Clomid a TRT Alternative?

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by AutoKal47 View Post
    I cycle it that way because I cycle all my prewo products,
    and I only use/used DAA in "Lit-Up form", not for any other reason really.
    It worked very well on me so far, but I workout 6days a week, so when i take it
    I take it everyday because it seemed silly not to just for one day..

    As for DHEA, I'm using transdermal magnesium oil, trynna raise DHEA naturally.

    Sorry if I ask again, but, for the Clomid, 12.5mg a day is gonna be ok?
    Find out why DHEA is low usually due to immune system imbalance, or insulin issues. Majority its due to hidden inflammation in GI tract.
    12.5 mgs is good to start then remeasure in 3 weeks. Some guys need it m,w,f and stay at 1000 TT
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.


  2. For whoever has asked for real world results.. I was prescribed clomid 50 mgs per day 365 days a year!!!!!!!!!! I took this for about 5-6 years.. Anyways, I found that at the above dosing protocol, test levels always in mid range 600 or so give or take a 100 ngdl..
    Mood was affected negatively also.. I seemed to be more emotional..
    Sex drive was normal,.., Never extreme on either end of the spectrum
    AST and ALT always came in the normal range


    Overall it was a good run.. I did notice however as the years went by it seemed that my test levels and sex drive, erection strength etc was not as good as it was when I began the clomid treatment thearpy..

    I got the idea from reading pubmed journals and it was the answer to a ZERO sperm count issue as I wanted to have children and had been on trt and was kinda screwed in that department..

    Currently I am on TRT again using Androgel.. It works, but nothing works like a shot of test a week NOTHING!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Arnold Schwarzenegger
    The mind always fails first, not the body. The secret is to make your mind work for you, not against you..
    Arnold Schwarzenegger
    •   
       


  3. Quote Originally Posted by PumpDogg View Post
    For whoever has asked for real world results.. I was prescribed clomid 50 mgs per day 365 days a year!!!!!!!!!! I took this for about 5-6 years.. I would cycle in between doctor appointments, never more than 2 cycles a year.. and when i say cycle. I dont mean running an oral for 3 weeks either.. Anyways, I found that at the above dosing protocol, test levels always in mid range 600 or so give or take a 100 ngdl..
    Mood was affected negatively also.. I seemed to be more emotional, to the point I began smoking weed as not to be quick to snap and go off on my wife and kids!!
    Sex drive was normal,.., Never extreme on either end of the spectrum
    AST and ALT always came in the normal range
    Lipids unaffected for most part.. I take Niaspan and Zetia for that, so it was unchanged

    Overall it was a good run.. I did notice however as the years went by and I would cycle test cyp or enath, it seemed that my test levels and sex drive, erection strength etc was not as good as it was when I began the clomid treatment thearpy..

    I got the idea from reading pubmed journals and it was the answer to a ZERO sperm count issue as I wanted to have children and had been on trt and was kinda screwed in that department..

    Currently I am on TRT again using Androgel.. It works, but nothing works like a shot of test a week NOTHING!!!
    We have found high dosage of clomid can cause a down regulation of LH resulting in lower levels of testosterone over just a 2-3 month peroid. More is not better, but less is. 50 mgs daily too many potential side effect long term.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.

  4. Quote Originally Posted by The Matrix View Post
    Find out why DHEA is low usually due to immune system imbalance, or insulin issues. Majority its due to hidden inflammation in GI tract.
    12.5 mgs is good to start then remeasure in 3 weeks. Some guys need it m,w,f and stay at 1000 TT
    For me it comes from long term diet (as in pretty massive cal deficit) + crazy training intensity

    M,w,f sounds even better to start with, didn't think about that.
    ..:: ENHANCED BODY FORMULATIONS ::..
    Recompadrol & AAV2 - PM me with any questions


  5. I am interested in switching to clomid for TRT. I think that I am secondary hypogonadal because LH was 3.05 mIU/mL (reference range 1.24-8.62) and prolactin was 4.55 ng/mL (reference range 2.64-13.13) before starting TRT. From what I have read, LH and prolactin are higher if you are primary hypogonadal.

    My question is, what would be a typical protocol for weening myself off of test cyp and onto clomid? Any input would be appreciated.

  6. Quote Originally Posted by PumpDogg
    For whoever has asked for real world results.. I was prescribed clomid 50 mgs per day 365 days a year!!!!!!!!!! I took this for about 5-6 years.. I would cycle in between doctor appointments, never more than 2 cycles a year.. and when i say cycle. I dont mean running an oral for 3 weeks either.. Anyways, I found that at the above dosing protocol, test levels always in mid range 600 or so give or take a 100 ngdl..
    Mood was affected negatively also.. I seemed to be more emotional, to the point I began smoking weed as not to be quick to snap and go off on my wife and kids!!
    Sex drive was normal,.., Never extreme on either end of the spectrum
    AST and ALT always came in the normal range
    Lipids unaffected for most part.. I take Niaspan and Zetia for that, so it was unchanged

    Overall it was a good run.. I did notice however as the years went by and I would cycle test cyp or enath, it seemed that my test levels and sex drive, erection strength etc was not as good as it was when I began the clomid treatment thearpy..

    I got the idea from reading pubmed journals and it was the answer to a ZERO sperm count issue as I wanted to have children and had been on trt and was kinda screwed in that department..

    Currently I am on TRT again using Androgel.. It works, but nothing works like a shot of test a week NOTHING!!!
    Pump...or Matrix...

    I'm 27 at recently put on TRT. Convened abut the fertility issues that it could cause. I have one daughter-1 yr-but my wife and I are wanting to try again in about 1.5 yrs.

    I've never had a sperm count done, but know I'm fertile as we've had two pregnancies within about a 6-9 mo time frame (one unfortunately ended in miscarriage). Is TRT definitely a death sentence for fertility?

    I am wondering if the clomid alternative would be good to consider and mention to an endo I am going to see at the end of the month. A urologist put me on TRT for TT levels of 192ng/dl, but I am wanting to search for a diff doc as he answered NEARLY NO questions for me.

    Always appreciate the help!

  7. Quote Originally Posted by jdub1980 View Post
    I am interested in switching to clomid for TRT. I think that I am secondary hypogonadal because LH was 3.05 mIU/mL (reference range 1.24-8.62) and prolactin was 4.55 ng/mL (reference range 2.64-13.13) before starting TRT. From what I have read, LH and prolactin are higher if you are primary hypogonadal.

    My question is, what would be a typical protocol for weening myself off of test cyp and onto clomid? Any input would be appreciated.

    Before coming off HRT one needs to make sure there is optimal environment for hormones production to be continued. For people who take this approach, We usually take up to 4 months to prepare their bodies to come off of HRT to create the proper environment for their production to take over.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.

  8. How about 12.5mg clomid eod or e3d for a few months while gradually lowering test dosage to none? Then staying on clomid long term?

  9. [QUOTE=jdub1980;3124957]How about 12.5mg clomid eod or e3d for a few months while gradually lowering test dosage to none? Then staying on clomid long term?[/QUObe

    Need to have all ducks in a row then get base line reading 10 days off testosterone then you do closed challenge 7 days retest see if you hold.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.

  10. Quote Originally Posted by PumpDogg View Post

    Currently I am on TRT again using Androgel.. It works, but nothing works like a shot of test a week NOTHING!!!
    I need to get off this Testim crap and onto test cyp. Testim really isn't doing **** for me. What do you feel like an hour after a shot of test?
    •   
       


  11. Lboston, you need to be off of TRT before you do anything else. Here is the problem I have seen over the years. Doctors, most are simply not trained to deal with the horomone issues associated with cycling nor do they have indepth knowledge of why your test, lh, fsh levels are off. .How E2 plays a role etc etc etc.. So they treat the symptom as usual.. They will give you test, or an ED drug and tell you test doesnt matter blah blah blah.. Even if you find an endo, their protocol is going to be a transdermal or a shot biweekly or some go every 3 weeks.. the way they treat the problem is sooo varied, you cant say that anyone one Dr. will do the same thing,... Having been on trt for as many years as I have, several of my bro's have went to primary care docs, urologist, endo's and all of them have a different treatment regimen than I do.. Only the ones that see my doc are following the same as me.. Go figure..
    Clomid, should restore your lh, fsh and test levels.. It takes over 70 days I think, to make 1 healthy sperm.. I had a zero sperm count that was checked 3 times.. Im not a doctor and I dont claim to know all there is to know about this.. I have forgotten more about it then I can remember, but i researched what would work best for me and clomid therapy was it.. I have fathered 5 kids since, so obviously my research paid off ;-)
    Good luck to you and enjoy the gift you already have.. Ecah one is precious in their own way
    Quote Originally Posted by Arnold Schwarzenegger
    The mind always fails first, not the body. The secret is to make your mind work for you, not against you..
    Arnold Schwarzenegger

  12. I thought clomid wasnt good for the liver long term

  13. I would never rec that over acual TRT. if you have low test you have low test. clomid has lots of side effects also, more than TRT dosed test.
    but for those not willing to take a shot 2 times a month i guess they will praise this one...
    LG Sciences Board Rep
    These statements have not been evaluated by the FDA, do not constitute medical advice, and are not official or authorized comments by LG Sciences, LLC.

  14. Quote Originally Posted by PumpDogg View Post
    Lboston, you need to be off of TRT before you do anything else. Here is the problem I have seen over the years. Doctors, most are simply not trained to deal with the horomone issues associated with cycling nor do they have indepth knowledge of why your test, lh, fsh levels are off. .How E2 plays a role etc etc etc.. So they treat the symptom as usual.. They will give you test, or an ED drug and tell you test doesnt matter blah blah blah.. Even if you find an endo, their protocol is going to be a transdermal or a shot biweekly or some go every 3 weeks.. the way they treat the problem is sooo varied, you cant say that anyone one Dr. will do the same thing,... Having been on trt for as many years as I have, several of my bro's have went to primary care docs, urologist, endo's and all of them have a different treatment regimen than I do.. Only the ones that see my doc are following the same as me.. Go figure..
    Clomid, should restore your lh, fsh and test levels.. It takes over 70 days I think, to make 1 healthy sperm.. I had a zero sperm count that was checked 3 times.. Im not a doctor and I dont claim to know all there is to know about this.. I have forgotten more about it then I can remember, but i researched what would work best for me and clomid therapy was it.. I have fathered 5 kids since, so obviously my research paid off ;-)
    Good luck to you and enjoy the gift you already have.. Ecah one is precious in their own way
    if tryign to have kids while on TRT then i think its a nice idea t use. but life long i would not rec the clomid.
    LG Sciences Board Rep
    These statements have not been evaluated by the FDA, do not constitute medical advice, and are not official or authorized comments by LG Sciences, LLC.

  15. Quote Originally Posted by ohiostate2827 View Post
    I thought clomid wasnt good for the liver long term
    Low dosage 12.5 mgs every so often one will be fine. >25 mgs then you may be increasing risk of sight issues and other side effect
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.

  16. Quote Originally Posted by Blergs View Post
    if tryign to have kids while on TRT then i think its a nice idea t use. but life long i would not rec the clomid.
    HMG is what I suggest to dr's for guys you want to increase their chances if HCG does not work. Ageless guy been on hrt for 20 years fathered a child at age of 61 !!
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.

  17. Quote Originally Posted by Blergs View Post
    I would never rec that over acual TRT. if you have low test you have low test. clomid has lots of side effects also, more than TRT dosed test.
    but for those not willing to take a shot 2 times a month i guess they will praise this one...
    I agree, Im not advocating clomid over standard trt nor am I advocating clomid for life.. However for the short term it works quite well..

    HCG.. Great drug, but those that are sensitive to Estrogen can get gyno from it, Ive seen it.. So clomid keeps that at bay also.. To each their own.. It worked for me.. I dont take clomid any longer btw
    Quote Originally Posted by Arnold Schwarzenegger
    The mind always fails first, not the body. The secret is to make your mind work for you, not against you..
    Arnold Schwarzenegger

  18. Quote Originally Posted by PumpDogg View Post
    I agree, Im not advocating clomid over standard trt nor am I advocating clomid for life.. However for the short term it works quite well..

    HCG.. Great drug, but those that are sensitive to Estrogen can get gyno from it, Ive seen it.. So clomid keeps that at bay also.. To each their own.. It worked for me.. I dont take clomid any longer btw
    why do you take cyp? instead of androgel?

  19. Quote Originally Posted by ohiostate2827 View Post
    why do you take cyp? instead of androgel?
    Some people prefer shots over gels due to possible contamination of loved ones esp small childern.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.

  20. I have been able to maintain a T level of over 700 while taking 12.5mg EOD, without it my levels are around 350... Doing this and taking matrixs other advice i have been able to hold over 700,,,just tested last week my tt was 737

    i know dr. shippen is a big fan of using low dosage clomid for some of his patients,

    im interested in seeing if my levels go back down after stopping clomid though

  21. Quote Originally Posted by PumpDogg
    Lboston, you need to be off of TRT before you do anything else. Here is the problem I have seen over the years. Doctors, most are simply not trained to deal with the horomone issues associated with cycling nor do they have indepth knowledge of why your test, lh, fsh levels are off. .How E2 plays a role etc etc etc.. So they treat the symptom as usual.. They will give you test, or an ED drug and tell you test doesnt matter blah blah blah.. Even if you find an endo, their protocol is going to be a transdermal or a shot biweekly or some go every 3 weeks.. the way they treat the problem is sooo varied, you cant say that anyone one Dr. will do the same thing,... Having been on trt for as many years as I have, several of my bro's have went to primary care docs, urologist, endo's and all of them have a different treatment regimen than I do.. Only the ones that see my doc are following the same as me.. Go figure..
    Clomid, should restore your lh, fsh and test levels.. It takes over 70 days I think, to make 1 healthy sperm.. I had a zero sperm count that was checked 3 times.. Im not a doctor and I dont claim to know all there is to know about this.. I have forgotten more about it then I can remember, but i researched what would work best for me and clomid therapy was it.. I have fathered 5 kids since, so obviously my research paid off ;-)
    Good luck to you and enjoy the gift you already have.. Ecah one is precious in their own way
    Thanks man- I appreciate it. I'm at a loss as of what to do really. Got a call back from an endo today...low normal T, but elevated liver and kidney enzymes. Of course, did not actually talk to a doctor--just his assistant that called. Doc doesn't want to do anything right now; said wait another 8 weeks and then get more bloodwork?? Not real sure why the wait. Told me to get with my PCP regarding the elevated enzymes.

    I'm thinking of looking to the Clomid route for myself. I can get it offline and follow a plan-I just like the reassurance of a doc checking things I guess. However, I don't enjoy not getting any type of treatment for my symptoms.

    LB

  22. Quote Originally Posted by lboston View Post
    Thanks man- I appreciate it. I'm at a loss as of what to do really. Got a call back from an endo today...low normal T, but elevated liver and kidney enzymes. Of course, did not actually talk to a doctor--just his assistant that called. Doc doesn't want to do anything right now; said wait another 8 weeks and then get more bloodwork?? Not real sure why the wait. Told me to get with my PCP regarding the elevated enzymes.

    I'm thinking of looking to the Clomid route for myself. I can get it offline and follow a plan-I just like the reassurance of a doc checking things I guess. However, I don't enjoy not getting any type of treatment for my symptoms.

    LB
    You own your health no one else. Some times one needs to be proactive in doing what needs to be done. I do not advocate it, but you have to do what you have to do.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.

  23. I put up a Part II to the Part I that was originally posted in the OP. The researchers had a follow up study published that did a few things differently...summarized here:

    http://www.advancedmusclesciencelab.c om/2012/05/clomid-trt-alternative-part-ii.html
    ForeRunner Labs
    The Future of Human Performance
    Please LIKE FRL on Facebook


  24. Quote Originally Posted by Royd The Noyd View Post
    I put up a Part II to the Part I that was originally posted in the OP. The researchers had a follow up study published that did a few things differently...summarized here:

    http://www.advancedmusclesciencelab.c om/2012/05/clomid-trt-alternative-part-ii.html
    Very interesting, thanks for posting this!
    So, up to 3 years? And there were no sides?
    No problems with estrogen either?
    ..:: ENHANCED BODY FORMULATIONS ::..
    Recompadrol & AAV2 - PM me with any questions


  25. Quote Originally Posted by Royd The Noyd
    I put up a Part II to the Part I that was originally posted in the OP. The researchers had a follow up study published that did a few things differently...summarized here:

    http://www.advancedmusclesciencelab.c om/2012/05/clomid-trt-alternative-part-ii.html
    I also read on another forum about a guy who ran it for over a year and came off higher than normal. With no sides. If anything it shows that its not going to push you too far as far as e2 levels like some speculated or produce crazy sides. He ran it at 25mg ED and tapered off with 12.5mg for a month before stopping. He ran formestane around half way through and noticed great gains. No emo sides either. I'm not saying it's safe or suggesting it's use. Only that it's not as dangerous as some think.
    RecoverBro ELITE

  26. Quote Originally Posted by mattrag View Post
    I also read on another forum about a guy who ran it for over a year and came off higher than normal. With no sides. If anything it shows that its not going to push you too far as far as e2 levels like some speculated or produce crazy sides. He ran it at 25mg ED and tapered off with 12.5mg for a month before stopping. He ran formestane around half way through and noticed great gains. No emo sides either. I'm not saying it's safe or suggesting it's use. Only that it's not as dangerous as some think.
    Kept at moderate dosages 12-25 mg EOD I do not see issues with side effect, Shippens been doing it for a long time with people with no none reported sides effects.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.

  27. Quote Originally Posted by AutoKal47 View Post
    Very interesting, thanks for posting this!
    So, up to 3 years? And there were no sides?
    No problems with estrogen either?
    None reported. I wished they had used a better measure than BMI of course.
    ForeRunner Labs
    The Future of Human Performance
    Please LIKE FRL on Facebook


  28. So jumping in late, but I am on TRT because I am 30 and was down to 259 bioavailable Test .5cc/wk and I am up to 800 or so. Wife and I Tryig to have kids, we thought she was having issues with insulin resistance, turns out I have sperm count of 0!! Anyone experienced this? Going to a urologist but if it's not structural, what pharmaceutical treatments have you seen?? Clomid w/HCG?

  29. Quote Originally Posted by Kacadie
    So jumping in late, but I am on TRT because I am 30 and was down to 259 bioavailable Test .5cc/wk and I am up to 800 or so. Wife and I Tryig to have kids, we thought she was having issues with insulin resistance, turns out I have sperm count of 0!! Anyone experienced this? Going to a urologist but if it's not structural, what pharmaceutical treatments have you seen?? Clomid w/HCG?
    Clomid by itself is what I've normally seen. I don't know if the hcg injections have made their way to clinical usage yet. Im pretty sure not enough official studies have been done on it.

  30. Quote Originally Posted by Kacadie
    So jumping in late, but I am on TRT because I am 30 and was down to 259 bioavailable Test .5cc/wk and I am up to 800 or so. Wife and I Tryig to have kids, we thought she was having issues with insulin resistance, turns out I have sperm count of 0!! Anyone experienced this? Going to a urologist but if it's not structural, what pharmaceutical treatments have you seen?? Clomid w/HCG?
    50 mgs clomid i have used with drs to jump start low sperm. But you need to look at factors which is lowering it in the first place ..aka life style is the biggest one
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
  

  
 

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