Clomid a TRT Alternative? - AnabolicMinds.com - Page 2

Clomid a TRT Alternative?

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    Lboston, you need to be off of TRT before you do anything else. Here is the problem I have seen over the years. Doctors, most are simply not trained to deal with the horomone issues associated with cycling nor do they have indepth knowledge of why your test, lh, fsh levels are off. .How E2 plays a role etc etc etc.. So they treat the symptom as usual.. They will give you test, or an ED drug and tell you test doesnt matter blah blah blah.. Even if you find an endo, their protocol is going to be a transdermal or a shot biweekly or some go every 3 weeks.. the way they treat the problem is sooo varied, you cant say that anyone one Dr. will do the same thing,... Having been on trt for as many years as I have, several of my bro's have went to primary care docs, urologist, endo's and all of them have a different treatment regimen than I do.. Only the ones that see my doc are following the same as me.. Go figure..
    Clomid, should restore your lh, fsh and test levels.. It takes over 70 days I think, to make 1 healthy sperm.. I had a zero sperm count that was checked 3 times.. Im not a doctor and I dont claim to know all there is to know about this.. I have forgotten more about it then I can remember, but i researched what would work best for me and clomid therapy was it.. I have fathered 5 kids since, so obviously my research paid off ;-)
    Good luck to you and enjoy the gift you already have.. Ecah one is precious in their own way
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    I thought clomid wasnt good for the liver long term
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    I would never rec that over acual TRT. if you have low test you have low test. clomid has lots of side effects also, more than TRT dosed test.
    but for those not willing to take a shot 2 times a month i guess they will praise this one...
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    Quote Originally Posted by PumpDogg View Post
    Lboston, you need to be off of TRT before you do anything else. Here is the problem I have seen over the years. Doctors, most are simply not trained to deal with the horomone issues associated with cycling nor do they have indepth knowledge of why your test, lh, fsh levels are off. .How E2 plays a role etc etc etc.. So they treat the symptom as usual.. They will give you test, or an ED drug and tell you test doesnt matter blah blah blah.. Even if you find an endo, their protocol is going to be a transdermal or a shot biweekly or some go every 3 weeks.. the way they treat the problem is sooo varied, you cant say that anyone one Dr. will do the same thing,... Having been on trt for as many years as I have, several of my bro's have went to primary care docs, urologist, endo's and all of them have a different treatment regimen than I do.. Only the ones that see my doc are following the same as me.. Go figure..
    Clomid, should restore your lh, fsh and test levels.. It takes over 70 days I think, to make 1 healthy sperm.. I had a zero sperm count that was checked 3 times.. Im not a doctor and I dont claim to know all there is to know about this.. I have forgotten more about it then I can remember, but i researched what would work best for me and clomid therapy was it.. I have fathered 5 kids since, so obviously my research paid off ;-)
    Good luck to you and enjoy the gift you already have.. Ecah one is precious in their own way
    if tryign to have kids while on TRT then i think its a nice idea t use. but life long i would not rec the clomid.
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    These statements have not been evaluated by the FDA, do not constitute medical advice, and are not official or authorized comments by LG Sciences, LLC.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ohiostate2827 View Post
    I thought clomid wasnt good for the liver long term
    Low dosage 12.5 mgs every so often one will be fine. >25 mgs then you may be increasing risk of sight issues and other side effect
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blergs View Post
    if tryign to have kids while on TRT then i think its a nice idea t use. but life long i would not rec the clomid.
    HMG is what I suggest to dr's for guys you want to increase their chances if HCG does not work. Ageless guy been on hrt for 20 years fathered a child at age of 61 !!
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blergs View Post
    I would never rec that over acual TRT. if you have low test you have low test. clomid has lots of side effects also, more than TRT dosed test.
    but for those not willing to take a shot 2 times a month i guess they will praise this one...
    I agree, Im not advocating clomid over standard trt nor am I advocating clomid for life.. However for the short term it works quite well..

    HCG.. Great drug, but those that are sensitive to Estrogen can get gyno from it, Ive seen it.. So clomid keeps that at bay also.. To each their own.. It worked for me.. I dont take clomid any longer btw
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    Quote Originally Posted by PumpDogg View Post
    I agree, Im not advocating clomid over standard trt nor am I advocating clomid for life.. However for the short term it works quite well..

    HCG.. Great drug, but those that are sensitive to Estrogen can get gyno from it, Ive seen it.. So clomid keeps that at bay also.. To each their own.. It worked for me.. I dont take clomid any longer btw
    why do you take cyp? instead of androgel?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ohiostate2827 View Post
    why do you take cyp? instead of androgel?
    Some people prefer shots over gels due to possible contamination of loved ones esp small childern.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    I have been able to maintain a T level of over 700 while taking 12.5mg EOD, without it my levels are around 350... Doing this and taking matrixs other advice i have been able to hold over 700,,,just tested last week my tt was 737

    i know dr. shippen is a big fan of using low dosage clomid for some of his patients,

    im interested in seeing if my levels go back down after stopping clomid though
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    Quote Originally Posted by PumpDogg
    Lboston, you need to be off of TRT before you do anything else. Here is the problem I have seen over the years. Doctors, most are simply not trained to deal with the horomone issues associated with cycling nor do they have indepth knowledge of why your test, lh, fsh levels are off. .How E2 plays a role etc etc etc.. So they treat the symptom as usual.. They will give you test, or an ED drug and tell you test doesnt matter blah blah blah.. Even if you find an endo, their protocol is going to be a transdermal or a shot biweekly or some go every 3 weeks.. the way they treat the problem is sooo varied, you cant say that anyone one Dr. will do the same thing,... Having been on trt for as many years as I have, several of my bro's have went to primary care docs, urologist, endo's and all of them have a different treatment regimen than I do.. Only the ones that see my doc are following the same as me.. Go figure..
    Clomid, should restore your lh, fsh and test levels.. It takes over 70 days I think, to make 1 healthy sperm.. I had a zero sperm count that was checked 3 times.. Im not a doctor and I dont claim to know all there is to know about this.. I have forgotten more about it then I can remember, but i researched what would work best for me and clomid therapy was it.. I have fathered 5 kids since, so obviously my research paid off ;-)
    Good luck to you and enjoy the gift you already have.. Ecah one is precious in their own way
    Thanks man- I appreciate it. I'm at a loss as of what to do really. Got a call back from an endo today...low normal T, but elevated liver and kidney enzymes. Of course, did not actually talk to a doctor--just his assistant that called. Doc doesn't want to do anything right now; said wait another 8 weeks and then get more bloodwork?? Not real sure why the wait. Told me to get with my PCP regarding the elevated enzymes.

    I'm thinking of looking to the Clomid route for myself. I can get it offline and follow a plan-I just like the reassurance of a doc checking things I guess. However, I don't enjoy not getting any type of treatment for my symptoms.

    LB
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    Quote Originally Posted by lboston View Post
    Thanks man- I appreciate it. I'm at a loss as of what to do really. Got a call back from an endo today...low normal T, but elevated liver and kidney enzymes. Of course, did not actually talk to a doctor--just his assistant that called. Doc doesn't want to do anything right now; said wait another 8 weeks and then get more bloodwork?? Not real sure why the wait. Told me to get with my PCP regarding the elevated enzymes.

    I'm thinking of looking to the Clomid route for myself. I can get it offline and follow a plan-I just like the reassurance of a doc checking things I guess. However, I don't enjoy not getting any type of treatment for my symptoms.

    LB
    You own your health no one else. Some times one needs to be proactive in doing what needs to be done. I do not advocate it, but you have to do what you have to do.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    I put up a Part II to the Part I that was originally posted in the OP. The researchers had a follow up study published that did a few things differently...summarized here:

    http://www.advancedmusclesciencelab.c om/2012/05/clomid-trt-alternative-part-ii.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by Royd The Noyd View Post
    I put up a Part II to the Part I that was originally posted in the OP. The researchers had a follow up study published that did a few things differently...summarized here:

    http://www.advancedmusclesciencelab.c om/2012/05/clomid-trt-alternative-part-ii.html
    Very interesting, thanks for posting this!
    So, up to 3 years? And there were no sides?
    No problems with estrogen either?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Royd The Noyd
    I put up a Part II to the Part I that was originally posted in the OP. The researchers had a follow up study published that did a few things differently...summarized here:

    http://www.advancedmusclesciencelab.c om/2012/05/clomid-trt-alternative-part-ii.html
    I also read on another forum about a guy who ran it for over a year and came off higher than normal. With no sides. If anything it shows that its not going to push you too far as far as e2 levels like some speculated or produce crazy sides. He ran it at 25mg ED and tapered off with 12.5mg for a month before stopping. He ran formestane around half way through and noticed great gains. No emo sides either. I'm not saying it's safe or suggesting it's use. Only that it's not as dangerous as some think.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattrag View Post
    I also read on another forum about a guy who ran it for over a year and came off higher than normal. With no sides. If anything it shows that its not going to push you too far as far as e2 levels like some speculated or produce crazy sides. He ran it at 25mg ED and tapered off with 12.5mg for a month before stopping. He ran formestane around half way through and noticed great gains. No emo sides either. I'm not saying it's safe or suggesting it's use. Only that it's not as dangerous as some think.
    Kept at moderate dosages 12-25 mg EOD I do not see issues with side effect, Shippens been doing it for a long time with people with no none reported sides effects.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AutoKal47 View Post
    Very interesting, thanks for posting this!
    So, up to 3 years? And there were no sides?
    No problems with estrogen either?
    None reported. I wished they had used a better measure than BMI of course.
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    So jumping in late, but I am on TRT because I am 30 and was down to 259 bioavailable Test .5cc/wk and I am up to 800 or so. Wife and I Tryig to have kids, we thought she was having issues with insulin resistance, turns out I have sperm count of 0!! Anyone experienced this? Going to a urologist but if it's not structural, what pharmaceutical treatments have you seen?? Clomid w/HCG?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kacadie
    So jumping in late, but I am on TRT because I am 30 and was down to 259 bioavailable Test .5cc/wk and I am up to 800 or so. Wife and I Tryig to have kids, we thought she was having issues with insulin resistance, turns out I have sperm count of 0!! Anyone experienced this? Going to a urologist but if it's not structural, what pharmaceutical treatments have you seen?? Clomid w/HCG?
    Clomid by itself is what I've normally seen. I don't know if the hcg injections have made their way to clinical usage yet. Im pretty sure not enough official studies have been done on it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kacadie
    So jumping in late, but I am on TRT because I am 30 and was down to 259 bioavailable Test .5cc/wk and I am up to 800 or so. Wife and I Tryig to have kids, we thought she was having issues with insulin resistance, turns out I have sperm count of 0!! Anyone experienced this? Going to a urologist but if it's not structural, what pharmaceutical treatments have you seen?? Clomid w/HCG?
    50 mgs clomid i have used with drs to jump start low sperm. But you need to look at factors which is lowering it in the first place ..aka life style is the biggest one
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    Has anyone experimented with Torem for this purpose?
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    Quote Originally Posted by supermanjow View Post
    Has anyone experimented with Torem for this purpose?
    there is one study that shows it can increase testosterone.
    http://www.fertstert.org/article/S00...070-2/abstract
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17412336

    they had men who were not fertile and gave them 60mg a day of toremifene and at the end 22% of the men had achieved pregnancy. they state there was a statistically significant increase n testosterone, but that could mean as little as 5%.

    if you decide to go with toremifene you will be your own science experiment.

    Personally i would stick with Clomid, its cheaper, far more plentiful, more proven, and you can run a much smaller dose to be effective.
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    Quote Originally Posted by v4lu3s View Post
    there is one study that shows it can increase testosterone.
    http://www.fertstert.org/article/S00...070-2/abstract
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17412336

    they had men who were not fertile and gave them 60mg a day of toremifene and at the end 22% of the men had achieved pregnancy. they state there was a statistically significant increase n testosterone, but that could mean as little as 5%.

    if you decide to go with toremifene you will be your own science experiment.

    Personally i would stick with Clomid, its cheaper, far more plentiful, more proven, and you can run a much smaller dose to be effective.
    What about Nolva? I would assume it would have the same effect. I prefer it over clomid for the sides.
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    What kind of side effects do you get at 12.5 mg clomid e3d? I have read that nolvadex is e even less effective than toremifene for elevating testosterone.
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    Quote Originally Posted by v4lu3s View Post
    What kind of side effects do you get at 12.5 mg clomid e3d? I have read that nolvadex is e even less effective than toremifene for elevating testosterone.

    Yea I dunno if thats enough to see sides or not?. I hear from some guys that clomid messes with their eyes and I have bad eyes already so I dont want to chance it. Maybe its worth a shot at the low dose.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubbagump

    Yea I dunno if thats enough to see sides or not?. I hear from some guys that clomid messes with their eyes and I have bad eyes already so I dont want to chance it. Maybe its worth a shot at the low dose.
    I had slightly spotted vision, and random times, nothing significant or permanent though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lboston View Post
    I had slightly spotted vision, and random times, nothing significant or permanent though.
    What dose?
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZMIDLYF

    What dose?
    25mgs ED. If u ever use it again for TRT it will be less days per week.
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    I will be giving it a go for a PCT soon. I will be starting at 50mg ed first 2 weeks and 50 eod 3rd week, then 25mg eod for the 4th.
    Always open light. Itís not what you open with, itís what you finish with. Louie Simmons
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    Quote Originally Posted by lboston View Post
    I had slightly spotted vision, and random times, nothing significant or permanent though.

    Hmmm. Maybe Ill give it a try at the low dose. Im running nolva for pct right now. Any guess how long I shoul wait after pct is done to do the clomid? Go natty for as long as I cycled (after pct) then clomid?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubbagump

    Hmmm. Maybe Ill give it a try at the low dose. Im running nolva for pct right now. Any guess how long I shoul wait after pct is done to do the clomid? Go natty for as long as I cycled (after pct) then clomid?
    I'm by no means an expert on the subject, but i would think it wouldn't really make a difference.
    You could even use Clomid in you PCT and then just carry on with the low dose for "TrT" purposes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lboston View Post
    I'm by no means an expert on the subject, but i would think it wouldn't really make a difference.
    You could even use Clomid in you PCT and then just carry on with the low dose for "TrT" purposes.
    Ok. I guess I was looking at it from the natural hormone balance standpoint.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubbagump

    Ok. I guess I was looking at it from the natural hormone balance standpoint.
    Well, even though Clomid can and will raise "natural" test levels by increasing LH, it is not quite the same as being natural. It's still a compound used to increase test, it's just not exogenous test.

    Seems to be effective though!
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    Quote Originally Posted by lboston View Post
    I had slightly spotted vision, and random times, nothing significant or permanent though.
    Screw that noise. When I heard from my endo that vision problems can be a common side effect, it was immediately off the table.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kisaj

    Screw that noise. When I heard from my endo that vision problems can be a common side effect, it was immediately off the table.
    Common over the counter medications can cause permanent liver damage and death. Clomid Is a lot safer in small sensible doses. If you want the side effects follow bro science dosing schedules such as 50,100, or 150 milligrams per day.
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    Yeah, I appreciate the knowledge- I get it. Still...screw that.
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    There is a reason ppl get prescribed test for HRT and not clomid. Short term clomid is ok but I wouldnt take for any length of time.
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    Then how come drs are starting to use clomid for trt since it maintains the hormone cascade in a more intact manner than straight test?
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    How many doctors do you believe are actually doing that, first of all. Secondly, we know how many doctors don't understand anything about HRT, so this wouldn't really be surprising if it was actually happening. Even the most incompetent doctors I saw knew that clomid was only to try to "kickstart" natural production and if it didn't work in a couple months, it was time to come off.

    Also, if someone plans to be on TRT/HRT, it's for life anyway. Why would you not choose to go the most natural route with the greatest success- test? I don't get the point of experimenting with other things that mimic test if it is lifelong.
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    Quote Originally Posted by v4lu3s View Post
    Then how come drs are starting to use clomid for trt since it maintains the hormone cascade in a more intact manner than straight test?
    Because many doctors dont want to deal with a scheduled drug. It has a stigma attached to it.So they try the micky mouse approach they figure why not.Some dont even deal with injectibles only patches and gels which doent really work all that well either.
    Fact is that I have plenty of clomid around and everytime I take it I feel like ****, as simple as that. I choose HCG which I dont really like either but is the better of the 2 for me anyway and I only take it sparingly.
    Im not trying to give you a hard just giving you a bro science real life example
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