How to consistently keep levels around 1000 ng/dl?

[TylerDurden7]

Does anyone have any ideas? Daily application of a cream would help achieve the most stable levels I'm assuming. However I am wary of switching from injections to creams/gels as Im afraid it just wont work. I have bf around 8% with very vascular forearms. If I applied a gel to this area would it be absorbed effectively? I am currently on 150 mg test cyp per week but levels are coming in the 500's by the 7th day post inject. I would much rather see quadruple digits there. Any help or ideas are greatly appreciated. Thanks!

 

[MakaveliThaDon]

so....you wanna cruise at 1000ng? I don't know about that one buddy. Maybe increase to 200mg a week, or 150 every 5 days and see if you can cruise at closer to 700-800. No doctor is gonna let you cruise at 1000ng

 

[TylerDurden7]

That could work. I actually have tried 200mg per week and liked it alot, but the doc cut it back when he saw my levels in the 1000's.

 

[DragonRider]

You are getting way too caught up in numbers. More is not better when it comes to testosterone.
There are probably more males carrying better than average muscular whose testosterone tops out in the 500's than males who top out in the 1000's.
Normal testosterone levels follow a ciradian rhythm on a 24 hour basis where one wouldn't normally carry their max level for more than a few hours per day, not to mention a week.

 

[HondaV65]

Pat Arnold has a thread in the E-pharm section about how TestForce 2 increased the levels in a natural bodybuilder. Apparently the guy was competing - and regularly. Anyway - dude's Test was less than 200.

He was low - but must have still been able to build muscle and compete. You have the hormonal side of things - but you also have the muscular response side. If you don't have that then higher levels of test won't help much.

 

[The Matrix]

Pat Arnold has a thread in the E-pharm section about how TestForce 2 increased the levels in a natural bodybuilder. Apparently the guy was competing - and regularly. Anyway - dude's Test was less than 200.

He was low - but must have still been able to build muscle and compete. You have the hormonal side of things - but you also have the muscular response side. If you don't have that then higher levels of test won't help much.

after dealing with close to 1000 or more males the average testosterone is between 400-650. <1% of male population has testosterone >700.
If they do they are taking something to boost it.
Your e2, shbg, thyroid and other hormones have to be incheck to feel good at these levels. If you have to be at 1000 to feel good then need to have other evaluation to see where the imbalance is. Too many people play the number game resulting in causing imbalance in adrenals and thyroid. I have seen it happen many times..

 

[TylerDurden7]

I think you're right Matrix. The more I think about it, the more it seems its just in my head that I need to be that high. Thank you

 

[The Matrix]

After dealing with some many clients and drs patients it is hard to get them to understand this. More testosterone is not the answer making optimizing what you have by examing other factors out of balance is the proper solution. When I start digging into peoples biochemistry that is when the truth really starts revealing it self as they can not lie about what they are doing because the results are right there infront of me..

 

[airvine91]

after dealing with close to 1000 or more males the average testosterone is between 400-650. <1% of male population has testosterone >700.
If they do they are taking something to boost it.
Your e2, shbg, thyroid and other hormones have to be incheck to feel good at these levels. If you have to be at 1000 to feel good then need to have other evaluation to see where the imbalance is. Too many people play the number game resulting in causing imbalance in adrenals and thyroid. I have seen it happen many times..

How does too high test impact the adrenals/thryoid? How would this apply to a bodybuilder always on or someone on high levels of replacement therapy (200mg/week)?

 

[The Matrix]

How does too high test impact the adrenals/thryoid? How would this apply to a bodybuilder always on or someone on high levels of replacement therapy (200mg/week)?

Most if not all bodybuilder are in a constAnt state of adrenal imbalance. People on 200 mgs per week hrt I have found to have higher chances of altered thyroid function as well as lower adrenal out put due to offsetting ones natural homeostasis. You are also risking greater chances of estrogen ,prostrate and other issues with higher then biological set point testosterone levels. Also starting to see a number of increaes in clotting issues with dr patients on hrt because the dr and these clinics are not checking proper blood work.

 

[MakaveliThaDon]

Most if not all bodybuilder are in a constAnt state of adrenal imbalance. People on 200 mgs per week hrt I have found to have higher chances of altered thyroid function as well as lower adrenal out put due to offsetting ones natural homeostasis. You are also risking greater chances of estrogen ,prostrate and other issues with higher then biological set point testosterone levels. Also starting to see a number of increaes in clotting issues with dr patients on hrt because the dr and these clinics are not checking proper blood work.

how "for real" is the RBC issue with people on trt? I see some guys like to give blood every 6 months to a year or so keep it in check. Is that a good practice, or is that kind of blown out of proportion?

 

[The Matrix]

how "for real" is the RBC issue with people on trt? I see some guys like to give blood every 6 months to a year or so keep it in check. Is that a good practice, or is that kind of blown out of proportion?

I believe in less is more when it comes to HRT.
I have seen a higher rate of abnormal gene in clotting factors starting to pop up as well. So if you have pre existing clotting issue you are unaware then you are only putting your self at risk for the quest for optimal levels. There is a point to where stupidity meets science.

 

[MakaveliThaDon]

Speaking of consistently high levels. Something I've been wondering, why do some guys feel the need to permanently keep themselves at an extremely high level? I'm not saying it's bad or anything. I haven't taken the trt plunge yet (it's a big decision in my eyes) so I'm obviously not an expert here, I'm just curious. Does it start to lose its effectiveness over time, or does the feeling start to wear off or something? I mean if you kept your level at like 3000 for years on end, and obviously are training and eating the way your supposed to, i would think you would look like an absolute god. But as far as a therapeutic dose goes, do you really get more out of being at 3000 than at 800-900?

 

[The Matrix]

Speaking of consistently high levels. Something I've been wondering, why do some guys feel the need to permanently keep themselves at an extremely high level? I'm not saying it's bad or anything. I haven't taken the trt plunge yet (it's a big decision in my eyes) so I'm obviously not an expert here, I'm just curious. Does it start to lose its effectiveness over time, or does the feeling start to wear off or something? I mean if you kept your level at like 3000 for years on end, and obviously are training and eating the way your supposed to, i would think you would look like an absolute god. But as far as a therapeutic dose goes, do you really get more out of being at 3000 than at 800-900?

Yep a higher risk of wet under wear from swollen prostrate, being a whinny bitach, thyroid conditions, adrenal imbalances, increased CVD, cardiac hypertrophy. I know of pro BB on 30 grams of test a week. This is why I tend to want to look at the root causes of things rather then just crap against the wall to see what sticks. I just did a guy who had fat malabsorption issues which was not allowing him to make hormones. He is currently on TRT and did not feel it was right for him from the start. After starting to do further testing I found him having liver issues with processing fats which was verified by specialized testing as well as alot of his symptoms he was experiencing. We are starting the healing process then when he is ready mentally and I feel his body is ready. A restart will be tried along with my self and under supervision of his dr. This pattern is becoming more and more evident in my findings. Question is that how many people are prematurely put on TRT. After interviewing alot of younger guys on TRT, the dr never asked if they had a cold, or what they where going through at the time. The biggest one I see is death of a loved one as a huge issue impacting the HPTA. Usually with in the first 10-15 minutes of the consultatation cause is isolated and rest is just the cascade effect. I refer to what I help people is "damage control" from majority the person himself or incompetent Dr's. If dr's would take time to actually care and ask simple questions alot of unnecessary meds and medical cost could be avoided (some dr do care, but they are hard to find). Average dr visit is 15 minutes to see an endo. Thats not enough time to even fart for god sake. The Dr is more out then in. The clients I deal with average 1-1.5 hours more of an integrated approach. The main principle is look at the main cause. You have low hormones levels but WHY, what caused them ? TRT in many young guys is 80% of bandaid effect. I can not tell you how many young guys who have been on TRT and are now off because taking the time to look for the cause

 

[DragonRider]

I mean if you kept your level at like 3000 for years on end, and obviously are training and eating the way your supposed to, i would think you would look like an absolute god. But as far as a therapeutic dose goes, do you really get more out of being at 3000 than at 800-900?

You would think so, but these forums are full of people who are taking supraphysiological amounts of steroids and copying the diets and workouts of the gifted males who are able to make progess this way, yet they themselves can't even put 10lbs on their bench press.
Some males seem to develop androgen resistance from supraphysiological doses of androgens. As a matter of fact, have you noticed that many of the so called experts on these boards never post pictures? That is because many of them even after years of steroid use don't weigh over 185lbs and have never got close to a 20 inch arm.
My observations over the 50 plus years of my life and 35 years of working out tell me that those who respond best to steroids are those who respond to strength training naturally. The guys who are benching twice what we could back in high school, for example.
I myself have been able to use 1000mg a week of test plus 600mg a week of deca or EQ for 6 to 12 month cycles and seen very little in the way of increased strength or muscle.

 

[MakaveliThaDon]

You would think so, but these forums are full of people who are taking supraphysiological amounts of steroids and copying the diets and workouts of the gifted males who are able to make progess this way, yet they themselves can't even put 10lbs on their bench press.
Some males seem to develop androgen resistance from supraphysiological doses of androgens. As a matter of fact, have you noticed that many of the so called experts on these boards never post pictures? That is because many of them even after years of steroid use don't weigh over 185lbs and have never got close to a 20 inch arm.
My observations over the 50 plus years of my life and 35 years of working out tell me that those who respond best to steroids are those who respond to strength training naturally. The guys who are benching twice what we could back in high school, for example.
I myself have been able to use 1000mg a week of test plus 600mg a week of deca or EQ for 6 to 12 month cycles and seen very little in the way of increased strength or muscle.

....yah, in high school I benched TWICE what I can now too, lol.

 

[The Matrix]

I am walking example what trt and being off steroids can do if you understand ones body

I'm in better shape then 90% of 18-20 and 99.9 % my age group 35-40 range , but I chose to life this healthy lifestyle for long haul. When people see me in the gym they are always asking me what drugs I am taking. I just smile once you learn your body and know how to train you do not need drugs. Once I get my digestion settled I plan on doing npc show drug free and will place in top 3. I went to junior nationals drug free 8 months and was heavier then I was on.

Still rep 315 on bench 8-10 times press pauses
squat no wraps or belt 405 for 10-15 parallel
stiff legg dead 550 for 6

Not bad for 190lbs and 38
2002 last time I touched gear

 

[DragonRider]

I am walking example what trt and being off steroids can do if you understand ones body

I'm in better shape then 90% of 18-20 and 99.9 % my age group 35-40 range , but I chose to life this healthy lifestyle for long haul. When people see me in the gym they are always asking me what drugs I am taking. I just smile once you learn your body and know how to train you do not need drugs. Once I get my digestion settled I plan on doing npc show drug free and will place in top 3. I went to junior nationals drug free 8 months and was heavier then I was on.

Still rep 315 on bench 8-10 times press pauses
squat no wraps or belt 405 for 10-15 parallel
stiff legg dead 550 for 6

Not bad for 190lbs and 38
2002 last time I touched gear

Good point and I was going to suggest that Makaveli ask you what your testosterone level was? I think I read somewhere you were in the 400 to 500's.

 

[MakaveliThaDon]

Good point and I was going to suggest that Makaveli ask you what your testosterone level was? I think I read somewhere you were in the 400 to 500's.

329 the first time I tested, doc told me to cut back on so much physical activity for a few weeks and retest....so I obliged and it came back at 277

 

[The Matrix]

Good point and I was going to suggest that Makaveli ask you what your testosterone level was? I think I read somewhere you were in the 400 to 500's.

475 and was a best, my body was able to use it effectively and since adrenals and thyroid was optimal I was able to function like a best.

Now on TRT I am in 900- due to higher shbg which I am addressing by healing the gut and taken care of other issues. Currently using danazol now 50 mgs a day to help bring e2 into check. (normal people need 25 mgs) due to my malabsorption I need double the amount to get same effect.

i have used danazol in people with high shbg over 6 months peroid to reset shbg levels when tapered off, as well as addressing the their gut issues.

 

[The Matrix]

329 the first time I tested, doc told me to cut back on so much physical activity for a few weeks and retest....so I obliged and it came back at 277

You just need some fine tuning and probably be fine. Dr told me my pituitary was alseep and would take time to wake up. I was like WTF..After experimenting with eating and other things testosterone went from 120 to 400, but do to underlying adrenal issues from hidden infection it came right back down as digestion got worse. I would have to analyze the whole case to know where to even start, but most likely you have a high probability of avoiding hrt. If this is handled properly. 3 weeks and 2 test later I usually have those answers for Dr's patients or my clients.

 

[MakaveliThaDon]

You just need some fine tuning and probably be fine. Dr told me my pituitary was alseep and would take time to wake up. I was like WTF..After experimenting with eating and other things testosterone went from 120 to 400, but do to underlying adrenal issues from hidden infection it came right back down as digestion got worse. I would have to analyze the whole case to know where to even start, but most likely you have a high probability of avoiding hrt. If this is handled properly. 3 weeks and 2 test later I usually have those answers for Dr's patients or my clients.

who says I wanna avoid trt? No but seriously I'm just trying to learn absolutely as much as I possibly can before diving into ANYTHING.