TRT and DHEA stacked; yes or no???/

[Presa]

I'm on TRT using 100mg of Test Cypionate every five days to keep my T-level at 775+.

What would adding in 25-50mg of DHEA do? Good or bad idea? Benefits? Hazards? Opinions?

 

[DragonRider]

What would adding in 25-50mg of DHEA do? Good or bad idea? Benefits? Hazards? Opinions?

Generally speaking, for reasons no one seems to know, DHEA converts to testosterone in females and estrogen in males.

Unless you have blood tests showing you are low in DHEA, you probably shouldn't mess with anything that can affect your hormones.

 

[crazycrew]

Agree with DragonRider. Less is best when dealing with hormones. Each time you monipulate one it effects others.

 

[Whacked]

DHEA = MAYBE
Pregnenolone = MAYBE

Here's my spin..........

PS: I am also on TRT so the following insight/opinion from a shared perspective as well

Replacing endo test with exo test is not an apples to apples scenario in my opinion like so many subscribe to.

Think about this, you are still producing endo test to some degree (unless you were castrated? LOL). So, these pulses/signals have many feedback loop and compensatory reactions or/on MANY other hormonal processes.

Simply adding exo-test does not "fill in" these processes as you will be impacting your HPTA.

All of these "messages" are "countered/comnpensated for/offset" by other hormonal processes.

Messages are inevitably lost in this equation as YOU are now "controlling" the systems (by adding to/manipulating your test levels) whereas before, your body did.

Being parent hormones, capable of "filling in gaps where needed"; Pregnenolone has its place FOR SOME, as does DHEA.

The PROBLEM is once again, controlling unwanted reactions (conversions) into excessive estro, DHT, progesterone, test or others.

In cases when Test fails to make people feel "normal" or like they felt as young adults (or whenever T levels were optimal for that person), then perhaps DHEA and PREG can be of some help. As ironic as it sounds, some TRT patients get adverse effects from Exo-test like depression/moodiness/irritability, etc.

Contrary to popular opinion, not everyone feels like an Adonis/Alpha Male just b/c test was added.

Once the TEST (all forms, along with estro, DHT and prog) levels are checked and deemed to be appropriate for that individual, then substances like DHEA and PREG "can" fill in certain gaps where needed.

People need to remember that the body's endocrine system is UBER complicated and IMHO, it's epic failure to just "sprinkle in some TEST and pray for the best".

 

[HondaV65]

People need to remember that the body's endocrine system is UBER complicated and IMHO, it's epic failure to just "sprinkle in some TEST and pray for the best".

Which is why I don't use Test. Maybe one day - when I undertand it better and when I understand the HPTA bull**** better.

But ... I'm 49. I still respond to training and I think about sex so much - it's hard for me to concentrate on anything else. So my **** is still working. I do "pulse" Epi every now and again but it's mild and if I get any indications of shutdown - I can stop taking it and immediately begin HPTA recovery.

But ... one false move with test and you have to live out the effects until it's worn off. Then you have to deal with the restart.

For others - this might be fine - especially those experienced in doing this. But for me - not worth it.

 

[Whacked]

.....

PS: HOW EXACTLY do you "pulse" your EPI? I am thinking of doing the saame and it's been a long time since I've seen pulse-methods implemented

 

[The Matrix]

I'm on TRT using 100mg of Test Cypionate every five days to keep my T-level at 775+.

What would adding in 25-50mg of DHEA do? Good or bad idea? Benefits? Hazards? Opinions?

Check serums then go from there
If e2 is an issue I would leave it alone.
I am experimenting with TD magnesium which has been shown clincally to raise dhea-s levels. I have also seen the TD magneisum raise dhea-s in a few male drs patients by 200-300 points.

 

[bdcc]

Matrix, I assume TD Mg would only raise DHEA-s in those who are deficient in magnesium in the first place. Are you recording RBC magnesium levels to correlate it with DHEA-s?

Also, what form of transdermal magnesium are you using? I have tried sulfate and chloride. I would be interested to know your thoughts on anything differentiating the two. Everything I have heard on them is mostly subjective i.e., in terms of consistency and residue left on the skin.

 

[The Matrix]

Matrix, I assume TD Mg would only raise DHEA-s in those who are deficient in magnesium in the first place. Are you recording RBC magnesium levels to correlate it with DHEA-s?

Also, what form of transdermal magnesium are you using? I have tried sulfate and chloride. I would be interested to know your thoughts on anything differentiating the two. Everything I have heard on them is mostly subjective i.e., in terms of consistency and residue left on the skin.

I just did nutraeval and I am low in RBC in magnesium

RBC is still not a true reading, but i have metabolites which are also showing functional magnesium deficiency. 90% of americans are low on magnesium especailly people I have had tested. I have major malabsorption issues as well as indicated on tests. Working on them right now. The multivitamin I was taking only contained 200 mgs when I looked where my other one contained 500 mgs.. Plus taking high vitamin D will also cause it to deplete as well. average i recommend to people is 600-800 mgs a day of magnesium citrate.

 

[bdcc]

Would you expect DHEA-s and RBC Mg to correlate in terms of transdermal Mg raising DHEA-s levels?

The only people I know who supplement with transdermal magnesium are hard training athletes and are almost guaranteed to have low Mg levels to begin with.

Any reason you prefer citrate over other chelated forms, taurate, fumarate, glycinate, orotate etc?

 

[Gutterpump]

On the topic of DHEA - Does anyone have a good source for potent DHEA cream which can be purchased online or over-the-counter without rX?

The only good one I can find has additives that I could care less for (saw palmetto, etc).

 

[Gutterpump]

As ironic as it sounds, some TRT patients get adverse effects from Exo-test like depression/moodiness/irritability, etc.

This would only come from untreated estrogen related issues from the aromatization of test. Test + DHT are responsible for the opposite feelings, as long as E2 is balanced and in check.

 

[The Matrix]

Would you expect DHEA-s and RBC Mg to correlate in terms of transdermal Mg raising DHEA-s levels?

The only people I know who supplement with transdermal magnesium are hard training athletes and are almost guaranteed to have low Mg levels to begin with.

Any reason you prefer citrate over other chelated forms, taurate, fumarate, glycinate, orotate etc?

magneisum chelates depends on what they are deficient in that will determine what kind. It also depends on what symptoms they have which the chelate may help with.

Yes I am one of those people who trains hard.
190 lbs no belt or wraps squating 500 for 6-7 reps at end of workout. If i could just get this bloat in my stomach to go down thats the last piece of the puzzle then i will compete again..
So 200 mgs would not be enough.

I bought 8 bottles of dermacrine take one pump a day i am good for a few years

 

[chedapalooza]

taking high vitamin D will also cause it to deplete as well. average i recommend to people is 600-800 mgs a day of magnesium citrate.

I'm currently taking 3000-4000 iu of d3 daily and just picked up mag citrate tablets. I'm taking one 200mg tablet at bed each night. Should I increase that gradually to 600?

I train very hard and have for 8 years now consistently. I'm only 25 tho (in a week) but you may be familiar with me from prior PMs...

Off of all TRT now, had a successful restart with clomid. Really trying to keep things as natural and simple as possible now! So magnesium is very interesting to me. I've had this hunch that dhea may be playing a role in less than stellar energy, poor response to exercise, poor stress response, and loads of joint pains and inflammation.... Thoughts? Thanks.

 

[The Matrix]

I have done several years of nutritional on Doctors patients and clients. Magnesium citrate does not increase RBC levels of magnesium. My colleague Morley Robbins who is known as "magnesium man" has over 30 years in clinical research into magnesium. I use liposomal magnesium from another colleague DR Ben Lynch which has been shown to work just as effective as IV in some people. Depending on the absorption issue I ay use magnesium chloride foot baths to by pass the GI tract. It really depends on the case and current situation. Magnesium citrate is a laxative.