Not sure...

dye1337

New member
Hi all. I've felt pretty low libido wise for a long time, put fat on easily in ladylike places, etc. So, I got some bloodwork done by my GP and my testosterone was 310. I went to an endo but first decided to see how tamoxifen would make me feel. 20mg/day for 6 days and then 9 days later got bloodwork done through my endo. This time came back differently:

K, so this bloodwork was done after 6 days of 20mg tamoxifen daily and a 9 day cessation of the tamoxifen before the bloodwork was done.

Testosterone total : 600 (went up, not bad)
Free testosterone : 1.1%, range: 1.5-3.2
Free testosterone: 66, range 52-280
cortisol: 19 ug/dL range: 8-19
igf-1 204 range: 155-432
prolactin: 8.9 range:3-18
t4, free: 1.50 range 0.82-1.77
TSH: 3.180
LH: 5.6 range 1.7-8.6
FSH 1.2LOW range 1.5-12.4
Thyroxine 8.3 range 4.5-12.0

To my understanding tamoxifen has a half life of 7 days and its prodrug a halflife of 14 days. I don't feel any better on the tamoxifen, but that could very well be from the side effects of it.

If anyone could put in their 2 pennies it'd be greatly appreciated. My endo wants to do bloodwork again in 2 months and I noticed on the bloodwork sheet he put down 257.2, hypogonadism.
 
dye1337 said:
Hi all. I've felt pretty low libido wise for a long time, put fat on easily in ladylike places, etc. So, I got some bloodwork done by my GP and my testosterone was 310. I went to an endo but first decided to see how tamoxifen would make me feel. 20mg/day for 6 days and then 9 days later got bloodwork done through my endo. This time came back differently:

K, so this bloodwork was done after 6 days of 20mg tamoxifen daily and a 9 day cessation of the tamoxifen before the bloodwork was done.

Testosterone total : 600 (went up, not bad)
Free testosterone : 1.1%, range: 1.5-3.2
Free testosterone: 66, range 55-280
cortisol: 19 ug/dL range: 8-19
igf-1 204 range: 155-432
prolactin: 8.9 range:3-18
t4, free: 1.50 range 0.82-1.77
TSH: 3.180
LH: 5.6 range 1.7-8.6
FSH 1.2LOW range 1.5-12.4
Thyroxine 8.3 range 4.5-12.0

To my understanding tamoxifen has a half life of 7 days and its prodrug a halflife of 14 days. I don't feel any better on the tamoxifen, but that could very well be from the side effects of it.

If anyone could put in their 2 pennies it'd be greatly appreciated. My endo wants to do bloodwork again in 2 months and I noticed on the bloodwork sheet he put down 257.2, hypogonadism.
Click to expand...

Well that is what he is treating you for. Obviously you are secondary hypogonad. I would look at the TSH is a huge read flag probably because you are not converting from t4 to t3 which I see in majority of cases with this issue, or you have low ferritin levels which can cause this to occur as well. Dr's going on the right track, but he is ignoring obvious signs and only focusing on one aspect. HMMM get your vitamin D levels tested. I bet they are about 20-25 ng/dl which in many cases I have dealt with when vitamin D levels are low and people are trying to restart they will be likely to fail due to low levels of D. Vitamin D is not a vitamin its a hormone which has a huge impact on LH. With out knowing the pathology of the case it will be hard to make any other recommendation with out knowing medical history and a whole mess load of information which I request when working with people and their Dr.
 
The Matrix said:
Well that is what he is treating you for. Obviously you are secondary hypogonad. I would look at the TSH is a huge read flag probably because you are not converting from t4 to t3 which I see in majority of cases with this issue, or you have low ferritin levels which can cause this to occur as well. Dr's going on the right track, but he is ignoring obvious signs and only focusing on one aspect. HMMM get your vitamin D levels tested. I bet they are about 20-25 ng/dl which in many cases I have dealt with when vitamin D levels are low and people are trying to restart they will be likely to fail due to low levels of D. Vitamin D is not a vitamin its a hormone which has a huge impact on LH. With out knowing the pathology of the case it will be hard to make any other recommendation with out knowing medical history and a whole mess load of information which I request when working with people and their Dr.
Click to expand...
Damn Doogie Howser...........
 
Thanks matrix. With my TSH high, if I weren't converting to t3 wouldn't I have highly elevated t4?

If there's any other info I can give you I'd be more than happy to tell you every detail. I do have a family history of all kinds of thyroid problems, in fact I'm the only one who does not have a thyroid problem. The testosterone problem though, that's a new one
 
dye1337 said:
Thanks matrix. With my TSH high, if I weren't converting to t3 wouldn't I have highly elevated t4?

If there's any other info I can give you I'd be more than happy to tell you every detail. I do have a family history of all kinds of thyroid problems, in fact I'm the only one who does not have a thyroid problem. The testosterone problem though, that's a new one
Click to expand...

I must be blind or I do not see ft3 or total t3 in your blood work, or TPO, TGAB, ferritin or vitamin D. You can have normal t4 and low t-3 still be hyp. To me this is not a comprehensive approach. Then people wonder why they feel like crap all the time and every one is on the forums. If dr would do there job in the first place world be a much better place. Its very easily to spot a hypothyroid person just look in their eyes you can see it plain as day and other boduly characteristics
 
unfortunately no t3/ft3 was done. I was just saying if I didn't have a problem with the actual production of t4 but a problem with converting to t3, wouldn't my t4 be higher since the TSH is high? That just seems (to me, not exactly an expert) that would be more of a thyroid problem itself than necessarily a conversion unless my t3/ft3 were also low.

Does TRT differ from secondary to primary hypogonadism? If my T drops back down (i assume it will, it would be awesome if it doesn't) I'd like to get it back up for numerous reasons. The nolvadex made me feel good for like a day or two but then my libido went away and I just got very moody. I did look quite lean from losing water in my fat though, which was nice
 
dye1337 said:
unfortunately no t3/ft3 was done. I was just saying if I didn't have a problem with the actual production of t4 but a problem with converting to t3, wouldn't my t4 be higher since the TSH is high? That just seems (to me, not exactly an expert) that would be more of a thyroid problem itself than necessarily a conversion unless my t3/ft3 were also low.

Does TRT differ from secondary to primary hypogonadism? If my T drops back down (i assume it will, it would be awesome if it doesn't) I'd like to get it back up for numerous reasons. The nolvadex made me feel good for like a day or two but then my libido went away and I just got very moody. I did look quite lean from losing water in my fat though, which was nice
Click to expand...

I have been doing this study clinical with Dr's for over 5 years. I am used to seeing typical cases of this This is why proper blood work is need right from the starts so precious time is not wasted.
Address the issue then testosterone can come back in balance. You ever been wack on the head really hard?
 
Never been whacked in the head hard enough to require a hospital visit, but I am also the type who wouldnt show up unless CSF was leaking from my ears. When I was like 14 years old I developed what I thought was HPPD, but I am unsure of that now. What happened was I had been taking concerta and clonidine to go to sleep. I started to have a negative reaction to the clonidine, went cold turkey to that and the concerta and I started to have tangible visual field distortion. Like I was always seeing what looked like snow, if i look at straight lines they often start to bend instead of stay straight, etc. I had occasionally done psychedelic drugs from around age 12 so I just assumed the visual distortion was from that. I wasn't doing any for a few weeks when the problems occurred though. I saw a neurologist who had me get an MRI without contrast (probably thought I was full of it) and nothing came up.

Told my endo and he didn't seem concerned by that.
 
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