30 years old, Low-T and not sure what to do...

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by ap0352 View Post
    MRI came back normal so she prescribed me 50mg of Clomiphene Citrate a day. She wants me to do this for 3 months and have my levels tested halfway through and at the end. If they are not within range at the end of 3 months, she said she will put me on TRT.
    We'll see how this works..
    Thoughts?
    You are going to fail miserable and cause down regulation to your LH with that much clomid. When dealing with medical dr's I find this is there biggest mistake. Dr I consulted with had a patient on 25 mgs ED, he was good till about 1.5 months in then it dropped off. The dr had no clue was it was not working and wanted to commence HRT. I suggest stop things for a few weeks and restart back at 12.5 mgs m,w,f. Then when I explained the down regulation of LH and the body being desensitize to its own LH then it made sense. After 3 month the guy was at 700 and Dr was amazed he was holding, I suggested dr to continue as is and recheck in another 3 months, 6 months later he was still in lower 800's. Mine you on 25 mgs clomid a day he was at 600 TT at 4 weeks in 8 weeks in he was down to low 300's. Mean We are still working on other areas to bring him back to balance with the chance of even getting off clomid in the near future..
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.


  2. So would you suggest that I follow that dosage? Just from that short conversation we had over the phone, I value your opinion much more than that of my endo's.
    Thanks for the info Matrix!
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by ap0352 View Post
    So would you suggest that I follow that dosage? Just from that short conversation we had over the phone, I value your opinion much more than that of my endo's.
    Thanks for the info Matrix!
    Here is what I suggest. I suggest you contact your Dr tell them what I suggested and the reason why. You can also mentioned I noted this about 3-4 years ago not knowing how true it was on meso. Pmgamer remembered me posting about it years ago. He would even vouche for me because his word is honorable. You can also note I have been using this under dr supervision for several months with the results I have been getting. Before going on clomid you also need to have other factors taken care of which can affect LH signaling at the cellular level. I have not met one medical professional who does in detail. Actually if you follow the current trends on the board people are starting notice how important these factors are. When you try to build a mansion and you have a crappy foundation when it is finish, what will happen? It will crumble to the ground. Same thing happens to majority guys on clomid when they come off because they do not have a foundation to come off on to. When consulting with Dr's guys who appear secondary on HRT who want to get off HRT, there is a 4 month process which they undergo to make sure all lights are green for a restart. Recommending a multivitamin is wonderful, but considering 90% out there are full of talc, worthless form of nutrients resulting in potential other health risk (another thread in itself). Usually when I am talking to a new Dr for the first time, they usually have the internet running in the background looking up everything I am saying. I am used to this so if people have open minded dr I have no problem dealing with them professional. If you run into me DR you patient well them you might as well better luck getting struck by lighting. It does not matter how wonderful everything sounds, you MUST NEVER SELF TREAT, even if the information is 100% sound, accurate and validated in a clinical setting.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.

  4. Been on clomid for about 2 months now. I haven't taken the prescribed dosage of 25mg twice daily. I've more of less taken about 25mg every 3rd day. I do feel much better but still don't feel like I'm where I should be.
    Saw my endo the other day. New blood results are:
    Test Total 326
    Test Free 8.4L * 2 different results here with 2 different ranges so I'm not sure how to read it..
    Test Free 66.6 *
    Test Bioavail 131.2
    Total Estrogens 51
    Sex Hormone Binding GI 18

    Compare that to my inital results of:
    Total T 284
    Total Free 5.2L
    Total Estrogens 55
    Albumin 4.3

    Improvement yes but nothing spectacular. She wants me to continue clomid at 25mg's twice a day for another 3 months with more blood work in between. I'm wondering if I should actually increase the dosage from what I'm currently taking and go with just 25mg a day. Scared to take 50 a day.

    Opinions?

  5. Quote Originally Posted by ap0352 View Post
    Been on clomid for about 2 months now. I haven't taken the prescribed dosage of 25mg twice daily. I've more of less taken about 25mg every 3rd day. I do feel much better but still don't feel like I'm where I should be.
    Saw my endo the other day. New blood results are:
    Test Total 326
    Test Free 8.4L * 2 different results here with 2 different ranges so I'm not sure how to read it..
    Test Free 66.6 *
    Test Bioavail 131.2
    Total Estrogens 51
    Sex Hormone Binding GI 18

    Compare that to my inital results of:
    Total T 284
    Total Free 5.2L
    Total Estrogens 55
    Albumin 4.3

    Improvement yes but nothing spectacular. She wants me to continue clomid at 25mg's twice a day for another 3 months with more blood work in between. I'm wondering if I should actually increase the dosage from what I'm currently taking and go with just 25mg a day. Scared to take 50 a day.

    Opinions?
    receptors are saturated more then what you are now would be counter productive. I would even cut the dosage back to 12.5 every other day then work on factors to support testosterone production such as getting the proper nutrients and examining thyroid and adrenal issue more indept. Many time working with people correcting a few things which work synergistically together will kick the body back into gear on its own. After 2 months if all ducks are not in a row T not rising one moves on to HRT till further exploration can be done. I will even suggest a dr if the symptoms are obvious to use HRT to make the person feel better in order for further investigation to be done. No one should suffer for months on end when no need to. 25 mgs 2 times a day for 2 months is ludicrous leading to more damage then good especially issues with sight which has occured in many many people from these recommendations of 50 mgs per day for 2 month periods
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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  6. Little bit more than 3 months now and I'm more confused than ever...
    After talking with my endo again, i started on 1/20 taking the actual prescribed dosage of 50 mgs a day, (I know Matrix, completely against what you told me)...sorry. She somehow convinced me that I needed that dosage.
    I still felt about the same until the beginning of Feb. I started feeling similar to what I did before treatment. Very lathargic and not much drive...
    Kept the dosage the same and ended up getting what I would consider the "vision" side-effect around the weekend of the 18th. I wouldn't say my vision was blurred but something was not right. I quit the treatment immediately after and side effects went away by the third day...
    Haven't had blood work since the last report so I may call my endo and explain whats going on...
    Trying to figure out if I should restart the clomid at the lower dosage Matrix recommended....

  7. Quote Originally Posted by ap0352 View Post
    Little bit more than 3 months now and I'm more confused than ever...
    After talking with my endo again, i started on 1/20 taking the actual prescribed dosage of 50 mgs a day, (I know Matrix, completely against what you told me)...sorry. She somehow convinced me that I needed that dosage.
    I still felt about the same until the beginning of Feb. I started feeling similar to what I did before treatment. Very lathargic and not much drive...
    Kept the dosage the same and ended up getting what I would consider the "vision" side-effect around the weekend of the 18th. I wouldn't say my vision was blurred but something was not right. I quit the treatment immediately after and side effects went away by the third day...
    Haven't had blood work since the last report so I may call my endo and explain whats going on...
    Trying to figure out if I should restart the clomid at the lower dosage Matrix recommended....
    All I am trying to do is educate you to make the right decision to discuss with your Dr. I do this on a daily basis with Dr's all the time. I am working with a lot of Dr's now and collaborating together has had profound impact. Sitting in on peoples appointment with Dr first time is intimidating or may be awkward to the Dr, but by the end of the appointment we are joking and sharing ideas. I actually have relationships now with Dr's in one of americas oldest healing centers where people come from around the world to be treating.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.

  8. Six months or so into it now and my latest total T came back 557. Endo said those results are awesome. I'd say much better but not "awesome".
    Now she wants me to get off the clomid and see if my body will maintain that level. Personally, I'd like my totals in the 650-750 range but I don't know if I'll ever see that even if I stay on clomid...
    Thoughts?

  9. Sorry I don't have any answers for you, but I am considering clomid myself. I know you're not all the way better, but how do you feel compared to before treatment? Especially interested in depression and libido related symptoms. Thanks.

    Oh, I almost forgot. If the cause of your low T is still unclear, you might want to check out if you have sleep apnea or a varicocele. According to studies I've read correcting these conditions can improve T significantly.

    Most doctors will say you have to be middle-aged and fat to have apnea but that is not true. I am 5'9" and 175 and I have apnea. That's only 7 lbs overweight based on bmi. And I'm 27.

    Unfortunately treating my apnea hasn't resolved my symptoms, but your mileage may vary. At least I'm not falling asleep everywhere uncontrollably anymore.
    Last edited by Mrmanguy84; 05-25-2012 at 07:26 PM. Reason: more info

  10. Quote Originally Posted by Mrmanguy84 View Post
    Sorry I don't have any answers for you, but I am considering clomid myself. I know you're not all the way better, but how do you feel compared to before treatment? Especially interested in depression and libido related symptoms. Thanks.

    Oh, I almost forgot. If the cause of your low T is still unclear, you might want to check out if you have sleep apnea or a varicocele. According to studies I've read correcting these conditions can improve T significantly.

    Most doctors will say you have to be middle-aged and fat to have apnea but that is not true. I am 5'9" and 175 and I have apnea. That's only 7 lbs overweight based on bmi. And I'm 27.

    Unfortunately treating my apnea hasn't resolved my symptoms, but your mileage may vary. At least I'm not falling asleep everywhere uncontrollably anymore.
    Before clomid you need take care off all the other issues which are out side of hormone other wise you are significantly decreasing your chances of success. I see it all the time from guys who have gone to the top HRT specialist when all they look at is the endocrine system never looking at the immune, neurological, lifestyle, psychological and now a huge component environmental factors. Once the other issues are identifed and addressed where they failed before they finally succeeded. Address the whole person not just 20-25% of the equation like typical medical professionals do. You want to get a huge return on your investment, but instead you are getting cheated..
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.

  11. Quote Originally Posted by ap0352 View Post
    Six months or so into it now and my latest total T came back 557. Endo said those results are awesome. I'd say much better but not "awesome".
    Now she wants me to get off the clomid and see if my body will maintain that level. Personally, I'd like my totals in the 650-750 range but I don't know if I'll ever see that even if I stay on clomid...
    Thoughts?
    Hate to burst your bubble but average T are between 400-700 levels provided all the other hormones, thyroid, gh issues are all in check.
    In your case I think its something out side hormones personally which is not being addressed. You are chasing the number scale. I have had Dr's reduce testosterone levels by some times a quarter of their dosages when other issues are properly addresss. They feel better less drugs less variables, and symptoms which TRT did not address started to clear up. Its not about more is better, but rather optimizing what you have from addressing the person as a whole and not just one system.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.

  12. Quote Originally Posted by Mrmanguy84 View Post
    Sorry I don't have any answers for you, but I am considering clomid myself. I know you're not all the way better, but how do you feel compared to before treatment? Especially interested in depression and libido related symptoms. Thanks.

    Oh, I almost forgot. If the cause of your low T is still unclear, you might want to check out if you have sleep apnea or a varicocele. According to studies I've read correcting these conditions can improve T significantly.

    Most doctors will say you have to be middle-aged and fat to have apnea but that is not true. I am 5'9" and 175 and I have apnea. That's only 7 lbs overweight based on bmi. And I'm 27.

    Unfortunately treating my apnea hasn't resolved my symptoms, but your mileage may vary. At least I'm not falling asleep everywhere uncontrollably anymore.
    I actually do feel much better! I guess I'll get off the clomid and see what happens..

  13. Any updates?

  14. Still taking the clomid. Wanted to wait until I run out. Been taking about 25mg every 4th day. Kind of scared to get off..
    I'll update once I do..

  15. How are you feeling in the libido department? Thanks for the update.

  16. Quote Originally Posted by Mrmanguy84 View Post
    How are you feeling in the libido department? Thanks for the update.
    I have been suggesting Dr that little bit of adex may be needed along with the clomid to help keep e2 in check which symptoms would be the determining factor along as using Labs as a diagnostic tool
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.

  17. I too am going through a Clomid restart. I was on 25mg day but felt crappy. I'm now on 12.5mg day, still feel a little tired but much better. I'm thinking of going to the 25mg every four day schedule.

    Are you still on 25mg E4D? Also, do you take it in the morning when you wake or at bedtime?

    Hope your doing well.

    Quote Originally Posted by ap0352 View Post
    Still taking the clomid. Wanted to wait until I run out. Been taking about 25mg every 4th day. Kind of scared to get off..
    I'll update once I do..

  18. I don't really have a set schedule. I usually just take it as soon as I remember about it that day..
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