Low FSH, Low-normal Test, Low libido, ED Problems

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by TML499 View Post
    Update: I got the test results back from the doctor. I viewed them online so I have only seen the values, not talked to my doctor about them yet. My total test came in at 182 which seems very strange. I did get the test done at 3pm if this could be affecting it. But this would indicate that my test fell from 640 to 182 after 3 weeks of discontinuing the clomid, which I find strange because the last time I discontinued torem my test only fell from what I felt was likely pretty high (no bloodwork but it felt like I know 700ish test to feel like now) to 380 in 1 month and then only to 350 3 weeks after that. So either something is incorrect, or the run of clomid made me worse off in the end? I am thinking about going to do a labcorp retest on tuesday morning to see if I am actually this low.

    In the meantime, I am scheduling an appointment with a urologist my doctor referred me to for early in june.

    Some values (no fsh, lh, or e2 taken unfortunately)
    Test: 182 (160-728)
    TSH: 0.59 (.34-4.82)
    PSA: 0.51 (0.0-4.0)

    Where to go from here?
    I had many cases similar to yours from Dr's who have failed the clomid challenge. Once we went back and revisit other issues and imbalances which were never addressed in the first place. 4 months later they were able to hold no problem. Some people need clomid to keep the signal going. As I tell people if you are going to build a mansion you need a strong foundation other wise it will crumble. This is why people on clomid fail, lack of the strong foundation ..
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.


  2. Quote Originally Posted by The Matrix View Post
    I had many cases similar to yours from Dr's who have failed the clomid challenge. Once we went back and revisit other issues and imbalances which were never addressed in the first place. 4 months later they were able to hold no problem. Some people need clomid to keep the signal going. As I tell people if you are going to build a mansion you need a strong foundation other wise it will crumble. This is why people on clomid fail, lack of the strong foundation ..
    Why would my numbers be even worse than before the clomid though? I mean 380 isn't that terrible of a test number, but 180 is pretty awful.
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by TML499 View Post
    Why would my numbers be even worse than before the clomid though? I mean 380 isn't that terrible of a test number, but 180 is pretty awful.
    Because you need to keep the signal going...Again you probably are missing some part of the foundation to keep it from crumbling which it did do..
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.

  4. Quote Originally Posted by The Matrix View Post
    Because you need to keep the signal going...Again you probably are missing some part of the foundation to keep it from crumbling which it did do..
    Yeah but I was "signaling" for 350-380 test before the clomid. That's why it surprises me that when the signaling stopped it dropped to 180 instead of just reverting back to 350 or so where it was.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by TML499 View Post
    Yeah but I was "signaling" for 350-380 test before the clomid. That's why it surprises me that when the signaling stopped it dropped to 180 instead of just reverting back to 350 or so where it was.
    I have many talents and mind reading is not one of them. There are could be million reason why it happen, which all trigger the same the response - STRESS. A good health professional usually spends an hour with you going over this information looking for reason. There is no way to do it in the few sentence through a forum. One would be surprised when people put up labs and hope to find the right answer unfortunately with out the proper back ground, detailed information it will make it impossible as well as potentially dangerous. When proper information is known it can change the whole out come of how proper protocols are suggested and carried out. I fell victim to this several times and ended up almost killing me this is why I am highly cautious about not making direct suggestions to do with out some conclusive data. What I am doing is protecting people from going down the wrong pathways as I have which a few times ended me up in ER or on the brink of total self destruction from following what some idiot on line was telling me not knowing my full case history. So If I give vague answers and more informational based NOW you know why...
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by The Matrix View Post
    I had many cases similar to yours from Dr's who have failed the clomid challenge. Once we went back and revisit other issues and imbalances which were never addressed in the first place. 4 months later they were able to hold no problem. Some people need clomid to keep the signal going. As I tell people if you are going to build a mansion you need a strong foundation other wise it will crumble. This is why people on clomid fail, lack of the strong foundation ..

    Ok, I've read this entire thread, as well as other articles and forum threads online. I am in the same situations level wise, and on clomid (various doses over a year's period). I would truly like to know what your response means. Can you be specific in the strong foundation you are referring to? And what constitutes failing the clomid challenge? Also, any particular issues and imbalances I should get looked at. I do feel I've tried everything, which is why I am asking. And I apologize if I seem to be missing something. It's just that your post has references to things I have not run across in my other research, nor in my talks with my doctors (yes plural...it's been five now, I think).

    Thank you. I'm trying to figure out anything I can to get myself back to "normal".

  7. Quote Originally Posted by GJohn View Post
    Ok, I've read this entire thread, as well as other articles and forum threads online. I am in the same situations level wise, and on clomid (various doses over a year's period). I would truly like to know what your response means. Can you be specific in the strong foundation you are referring to? And what constitutes failing the clomid challenge? Also, any particular issues and imbalances I should get looked at. I do feel I've tried everything, which is why I am asking. And I apologize if I seem to be missing something. It's just that your post has references to things I have not run across in my other research, nor in my talks with my doctors (yes plural...it's been five now, I think).

    Thank you. I'm trying to figure out anything I can to get myself back to "normal".
    You need to look at the whole biology and neurology,and hidden stressors of the person. As many are finding out you eat a great diet, but when properly testing you are lacking majority of the building blocks to make hormones in the first or do not have proper cell signaling capabilities. Again this very common in people "I eat a great diet how can I be low in anything" It goes back to a simple statement. "we are not what we eat, but what we metabolize, assimilate and eliminate. Why I do is find these missing parts of the puzzle and imbalances by working along with medical professionals which give me the ability to further investigation. Clomid challenge is to see if you can at least get an increase in double or more from baseline. 5 doctors is nothing average cases I work on from Dr's are >20 medical professionals over a course of >5 years. Reason you have not come across it because I am probably one who have came up with these protocols and have case studies from Dr's to validate them. This is why the future of medicine is integrative medicine. Many Dr's are just skimming the top, I work with the system not against it. If you PM me your location I may provide you medical professionals in your area I may know who may be able to help ..
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by The Matrix View Post
    I have many talents and mind reading is not one of them. There are could be million reason why it happen, which all trigger the same the response - STRESS. A good health professional usually spends an hour with you going over this information looking for reason. There is no way to do it in the few sentence through a forum. One would be surprised when people put up labs and hope to find the right answer unfortunately with out the proper back ground, detailed information it will make it impossible as well as potentially dangerous. When proper information is known it can change the whole out come of how proper protocols are suggested and carried out. I fell victim to this several times and ended up almost killing me this is why I am highly cautious about not making direct suggestions to do with out some conclusive data. What I am doing is protecting people from going down the wrong pathways as I have which a few times ended me up in ER or on the brink of total self destruction from following what some idiot on line was telling me not knowing my full case history. So If I give vague answers and more informational based NOW you know why...
    Yeah, i suppose that was really more of a rhetorical question, just me thinking out loud. Well I got a message from my doctor saying my labs are all "essentially normal" and I should go see the urologist like we had planned on. I kind of expected that and I didn't expect any real help until that visit again.

    I'll update again after i get more bloodwork this week or next at private md labs. Then I will have to decide what to do until June when I can see a urologist (take nothing, take clomid at 12.5 eod, etc)

  9. Quote Originally Posted by TML499 View Post
    Yeah, i suppose that was really more of a rhetorical question, just me thinking out loud. Well I got a message from my doctor saying my labs are all "essentially normal" and I should go see the urologist like we had planned on. I kind of expected that and I didn't expect any real help until that visit again.

    I'll update again after i get more bloodwork this week or next at private md labs. Then I will have to decide what to do until June when I can see a urologist (take nothing, take clomid at 12.5 eod, etc)
    Normal does not = Healthy in majority of cases.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.

  10. It seems until I have posted five more times after this time, I can't send PMs. Hmmm.

  11. Still unable to.

  12. keep bumping
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.

  13. I shall do that. I appreciate the information in this post, as well as in the entire forum.

    How's that?

  14. Quote Originally Posted by GJohn View Post
    I shall do that. I appreciate the information in this post, as well as in the entire forum.

    How's that?
    BUMP ...easy as 1,2,3
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.

  15. I know. I was kidding.

  16. UPDATE:

    Yesterday I went in to LabCorp to get bloods done again, exactly 2 weeks after i got a reading of test = 182 from my primary care doctor at about 4 in the afternoon. I went in at 10am, when I normally wake up, and got the following (more expected) readings:

    Test: 362 (348-1197, although my doctor has this range as like 162-680)
    LH: 1.0 (1.7-8.6)
    FSH: 0.6 (1.5-12.4)
    Estradiol: 20.0 (7.6-42.6)

    Some other numbers that were a bit off, and have sometimes been similarly off in past bloodworks and sometimes within range. If I recall someone told me that some of these could be due to dehydration.
    Bilirubin: 1.3 (0-1.2)
    BUN: 23 (6-20)
    RBC: 5.62 (4.10-5.60)
    Hemoglobin: 17.1 (12.5-17.0)

    As you can see from looking back at past bloodwork, these numbers fall within my typical no-serm baseline. Test between 340 and 400, LH around 1 or slightly above, FSH between 0.5 and 1. So I think it is obvious that I am secondary hypogonadic, as I still barely fall in the normal range of T with very low amounts of LH and FSH. When I run clomid, my LH increases to between 5-9, FSH goes up to around 1.3-1.4 near the very bottom of the range, and Test goes to 600-750, with Estradiol creeping up towards the top of the range. These results have been consistent while blood is drawn at baseline and at the end of a serm run. So I have been able to boost these numbers temporarily with clomid but they revert back to my secondary hypo baseline after administration ceases. The mystery here is why my pituitary is not secreting more LH and FSH.

    One observation I can make: Bringing my vitamin D levels from below range at 25 (30-100) to ~50 or more did not seem to affect my baseline levels of LH, FSH, or Testosterone.

    Another observation I can make: These baseline numbers were where they were after my very first cycle (I've done 3, all PHs). I waited 10 weeks after the end of my first PCT (legit nolva) to get tested and had similar numbers (despite feeling recovered at the end of PCT). Surprisingly, my first cycle either seems to have caused this issue, or I had it beforehand. This is surprising because my 2nd and 3rd cycles were longer/harsher, and they do not seem to have made the condition any/much worse.

    Anecdotally, I haven't been that bad recently. Energy is lowish but I'm not constantly tired or anything, I might not even notice anything if I didn't have bloods. In the gym, strength, size, and muscular endurance fell slightly after coming off the clomid, but nothing drastic. Libido has been very minimal BUT existent (which I will consider a success for now). I have been using cialis with the lady so it's hard to tell if the ED is still an issue, but 6-9mg gets me hard as a rock even when i've had drinks. I also had a good quality erection about 3.5 days after my last administration of cialis this week (won't be seeing the gf again for a while), so I have hope that my guy can stand to attention normally. Still getting morning chubbys with the occasional morning erection. Ejaculatory volume has seemed about normal recently (although not clomid levels), and orgasms are not nearly as strong as they were on clomid (or before I had this issue if I remember correctly).

    So now it is an issue of where do I go from here? I am going to be seeing a urologist covered by my insurance in early-mid June. That leaves me with 8-10 weeks. Should I take nothing at all and see what my body does naturally over this time period? Should I run clomid or nolva again at a low dosage (i.e. 12.5mg EOD) to see what kind of levels I can achieve with this dosage, and also to improve well-being and gym performance while I wait for June?

    When I see the urologist, I am going to request a full hormone panel (not like the one I get at LabCorp or the half-assed one my doctor did) and a scan of the pituitary (these seem like obvious choices). What other tests should I ask him about running to try and get to the cause of this? What do I need to get looked at to get a complete picture? I am not going to be willing to go on TRT (at least not until all other options are completely exhausted). I was thinking maybe a nutrient panel, or some tests relating to GI integrity? (I realized I never mentioned that I have diarrhea quite often, but I assumed that was normal for high protein diets). Please advise what tests are important, and what route you think I should take until the appointment in June?

  17. With out optimal vitamin. D a e clomid will not be able to work.to its full potential. Again indentify other imbalance with in the body so you have a better chance of keeping the ball going rather then crashing

    How can you build a mansion with out a strong base. It will just crumble like it just did..
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.

  18. Quote Originally Posted by The Matrix View Post
    With out optimal vitamin. D a e clomid will not be able to work.to its full potential. Again indentify other imbalance with in the body so you have a better chance of keeping the ball going rather then crashing

    How can you build a mansion with out a strong base. It will just crumble like it just did..
    I know that but I don't really have the funds to do tests on my D, A, and E levels until I get them ordered by a urologist/doctor (Is this what I would find out if I got a vitamin/nutrient panel like I mentioned? Can you tell me more about these tests? and also tests to determine GI integrity?). I wouldn't expect levels to hold after a 12.5mg EOD run of clomid, so it would mainly be to increase well-being in the meantime until I can get in to the urologist in June. Do you see any problem with doing that?

  19. Quote Originally Posted by TML499 View Post
    I know that but I don't really have the funds to do tests on my D, A, and E levels until I get them ordered by a urologist/doctor (Is this what I would find out if I got a vitamin/nutrient panel like I mentioned? Can you tell me more about these tests? and also tests to determine GI integrity?). I wouldn't expect levels to hold after a 12.5mg EOD run of clomid, so it would mainly be to increase well-being in the meantime until I can get in to the urologist in June. Do you see any problem with doing that?
    If it aint broke do not fix it...
    identifying GI integrity can be challenging and can elude medical professionals for years until alternative testing is done. If people have issues and can not afford then I go by symptoms. It makes it more of a challenge, but not impossible. Some people who do not have insurance, you find ways around getting the proper information needed. If they have access to open minded Dr's then I use them to help execute proper testing.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.

  20. Bump

  21. Bump

  22. Hi Matrix. Was able to send the message, but only so far. It says you've exceeded your private message storage or something of the sort.

  23. cleared
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.

  24. Update:

    This is rather odd and surprising, but the past week or two I've had no problems getting hard without cialis, I've been waking up with good morning erections every morning, and I have a libido again. Orgasms are still slightly weaker than they used to be, but I'm happy to be making progress. Problem is, I have no idea what I did, I don't think I even changed anything. I will continue to only supplement with multi, fish oil, and vitamin d and see if i continue to make progress. I will not be doing another run of clomid soon since I seem to be making progress without it. I will probably retest bloods in another 4 weeks or so.

  25. TML499: I am having a very similar issue to yours. After PCT my LH and tes returned to normal but my FSH stayed alarmingly low and I am having symptoms indicative of that. I can't PM yet because I am new to the forum.

  26. ^ Well actually my LH is low too (usually) and my test is low for my age as well (low-normal). I am not so sure the low FSH is what was causing any of my sexual problems, which have been somewhat alleviated and I'm not really sure why. I'm currently just waiting right now till I see a urologist in July, since my drive was getting better and I don't really feel like **** all the time. Do you have some bloodwork? You should start your own thread, I'll take a look at it and so will others I'm sure.

  27. Quote Originally Posted by TML499 View Post
    ^ Well actually my LH is low too (usually) and my test is low for my age as well (low-normal). I am not so sure the low FSH is what was causing any of my sexual problems, which have been somewhat alleviated and I'm not really sure why. I'm currently just waiting right now till I see a urologist in July, since my drive was getting better and I don't really feel like **** all the time. Do you have some bloodwork? You should start your own thread, I'll take a look at it and so will others I'm sure.
    Well shortly after you Clomid cycle you stated your LH was up but the FSH remained low. This is my case. My LH is 5.6 and my FSH is .08. My libido has gotten significantly better but I am still have other issues.

  28. Quote Originally Posted by PHANTOMRIDER View Post
    Well shortly after you Clomid cycle you stated your LH was up but the FSH remained low. This is my case. My LH is 5.6 and my FSH is .08. My libido has gotten significantly better but I am still have other issues.
    Are you still on the clomid? Near the end of my clomid run my TT was 640 but I had 0 libido, I think it was the clomid itself causing that. Recently I've had a better libido than when I was on clomid and now my TT is probably around 350-400. I don't think low FSH by itself will cause any sexual issues (besides worse sperm production) but I could be wrong.

    Update: Still have an existent (but not great) libido, and the ability to get erections without cialis (but not rock hard ones). Orgasms are still slightly weak, energy is OK not great. I am either staying in the same place or improving. I will get bloods done again in late may, and if things look like I expect them too I will schedule the urologist appointment for june.

  29. I have a question about varicoceles. By what mechanism would they cause a drop in testosterone? Logically I would think it would cause primary hypo (affecting the nuts functioning) and cause elevated LH. My problem seems to be secondary hypo, so is there any chance varicoceles could potentially decrease my LH leading to the T decrease? Or is this unlikely? I'm going to have my URO check for one when I go in.

  30. Went in for bloods checkup yesterday. Numbers are about the same, although I'm not having the ED hardly ever, and libido is still there but not very good. Can anyone guess why my bilirubin might be so high?

    Bilirubin: 2.1 (0-1.2)
    Test: 341
    LH 1.6
    FSH 0.6
    E2: 26.6
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