Put on HRT now coming off HRT

pilot14

New member
Awards
0
5 or 6 years ago, (34 yrs old then) Talking with dr. with some life issues, he suggest getting blood work done. Comes back says Low T. Puts me on androgel, etc etc. Things pick up life comes back to normal, have sex drive again, get married. Have a physical about a yr ago (diff. dr. that put me on the HRT, but current Dr. knows about it) anyways, BW comes back with high prolactin. Get referred to endo, have MRI, given cabergoline to reduce the prolactin, things come back to normal, have sex drive again. Though endo says he wants me to start to plan on getting off the Androgel, start a slow taper etc.....for the request in next paragraph.

Whoops, wife hears her clock ticking wants kids. Work on that project, no success. She goes and gets BW and her stuff worked up, Her body is slowing down and they start doing whatever routine they do with her. Well everything comes back normal, (albeit slowed down for her) so they look at me. Her Fertility Dr. discusses the androgel, and having done some reading with the suggestion of tapering off, I figure for the length of time I've been on HRT, that I will probably need some help getting body jump started. Dr. agrees and says lets do it this way. So his way was cold turkey off the androgel for 8 weeks, come in for more tests. Lo and behold, my body seems to be working as there are swimmers being made again, though on the low range of normal. So I bring up the other meds to help me out. He says he suggests HCG and Clomid. He has me go get blood work, and then prescribes HCG and Clomid.

Now, coming off the androgel sucked. and still sucks to this day. Fatigue, though not as bad as before I started HRT is around. Sex Drive. ZERO, Zilch, nada, completely asexual. Not even wood at any point of the day or night. Enough help from wife and it works, but it's hard when one could care less if she helps or not, or even if we have sex.

So now I sit here, and really wonder where these Dr's have put me, and have two new meds which I'm trying to figure out what really they are going to do, good or bad? Haven't taken them yet and seeing as I found this board and seems fairly active, I'd post up my last blood work results and see what anyone thinks. Unfortunately the BW is only test and FSH LH Est. Each time I get bw, I ask for them to do complete workups, but I guess I have to figure out how to fill out the Lab sheets for them.....grrrrrrrrrrr Anyways, last BW, everything was in "normal" range, except for Estrodial, which is way high.

Estrodial - 90.8 normal: non detectable - 56 median: 29.7
FSH - 3.71 normal: .7-11.1 median: 3.8
LH - 2.34 normal: .8-7.6 median: 2.4

Test - 426 normal: 249-836
Free Test - 10.3 normal: 8.1-25.1


So with those results, Dr. has sent over Clomid 25mg/day I believe (might be 3xweek it's not sitting in front of me)

and HCG just showed up today, and trying to figure it out....it says 10000iu (mix 1ml dilutant and inject .15 ml solution 3xWeek)


So anyone have any insight with the limited info I have? I basically just want to get back to feeling somewhat normal again, and let the rest fall into place. As I've read here and elsewhere, just getting tired of Dr's looking at a symptom and throwing half assed solutions to it. There has got to be a better way....
 
The Matrix

The Matrix

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
5 or 6 years ago, (34 yrs old then) Talking with dr. with some life issues, he suggest getting blood work done. Comes back says Low T. Puts me on androgel, etc etc. Things pick up life comes back to normal, have sex drive again, get married. Have a physical about a yr ago (diff. dr. that put me on the HRT, but current Dr. knows about it) anyways, BW comes back with high prolactin. Get referred to endo, have MRI, given cabergoline to reduce the prolactin, things come back to normal, have sex drive again. Though endo says he wants me to start to plan on getting off the Androgel, start a slow taper etc.....for the request in next paragraph.

Whoops, wife hears her clock ticking wants kids. Work on that project, no success. She goes and gets BW and her stuff worked up, Her body is slowing down and they start doing whatever routine they do with her. Well everything comes back normal, (albeit slowed down for her) so they look at me. Her Fertility Dr. discusses the androgel, and having done some reading with the suggestion of tapering off, I figure for the length of time I've been on HRT, that I will probably need some help getting body jump started. Dr. agrees and says lets do it this way. So his way was cold turkey off the androgel for 8 weeks, come in for more tests. Lo and behold, my body seems to be working as there are swimmers being made again, though on the low range of normal. So I bring up the other meds to help me out. He says he suggests HCG and Clomid. He has me go get blood work, and then prescribes HCG and Clomid.

Now, coming off the androgel sucked. and still sucks to this day. Fatigue, though not as bad as before I started HRT is around. Sex Drive. ZERO, Zilch, nada, completely asexual. Not even wood at any point of the day or night. Enough help from wife and it works, but it's hard when one could care less if she helps or not, or even if we have sex.

So now I sit here, and really wonder where these Dr's have put me, and have two new meds which I'm trying to figure out what really they are going to do, good or bad? Haven't taken them yet and seeing as I found this board and seems fairly active, I'd post up my last blood work results and see what anyone thinks. Unfortunately the BW is only test and FSH LH Est. Each time I get bw, I ask for them to do complete workups, but I guess I have to figure out how to fill out the Lab sheets for them.....grrrrrrrrrrr Anyways, last BW, everything was in "normal" range, except for Estrodial, which is way high.

Estrodial - 90.8 normal: non detectable - 56 median: 29.7
FSH - 3.71 normal: .7-11.1 median: 3.8
LH - 2.34 normal: .8-7.6 median: 2.4

Test - 426 normal: 249-836
Free Test - 10.3 normal: 8.1-25.1


So with those results, Dr. has sent over Clomid 25mg/day I believe (might be 3xweek it's not sitting in front of me)

and HCG just showed up today, and trying to figure it out....it says 10000iu (mix 1ml dilutant and inject .15 ml solution 3xWeek)


So anyone have any insight with the limited info I have? I basically just want to get back to feeling somewhat normal again, and let the rest fall into place. As I've read here and elsewhere, just getting tired of Dr's looking at a symptom and throwing half assed solutions to it. There has got to be a better way....
When consulting drs with this issue. I have suggested just do the clomid for people you low T not on HRT. For people on HRT you never pull them off because this destroys the quality of their life in the process. On the gels simply adding HCG 250 ius every 3 days will help revitalize the testicles over a period of may be a few weeks to a month. Again Dr's should tell you that when starting HRT there are these risk, but there are ways to minimize them when proper steps are taken. If this does not work then we move on to the next step. I always have the DR try this first then have a sperm count through a lab to check the vitality. When designing a good plan of attack you always have other options incase one does not work.
 

pilot14

New member
Awards
0
Thanks for the reply.....

When starting the Androgel, dr. really didn't explain alot of what the side effects or down side would be. And at the time, I was simply searching for a what was wrong. He started off with an in office shot, and did that twice, and boy when I saw the change, I was like definitely give me the stuff. I had done some research a few years ago, as to what could counteract what I was feeling then, and that's where the MRI and elevated prolactin came from. Discussed with that dr. about having the Androgel supplemented with something to counteract the downsides, and he said he preferred me to taper off and let body restart. I started tapering (8 months or so ago) then my wife's Fertility Dr. he had lab check the sperm, and there was 0. Told me to drop Androgel completely, and come back for another check. This time there were 2.5million or so, and his PA had passed along that, with those results we need to go straight into IVF. or something similar. Having had the discussion before with the Dr. regarding my Androgel use for years, he was the one that had stated lets see if body restarts, and how it does so, then we can hit it with the HCG and Clomid to give it a boost. Sooooo we sat down with Dr. after the IVF comment, and I was like WTH is going on here......Lets fix my body before we start doing all this other crap. So he pulled the blood and those are the results that came back.

Now, obviously the T isn't the best or highest, but at least I'm producing on my own, it's been 10-12 weeks since off the Androgel. My concern is the Very High Estrogen, will this calm down with the clomid and HCG? As I would really like to be back to having some form of libido, and get rid of the feeling of being a hunk of flesh that's just wandering the world........HA
 
The Matrix

The Matrix

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
Thanks for the reply.....

When starting the Androgel, dr. really didn't explain alot of what the side effects or down side would be. And at the time, I was simply searching for a what was wrong. He started off with an in office shot, and did that twice, and boy when I saw the change, I was like definitely give me the stuff. I had done some research a few years ago, as to what could counteract what I was feeling then, and that's where the MRI and elevated prolactin came from. Discussed with that dr. about having the Androgel supplemented with something to counteract the downsides, and he said he preferred me to taper off and let body restart. I started tapering (8 months or so ago) then my wife's Fertility Dr. he had lab check the sperm, and there was 0. Told me to drop Androgel completely, and come back for another check. This time there were 2.5million or so, and his PA had passed along that, with those results we need to go straight into IVF. or something similar. Having had the discussion before with the Dr. regarding my Androgel use for years, he was the one that had stated lets see if body restarts, and how it does so, then we can hit it with the HCG and Clomid to give it a boost. Sooooo we sat down with Dr. after the IVF comment, and I was like WTH is going on here......Lets fix my body before we start doing all this other crap. So he pulled the blood and those are the results that came back.

Now, obviously the T isn't the best or highest, but at least I'm producing on my own, it's been 10-12 weeks since off the Androgel. My concern is the Very High Estrogen, will this calm down with the clomid and HCG? As I would really like to be back to having some form of libido, and get rid of the feeling of being a hunk of flesh that's just wandering the world........HA
In order to get the best effect one needs to look at it from an integrative approach at all the system (immmune, neurological,endocrine,psychological) to see what imbalances may be present and how they interact together. One also has to look at hidden stressors (structural, biological, environmental, mental, lifestyle, nutrition) in order to how they can affect the systems. As you can see hormones are just one small piece of the puzzle which dr's tend to over look the larger picture. Need to find a dr who uses integrative approaches as I have mentioned in order to be the best therapeutic out come. I am slowly building up a net work of them, but it catch on slowly as more medical professionals are headed in that direction .
 

hitest

Member
Awards
0
Now, obviously the T isn't the best or highest, but at least I'm producing on my own, it's been 10-12 weeks since off the Androgel. My concern is the Very High Estrogen, will this calm down with the clomid and HCG? As I would really like to be back to having some form of libido, and get rid of the feeling of being a hunk of flesh that's just wandering the world........HA
The estrogen could certainly be killing your mojo. Questions have been raised about sensitive vs regular estrogen test accuracy. I'm inclined to believe your result because it is so high. Ideally you would take the Matrix approach to get to the root of the problem. This can take a while and there are no guarantees either. If you can't sort that out the fall back position might be to attack the estrogen directly.
 
bad rad

bad rad

Well-known member
Awards
2
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
Your estrogen levels are nearly twice the upper end of normal, that combined with lower endo test levels can zap libido. Hcg is probably at fault, it increases intra testicular estrogen production by increasing aromatase in the testes. This localized estrogen blunts the response causing lower test production, the easy answers are include low dosed anti-aromatase or drop the hcg. And of course talk to your Dr.
 

pilot14

New member
Awards
0
Your estrogen levels are nearly twice the upper end of normal, that combined with lower endo test levels can zap libido. Hcg is probably at fault, it increases intra testicular estrogen production by increasing aromatase in the testes. This localized estrogen blunts the response causing lower test production, the easy answers are include low dosed anti-aromatase or drop the hcg. And of course talk to your Dr.
Those blood levels were before taking any clomid or HCG. Still haven't taken HCG, due to being on the road for work.
 
bad rad

bad rad

Well-known member
Awards
2
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
Those blood levels were before taking any clomid or HCG. Still haven't taken HCG, due to being on the road for work.
That's really high estrogen, that's probably your issue. 2.5mg Letrozole once weekly has been shown to correct obesity induced hypogonadism caused by high estrogen. After six weeks all subjects were in normal range.
 
The Matrix

The Matrix

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
ai are not long term solution ..
 

getalpha

New member
Awards
0
No its not a longterm solution..... but Matrix you say it yourself.... look at the whole picture.

1. his wife is trying for a baby...

That is stressful enough, and the guy probably feels like **** because his junk aint working properly (been there)

2. Your estrogen is high, that needs correcting, an AI may be a temporary solution to help this and make you feel tons better.

My estrogen was sky high and I felt like absolute ass, and always tired from it.

I'm suprised the Dr ripped you off androgel without putting you on HCG and clomid restart immediately.

I dont know enough about HCG yet to give any suggestions on the dosing, but hopefully someone in here will soon.

You will most likely need something to control that E2 though, as HCG can increase it even further for most.

Based on the fact you already restarted with pretty good results IMHO without HCG and clomid.

Then no doubt you will get up in higher ranges of test just with that, and swimmers are already starting back.

I've seen people post good results on HCG of their swimmers coming up big time.

All the best of luck.
 

Brolz

New member
Awards
0
TRT Exit/Androgel PCT:

Unfortunately I never had bloods taken when I was feeling good, only right before they put me on Androgel, which happened to be 2 weeks after an 8 week Ostarine run, so I dont even know what my true baseline is. But I have faith in my BS supps and the fact that Androgel supposedly while suppressive should not have me totally shut down (will see results of sats LH FSH test). Whats messed up is that I think the LGD and Osta really shut me down (teste atrophy), and since Im on the TRT i dont know if my body will resume whatever natural production I had left while on TRT pre-sarms. My plan is:

Get bloodwork 7/25 9am (after 3 months of 4 pumps gel, and 2 weeks post 8 week LGD cycle) then immediately begin this as PCT:

Week 1:
Androgel taper (3 pumps days 1-4, 2 pumps days 5-7), Nolvadren XT (2caps AM), Humanofort-(100mg am, 100mg Noon, 100mg PM), HCGenerate (3 caps AM, 2 caps PM), Recycle (2 caps AM, 2 caps PM), DAA (3g AM), PowerFULL (2 caps PM), Organ Shield (2 caps PM), then all my usual maintenance crap ie. turmeric, fish oil, vitamin C, SuperCissus RX, Glucosamine MSM Chondroitin......

Weeks 2-4: Same except ZERO exogenous test

This covers a test taper, a few AI products, cortisol control, every researched test booster there is basically in proper dose, adaptogens for the natural transition....

Hoping this will be a gradual enough taper, plus give the other stuff a week to build up before I'm only running on my own juice. Even if It gets my nuts jump started to 50% capacity, that is a start! Hell I can get Clomid later if it doesnt work out, and if my gains (about 15lbs up and recomped between the test and the SARMS) diminish, **** it Ill get them right back with more LGD, gel, and clomid next time. I will also be getting bloodwork either in 1 or 2 months to assess the effectiveness of this protocol.

I will also attempt to eat a little bit more Paleo (diet stays pretty clean anyway) and try and lift for shorter duration sessions and less volume while I recover.
 

Brolz

New member
Awards
0
Trying to come off the gel after only 8 months. Thoughts? Im 29 years old, these are my original labs from when I first went to doc complaining of libido and fatigue issues. I lift often and hard. This lab happens to be about 2 weeks after the end of a cycle of Ostarine though so Im hoping my original low test may have been caused b this

Total test 263
Free test 80.5
Estradiol 25
Prolactin 11.2
LH 5.1 (1.5-9.3)
FSH 4.3 (1.6-8)
TSH 1.74 (0.4-4.5)
 

Similar threads


Top