measures as possible? For some reason, it seems like she is not testing Estradiol, FSH, or LH levels, so she will not see what I would expect to be low FSH and LH levels (look back at my bloodwork). She most likely will see that my testosterone falls in the low-normal to low range (assuming it has fallen off a bit since discontinuing clomid). I'm not overly concerned about the lack of FSH and LH as I feel like a urologist would run more comprehensive tests once I go see him. It's just unfortunate I won't be able to do so until June.

    So any new input given this new information?
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by TML499 View Post
    UPDATE

    Went to finally talk to my primary care doctor about these issues today, and get a physical. The physical went well, blood pressure was good at 114/64 so that rules out that as being the culprit of the ED.

    I told her about my concerns about my prostate health as well, and she gave me a rectal exam and said that my prostate felt normal to her. She also said she would add PSA to my bloodwork (which I'm going back to get done later this week), but she knew that it was a somewhat unreliable measure and was aware of the controversy/debate surrounding using that measure.

    She also referred me to a urologist (Which i will likely not be able to see until early June). She said she expected my bloodwork would come back normal but she said it was good to use it to rule causes out. I did not share with her that I had gotten "under the table" bloodwork done (as chronicled throughout this thread). This is what is listed for on the lab work order:

    CBC with automated differential
    Comprehensive metabolic panel with GFR
    Thyroid Stimulating Hormone (TSH)
    Testosterone, Male >19, Total
    Urinalysis & cult if indicated
    HIV 1 and 2 Screening
    Prostate Specific Antigen (PSA)

    So i will be getting those things tested this week. I have never gotten TSH and PSA tested before, is there anything I need to do/avoid doing in order to ensure as accurate measures as possible? For some reason, it seems like she is not testing Estradiol, FSH, or LH levels, so she will not see what I would expect to be low FSH and LH levels (look back at my bloodwork). She most likely will see that my testosterone falls in the low-normal to low range (assuming it has fallen off a bit since discontinuing clomid). I'm not overly concerned about the lack of FSH and LH as I feel like a urologist would run more comprehensive tests once I go see him. It's just unfortunate I won't be able to do so until June.

    So any new input given this new information?
    Where are you located at so we can get you some good help I have a whole list of Dr's I can refer you too which will be glad to help.
    This test are very vague and will not show anything signifcant.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.

  4. Quote Originally Posted by The Matrix View Post
    Where are you located at so we can get you some good help I have a whole list of Dr's I can refer you too which will be glad to help.
    This test are very vague and will not show anything signifcant.
    Your private message box is full.

  5. Update: I got the test results back from the doctor. I viewed them online so I have only seen the values, not talked to my doctor about them yet. My total test came in at 182 which seems very strange. I did get the test done at 3pm if this could be affecting it. But this would indicate that my test fell from 640 to 182 after 3 weeks of discontinuing the clomid, which I find strange because the last time I discontinued torem my test only fell from what I felt was likely pretty high (no bloodwork but it felt like I know 700ish test to feel like now) to 380 in 1 month and then only to 350 3 weeks after that. So either something is incorrect, or the run of clomid made me worse off in the end? I am thinking about going to do a labcorp retest on tuesday morning to see if I am actually this low.

    In the meantime, I am scheduling an appointment with a urologist my doctor referred me to for early in june.

    Some values (no fsh, lh, or e2 taken unfortunately)
    Test: 182 (160-728)
    TSH: 0.59 (.34-4.82)
    PSA: 0.51 (0.0-4.0)

    Where to go from here?
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by TML499 View Post
    Update: I got the test results back from the doctor. I viewed them online so I have only seen the values, not talked to my doctor about them yet. My total test came in at 182 which seems very strange. I did get the test done at 3pm if this could be affecting it. But this would indicate that my test fell from 640 to 182 after 3 weeks of discontinuing the clomid, which I find strange because the last time I discontinued torem my test only fell from what I felt was likely pretty high (no bloodwork but it felt like I know 700ish test to feel like now) to 380 in 1 month and then only to 350 3 weeks after that. So either something is incorrect, or the run of clomid made me worse off in the end? I am thinking about going to do a labcorp retest on tuesday morning to see if I am actually this low.

    In the meantime, I am scheduling an appointment with a urologist my doctor referred me to for early in june.

    Some values (no fsh, lh, or e2 taken unfortunately)
    Test: 182 (160-728)
    TSH: 0.59 (.34-4.82)
    PSA: 0.51 (0.0-4.0)

    Where to go from here?
    I had many cases similar to yours from Dr's who have failed the clomid challenge. Once we went back and revisit other issues and imbalances which were never addressed in the first place. 4 months later they were able to hold no problem. Some people need clomid to keep the signal going. As I tell people if you are going to build a mansion you need a strong foundation other wise it will crumble. This is why people on clomid fail, lack of the strong foundation ..
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by The Matrix View Post
    I had many cases similar to yours from Dr's who have failed the clomid challenge. Once we went back and revisit other issues and imbalances which were never addressed in the first place. 4 months later they were able to hold no problem. Some people need clomid to keep the signal going. As I tell people if you are going to build a mansion you need a strong foundation other wise it will crumble. This is why people on clomid fail, lack of the strong foundation ..
    Why would my numbers be even worse than before the clomid though? I mean 380 isn't that terrible of a test number, but 180 is pretty awful.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by TML499 View Post
    Why would my numbers be even worse than before the clomid though? I mean 380 isn't that terrible of a test number, but 180 is pretty awful.
    Because you need to keep the signal going...Again you probably are missing some part of the foundation to keep it from crumbling which it did do..
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.

  9. Quote Originally Posted by The Matrix View Post
    Because you need to keep the signal going...Again you probably are missing some part of the foundation to keep it from crumbling which it did do..
    Yeah but I was "signaling" for 350-380 test before the clomid. That's why it surprises me that when the signaling stopped it dropped to 180 instead of just reverting back to 350 or so where it was.

  10. Quote Originally Posted by TML499 View Post
    Yeah but I was "signaling" for 350-380 test before the clomid. That's why it surprises me that when the signaling stopped it dropped to 180 instead of just reverting back to 350 or so where it was.
    I have many talents and mind reading is not one of them. There are could be million reason why it happen, which all trigger the same the response - STRESS. A good health professional usually spends an hour with you going over this information looking for reason. There is no way to do it in the few sentence through a forum. One would be surprised when people put up labs and hope to find the right answer unfortunately with out the proper back ground, detailed information it will make it impossible as well as potentially dangerous. When proper information is known it can change the whole out come of how proper protocols are suggested and carried out. I fell victim to this several times and ended up almost killing me this is why I am highly cautious about not making direct suggestions to do with out some conclusive data. What I am doing is protecting people from going down the wrong pathways as I have which a few times ended me up in ER or on the brink of total self destruction from following what some idiot on line was telling me not knowing my full case history. So If I give vague answers and more informational based NOW you know why...
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.

  11. Quote Originally Posted by The Matrix View Post
    I had many cases similar to yours from Dr's who have failed the clomid challenge. Once we went back and revisit other issues and imbalances which were never addressed in the first place. 4 months later they were able to hold no problem. Some people need clomid to keep the signal going. As I tell people if you are going to build a mansion you need a strong foundation other wise it will crumble. This is why people on clomid fail, lack of the strong foundation ..

    Ok, I've read this entire thread, as well as other articles and forum threads online. I am in the same situations level wise, and on clomid (various doses over a year's period). I would truly like to know what your response means. Can you be specific in the strong foundation you are referring to? And what constitutes failing the clomid challenge? Also, any particular issues and imbalances I should get looked at. I do feel I've tried everything, which is why I am asking. And I apologize if I seem to be missing something. It's just that your post has references to things I have not run across in my other research, nor in my talks with my doctors (yes plural...it's been five now, I think).

    Thank you. I'm trying to figure out anything I can to get myself back to "normal".

  12. Quote Originally Posted by GJohn View Post
    Ok, I've read this entire thread, as well as other articles and forum threads online. I am in the same situations level wise, and on clomid (various doses over a year's period). I would truly like to know what your response means. Can you be specific in the strong foundation you are referring to? And what constitutes failing the clomid challenge? Also, any particular issues and imbalances I should get looked at. I do feel I've tried everything, which is why I am asking. And I apologize if I seem to be missing something. It's just that your post has references to things I have not run across in my other research, nor in my talks with my doctors (yes plural...it's been five now, I think).

    Thank you. I'm trying to figure out anything I can to get myself back to "normal".
    You need to look at the whole biology and neurology,and hidden stressors of the person. As many are finding out you eat a great diet, but when properly testing you are lacking majority of the building blocks to make hormones in the first or do not have proper cell signaling capabilities. Again this very common in people "I eat a great diet how can I be low in anything" It goes back to a simple statement. "we are not what we eat, but what we metabolize, assimilate and eliminate. Why I do is find these missing parts of the puzzle and imbalances by working along with medical professionals which give me the ability to further investigation. Clomid challenge is to see if you can at least get an increase in double or more from baseline. 5 doctors is nothing average cases I work on from Dr's are >20 medical professionals over a course of >5 years. Reason you have not come across it because I am probably one who have came up with these protocols and have case studies from Dr's to validate them. This is why the future of medicine is integrative medicine. Many Dr's are just skimming the top, I work with the system not against it. If you PM me your location I may provide you medical professionals in your area I may know who may be able to help ..
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.

  13. Quote Originally Posted by The Matrix View Post
    I have many talents and mind reading is not one of them. There are could be million reason why it happen, which all trigger the same the response - STRESS. A good health professional usually spends an hour with you going over this information looking for reason. There is no way to do it in the few sentence through a forum. One would be surprised when people put up labs and hope to find the right answer unfortunately with out the proper back ground, detailed information it will make it impossible as well as potentially dangerous. When proper information is known it can change the whole out come of how proper protocols are suggested and carried out. I fell victim to this several times and ended up almost killing me this is why I am highly cautious about not making direct suggestions to do with out some conclusive data. What I am doing is protecting people from going down the wrong pathways as I have which a few times ended me up in ER or on the brink of total self destruction from following what some idiot on line was telling me not knowing my full case history. So If I give vague answers and more informational based NOW you know why...
    Yeah, i suppose that was really more of a rhetorical question, just me thinking out loud. Well I got a message from my doctor saying my labs are all "essentially normal" and I should go see the urologist like we had planned on. I kind of expected that and I didn't expect any real help until that visit again.

    I'll update again after i get more bloodwork this week or next at private md labs. Then I will have to decide what to do until June when I can see a urologist (take nothing, take clomid at 12.5 eod, etc)

  14. Quote Originally Posted by TML499 View Post
    Yeah, i suppose that was really more of a rhetorical question, just me thinking out loud. Well I got a message from my doctor saying my labs are all "essentially normal" and I should go see the urologist like we had planned on. I kind of expected that and I didn't expect any real help until that visit again.

    I'll update again after i get more bloodwork this week or next at private md labs. Then I will have to decide what to do until June when I can see a urologist (take nothing, take clomid at 12.5 eod, etc)
    Normal does not = Healthy in majority of cases.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.

  15. It seems until I have posted five more times after this time, I can't send PMs. Hmmm.

  16. Still unable to.

  17. keep bumping
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.

  18. I shall do that. I appreciate the information in this post, as well as in the entire forum.

    How's that?

  19. Quote Originally Posted by GJohn View Post
    I shall do that. I appreciate the information in this post, as well as in the entire forum.

    How's that?
    BUMP ...easy as 1,2,3
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.

  20. I know. I was kidding.

  21. UPDATE:

    Yesterday I went in to LabCorp to get bloods done again, exactly 2 weeks after i got a reading of test = 182 from my primary care doctor at about 4 in the afternoon. I went in at 10am, when I normally wake up, and got the following (more expected) readings:

    Test: 362 (348-1197, although my doctor has this range as like 162-680)
    LH: 1.0 (1.7-8.6)
    FSH: 0.6 (1.5-12.4)
    Estradiol: 20.0 (7.6-42.6)

    Some other numbers that were a bit off, and have sometimes been similarly off in past bloodworks and sometimes within range. If I recall someone told me that some of these could be due to dehydration.
    Bilirubin: 1.3 (0-1.2)
    BUN: 23 (6-20)
    RBC: 5.62 (4.10-5.60)
    Hemoglobin: 17.1 (12.5-17.0)

    As you can see from looking back at past bloodwork, these numbers fall within my typical no-serm baseline. Test between 340 and 400, LH around 1 or slightly above, FSH between 0.5 and 1. So I think it is obvious that I am secondary hypogonadic, as I still barely fall in the normal range of T with very low amounts of LH and FSH. When I run clomid, my LH increases to between 5-9, FSH goes up to around 1.3-1.4 near the very bottom of the range, and Test goes to 600-750, with Estradiol creeping up towards the top of the range. These results have been consistent while blood is drawn at baseline and at the end of a serm run. So I have been able to boost these numbers temporarily with clomid but they revert back to my secondary hypo baseline after administration ceases. The mystery here is why my pituitary is not secreting more LH and FSH.

    One observation I can make: Bringing my vitamin D levels from below range at 25 (30-100) to ~50 or more did not seem to affect my baseline levels of LH, FSH, or Testosterone.

    Another observation I can make: These baseline numbers were where they were after my very first cycle (I've done 3, all PHs). I waited 10 weeks after the end of my first PCT (legit nolva) to get tested and had similar numbers (despite feeling recovered at the end of PCT). Surprisingly, my first cycle either seems to have caused this issue, or I had it beforehand. This is surprising because my 2nd and 3rd cycles were longer/harsher, and they do not seem to have made the condition any/much worse.

    Anecdotally, I haven't been that bad recently. Energy is lowish but I'm not constantly tired or anything, I might not even notice anything if I didn't have bloods. In the gym, strength, size, and muscular endurance fell slightly after coming off the clomid, but nothing drastic. Libido has been very minimal BUT existent (which I will consider a success for now). I have been using cialis with the lady so it's hard to tell if the ED is still an issue, but 6-9mg gets me hard as a rock even when i've had drinks. I also had a good quality erection about 3.5 days after my last administration of cialis this week (won't be seeing the gf again for a while), so I have hope that my guy can stand to attention normally. Still getting morning chubbys with the occasional morning erection. Ejaculatory volume has seemed about normal recently (although not clomid levels), and orgasms are not nearly as strong as they were on clomid (or before I had this issue if I remember correctly).

    So now it is an issue of where do I go from here? I am going to be seeing a urologist covered by my insurance in early-mid June. That leaves me with 8-10 weeks. Should I take nothing at all and see what my body does naturally over this time period? Should I run clomid or nolva again at a low dosage (i.e. 12.5mg EOD) to see what kind of levels I can achieve with this dosage, and also to improve well-being and gym performance while I wait for June?

    When I see the urologist, I am going to request a full hormone panel (not like the one I get at LabCorp or the half-assed one my doctor did) and a scan of the pituitary (these seem like obvious choices). What other tests should I ask him about running to try and get to the cause of this? What do I need to get looked at to get a complete picture? I am not going to be willing to go on TRT (at least not until all other options are completely exhausted). I was thinking maybe a nutrient panel, or some tests relating to GI integrity? (I realized I never mentioned that I have diarrhea quite often, but I assumed that was normal for high protein diets). Please advise what tests are important, and what route you think I should take until the appointment in June?

  22. With out optimal vitamin. D a e clomid will not be able to work.to its full potential. Again indentify other imbalance with in the body so you have a better chance of keeping the ball going rather then crashing

    How can you build a mansion with out a strong base. It will just crumble like it just did..
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.

  23. Quote Originally Posted by The Matrix View Post
    With out optimal vitamin. D a e clomid will not be able to work.to its full potential. Again indentify other imbalance with in the body so you have a better chance of keeping the ball going rather then crashing

    How can you build a mansion with out a strong base. It will just crumble like it just did..
    I know that but I don't really have the funds to do tests on my D, A, and E levels until I get them ordered by a urologist/doctor (Is this what I would find out if I got a vitamin/nutrient panel like I mentioned? Can you tell me more about these tests? and also tests to determine GI integrity?). I wouldn't expect levels to hold after a 12.5mg EOD run of clomid, so it would mainly be to increase well-being in the meantime until I can get in to the urologist in June. Do you see any problem with doing that?

  24. Quote Originally Posted by TML499 View Post
    I know that but I don't really have the funds to do tests on my D, A, and E levels until I get them ordered by a urologist/doctor (Is this what I would find out if I got a vitamin/nutrient panel like I mentioned? Can you tell me more about these tests? and also tests to determine GI integrity?). I wouldn't expect levels to hold after a 12.5mg EOD run of clomid, so it would mainly be to increase well-being in the meantime until I can get in to the urologist in June. Do you see any problem with doing that?
    If it aint broke do not fix it...
    identifying GI integrity can be challenging and can elude medical professionals for years until alternative testing is done. If people have issues and can not afford then I go by symptoms. It makes it more of a challenge, but not impossible. Some people who do not have insurance, you find ways around getting the proper information needed. If they have access to open minded Dr's then I use them to help execute proper testing.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.

  25. Bump
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